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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 10, 2023 15:42:24 GMT
I do fear that by the time Southgate steps down our time will have passed.
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Post by lordb on Sept 10, 2023 15:47:20 GMT
He’s far from Pulis mate 😊 I ebb and glow in regards him tbh but to say the football is dire is a different thing altogether ….as recent results have shown But we rarely play anyone decent and when we do we invariably fall short. The line up yesterday, and the way he utilised his better players, was embarrassing, Two decent tournaments have been in spite of him, not because of him. How? Pure luck? Perhaps we bribed the opposition? You can't have it both ways, you can criticise where mistakes made but surely you have to credit where warranted Otherwise that's just blind prejudice Fact is Southgate is the best England manager since Ramsey and that's from a starting point of being humbled by Iceland in Euro 2016 Check out the endless predictions that we wouldn't get out of the group in 2018,that we couldn't beat Germany in the next Euros and so on I was at the game last night, it was crap I guarantee you every England manager between now and the end of time will have crap matches
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 10, 2023 15:49:30 GMT
Southgate is indefensible.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 10, 2023 15:52:17 GMT
He’s a serial loser.
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Sept 10, 2023 16:08:22 GMT
Not bad. Anymore ? How long has he been the manager ? France in the World Cup Spain away a few years ago I’m not actually defending him I’m just saying the football isn’t dire We lost against France, probably didn't deserve to lose. Spain away, freak result just like the 5-1 win in Germany. My point is, he is a 1 trick pony, doesn't know how to manage a game, cannot inspire the team to perform how they do at club level and when he does get a decent result it's in spite of him. Any quality coach would have this team winning things, I am convinced of that.
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Post by pavel on Sept 10, 2023 16:58:25 GMT
I’ve always found Southgate too cautious but his record in the last 2 tournaments can’t really be argued with, small margins which admittedly under a more positive manager may have gone our way.
The team against Ukraine was unfathonable though, Maguire, Henderson, really. Both past their best, one in Saudi, one hardly playing and against Southgate’s mantra that players will only be picked on merit and when they are playing regularly for their club.
I fear for Southgate, it might be one tournament too many for him and if it goes pear shaped he going too get some almighty stick.
We have some great players at the moment and it would be sad to see another generation of talent fall short. Nothing is given, of course, but I think we could do better under a more adventurous and progressive manager.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Sept 10, 2023 19:01:17 GMT
It has been poor but I believe the condition of the surface is atrocious. It’s got more patch marks than the pitches at dimensions, the amount of bobbles causing poor first touches is shocking. We have looked slow but I think the set up is completely wrong for a team looking to sit in. Very Stokelike actually. Nearly 700 passes at 92% completions is hardly poor. Toothless yes, poor no Not sure I can win Got argued against for saying the surface wasn't good and that contributed to the issues, then get argued against that we weren't poor anyway? It was completely toothless and when you're playing against a team who sit back, that is the definition of poor...
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Post by onepara on Sept 10, 2023 19:54:40 GMT
You'll never get the Manager that you want. The selectors have always, over the years more often than not, taken a cautious approach. Someone who's no trouble to them, & who's happy not to lose. That's why Brian
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Post by onepara on Sept 10, 2023 19:55:27 GMT
(oops) Clough was never given the job.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Sept 10, 2023 21:20:42 GMT
I do fear that by the time Southgate steps down our time will have passed. 14 months? Dig that sand out.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 10, 2023 21:34:55 GMT
I do fear that by the time Southgate steps down our time will have passed. 14 months? Dig that sand out. Absolutely. Hopefully not but that length of time is a long time in nogger
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 21:41:47 GMT
I do fear that by the time Southgate steps down our time will have passed. No. This time next year there will be a new England manager. The stars will still be very young.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 10, 2023 21:42:58 GMT
I do fear that by the time Southgate steps down our time will have passed. No. This time next year there will be a new England manager. The stars will still be very young. Hope you’re right Joe, just have a bad feeling. It’s engrained in us Stoke supporters
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 21:45:09 GMT
No. This time next year there will be a new England manager. The stars will still be very young. Hope you’re right Joe, just have a bad feeling. It’s engrained in us Stoke supporters Well, the notion Southo isn't the right one to get the most from the current talent will be put to the test.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 10, 2023 21:51:04 GMT
And that performance is why England will never win anything under Southgate For the sake of argument, if he left the job tomorrow, how many elite clubs would be in for him? I can't imagine many fans would be clamouring for him either. I'd be surprised if a Prem team came in for him, or at least a decent one anyway.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Sept 10, 2023 22:26:31 GMT
14 months? Dig that sand out. Absolutely. Hopefully not but that length of time is a long time in nogger Pickford (29) James (23) Stones (29) Maguire (30) Chilwell (26) Rice (24) Bellingham (20) Foden (23) Saka (22) Kane (30) Rashford (25) Seriously? 🤣
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 10, 2023 23:35:17 GMT
Absolutely. Hopefully not but that length of time is a long time in nogger Pickford (29) James (23) Stones (29) Maguire (30) Chilwell (26) Rice (24) Bellingham (20) Foden (23) Saka (22) Kane (30) Rashford (25) Seriously? 🤣 Before Southgate took over the following players were picked for the Euros by Hodgson Ryan Bertrand 25 Nathaniel Clyne 26 Danny Rose 25 Chris Smalling 24 Dele Alli 20 Ross Barkley 22 Eric Dier 22 Jack Wlishire 24 Daniel Sturridge 26 I’m saying he has had the players he has at their peak and it won’t last much longer
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 11, 2023 0:02:47 GMT
And that performance is why England will never win anything under Southgate For the sake of argument, if he left the job tomorrow, how many elite clubs would be in for him? I can't imagine many fans would be clamouring for him either. I'd be surprised if a Prem team came in for him, or at least a decent one anyway. I guess it depends how you define 'decent'? Palace, Wolves, Fulham etc. would all be interested I'd wager.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 11, 2023 0:08:53 GMT
Pickford (29) James (23) Stones (29) Maguire (30) Chilwell (26) Rice (24) Bellingham (20) Foden (23) Saka (22) Kane (30) Rashford (25) Seriously? 🤣 Before Southgate took over the following players were picked for the Euros by Hodgson Ryan Bertrand 25 Nathaniel Clyne 26 Danny Rose 25 Chris Smalling 24 Dele Alli 20 Ross Barkley 22 Eric Dier 22 Jack Wlishire 24 Daniel Sturridge 26 I’m saying he has had the players he has at their peak and it won’t last much longer Wow that's scary when you look at it like that! It might not be the best of metrics to measure by but is there an international side in the world that would command a higher set of combined transfer fees at club level, than the England team? I suspect not. Anybody suggesting that Southgate doesn't currently have the best current players in the world at his disposal, needs to give their head a wobble.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 11, 2023 2:29:50 GMT
Before Southgate took over the following players were picked for the Euros by Hodgson Ryan Bertrand 25 Nathaniel Clyne 26 Danny Rose 25 Chris Smalling 24 Dele Alli 20 Ross Barkley 22 Eric Dier 22 Jack Wlishire 24 Daniel Sturridge 26 I’m saying he has had the players he has at their peak and it won’t last much longer Wow that's scary when you look at it like that! It might not be the best of metrics to measure by but is there an international side in the world that would command a higher set of combined transfer fees at club level, than the England team? I suspect not. Anybody suggesting that Southgate doesn't currently have the best current players in the world at his disposal, needs to give their head a wobble. At this point France are the best side in Europe with us second best. One of Southo's best things is how he's created a harmonious squad. There's surely some egos around but they understand their role in the set up and that might mean not starting. It also means self sacrifice for the good of the team. Different things are expected and required at international level. If the brilliant players we've got can perform as a unit we've got every chance of having a very good tournament.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 11, 2023 5:51:15 GMT
The FA are happy with never winning or they would not put up with a second rate manager like Southgate It's a problem in English sport, not just football. The rugby union side are also obsessed with appointing managers who play conservatively
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Post by thevoid on Sept 11, 2023 5:53:39 GMT
I'd be surprised if a Prem team came in for him, or at least a decent one anyway. I guess it depends how you define 'decent'? Palace, Wolves, Fulham etc. would all be interested I'd wager. And there's the rub. None of those clubs are expected to challenge for trophies (and one he used to play for). Now imagine if he and Deschamps stood down on the same day, I'd imagine there would be a completely different standard of club after his services.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 11, 2023 5:58:13 GMT
But that negative mindset has cost England in previous competitions. If Southgate would have gone more attacking-based in the Euros final we would have won. Unfortunately, England have a manager who is too scared to lose instead of being too brave to win. Croatia was on him but Italy wasn't. He was too late making subs against aging Italian legs. When he did, we finally caused them some problems. He's always left it late reading the game and making substitutions
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 11, 2023 5:58:53 GMT
I guess it depends how you define 'decent'? Palace, Wolves, Fulham etc. would all be interested I'd wager. And there's the rub. None of those clubs are expected to challenge for trophies (and one he used to play for). Now imagine if he and Deschamps stood down on the same day, I'd imagine there would be a completely different standard of club after his services. Southo has got closer to trophies than anyone since you know when.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 11, 2023 6:01:53 GMT
And that performance is why England will never win anything under Southgate You can't judge international managers on that alone though. Certainly not an England one Why not? This is the best group of players we've had in years, and one of the best in Europe. Do you think the French in 1998-2000 should have just thought 'sod it, we've only won the Euros in 1984, let's not try and do better'?
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Post by campbellsleftpeg on Sept 11, 2023 6:02:01 GMT
They also arent brazil. 2 DMs is criminal against ukraine with no recognised AM. Awful management If 2 dms move with each other there's nowt wrong with it at all. Turgid negative crap!! Rice bellingham foden Its a no brainer
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 11, 2023 6:22:48 GMT
If 2 dms move with each other there's nowt wrong with it at all. Turgid negative crap!! Rice bellingham foden Its a no brainer What can get overlooked is there's another team on the pitch. In the case of Saturday, Ukraine have been hugely underrated. And if two dms interchange and understand when to support the forwards, and work it out between them, it can be fine.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 11, 2023 6:29:40 GMT
You can't judge international managers on that alone though. Certainly not an England one Why not? This is the best group of players we've had in years, and one of the best in Europe. Do you think the French in 1998-2000 should have just thought 'sod it, we've only won the Euros in 1984, let's not try and do better'? No. England do have a different approach with Southo. Mainly the mood within the squad and increased camaraderie. The reason we're doing better these days is because the players want to be there. In the past they looked like they were facing a bloody firing squad. Qatar was the rarity of a blameless exit. We got at France as much we could and could have beaten them. Even L'Equipe acknowledged England had been the better team. If we can get to Germany on the front foot and our young uns in roles that suit them we have every chance of having a good tournament.
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Post by Waggy on Sept 11, 2023 6:33:23 GMT
He should have left after the last world cup. That is when the FA should have realised to push on to the next level we need the next step up. Southgate main quality is realising from his time at England the disharmony amongst players in the squads. That was the downfall of management with players like Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes etc. So credit there and maybe that’s what we needed at the time but now we have to keep the harmony and push on to the next level. Hope he proves me wrong in Euro 24.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Sept 11, 2023 6:35:07 GMT
Was always gonna be a draw - surprised we stopped short of a Ukraine win to sock it to Putin....
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