|
France
Jun 30, 2023 14:48:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by swampmongrel on Jun 30, 2023 14:48:53 GMT
Sure there was a thread a while back but can’t seem to find it.
Is rioting the summer sport there or what?
They’d be better off focusing on the pétanque if you ask me.
Je ne sais pas!
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 11:39:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 1, 2023 11:39:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Jul 1, 2023 11:43:13 GMT
I've got so much respect for the French. They take to the streets about anything and everything. If we had half their mentality, the government here wouldn't take the piss as half as much as they do.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 11:48:44 GMT
I've got so much respect for the French. They take to the streets about anything and everything. If we had half their mentality, the government here wouldn't take the piss as half as much as they do. Too right.......
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 11:50:05 GMT
Post by knype on Jul 1, 2023 11:50:05 GMT
Is it the French people rioting?
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2023 11:55:55 GMT
I guess riotings Ok providing it’s not your home or business that’s being set alight or looted or your car that’s been totally destroyed. Unless you’ve been directly affected by rioting it’s easy to be fully in favour of it till you come out one morning and find your brand new cars burnt to a crisp.
Nothing wrong with protest but there’s a whole big difference between that and the mindless destroying of peoples lives.
The sad thing is that I’m pretty sure those saying how wonderful it is live nowhere near the areas where it’s happening.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Jul 1, 2023 12:00:52 GMT
What happened initially was horrific and both police should be charged. Of course there's endemic racism in France just as there is in many European countries, including ours, but what we're seeing now is mindless vandalism on a massive scale. And, as usual, it's not directed at the government and it's subsidiaries but at ordinary people and their property and businesses. We all know the French easily take to the streets but this is something different. This is anarchy.
OS.
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2023 12:04:56 GMT
What happened initially was horrific and both police should be charged. Of course there's endemic racism in France just as there is in many European countries, including ours, but what we're seeing now is mindless vandalism on a massive scale. And, as usual, it's not directed at the government and it's subsidiaries but at ordinary people and their property and businesses. We all know the French easily take to the streets but this is something different. This is anarchy. OS. Well said.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 12:54:13 GMT
Is it the French people rioting? Spit it out, come on now…….
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 13:02:01 GMT
Post by knype on Jul 1, 2023 13:02:01 GMT
Is it the French people rioting? Spit it out, come on now……. Genuine question...
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 13:09:12 GMT
What happened initially was horrific and both police should be charged. Of course there's endemic racism in France just as there is in many European countries, including ours, but what we're seeing now is mindless vandalism on a massive scale. And, as usual, it's not directed at the government and it's subsidiaries but at ordinary people and their property and businesses. We all know the French easily take to the streets but this is something different. This is anarchy. OS. Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example…….
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 13:13:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by knype on Jul 1, 2023 13:13:35 GMT
What happened initially was horrific and both police should be charged. Of course there's endemic racism in France just as there is in many European countries, including ours, but what we're seeing now is mindless vandalism on a massive scale. And, as usual, it's not directed at the government and it's subsidiaries but at ordinary people and their property and businesses. We all know the French easily take to the streets but this is something different. This is anarchy. OS. Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example……. So you don't condone it but...
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 13:19:07 GMT
Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example……. So you don't condone it but... I don’t condone looting or the destruction of small independent businesses and people being attacked indiscriminately no, why would I? But if you think the establishment bow down to peaceful non-violent process and that chaos doesn’t sometimes lead to change you need to buy a history book……
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Jul 1, 2023 13:23:58 GMT
Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example……. So you don't condone it but... I don’t think there’s any suggestion of his condoning it. Simply that it’s not surprising. Put it a different way. How surprising might you find it if there were disorder in SoT in response to routine and systematic police discrimination directed at people with an ST postcode?
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Jul 1, 2023 13:31:51 GMT
Is it the French people rioting? I've seen some footage and it doesn't appear to be cats.
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 13:35:28 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 1, 2023 13:35:28 GMT
Is it the French people rioting? Spit it out, come on now…….
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2023 13:35:29 GMT
What happened initially was horrific and both police should be charged. Of course there's endemic racism in France just as there is in many European countries, including ours, but what we're seeing now is mindless vandalism on a massive scale. And, as usual, it's not directed at the government and it's subsidiaries but at ordinary people and their property and businesses. We all know the French easily take to the streets but this is something different. This is anarchy. OS. Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example……. Maybe so but I still have plenty of family in the potteries and have lived and worked in London too. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in poverty but there’s plenty of it just a couple of miles down the road (it’s pockets granted) and I work with a lot of families who have very little and not one of them has mentioned wanting to riot. I can accept the anger that people have around certain issues a lot of it’s justified. What I don’t accept is why someone would want to set fire to your neighbours cars, loot from the shops you use on a daily basis often ran by locals that have been part of the area for years and wrecking the homes of innocent people all in the means of protest. There actions certainly won’t be hurting the people they want too. I’m sure the government couldn’t give 2 hoots for the “victim” of an arson or criminal damage or who’s had their small business destroyed. What I‘ve always wanted to know is what those looting or setting fire to things think they’re going to achieve other than losing a lot of respect from the public as I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Do you think those rioting should be dealt with criminally?
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 13:43:55 GMT
Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example……. Maybe so but I still have plenty of family in the potteries and have lived and worked in London too. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in poverty but there’s plenty of it just a couple of miles down the road (it’s pockets granted) and I work with a lot of families who have very little and not one of them has mentioned wanting to riot. I can accept the anger that people have around certain issues a lot of it’s justified. What I don’t accept is why someone would want to set fire to your neighbours cars, loot from the shops you use on a daily basis often ran by locals that have been part of the area for years and wrecking the homes of innocent people all in the means of protest. There actions certainly won’t be hurting the people they want too. I’m sure the government couldn’t give 2 hoots for the “victim” of an arson or criminal damage or who’s had their small business destroyed. What I‘ve always wanted to know is what those looting or setting fire to things think they’re going to achieve other than losing a lot of respect from the public as I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Do you think those rioting should be dealt with criminally? If you break the law you run the risk of being punished. Although punished should mean arrested and charged not shot in the back or getting the shit kicked in you by half a dozen coppers down an alleyway. The Suffragettes broke the law, those involved in Ghandi's Salt March, South Africa's Day of Protest, the Berlin Wall protests all broke the law. The Poll Tax rioters broke the law what do you think they should have done as an alternative and do you think Thatcher's government would have listened?
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 13:53:56 GMT
via mobile
knype likes this
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2023 13:53:56 GMT
Maybe so but I still have plenty of family in the potteries and have lived and worked in London too. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in poverty but there’s plenty of it just a couple of miles down the road (it’s pockets granted) and I work with a lot of families who have very little and not one of them has mentioned wanting to riot. I can accept the anger that people have around certain issues a lot of it’s justified. What I don’t accept is why someone would want to set fire to your neighbours cars, loot from the shops you use on a daily basis often ran by locals that have been part of the area for years and wrecking the homes of innocent people all in the means of protest. There actions certainly won’t be hurting the people they want too. I’m sure the government couldn’t give 2 hoots for the “victim” of an arson or criminal damage or who’s had their small business destroyed. What I‘ve always wanted to know is what those looting or setting fire to things think they’re going to achieve other than losing a lot of respect from the public as I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Do you think those rioting should be dealt with criminally? If you break the law you run the risk of being punished. Although punished should mean arrested and charged not shot in the back or getting the shit kicked in you by half a dozen coppers down an alleyway. The Suffragettes broke the law, those involved in Ghandi's Salt March, South Africa's Day of Protest, the Berlin Wall protests all broke the law. The Poll Tax rioters broke the law what do you think they should have done as an alternative and do you think Thatcher's government would have listened? I think you’re living in the past times have changed. Social media is now the most powerful way to protest. Just for context when was the last time that someone “got the shit kicked out of them by half a dozen coppers in an alleyway.” I’m not disputing it happened in the 70s by the way.
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 13:56:03 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 13:56:03 GMT
If you break the law you run the risk of being punished. Although punished should mean arrested and charged not shot in the back or getting the shit kicked in you by half a dozen coppers down an alleyway. The Suffragettes broke the law, those involved in Ghandi's Salt March, South Africa's Day of Protest, the Berlin Wall protests all broke the law. The Poll Tax rioters broke the law what do you think they should have done as an alternative and do you think Thatcher's government would have listened? I think you’re living in the past times have changed. Social media is now the most powerful way to protest. Just for context when was the last time that someone “got the shit kicked out of them by half a dozen coppers in an alleyway.” I’m not disputing it happened in the 70s by the way. How exactly is social media the more powerful way to protest?
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Jul 1, 2023 14:21:41 GMT
Racism in Colonist Countries like France and England is complex
Culturally and through previously taught History accepting Citizens of Colonies are now equals requiresa a shift in thinking. Many people are unable or unwilling to make that adjustment
When that racist thinking permeates within the people entrusted to uphold the rule of law I.e. The Police as it does in France and England then the consequences are predictable
Knype questioned if it were French people rioting, only he can decide why he asked that. It is often overlooked that Algeria was part of EEC until 1976 I.e. at same time as UK. This is because France treated Algeria as much more than a Colony but integrated into the Frech Republic. So Algeria was the first Country to Brexit or Alexit if you like.
Colonisation in its early days brings wealth to Countries but when Colonisation ends it brings obligations that many who didn't benefit from Colonisation resent.
Incongruously many "New Citizens" I.e. sons/daughters of Immigrants of former Colonies become some of the fiercest Racists themselves In France we have Eric Zemmour who came 4th in last Presidential Election behind Macron and Le Pen. Although both his Parents were from Algeria he has been prosecuted for his Right Wing Rhetoric against Immigrants and Islam. In England we have similar Politicians, I don't need to name them.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 1, 2023 14:29:14 GMT
Systemic racism in the police force, political and social issues galore means that people reach the end of their tether. I don’t condone violence and destruction of property for the sake of it, but I’m not sure anyone will be surprise by it? Yes it’s easy to have sympathy with the plight of these people when it’s not your property being damaged, but on the flip side it’s perhaps difficult to have a true understanding of how disenfranchised these people are whilst sat in leafy Surrey for example……. Maybe so but I still have plenty of family in the potteries and have lived and worked in London too. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in poverty but there’s plenty of it just a couple of miles down the road (it’s pockets granted) and I work with a lot of families who have very little and not one of them has mentioned wanting to riot. I can accept the anger that people have around certain issues a lot of it’s justified. What I don’t accept is why someone would want to set fire to your neighbours cars, loot from the shops you use on a daily basis often ran by locals that have been part of the area for years and wrecking the homes of innocent people all in the means of protest. There actions certainly won’t be hurting the people they want too. I’m sure the government couldn’t give 2 hoots for the “victim” of an arson or criminal damage or who’s had their small business destroyed. What I‘ve always wanted to know is what those looting or setting fire to things think they’re going to achieve other than losing a lot of respect from the public as I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Do you think those rioting should be dealt with criminally? I lived in Bixton (the very centre, just off Coldharbour Lane) in my late teens, when the second Brixton riots took place. One Saturday afternoon I was drinking in my local with some mates and the landlord said to us, sorry lads that's your last pint, I'm closing up now and proceeded to start boarding up his windows. When we went outside and there was a line of vans and removal trucks, all down my street. I spoke to one of the neighbours to see what was going on and they said that an innocent woman had been shot dead by the police (this turned out to be true) and that sporadic rioting was breaking out all over town. I went upstairs to my first floor flat, opened the huge Victorian sash window in my living room and literally sat and watched the riots take off in broad daylight. However, a part of it was clearly premeditated, or at the very least, people had quickly prepared themselves to take ADVANTAGE of what was happening. Literally within an hour of the riots starting, there were vans being loaded up with various TV's and other electrical goods, Currys took a right hammering, as did many other shops. Bus stops were set on fire, cars set alight, pitched battles were taking place with the police but at exactly the same time, organised looting was taking place on an industrial scale. If the woman hadn't been shot, then I suspect the riots wouldn't have started but without question, there were a great number of people on the streets for 48 hours, not interested in protesting but were solely there to loot as much property as they could.
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 14:33:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by lordb on Jul 1, 2023 14:33:30 GMT
Spit it out, come on now……. Genuine question... No it's a bunch of Swiss on holiday
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 14:34:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by maninasuitcase on Jul 1, 2023 14:34:49 GMT
Never was a song more appropriate.
Tomorrow you're homeless Tonight and is a blast
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 14:37:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 1, 2023 14:37:35 GMT
Spit it out, come on now……. Genuine question... Why, who else do you think it might be?
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 15:07:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2023 15:07:47 GMT
Maybe so but I still have plenty of family in the potteries and have lived and worked in London too. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in poverty but there’s plenty of it just a couple of miles down the road (it’s pockets granted) and I work with a lot of families who have very little and not one of them has mentioned wanting to riot. I can accept the anger that people have around certain issues a lot of it’s justified. What I don’t accept is why someone would want to set fire to your neighbours cars, loot from the shops you use on a daily basis often ran by locals that have been part of the area for years and wrecking the homes of innocent people all in the means of protest. There actions certainly won’t be hurting the people they want too. I’m sure the government couldn’t give 2 hoots for the “victim” of an arson or criminal damage or who’s had their small business destroyed. What I‘ve always wanted to know is what those looting or setting fire to things think they’re going to achieve other than losing a lot of respect from the public as I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Do you think those rioting should be dealt with criminally? I lived in Bixton (the very centre, just off Coldharbour Lane) in my late teens, when the second Brixton riots took place. One Saturday afternoon I was drinking in my local with some mates and the landlord said to us, sorry lads that's your last pint, I'm closing up now and proceeded to start boarding up his windows. When we went outside and there was a line of vans and removal trucks, all down my street. I spoke to one of the neighbours to see what was going on and they said that an innocent woman had been shot dead by the police (this turned out to be true) and that sporadic rioting was breaking out all over town. I went upstairs to my first floor flat, opened the huge Victorian sash window in my living room and literally sat and watched the riots take off in broad daylight. However, a part of it was clearly premeditated, or at the very least, people had quickly prepared themselves to take ADVANTAGE of what was happening. Literally within an hour of the riots starting, there were vans being loaded up with various TV's and other electrical goods, Currys took a right hammering, as did many other shops. Bus stops were set on fire, cars set alight, pitched battles were taking place with the police but at exactly the same time, organised looting was taking place on an industrial scale. If the woman hadn't been shot, then I suspect the riots wouldn't have started but without question, there were a great number of people on the streets for 48 hours, not interested in protesting but were solely there to loot as much property as they could. You’re a braver man than I Paul living in Coldharbour Lane. Dated a girl there once. Not the nicest place. Is this the incident you’re talking about? Couldn’t find another one. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28248588.amp
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2023 15:32:12 GMT
I think you’re living in the past times have changed. Social media is now the most powerful way to protest. Just for context when was the last time that someone “got the shit kicked out of them by half a dozen coppers in an alleyway.” I’m not disputing it happened in the 70s by the way. How exactly is social media the more powerful way to protest? Because more people read it and take note of it. You only have to see the impact Linekers comment had to see that. It got people thinking and acting but in a peaceful way. Much that I don’t like it I’d rather that than your chosen option below
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 16:01:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 16:01:50 GMT
How exactly is social media the more powerful way to protest? Because more people read it and take note of it. You only have to see the impact Linekers comment had to see that. It got people thinking and acting but in a peaceful way. Much that I don’t like it I’d rather that than your chosen option below Gary Lineker’s tweet changes and subsequent spat with the BBC changed absolutely nothing, the goverment have just plodded on regardless. And I don’t recall my “chosen method” involving firearms do you?
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 16:03:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 1, 2023 16:03:47 GMT
I lived in Bixton (the very centre, just off Coldharbour Lane) in my late teens, when the second Brixton riots took place. One Saturday afternoon I was drinking in my local with some mates and the landlord said to us, sorry lads that's your last pint, I'm closing up now and proceeded to start boarding up his windows. When we went outside and there was a line of vans and removal trucks, all down my street. I spoke to one of the neighbours to see what was going on and they said that an innocent woman had been shot dead by the police (this turned out to be true) and that sporadic rioting was breaking out all over town. I went upstairs to my first floor flat, opened the huge Victorian sash window in my living room and literally sat and watched the riots take off in broad daylight. However, a part of it was clearly premeditated, or at the very least, people had quickly prepared themselves to take ADVANTAGE of what was happening. Literally within an hour of the riots starting, there were vans being loaded up with various TV's and other electrical goods, Currys took a right hammering, as did many other shops. Bus stops were set on fire, cars set alight, pitched battles were taking place with the police but at exactly the same time, organised looting was taking place on an industrial scale. If the woman hadn't been shot, then I suspect the riots wouldn't have started but without question, there were a great number of people on the streets for 48 hours, not interested in protesting but were solely there to loot as much property as they could. You’re a braver man than I Paul living in Coldharbour Lane. Dated a girl there once. Not the nicest place. Is this the incident you’re talking about? Couldn’t find another one. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28248588.ampYep
|
|
|
France
Jul 1, 2023 16:07:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by yeswilko on Jul 1, 2023 16:07:54 GMT
How exactly is social media the more powerful way to protest? Because more people read it and take note of it. You only have to see the impact Linekers comment had to see that. It got people thinking and acting but in a peaceful way. Much that I don’t like it I’d rather that than your chosen option below He literally said he doesn't agree with looting and people being attacked and now you're saying it's his "chosen option".
|
|