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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 10:24:53 GMT
They need to employ a team of proper football people, to run the club professionally. Spend some time at a well-run PL club, and see what they do. They must have contacts. They'll have the contacts and the money to bring in whoever they want. They'll also have algorithms and data from Bet365 to be able to put a model together that could piss all over the Brighton's and the Brentford's of this world from a great height. Why they don't and haven't is down to them and either their ambition or more likely, nous and sheer drive and determination to make it happen...or lack of it.All it will take is two people. One forward thinking football director that knows modern football inside out at the top level and a top level data cruncher that can work with the football man and create a proper model. The rest slots in after it naturally. They must have access to the very best of the best data crunchers already which just leaves the football man... I would say their issue is that they want to be the ones who do it all. They need their name in lights and their face on the 'forever grateful' flag. In my opinion, it's either a great way to assuage guilt and build PR considering their business, or they're just chasing the feeling of being the heroes of a city. Either way, it's a horrible, lazy, and incredibly inefficient way to run a football club. I'd much rather have poor owners who would run it intelligently than rich ones who hope their money will be enough.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 9, 2023 10:46:42 GMT
Fuck it, let's get the oil money.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on May 9, 2023 10:55:56 GMT
How many fans/supporters would shed a tear if they said (the Coates family) we have had enough we have decided to sell the club. Not many I would say judging by the mood & the last few years of complete crap we have all put up with.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 9, 2023 11:19:57 GMT
They need to employ a team of proper football people, to run the club professionally. Spend some time at a well-run PL club, and see what they do. They must have contacts. They'll have the contacts and the money to bring in whoever they want. They'll also have algorithms and data from Bet365 to be able to put a model together that could piss all over the Brighton's and the Brentford's of this world from a great height. Why they don't and haven't is down to them and either their ambition or more likely, nous and sheer drive and determination to make it happen...or lack of it. All it will take is two people. One forward thinking football director that knows modern football inside out at the top level and a top level data cruncher that can work with the football man and create a proper model. The rest slots in after it naturally. They must have access to the very best of the best data crunchers already which just leaves the football man... Benham at Brentford made his money in professional gambling, providing tips and insights to high level clients to literally beat bookmakers like Bet365. Brentford also own all their recruitment and statistical data through a proprietary company, not bought in from 3rd party sources such as Opta like others clubs do. So he’s literally got rich taking advantage of how companies like bet365 operate. bet365 are successful because they are incredibly accessible as a betting company because they harnessed the internet faster and better than anyone around, based on people I know who have worked there the setting of odds and whatnot is done in a fairly traditional way because they have a level of clientele betting poorly who will always turn a profit and there’s no real need go get too fancy when you can reach theoretically every home in the country. I honestly don’t even think it’s a money issue, Benham could compensate anybody as well as the Coates can now with the PL money, and the attraction at working with such a smart man and a forward thinking organisation would far exceed a lower-midtable championship club stuck in 2007. Bloom at Brighton is similar, he’s made his money betting against the house and winning too. On every level, they’re smarter than the Coates family and probably made a fair chunk of their own wealth exploiting the inefficiencies of companies like bet365.
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Post by crowey on May 9, 2023 11:32:20 GMT
…. just a thought. I seem to remember when we were in n the Prem we were told by the owners that we needed to be “self-sustaining” through the Academy etc. This was at a time when we needed “large investment” (at least) to keep us there. Did Denise simply turn off the tap?
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Post by wakefieldstokie on May 9, 2023 11:40:04 GMT
Yea theres so many better owners queuing up to buy SCFC. Our owners are pretty good all things considered. Obviously the managers have been shite for a few years, but on balance there are definitely much worse owners out there. Plus, why would anyone want a football club? Might as well give your money away.
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Post by redstriper on May 9, 2023 11:51:27 GMT
How many fans/supporters would shed a tear if they said (the Coates family) we have had enough we have decided to sell the club. Not many I would say judging by the mood & the last few years of complete crap we have all put up with. be careful what you wish for. I'd be gutted personally if they left. You prefer an unknown foreign investor with dodgy motives, no football background and no connection with either the club or the town ? The leagues are littered with "big money" ownership failures, guys who are never seen at the grounds and are massively unpopular. Man Utd anyone ?
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Post by theonlooker on May 9, 2023 12:02:59 GMT
They'll have the contacts and the money to bring in whoever they want. They'll also have algorithms and data from Bet365 to be able to put a model together that could piss all over the Brighton's and the Brentford's of this world from a great height. Why they don't and haven't is down to them and either their ambition or more likely, nous and sheer drive and determination to make it happen...or lack of it. All it will take is two people. One forward thinking football director that knows modern football inside out at the top level and a top level data cruncher that can work with the football man and create a proper model. The rest slots in after it naturally. They must have access to the very best of the best data crunchers already which just leaves the football man... Benham at Brentford made his money in professional gambling, providing tips and insights to high level clients to literally beat bookmakers like Bet365. Brentford also own all their recruitment and statistical data through a proprietary company, not bought in from 3rd party sources such as Opta like others clubs do. So he’s literally got rich taking advantage of how companies like bet365 operate. bet365 are successful because they are incredibly accessible as a betting company because they harnessed the internet faster and better than anyone around, based on people I know who have worked there the setting of odds and whatnot is done in a fairly traditional way because they have a level of clientele betting poorly who will always turn a profit and there’s no real need go get too fancy when you can reach theoretically every home in the country. I honestly don’t even think it’s a money issue, Benham could compensate anybody as well as the Coates can now with the PL money, and the attraction at working with such a smart man and a forward thinking organisation would far exceed a lower-midtable championship club stuck in 2007. Bloom at Brighton is similar, he’s made his money betting against the house and winning too. On every level, they’re smarter than the Coates family and probably made a fair chunk of their own wealth exploiting the inefficiencies of companies like bet365. Wow, that changes everything. Thick with and without money? COATES OUT! 😉
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on May 9, 2023 12:12:29 GMT
We are lucky to have our owners
They just need to place their trust in competent people, the next few months will tell us if they've managed that this time.
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Post by jokker on May 9, 2023 12:29:23 GMT
We don't need new owners, but perhaps the way is run needs a look at, for me the manager has too much control I'd prefer a more continental approach with a DoF and head coach where eac member of staff can concerntrate on their own role and we can look for experts in each fields as opposed to what we have now I'd like that very much. But the old school managers we employ don't want to work with a DoF. I think Jones was so raw that we might have sneaked in one if he'd otherwise been good (while no one has the title at Luton, as far as I know but I could easily be wrong, there were a number of people who were quasi doing positions that had the character of a DoF. Harford was one (he might have been head coach or am, but he also was superviser to a degree, as was Hart) . But all the others - apart from O'Neill who might eventually have wanted to be kicked upstairs into such a role with a nobody as chief coach - have put their foot down whenever the suggestion was made in interviews. We obviously don't know what discussions might have taken place on the board's Monday lunches. But we know the result: no can do.
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Post by questionable on May 9, 2023 12:33:02 GMT
How many fans/supporters would shed a tear if they said (the Coates family) we have had enough we have decided to sell the club. Not many I would say judging by the mood & the last few years of complete crap we have all put up with. But, but, but there’s free away travel and frozen ST’s prices.....
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Post by jokker on May 9, 2023 12:35:11 GMT
That’s just not relevant though. In the here and now they are terrible and have been for many years. I dont disagree, they have been or should I say the son has, he defo needs someone to guide him if the Old man aint up to it, but I do think we will rise like a phoenix next year. We'd have to burn down first, before we can rise like a phoenix.
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Post by thevoid on May 9, 2023 13:20:07 GMT
Not sure how you've reached that conclusion as Bradford currently inhabit a division we've never played in The point I was making was we could end up doing a Bradford without the family, Bradford where in the prem league a few years back and slid down the leagues, perhaps Charlton would suit you better seen has your not picking Well we've been in Charlton's current position more than once under the Coates Family so it's hardly untrodden territory. A better couple of questions are why couldn't we have been more like Burnley following relegation, and is our narrow minded obsession with cookie cutter British managers holding us back?
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Post by thevoid on May 9, 2023 13:25:24 GMT
How many fans/supporters would shed a tear if they said (the Coates family) we have had enough we have decided to sell the club. Not many I would say judging by the mood & the last few years of complete crap we have all put up with. But, but, but there’s free away travel and frozen ST’s prices..... Frozen ticket prices for the last seven years is the least they can do given the fare on offer
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Post by spitthedog on May 9, 2023 13:47:12 GMT
Is Chris Kirchner still looking for a club?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 9, 2023 13:47:31 GMT
The point I was making was we could end up doing a Bradford without the family, Bradford where in the prem league a few years back and slid down the leagues, perhaps Charlton would suit you better seen has your not picking Well we've been in Charlton's current position more than once under the Coates Family so it's hardly untrodden territory. A better couple of questions are why couldn't we have been more like Burnley following relegation, and is our narrow minded obsession with cookie cutter British managers holding us back? I think the British manager aspect is a symptom for sure, but I think the core reason for the malaise is they still believe giving managers carte blanche to literally change everything about a club is the big problem. Every manager coming in has had to basically strip out what the previous manager put it in. Be it the squad, be it the recruitment staff, medical staff etc. I'm annoyed as anyone that just outright refuse to entertain the notion of a FORRIN running the place but I think if they just installed one for the sake of it, nothing meaningful would happen anyway. Not sacking MON in March, allowing him to buy in players for a specific system, play all pre-season in that system and then to sack him before the end of August was genuinely insane and I have no actual logical explanation for it.
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jm
Academy Starlet
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Post by jm on May 9, 2023 13:52:16 GMT
Cant blame the owners for inconsistent performances on the pitch. Take the current owners away and the club will free fall in no time
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 9, 2023 14:20:14 GMT
If the Coates family were to walk away it would spell the end of our club as a credible Premier league proposition (IMHO) - I look at Wigan and see how they've managed since Whelan exited - I know there are BIG differences between us & the Latics but the money and the emotional investment are critical for clubs such as ours. There are a dozen or more attractive clubs to any external investor and we are not attractive in any shape or form - smallish catchment area, mediocre stadium, highly unfashionable and poor legacy record of winning stuff etc etc......
They are however guilty of appointing some very poor "Professionals" from the boardroom down since the demise of Hughes and have never brought in anyone who can navigate us through the demands of the modern game that has changed out of all recognition this past decade or so, both on the field and as importantly, off it.
So lets stop the daft calls for the family to relinquish ownership as there will be no-one else barring dodgy money-laundering charlatans looking to asset strip or otherwise exploit us - and hope that they can bring in some pretty canny & ruthless individuals that know the business and have some sort of track record of maximising potential.......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2023 14:28:30 GMT
Cant blame the owners for inconsistent performances on the pitch. Take the current owners away and the club will free fall in no time Why can't you, sorry? Has someone else overseen the decline? Has someone else been appointing the managers who've signed the players?
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Post by PotterLog on May 9, 2023 14:30:21 GMT
They'll have the contacts and the money to bring in whoever they want. They'll also have algorithms and data from Bet365 to be able to put a model together that could piss all over the Brighton's and the Brentford's of this world from a great height. Why they don't and haven't is down to them and either their ambition or more likely, nous and sheer drive and determination to make it happen...or lack of it.All it will take is two people. One forward thinking football director that knows modern football inside out at the top level and a top level data cruncher that can work with the football man and create a proper model. The rest slots in after it naturally. They must have access to the very best of the best data crunchers already which just leaves the football man... I would say their issue is that they want to be the ones who do it all. They need their name in lights and their face on the 'forever grateful' flag. In my opinion, it's either a great way to assuage guilt and build PR considering their business, or they're just chasing the feeling of being the heroes of a city. Either way, it's a horrible, lazy, and incredibly inefficient way to run a football club. I'd much rather have poor owners who would run it intelligently than rich ones who hope their money will be enough. They may want to do it all themselves but I don't think there's much evidence to suggest they want their name in lights. They generally shy away from publicity and John in particular clearly can't stand the limelight, just look at the panel events they do, he's awkward and hates the focus being on him. He's said as much himself. I think they want the best for the club, guard it closely and are very wary of external influences (or handing it over) because it's their baby and they value its close links with the area and the community. Which is all very laudible, I'm grateful to have them in many ways and I'd be sad to see them go, but in the modern game they're not competent, and if they're not willing/able to recognise that, take a back seat and employ people to modernise the operational side of things, we don't have much choice.
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Post by PotterLog on May 9, 2023 14:34:28 GMT
If the Coates family were to walk away it would spell the end of our club as a credible Premier league proposition (IMHO) - I look at Wigan and see how they've managed since Whelan exited - I know there are BIG differences between us & the Latics but the money and the emotional investment are critical for clubs such as ours. There are a dozen or more attractive clubs to any external investor and we are not attractive in any shape or form - smallish catchment area, mediocre stadium, highly unfashionable and poor legacy record of winning stuff etc etc...... They are however guilty of appointing some very poor "Professionals" from the boardroom down since the demise of Hughes and have never brought in anyone who can navigate us through the demands of the modern game that has changed out of all recognition this past decade or so, both on the field and as importantly, off it. So lets stop the daft calls for the family to relinquish ownership as there will be no-one else barring dodgy money-laundering charlatans looking to asset strip or otherwise exploit us - and hope that they can bring in some pretty canny & ruthless individuals that know the business and have some sort of track record of maximising potential....... Brighton? Brentford? Luton? Bournemouth? Wolves? Leicester? Palace?
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jm
Academy Starlet
Posts: 188
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Post by jm on May 9, 2023 14:42:20 GMT
Cant blame the owners for inconsistent performances on the pitch. Take the current owners away and the club will free fall in no time Why can't you, sorry? Has someone else overseen the decline? Has someone else been appointing the managers who've signed the players? and how many of those managers were you unhappy with from day 1 when appointed
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2023 15:02:53 GMT
Why can't you, sorry? Has someone else overseen the decline? Has someone else been appointing the managers who've signed the players? and how many of those managers were you unhappy with from day 1 when appointed Well Rowett for starters, but that isn't the point, is it? They've all failed. They were all rightly sacked, but at least a couple of them have gone on to succeed elsewhere. A big part of the problem is the lack of joined up thinking above them, and appointing wildly different managers who are stuck with squads that don't fit how they want to play. We're still running the club like it's 2008 while others pass us by.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 9, 2023 15:13:49 GMT
You can literally lift up the "let's hope they can get the right personnel in" comments from any thread on this topic from the last 6 years.
It's not just about personnel, it's about environment and objectives. Coates can't even give a definitive answer on where he wants us to finish, always some vague assertion such as "compete for the playoffs" or to "rebuild our image". The environment they give managers (bearing in mind the average tenure of an EFL champ manager is about a year) is great in terms of allowing them freedom and making them feel great. But absolutely awful for the long term future of the club. The systems Neil is putting in place now will take about 2-3 years to dismantle if he gets the chop or goes for another job.
You can count on one hand the number of correct footballing decisions they've made in what is now becoming closer to a decade than not's amount of time. So you can hope they can get the right people in, but all the evidence points to the contrary and the persistence of this purgatory we are in.
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Post by Pugsley on May 9, 2023 15:17:22 GMT
We are lucky to have our owners They just need to place their trust in competent people, the next few months will tell us if they've managed that this time. Managed or get lucky? They've appointed a bang average manager who has appointed his mate as the technical director. Lazy, arrogant, complacent are a few words that spring to my mind.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 15:22:56 GMT
I would say their issue is that they want to be the ones who do it all. They need their name in lights and their face on the 'forever grateful' flag. In my opinion, it's either a great way to assuage guilt and build PR considering their business, or they're just chasing the feeling of being the heroes of a city. Either way, it's a horrible, lazy, and incredibly inefficient way to run a football club. I'd much rather have poor owners who would run it intelligently than rich ones who hope their money will be enough. They may want to do it all themselves but I don't think there's much evidence to suggest they want their name in lights. They generally shy away from publicity and John in particular clearly can't stand the limelight, just look at the panel events they do, he's awkward and hates the focus being on him. He's said as much himself. I think they want the best for the club, guard it closely and are very wary of external influences (or handing it over) because it's their baby and they value its close links with the area and the community. Which is all very laudible, I'm grateful to have them in many ways and I'd be sad to see them go, but in the modern game they're not competent, and if they're not willing/able to recognise that, take a back seat and employ people to modernise the operational side of things, we don't have much choice. Possibly but I'd say there's a difference between being lauded as heroes and doing public events. I'm guessing of course, but I think he'd hate the focus less if we weren't so shit. I also don't think I've seen many chairmen do a live fan Q&A at all, so he can't hate it that much. They definitely target their reputation in the city, whether it's for business PR or because guilt, I've no idea. If they do think the club is their baby then they're more arrogant than I thought. They're at most custodians, and they should treat it as such. This is my issue with the family as a whole, they're very keen to be the main characters of a city that should be so much more than just a Wild West company town for some gambling moguls. It's never seemed to be about putting the city on the map, it's always seemed to be 'The Coates Family are great owners', 'The Coates Family pay their required amount of tax' or 'The Coates Family give some money to charity'. That's not even going into the specifics of what they actually do give, and what their business causes in the community. I've strayed into my dislike of their business a bit too much there, but it all ties together in the club for me. Run incredibly inefficiently, promising lots, delivering surface PR that looks nice but massively under-delivering for their wealth.
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Post by staffordstokiemad1 on May 9, 2023 15:24:44 GMT
I think we all need to calm down and log off until August, the hysteria on here is unbelievable. I see this as a fresh start, I think we will have a very competitive squad next season.
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Post by Pugsley on May 9, 2023 15:26:14 GMT
I think we all need to calm down and log off until August, the hysteria on here is unbelievable. I see this as a fresh start, I think we will have a very competitive squad next season. Fresh start doing the same shit.... We live in hope
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Post by Glory Hunter on May 9, 2023 15:28:31 GMT
But, but, but there’s free away travel and frozen ST’s prices..... Frozen ticket prices for the last seven years is the least they can do given the fare on offer Season ticket prices have been frozen for 16 years, not 7.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 15:38:46 GMT
This made me smile.
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