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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 2, 2023 22:24:59 GMT
Absolutely they'd be entitled to present a defence. Where have I questioned that? Well he's effectively been found not guilty so you don't need question anything really But that's a lie. He hasn't been found "not guilty" at all has he. The charges have been dropped after "the withdrawal of key witnesses" and "the case is under continuous review". Clearly we know the case won't be under continuous review but that's not the point.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 2, 2023 22:26:51 GMT
On talent alone they’d take him back.
But he seems like a very flayed character and Ten Haag takes no shit.
So it’ll be interesting to see what he does.
If they decide to bin him then he has Castle written all over him.
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Post by logdog on Feb 2, 2023 22:27:09 GMT
It's 2023 yet we are still living in an age where a guy can pay a victim millions to escape jail. What about the welfare of other females he might encounter in the future? All the video and audio evidence points to this guy being a violent rapist. Convince me otherwise. Perhaps they'd ought to think who they're getting involved with. It's not like he's roamed the streets attacking random victims. It would be a bit like the woman who took up with Giggs then lost the plot because he was unfaithful. Why do some blokes jump to the conclusion that because it's a female she's an innocent victim. Do you have a daughter? Would you we be saying “she ought to have thought who she was getting involved with” if she was the female in this situation?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2023 22:27:32 GMT
For reasons not totally clear that’s not happening though, I’m not judge and jury. I don’t have to like the guy but he either tries to earn a living (he may not have that luxury still) or what sits at home for the rest of his life? Why are the reasons not clear. The victim refuses to give evidence against him because they have resumed their relationship and a victimless prosecution is not in the public interest. See Caroline Flack, when society's need for retribution was considered paramount to the wishes of the injured party. Are/were Mason Greenwood Ryan Giggs or Caroline Flack a danger to the general public? Reasons unclear in the sense that I haven’t had chance to look at the full details of the story I meant sorry…….
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Post by willieeetmiout on Feb 2, 2023 22:28:52 GMT
Well he's effectively been found not guilty so you don't need question anything really But that's a lie. He hasn't been found "not guilty" at all has he. The charges have been dropped after "the withdrawal of key witnesses" and "the case is under continuous review". Clearly we know the case won't be under continuous review but that's not the point. See my previous post. You can't just drop a case at the CC.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 2, 2023 22:29:10 GMT
If I'd seen the footage of the bloke shooting someone he'd still be entitled to present a defence and mitigation but not in your court. Absolutely they'd be entitled to present a defence. Where have I questioned that? You've convicted on the basis of partial evidence. You're being dramatic as you've just accused someone else of being by insinuating there is a risk to women in general. It's fairly clear that someone being involved in an abusive relationship is not a risk to the wider public. The matter has been publicised just like Giggsy's previous philandering so the vast majority of females will have been forewarned of the possibilities should they choose to become involved with him. You want the state to pursue a victimless procecution to satisfy your inner need for retribution nothing to do with public safety. Mason Greenwood isn't up the town beating and raping random women, Ryan Giggs isn't up there kicking the shit out of them and Caroline Flack is definitely not up there hitting random blokes on the head with lamps
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2023 22:32:25 GMT
Why should DPD staff be subjected to Greenwood but not his Man Utd team mates, he’s either entitled to get his life back on track or he’s not? That’s true. Didn’t think about that. Have you read the transcript of the Ched Evans case by the way? Not a rapist but an absolute wrong ‘un. I wouldn’t want either him nor Greenwood anywhere near a daughter of mine……
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 2, 2023 22:34:02 GMT
Perhaps they'd ought to think who they're getting involved with. It's not like he's roamed the streets attacking random victims. It would be a bit like the woman who took up with Giggs then lost the plot because he was unfaithful. Why do some blokes jump to the conclusion that because it's a female she's an innocent victim. Do you have a daughter? Would you we be saying “she ought to have thought who she was getting involved with” if she was the female in this situation? It was always a matter of time till the "she provoked him" or "she should think about who she goes out with" brigade were in town. There is literally no justification (unless in self defense) for physically assaulting or raping a woman. Many hundreds of thousands of men in the UK apparently disagree - I think they are disgusting. Let's also not forget that 750,000 men reported abuse in 2020 - Not good.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 2, 2023 22:34:10 GMT
That’s true. Didn’t think about that. Have you read the transcript of the Ched Evans case by the way? Not a rapist but an absolute wrong ‘un. I wouldn’t want either him nor Greenwood anywhere near a daughter of mine…… Transcript? Was the Ched Evans incident recorded?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 2, 2023 22:34:28 GMT
That’s true. Didn’t think about that. Have you read the transcript of the Ched Evans case by the way? Not a rapist but an absolute wrong ‘un. I wouldn’t want either him nor Greenwood anywhere near a daughter of mine…… No, but I’ll have shufty tomorrow 👍🏻
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 2, 2023 22:39:56 GMT
Perhaps they'd ought to think who they're getting involved with. It's not like he's roamed the streets attacking random victims. It would be a bit like the woman who took up with Giggs then lost the plot because he was unfaithful. Why do some blokes jump to the conclusion that because it's a female she's an innocent victim. Do you have a daughter? Would you we be saying “she ought to have thought who she was getting involved with” if she was the female in this situation? We're not talking about the female in this situation. She was most likely not publically forewarned in the national media but she's decided she doesn't want to give evidence against him because they're now back together. Any future females that choose to become involved with him absolutely have been forewarned and share a portion of responsibilty if they then choose to continue to be involved with him regardless. Don't tell me you've got a Daughter and she's sugar and spice and all things nice and if she became involved in an abusive relationship it would all be the other persons fault and you'd kill them. OK on we move to the next fairytale. Lives and relationships are deeply complex don't rush to judge them until you've lived them. People do horrible things to each other.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2023 22:40:04 GMT
Have you read the transcript of the Ched Evans case by the way? Not a rapist but an absolute wrong ‘un. I wouldn’t want either him nor Greenwood anywhere near a daughter of mine…… Transcript? Was the Ched Evans incident recorded? The transcript of the court case with all the evidence presented…..
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 2, 2023 22:46:09 GMT
Transcript? Was the Ched Evans incident recorded? The transcript of the court case with all the evidence presented….. So would that be the transcript of the original trial at which he was convicted or his appeal where he was found to have been wrongly convicted and much of the evidence from the prior discredited?
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Post by datguy on Feb 2, 2023 22:56:26 GMT
5 out of 6 women who are raped don’t report it.
Of the 1 in 6 who do report, less than 1% result in a conviction.
I would say Mason Greenwood is a disgustingly lucky man. But it seems like the odds were overwhelmingly in his favour. That audio from the abuse was heartbreakingly awful.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 2, 2023 22:57:14 GMT
I don't think that's right mate. You're describing Withdrawal of Proceedings. This matter has been Discontinued which can be done at any stage of the process up until the commencement of the trial and as with Withdrawal but unlike with the offering of no evidence, proceedings can be re-instituted later if further evidence should emerge. Which means he'll potentially have it hanging over him for some time. At least I think that's how it works. That's how it works at the Magistrates Court for a discontinuance. At the CC you can discontinue after sending and before the preferred indictment. 23A of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985. If it's after the preferred indictment, which will be the case here as matter was listed for trial then the only method by which the prosecutor can terminate proceedings altogether is to offer no evidence. Where a jury has been sworn, it will be asked to return a formal verdict of not guilty. If the jury has not been sworn, the judge will enter the not guilty verdict under section 17 Criminal Justice Act 1967. This concludes the proceedings and fresh proceedings cannot be started as the verdict has the same effect as if the defendant had been tried and acquitted. As an aside you can't withdraw proceedings at the CC. That can only happen at the Mags. Ok, yes I think you're right, I thought a case could be discontinued up to the trial date. In which case either the police and the CPS are wrong in talking about discontinuation of proceedings instead of offering no evidence or they are being incorrectly reported. I realise it's hair splitting but it's not to Greenwood as 'offering no evidence' means the case can't be revisited whereas 'Discontinuation' means it could.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 2, 2023 23:03:47 GMT
5 out of 6 women who are raped don’t report it. Of the 1 in 6 who do report, less than 1% result in a conviction. I would say Mason Greenwood is a disgustingly lucky man. But it seems like the odds were overwhelmingly in his favour. That audio from the abuse was heartbreakingly awful. Indeed. The voice recording was a truly harrowing insight into the world of domestic violence.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 2, 2023 23:04:07 GMT
For reasons not totally clear that’s not happening though, I’m not judge and jury. I don’t have to like the guy but he either tries to earn a living (he may not have that luxury still) or what sits at home for the rest of his life? Why are the reasons not clear. The victim refuses to give evidence against him because they have resumed their relationship and a victimless prosecution is not in the public interest. See Caroline Flack, when society's need for retribution was considered paramount to the wishes of the injured party. Are/were Mason Greenwood Ryan Giggs or Caroline Flack a danger to the general public? I think the Caroline Flack case is very different as she clearly had issues with her mental health at the time that sadly came out tragically shortly after. Though it doesn’t justify her actions it can explain them to an extent. Greenwood just comes across as a vile, nasty piece of work who in my opinion is a genuine threat to all women if the recording is anything to go by. From the recording he’s happy to use force if he doesn’t get what he wants. I believe that it’s very much in the public interest to go with a victimless prosecution however maybe the CPS just felt that they just wouldn’t win the case with the evidence they had. My biggest concern is for the young lady who’s chosen to reignite her relationship with him. Only she knows why it’s a good move but if she’s happy to be with someone that can treat her in the way he did regardless of his fame and wealth then that’s her call, all I’d say is It’s very sad that she doesn’t respect herself enough to get out and run for the hills. Hearing the sound recording again it’s very unpleasant and even if it was manufactured by the young lady then I’m sure she did it because this wasn’t the first time. His behaviour and language on the recording clearly tells you all you need to know about the type of person he is. I’m sure that he’ll be forgiven by the fans of the team that he joins and treated as some sort of terrace hero but sometimes there’s things in life more important than football. I’d have to say if he turned up at my club I don’t think I’d go and I’d be disappointed at the club for choosing goals over doing the right thing.
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Post by gawa on Feb 2, 2023 23:04:21 GMT
Do you have a daughter? Would you we be saying “she ought to have thought who she was getting involved with” if she was the female in this situation? It was always a matter of time till the "she provoked him" or "she should think about who she goes out with" brigade were in town. There is literally no justification (unless in self defense) for physically assaulting or raping a woman. Many hundreds of thousands of men in the UK apparently disagree - I think they are disgusting. Let's also not forget that 750,000 men reported abuse in 2020 - Not good. Why do you actively defend Andrew Tate then? Bit hypocritical. You can't have it both ways.
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Post by gawa on Feb 2, 2023 23:07:21 GMT
Do you have a daughter? Would you we be saying “she ought to have thought who she was getting involved with” if she was the female in this situation? It was always a matter of time till the "she provoked him" or "she should think about who she goes out with" brigade were in town. There is literally no justification (unless in self defense) for physically assaulting or raping a woman. Many hundreds of thousands of men in the UK apparently disagree - I think they are disgusting. Let's also not forget that 750,000 men reported abuse in 2020 - Not good. And Donald trump too. You're a super fan of Donald who has a long list of sexual misconduct. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegationsWhy do you turn a blind eye to this?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 2, 2023 23:14:45 GMT
It was always a matter of time till the "she provoked him" or "she should think about who she goes out with" brigade were in town. There is literally no justification (unless in self defense) for physically assaulting or raping a woman. Many hundreds of thousands of men in the UK apparently disagree - I think they are disgusting. Let's also not forget that 750,000 men reported abuse in 2020 - Not good. And Donald trump too. You're a super fan of Donald who has a long list of sexual misconduct. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegationsWhy do you turn a blind eye to this? Respectfully - Sometimes you've got to give it a rest on the politics front. For once just try debating without bringing Trump or your view of politicians (often misinformed) into a thread. There are more than enough threads to cover that stuff. If you want to somehow link Mason Greenwood and domestic violence to Trump and (let me guess) Brexit, whack it on one of the millions of politics threads.
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Post by gawa on Feb 2, 2023 23:28:44 GMT
Respectfully - Sometimes you've got to give it a rest on the politics front. For once just try debating without bringing Trump or your view of politicians (often misinformed) into a thread. There are more than enough threads to cover that stuff. If you want to somehow link Mason Greenwood and domestic violence to Trump and (let me guess) Brexit, whack it on one of the millions of politics threads. I just don't understand how you can be so adamant someone with one accusation of sexual misconduct is guilty and then come out with numerous posts like this: "It was always a matter of time till the "she provoked him" or "she should think about who she goes out with" brigade were in town. There is literally no justification (unless in self defense) for physically assaulting or raping a woman. " "But that's a lie. He hasn't been found "not guilty" at all has he. The charges have been dropped after "the withdrawal of key witnesses" and "the case is under continuous review". Clearly we know the case won't be under continuous review but that's not the point." "It's 2023 yet we are still living in an age where a guy can pay a victim millions to escape jail. What about the welfare of other females he might encounter in the future? All the video and audio evidence points to this guy being a violent rapist. Convince me otherwise." If you truly believe all of the above. Then why do you idolise a man with countless accusations of sexual misconduct. This has nothing to do with politics, and it's a very relevant response to the posts you've made. Why does Epsteins mate Donald Trump not get judged by the same standards?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2023 23:42:01 GMT
The transcript of the court case with all the evidence presented….. So would that be the transcript of the original trial at which he was convicted or his appeal where he was found to have been wrongly convicted and much of the evidence from the prior discredited? Both. Just because he’s not a convicted rapist doesn’t mean he’s not a despicable human being. But like Greenwood he has a right to try and earn a living…….
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2023 23:44:29 GMT
Respectfully - Sometimes you've got to give it a rest on the politics front. For once just try debating without bringing Trump or your view of politicians (often misinformed) into a thread. There are more than enough threads to cover that stuff. If you want to somehow link Mason Greenwood and domestic violence to Trump and (let me guess) Brexit, whack it on one of the millions of politics threads. He was specifically referring to Trump’s sexual misconduct so try sticking to the topic………
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2023 23:45:13 GMT
It was always a matter of time till the "she provoked him" or "she should think about who she goes out with" brigade were in town. There is literally no justification (unless in self defense) for physically assaulting or raping a woman. Many hundreds of thousands of men in the UK apparently disagree - I think they are disgusting. Let's also not forget that 750,000 men reported abuse in 2020 - Not good. Why do you actively defend Andrew Tate then? Bit hypocritical. You can't have it both ways. Very hypocritical. Interesting that…….
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Post by gawa on Feb 2, 2023 23:51:05 GMT
Why do you actively defend Andrew Tate then? Bit hypocritical. You can't have it both ways. Very hypocritical. Interesting that……. To be fair on Andrew Tate I could be getting him mixed up with someone. And in Andrews defence, despite what I think of his character, he's not been found guilty of anything as of yet. With Trump though you don't get tens of allegations for nothing. As a post that bianca liked said: "5/6 women don't report it and of the 1/6 do only 1% result in convictions." I ain't no statician but those numbers suggest to me that likelihood of Trump being innocent in all cases is incredibly slim.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 2, 2023 23:53:53 GMT
Respectfully - Sometimes you've got to give it a rest on the politics front. For once just try debating without bringing Trump or your view of politicians (often misinformed) into a thread. There are more than enough threads to cover that stuff. If you want to somehow link Mason Greenwood and domestic violence to Trump and (let me guess) Brexit, whack it on one of the millions of politics threads. He was specifically referring to Trump’s sexual misconduct so try sticking to the topic……… Wouldn't that be better placed on the Trump thread then and not one about Mason Greenwood?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 2, 2023 23:55:42 GMT
Very hypocritical. Interesting that……. To be fair on Andrew Tate I could be getting him mixed up with someone. And in Andrews defence, despite what I think of his character, he's not been found guilty of anything as of yet. With Trump though you don't get tens of allegations for nothing. As a post that bianca liked said: "5/6 women don't report it and of the 1/6 do only 1% result in convictions." I ain't no statician but those numbers suggest to me that likelihood of Trump being innocent in all cases is incredibly slim. Are you talking to yourself?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 3, 2023 0:02:17 GMT
He was specifically referring to Trump’s sexual misconduct so try sticking to the topic……… Wouldn't that be better placed on the Trump thread then and not one about Mason Greenwood? You’re making general points about rape that aren’t specific to the Greenwood incident, threads very often veer slightly off-piste before getting back to the topic in hand. You could just reply to the original point instead of kicking the can down the road?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 3, 2023 0:10:32 GMT
Wouldn't that be better placed on the Trump thread then and not one about Mason Greenwood? Your making general points about rape that aren’t specific to the Greenwood incident, threads very often veer slightly off-piste before getting back to the topic in hand. You could just reply to the original point instead of. kicking the can down the road? I could also not reply to the point because that would annoy you much more. In the meantime I'll accept your apology re Andrew Tate.
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Post by gawa on Feb 3, 2023 0:12:43 GMT
To be fair on Andrew Tate I could be getting him mixed up with someone. And in Andrews defence, despite what I think of his character, he's not been found guilty of anything as of yet. With Trump though you don't get tens of allegations for nothing. As a post that bianca liked said: "5/6 women don't report it and of the 1/6 do only 1% result in convictions." I ain't no statician but those numbers suggest to me that likelihood of Trump being innocent in all cases is incredibly slim. Are you talking to yourself? You realise that prestwichpotter and I are different people?
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