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Post by matelot1996 on Oct 2, 2022 14:03:40 GMT
Not true. Between them there has been ample opportunities that would have been buried by Top Championship Strikers. I don’t see it - I think the play going forwards is as big a shambles as the stuff at the back. Maybe so but Good Strikers occasionally score from half chances. Delap in particular has had more than enough chances to chalk up 3 or 4 goals. Gayle and Campbell likewise. They are not as good as we think they are.
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Post by biddulphchav on Oct 2, 2022 14:07:44 GMT
I get that Delap is 19 and still learning but I haven’t seen much at all from him that suggests he’s ready for this level. We should be playing 4-3-3 with Gayle up top, Campbell on the right, DWP or Fosu on the left. Gayle isn’t a lone striker. Honestly don’t see a place in the side for him at the moment, even in a two. I think Gayle has been a goal threat, and he’s been a bit unlucky with offsides. Delap doesn’t look like scoring and seems more interested in battering the centre halves (which is fine but there has to be some end product). I wouldn’t mind seeing Gayle up top in a 4-3-3 and if he isn’t up to it then Brown
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Post by thevoid on Oct 2, 2022 14:12:19 GMT
Have Man City demanded we play Delap every game? He's terrible and needs to be dropped
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Post by a on Oct 2, 2022 14:39:42 GMT
I said on the (now locked) Delap thread, which @window1 got angry about; no service no goals.
How the fuck do some of our fan base not get that fact? You build a team from the back. Our back isn’t great…
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Post by a on Oct 2, 2022 14:43:50 GMT
Just a month ago this was a promotion capable squad and Alex Neil came in saying he expects to take us out of the division this season or next with the squad available. I didn't realise he meant into League One. Aside from beating a Hull side which last lost 5 in a row. We've been shocking under Alex Neil. Wrong appointment. You’ve written Neil off after 5 games? 😮
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 2, 2022 14:54:12 GMT
Gayle isn’t a lone striker. Honestly don’t see a place in the side for him at the moment, even in a two. I think Gayle has been a goal threat, and he’s been a bit unlucky with offsides. Delap doesn’t look like scoring and seems more interested in battering the centre halves (which is fine but there has to be some end product). I wouldn’t mind seeing Gayle up top in a 4-3-3 and if he isn’t up to it then Brown Your lone striker has to be capable of holding it up and linking the play and ideally decent in the air. Haven’t seen much to suggest Gayle can do a lot of that stuff.
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2022 14:55:16 GMT
Just a month ago this was a promotion capable squad and Alex Neil came in saying he expects to take us out of the division this season or next with the squad available. I didn't realise he meant into League One. Aside from beating a Hull side which last lost 5 in a row. We've been shocking under Alex Neil. Wrong appointment. You’ve written Neil off after 5 games? 😮 I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards.
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Post by TinkerT on Oct 2, 2022 14:56:48 GMT
For a big lad delap wins absolute f all in the air, maybe if he concentrated on the ball rather than what defenders against him are doing he would be better. I did warn people on here claiming him.to be our saviour when he signed. Weak. As. Piss. He's never played proper mens football
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Post by potter1989 on Oct 2, 2022 14:58:58 GMT
Send delap back to city, he’s toss
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Post by a on Oct 2, 2022 14:59:12 GMT
You’ve written Neil off after 5 games? 😮 I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. Far too early to tell. The club once again made an ass of things by letting O’Neill have a summer window then pulling the trigger. He should’ve gone end of last season. Neil now has to try to cobble a team out of players who he might not have wanted etc.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 2, 2022 14:59:16 GMT
You’ve written Neil off after 5 games? 😮 I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. To be fair you could probably help with that by not being so nakedly biased and applying the same standards to the new manager that you did to the old one. I agree with a lot of what you say about AN’s start (though I was/am happy with the appointment) but surely you have to accept how hollow it rings when you made every excuse under the sun for the last manager?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 2, 2022 15:00:25 GMT
That our entire strike force have managed to score so far this season?
Or have I mist out on one?
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Oct 2, 2022 15:00:51 GMT
It's easy to lose count
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2022 15:05:15 GMT
I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. Far too early to tell. The club once again made an ass of things by letting O’Neill have a summer window then pulling the trigger. He should’ve gone end of last season. Neil now has to try to cobble a team out of players who he might not have wanted etc. 100% agree. They've made a pigs ear of it. If they weren't confident with O'Neil he should have gone at the end of last season. Leaving a decent foundation and a full pre season and transfer window too to build from. Instead they let the old manager make the transfers and do pre season and then bring in the new one with a few days left in the window. The whole thing just feels like a panic button was pressed.
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 2, 2022 15:14:27 GMT
I didn't think our strikers were the problem today. If anything, Wilmot aside they were our two most aggressive players. The rest of the team were a bunch of pussycats compared to Watford who had players who were determined to win the ball and get to the second ball first. I said in the first ten minutes that we were just too late getting close enough to make a challenge or interception whereas their players were making sure they were getting there. Our passing was bad but it looked worse because of the number of players we had who didn't want to make sure they were first to the ball.
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Post by wakeypotter on Oct 2, 2022 15:16:32 GMT
I think Gayle has been a goal threat, and he’s been a bit unlucky with offsides. Delap doesn’t look like scoring and seems more interested in battering the centre halves (which is fine but there has to be some end product). I wouldn’t mind seeing Gayle up top in a 4-3-3 and if he isn’t up to it then Brown Your lone striker has to be capable of holding it up and linking the play and ideally decent in the air. Haven’t seen much to suggest Gayle can do a lot of that stuff. I don’t think Gayle could play as lone striker for those reasons you have given but he does win or challenge for more headers than delap.
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2022 15:18:41 GMT
I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. To be fair you could probably help with that by not being so nakedly biased and applying the same standards to the new manager that you did to the old one. I agree with a lot of what you say about AN’s start (though I was/am happy with the appointment) but surely you have to accept how hollow it rings when you made every excuse under the sun for the last manager? I fully accept that's what some may think. I could say the same about others who suddenly see injuries as an issue. And I even said in my post that I expect we will be better when injured players return. Something I've been consistent on since the start of the season. And excuse AN for. But with that said, I expect us to do better than we have been, and it seems every other squad who has changed manager has done alright. So I don't personally buy into all the excuses about nothing being ANs fault rolled out by some.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 2, 2022 15:27:51 GMT
To be fair you could probably help with that by not being so nakedly biased and applying the same standards to the new manager that you did to the old one. I agree with a lot of what you say about AN’s start (though I was/am happy with the appointment) but surely you have to accept how hollow it rings when you made every excuse under the sun for the last manager? I fully accept that's what some may think. I could say the same about others who suddenly see injuries as an issue. And I even said in my post that I expect we will be better when injured players return. Something I've been consistent on since the start of the season. And excuse AN for. But with that said, I expect us to do better than we have been, and it seems every other squad who has changed manager has done alright. So I don't personally buy into all the excuses about nothing being ANs fault rolled out by some. And rightly so. Yet you must accept surely that having the knives out for the new manager immediately after the song and dance you made about MON and how he couldn't possibly be expected to do better is hypocritical surely?
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2022 15:40:30 GMT
I fully accept that's what some may think. I could say the same about others who suddenly see injuries as an issue. And I even said in my post that I expect we will be better when injured players return. Something I've been consistent on since the start of the season. And excuse AN for. But with that said, I expect us to do better than we have been, and it seems every other squad who has changed manager has done alright. So I don't personally buy into all the excuses about nothing being ANs fault rolled out by some. And rightly so. Yet you must accept surely that having the knives out for the new manager immediately after the song and dance you made about MON and how he couldn't possibly be expected to do better is hypocritical surely? There were alot of candidates I wanted and was excited about joining. Alex Neil was not one of them. But to say the knives are out from day one is wrong. I want nothing more than for us to be successful whoever the manager is. But the poor results certainly havent helped my opinion of a manager whom I don't find particularly endearing. And I know I'm not the only one who shares that opinion on here either.
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Post by swampySCFC on Oct 2, 2022 15:46:51 GMT
Bet Citeh wish they could recall Delap before we turn him in to a 3rd div player
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Oct 2, 2022 15:54:59 GMT
Only Stoke could take a prolific Championship goalscorer and one of the most sought after young strikers in the country and turn them to shit. It is incredible really. Prolific? How many goals has he scored in the championship since we got relegated? He scored 23 goals in each of the last 2 seasons in which he played in the Championship. I'd call that prolific. Not sure why you mention "since we got relegated". He didn't play for us.
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Oct 2, 2022 15:58:01 GMT
We create square root of bugger all for any striker to work with mind. We created a chance for Delap, he tried to be a clever bastard and scoop it in to the top corner instead of doing what Davis did…. It was a weird finish but I'd argue he created the chance all by himself. Nobody else was creating anything for the strikers.
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Post by stokemark on Oct 2, 2022 16:02:17 GMT
You’ve written Neil off after 5 games? 😮 I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. Overall you are talking rubbish You have an agenda to stick to though so no surprise
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Post by TheBra1n on Oct 2, 2022 16:02:59 GMT
it really does baffle me, what in the world were you all really expecting with Liam Delap, his total career appearances before joining us was 99 minutes of football, TOTAL, give the lad a chance FFS, 6 games for Stoke and youve written him off, do me a favour
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Post by gawa on Oct 2, 2022 16:06:44 GMT
I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. Overall you are talking rubbish You have an agenda to stick to though so no surprise What's rubbish? Tell me.
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Post by tosh on Oct 2, 2022 16:12:15 GMT
I can't write him off after 5 games but he's not the appointment I would have picked, I made my preferences clear at the time. We've got him on a 3 year deal though so with FFP I think our hands are tied now. But with the games we've got in front of us, you can't blame me for being pessimistic. Every statistic is worse on average; expected Goals scored/conceded, shots attempted/on target v Shots againt/on target, possession, attempted passes, pass accuracy.. No doubt we will improve, we have to, but I think any manager would do better when the likes of Tymon, Powell, Souttar, brown etc. Are starting. But I personally would have thought we'd be doing better by now and for me it feels like we've got the appointment wrong at this stage. Let's not forget this isn't a Watford side which has been setting the championship alight either. They weren't great today and they entered the game with 1 win in 8. We had 10 minutes were we attacked at the start of the second half, the rest of the game it was us who made them look good. Because I started following Stoke under the previous manager, I'm always going to get people criticising my opinion. But from what I've seen so far, we're going backwards. Far too early to tell. The club once again made an ass of things by letting O’Neill have a summer window then pulling the trigger. He should’ve gone end of last season. Neil now has to try to cobble a team out of players who he might not have wanted etc. That’s absolutely right. The manager can’t say in interviews what he really thinks of the squad whilst he has to continue working with it and whilst he can’t change it, but he must now realise that we have far too many players who just aren’t good enough. That’s primarily down to the club letting the previous manager do the recruitment during the window before sacking him. Hopefully after today, he stops persevering with five at the back though.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2022 16:29:07 GMT
Far too early to tell. The club once again made an ass of things by letting O’Neill have a summer window then pulling the trigger. He should’ve gone end of last season. Neil now has to try to cobble a team out of players who he might not have wanted etc. That’s absolutely right. The manager can’t say in interviews what he really thinks of the squad whilst he has to continue working with it and whilst he can’t change it, but he must now realise that we have far too many players who just aren’t good enough. That’s primarily down to the club letting the previous manager do the recruitment during the window before sacking him. Hopefully after today, he stops persevering with five at the back though. It was no different when MON took over though, he inherited players like Tommy Smith who would have been gone in a flash if they weren’t such high earners. He knew the squad he was going to be working with……….
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 2, 2022 16:33:09 GMT
And rightly so. Yet you must accept surely that having the knives out for the new manager immediately after the song and dance you made about MON and how he couldn't possibly be expected to do better is hypocritical surely? There were alot of candidates I wanted and was excited about joining. Alex Neil was not one of them. But to say the knives are out from day one is wrong. I want nothing more than for us to be successful whoever the manager is. But the poor results certainly havent helped my opinion of a manager whom I don't find particularly endearing. And I know I'm not the only one who shares that opinion on here either. You were being critical after the first couple of games to be fair. Which is fine and your right and all that, I just want you to acknowledge you’re not prepared to treat the new manager with the kid gloves you did Michel O’Neill and that you’re not exactly an objective party here?
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Post by a on Oct 2, 2022 16:34:39 GMT
That’s absolutely right. The manager can’t say in interviews what he really thinks of the squad whilst he has to continue working with it and whilst he can’t change it, but he must now realise that we have far too many players who just aren’t good enough. That’s primarily down to the club letting the previous manager do the recruitment during the window before sacking him. Hopefully after today, he stops persevering with five at the back though. It was no different when MON took over though, he inherited players like Tommy Smith who would have been gone in a flash if they weren’t such high earners. He knew the squad he was going to be working with………. He was given time. It’s far too early, it’s ludicrous to write him off after 5 games. I’ll be more critical after 3 seasons of the same shit. O’Neill did excellently initially.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 2, 2022 16:36:49 GMT
It was no different when MON took over though, he inherited players like Tommy Smith who would have been gone in a flash if they weren’t such high earners. He knew the squad he was going to be working with………. He was given time. It’s far too early, it’s ludicrous to write him off after 5 games. I’ll be more critical after 3 seasons of the same shit. O’Neill did excellently initially. I’m certainly not writing AN off and he has my full support. I just can’t believe the same manager that was confidently telling us he has no problems in making early substitutions to change things (as he did as Sunderland manager at the Bet365 recently) didn’t make a substitution until after they went 2-0 up and even then it was like for like……..
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