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Post by werrington on Sept 24, 2022 21:35:58 GMT
Exactly. Don't expect anyone to admit it though. They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. Not true England fans? I’ve followed England all over the world/Europe spending an absolute fortune ….wtf are you on about? I’d sack him tomorrow
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 24, 2022 21:38:58 GMT
And bring in who? 2 months before a major tournament, because of 2-3 poor results, if that.
The Hungary ones you can almost forgive given their timing at the end of a long season, anyone would struggle to get themselves properly motivated. Admittedly, the one the other night was poor, but we only lost 1-0 to Italy away and probably shaded the game on the whole. F*cking hell.
Surely he's earned enough credit in the bank from the last couple of tournaments to have another crack?
How did the tactical magicians of Hoddle, Ericssen and Capello do again?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 24, 2022 21:41:36 GMT
Exactly. Don't expect anyone to admit it though. They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. What an absolute load of garbage. “Not true England fans”? The opposite is true, real England fans want the team to do well and will call out inept managers who restrict that happening like this under qualified idiot. Deluded claptrap
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 24, 2022 21:44:20 GMT
And bring in who? 2 months before a major tournament, because of 2-3 poor results, if that. The Hungary ones you can almost forgive given their timing at the end of a long season, anyone would struggle to get themselves properly motivated. Admittedly, the one the other night was poor, but we only lost 1-0 to Italy away and probably shaded the game on the whole. F*cking hell. Surely he's earned enough credit in the bank from the last couple of tournaments to have another crack? How did the tactical magicians of Hoddle, Ericssen and Capello do again? “Probably shaded the game”. That is laughable, we were completely outplayed by a side significantly under strength
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 24, 2022 21:47:29 GMT
And bring in who? 2 months before a major tournament, because of 2-3 poor results, if that. The Hungary ones you can almost forgive given their timing at the end of a long season, anyone would struggle to get themselves properly motivated. Admittedly, the one the other night was poor, but we only lost 1-0 to Italy away and probably shaded the game on the whole. F*cking hell. Surely he's earned enough credit in the bank from the last couple of tournaments to have another crack? How did the tactical magicians of Hoddle, Ericssen and Capello do again? “Probably shaded the game”. That is laughable, we were completely outplayed by a side significantly under strength To be fair I only watched the first half, then looked at the stats. We had more possession and the better of the shots. Can't find xG stats unfortunately but wouldn't have thought there'd have been much in it? Did they batter us?
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 24, 2022 21:53:48 GMT
They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. What an absolute load of garbage. “Not true England fans”? The opposite is true, real England fans want the team to do well and will call out inept managers who restrict that happening like this under qualified idiot. Deluded claptrap Sorry but that's just what I think. Maybe not among Stoke fans but among others particularly those in the Greedy Six. Look back to where we've come from and where we are now. Chalk and cheese. Players proud to wear the shirt, a team we can be proud of equally. He's transformed us hence the greater expectations both last year and this year. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Christ, but he's done a good job and certainly deserves a final crack during this WC. These tournaments aren't easy to win, only one can by definition and the winner usually has to rely on a huge slice of luck / a penalty shoot-out win to do it. Also, what team would you have put out that was any different to the one the other night? Foden, Sterling, Bellingham, Kane, Rice, James all started? Maybe swap Mount out? Would it have been drastically any different? Grealish was supposedly the star man last year let's not forget and Southgate was an idiot for not picking him.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 24, 2022 22:04:57 GMT
What an absolute load of garbage. “Not true England fans”? The opposite is true, real England fans want the team to do well and will call out inept managers who restrict that happening like this under qualified idiot. Deluded claptrap Sorry but that's just what I think. Maybe not among Stoke fans but among others particularly those in the Greedy Six. Look back to where we've come from and where we are now. Chalk and cheese. Players proud to wear the shirt, a team we can be proud of equally. He's transformed us hence the greater expectations both last year and this year. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Christ, but he's done a good job and certainly deserves a final crack during this WC. These tournaments aren't easy to win, only one can by definition and the winner usually has to rely on a huge slice of luck / a penalty shoot-out win to do it. Also, what team would you have put out that was any different to the one the other night? Foden, Sterling, Bellingham, Kane, Rice, James all started? Maybe swap Mount out? Would it have been drastically any different? Grealish was supposedly the star man last year let's not forget and Southgate was an idiot for not picking him. It’s not about the personnel it’s about the manager
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 24, 2022 22:45:24 GMT
There's absolutely zero chance England will change manager before the World Cup. Get real.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 25, 2022 0:30:45 GMT
Heavy defeat to force the FA's hand please. Get him gone 👍 They won’t sack him now with one more match before the World Cup mate I reckon he will walk away after it no matter the outcome He indicated that a few months ago
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 25, 2022 11:09:49 GMT
Exactly. Don't expect anyone to admit it though. They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. So a true England fan has to be country over club, what utter crap 😂 Players loving him means pretty much nothing, weren't people saying how much the players liked MON, getting youngsters to sign on etc. It's a results business and recent results and performances haven't been good enough, that's it, the criticism he's getting is deserved, it's been pretty dire recently.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 25, 2022 11:20:36 GMT
Qualifying with ease, a semi-final (a Kane missed sitter away from the final) and an actual final in the two championships he has managed in.
Thems the results that matter and he has done an exceptional job, second to only Ramsey.
Questioning his management is laughable. We'll have another good championships in a couple of months then he should walk away. 3 Finals is enough for anyone.
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Post by bjarnig on Sept 25, 2022 12:07:48 GMT
No way will he be sacked, he's England's most successful manager since Alf Ramsey caught a break in blighty back in 1966. I say that as someone old enough to remember the England team not even qualifying for a World Cup for 12 of my formative years from 1970 to 1982. Back then you'd have killed for the World Cup semi-final and Euros final that Soutgate has delivered. World cup was an easy run. Lost when faced with half decent opposition. Euros; home advantage plus no quality opposition until the final.
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Post by rivival on Sept 25, 2022 12:46:20 GMT
Can anyone with a people mover please cross the channel and go and rescue them.
going to be a Dunkirk situation.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 25, 2022 13:01:10 GMT
They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. So a true England fan has to be country over club, what utter crap 😂 Players loving him means pretty much nothing, weren't people saying how much the players liked MON, getting youngsters to sign on etc. It's a results business and recent results and performances haven't been good enough, that's it, the criticism he's getting is deserved, it's been pretty dire recently. It has been poor, I didn't see most of the Italy game admittedly. Did they dominate us? Hungary games I am inclined to forgive given the ridiculous timing of them. Also, is this tournament meaningless or not? If it is, then people need to lay off Southgate given they're essentially friendlies and WC warm-up matches. If it's not, then it's doing its job and serving its function as a more competitive international tournament. I don't know how you can say it's meaningless yet stick the boot in when we don't win a few games. It doesn't bode well going into the WC but we have been in far worse positions before. Perspective is needed and a full assessment given in a few months time.
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Post by werrington on Sept 25, 2022 13:03:56 GMT
So a true England fan has to be country over club, what utter crap 😂 Players loving him means pretty much nothing, weren't people saying how much the players liked MON, getting youngsters to sign on etc. It's a results business and recent results and performances haven't been good enough, that's it, the criticism he's getting is deserved, it's been pretty dire recently. It has been poor, I didn't see most of the Italy game admittedly. Did they dominate us? Hungary games I am inclined to forgive given the ridiculous timing of them. Also, is this tournament meaningless or not? If it is, then people need to lay off Southgate given they're essentially friendlies and WC warm-up matches. If it's not, then it's doing its job and serving its function as a more competitive international tournament. It’s certainly not meaningless as relegation means we no longer play against the leading nations and pitting our wits unless it’s at a major tournament
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 25, 2022 13:06:05 GMT
It has been poor, I didn't see most of the Italy game admittedly. Did they dominate us? Hungary games I am inclined to forgive given the ridiculous timing of them. Also, is this tournament meaningless or not? If it is, then people need to lay off Southgate given they're essentially friendlies and WC warm-up matches. If it's not, then it's doing its job and serving its function as a more competitive international tournament. It’s certainly not meaningless as relegation means we no longer play against the leading nations and pitting our wits unless it’s at a major tournament I agree, but have seen MANY people say the tournament is a joke and basically friendlies etc.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 25, 2022 13:08:04 GMT
I don't know if it's possible given the schedules but if we perform poorly tomorrow night then I think there's a strong case to arrange 1 or 2 friendlies at short notice before the tournament begins, even if they're behind closed doors.
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Post by Gods on Sept 25, 2022 14:00:39 GMT
No way will he be sacked, he's England's most successful manager since Alf Ramsey caught a break in blighty back in 1966. I say that as someone old enough to remember the England team not even qualifying for a World Cup for 12 of my formative years from 1970 to 1982. Back then you'd have killed for the World Cup semi-final and Euros final that Soutgate has delivered. World cup was an easy run. Lost when faced with half decent opposition. Euros; home advantage plus no quality opposition until the final. You could write off 1966 in pretty much the same way except that time we won the final.
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Post by peterpan1 on Sept 25, 2022 15:18:09 GMT
Qualifying with ease, a semi-final (a Kane missed sitter away from the final) and an actual final in the two championships he has managed in. Thems the results that matter and he has done an exceptional job, second to only Ramsey. Questioning his management is laughable. We'll have another good championships in a couple of months then he should walk away. 3 Finals is enough for anyone. But he's won f**k all, we may as well have come 4th, 5th or 6th !
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Post by madnellie on Sept 25, 2022 16:47:26 GMT
Exactly. Don't expect anyone to admit it though. They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. I have to disagree with that mate. I love watching England (men and women) and although I've only been away with England men once (Copenhagen) it's one of my favourite footie memories. Having watched the Women's Euros this summer and seen the difference an England manager who isn't afraid to attack and is brave enough to make changes to turn a game around makes, I don't see how it's possible to keep Southgate any longer. I like the bloke, we just won't actually win anything with him in charge.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 25, 2022 16:48:02 GMT
Qualifying with ease, a semi-final (a Kane missed sitter away from the final) and an actual final in the two championships he has managed in. Thems the results that matter and he has done an exceptional job, second to only Ramsey. Questioning his management is laughable. We'll have another good championships in a couple of months then he should walk away. 3 Finals is enough for anyone. But he's won f**k all, we may as well have come 4th, 5th or 6th ! That's a very hardline thought process and could be said of numerous managers across scores of international teams. Success should not be only judged by all or nothing, hero-zero, criteria. Getting to a final is an achievement even if a team doesn't ultimately win as far as I'm concerned. I have no issue with him being replaced whenever the time comes tbh.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 25, 2022 16:50:11 GMT
Qualifying with ease, a semi-final (a Kane missed sitter away from the final) and an actual final in the two championships he has managed in. Thems the results that matter and he has done an exceptional job, second to only Ramsey. Questioning his management is laughable. We'll have another good championships in a couple of months then he should walk away. 3 Finals is enough for anyone. But he's won f**k all, we may as well have come 4th, 5th or 6th ! I take it you didn't enjoy the past 2 finals then? Ridiculous thing to say.
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Post by lordb on Sept 25, 2022 18:40:43 GMT
And bring in who? 2 months before a major tournament, because of 2-3 poor results, if that. The Hungary ones you can almost forgive given their timing at the end of a long season, anyone would struggle to get themselves properly motivated. Admittedly, the one the other night was poor, but we only lost 1-0 to Italy away and probably shaded the game on the whole. F*cking hell. Surely he's earned enough credit in the bank from the last couple of tournaments to have another crack? How did the tactical magicians of Hoddle, Ericssen and Capello do again? “Probably shaded the game”. That is laughable, we were completely outplayed by a side significantly under strength I'm confused Which game are talking about, the Hungary game? That was embarrassing The Italy game? We weren't completely out played that's nonsense We weren't good enough for sure but hyperbole doesn't help, that's what Bayern is here for He'd sack managers so quickly that Peter Swales, Doug Ellis and the Watford board would blush Anyway Grealush made a difference when he came on and then got himself a stupid booking so suspended tomorrow So it's wing backs again or Mount plays Germans are still very slow so we have to run at them
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Post by lordb on Sept 25, 2022 18:43:52 GMT
They're not true England fans, deep down they're club over country and are wanting us to fail to justify their assessment that Southgate isn't qualified. They're more bothered about being proven right than actually getting behind the side. You see the players, they absolutely love him. Love playing for England, going to St. George's Park, the rest of it. He has instilled that into the squad. I'm not saying it can't be replicated but history tells us it won't be. Who took over after Alf Ramsey? And Bobby Robson? Were they successful? I genuinely wasn't old enough but I'm pretty sure the answer is 'No'. I have to disagree with that mate. I love watching England (men and women) and although I've only been away with England men once (Copenhagen) it's one of my favourite footie memories. Having watched the Women's Euros this summer and seen the difference an England manager who isn't afraid to attack and is brave enough to make changes to turn a game around makes, I don't see how it's possible to keep Southgate any longer. I like the bloke, we just won't actually win anything with him in charge. That's an argument Which attacking manager could we get, right now? Timing is terrible After the World Cup then we can go for someone but have to be a non English man Potter would have been my shout but he's not going to be available in January
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 25, 2022 18:46:58 GMT
“Probably shaded the game”. That is laughable, we were completely outplayed by a side significantly under strength I'm confused Which game are talking about, the Hungary game? That was embarrassing The Italy game? We weren't completely out played that's nonsense We weren't good enough for sure but hyperbole doesn't help, that's what Bayern is here for He'd sack managers so quickly that Peter Swales, Doug Ellis and the Watford board would blush Anyway Grealush made a difference when he came on and then got himself a stupid booking so suspended tomorrow So it's wing backs again or Mount plays Germans are still very slow so we have to run at them I was talking about the Italy game mate, midfield was overrun and their defenders had our forwards in their pockets. Defensively we looked ponderous. It was shite
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Post by peterpan1 on Sept 25, 2022 18:53:01 GMT
But he's won f**k all, we may as well have come 4th, 5th or 6th ! I take it you didn't enjoy the past 2 finals then? Ridiculous thing to say. That's a bit like saying did you enjoy the FA cup final when losing to Man City. I repeat my post from the Euros...it was pissing down, we were at home with vociferous fans and we still contrived to lose the final. Everything should have pointed to an England win. So no I hated it if truth be told.
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Post by peterpan1 on Sept 25, 2022 18:54:36 GMT
But he's won f**k all, we may as well have come 4th, 5th or 6th ! That's a very hardline thought process and could be said of numerous managers across scores of international teams. Success should not be only judged by all or nothing, hero-zero, criteria. Getting to a final is an achievement even if a team doesn't ultimately win as far as I'm concerned. I have no issue with him being replaced whenever the time comes tbh. Fair point re getting to the final, but the records book will say England = Runners up.
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Post by madnellie on Sept 25, 2022 18:57:17 GMT
I have to disagree with that mate. I love watching England (men and women) and although I've only been away with England men once (Copenhagen) it's one of my favourite footie memories. Having watched the Women's Euros this summer and seen the difference an England manager who isn't afraid to attack and is brave enough to make changes to turn a game around makes, I don't see how it's possible to keep Southgate any longer. I like the bloke, we just won't actually win anything with him in charge. That's an argument Which attacking manager could we get, right now? Timing is terrible After the World Cup then we can go for someone but have to be a non English man Potter would have been my shout but he's not going to be available in January That's the problem isn't it. Who can we realistically get who would be up to the job? You look at the new manager odds and there's not too many inspiring choices on there. Potter would have been great, but I don't know if he would even want it at this stage in his career. If we went down the non Englishman route I would be more than happy with Rodgers, and I think he's a realistic target.
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Post by lordb on Sept 25, 2022 19:01:01 GMT
I'm confused Which game are talking about, the Hungary game? That was embarrassing The Italy game? We weren't completely out played that's nonsense We weren't good enough for sure but hyperbole doesn't help, that's what Bayern is here for He'd sack managers so quickly that Peter Swales, Doug Ellis and the Watford board would blush Anyway Grealush made a difference when he came on and then got himself a stupid booking so suspended tomorrow So it's wing backs again or Mount plays Germans are still very slow so we have to run at them I was talking about the Italy game mate, midfield was overrun and their defenders had our forwards in their pockets. Defensively we looked ponderous. It was shite Ish We weren't completely outplayed though 1 0 was about right I thought 0. 0 wouldn't have been unfair either though Thought Italy were 7/10 and we were 6/10 England do need freshening up, we have good players, but let's see what happens in the World Cup, tournaments can develop in unexpected ways I still think the tournament is wide ooen, not one genuinely top side Maybe someone will turn into a dominant side but I think there could be more 'shocks' than usual not much between the traditional 'average' nations and the traditional big hitters The first round of group matches in particular could be more interesting than usual Who do we play first USA? Or Iran? USA have had better sides than they do now but obviously pressure on England Ww Certainly are in worse shape atm than we were going into last summer
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Post by lordb on Sept 25, 2022 19:01:57 GMT
That's a very hardline thought process and could be said of numerous managers across scores of international teams. Success should not be only judged by all or nothing, hero-zero, criteria. Getting to a final is an achievement even if a team doesn't ultimately win as far as I'm concerned. I have no issue with him being replaced whenever the time comes tbh. Fair point re getting to the final, but the records book will say England = Runners up. To be fair the record books show that's the best we have ever done in the Euros
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