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Post by musik on Sept 11, 2022 21:45:03 GMT
Left 174
Right 175
And islamistic political party Nyans get into the municipal council in Malmö! Sensational.
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 12, 2022 1:04:06 GMT
No doubt Law and Order, Crime if you like is the #1 priority on the Election Tour for the political parties this year. Sweden. The well-known Gangsta Paradise. I will read that book one day. However, back on track ... Another idea I read described was to let the perpetrator work in prison until the decided money is paid to the victim. Not as it is today, where the perpetrator gets paid to work, and can SAVE some money, and still gets a room, food, medical care, tv, physical exercise et cetera. The plan was, first work to get money to pay for those benefits, then pay off to the victim. Let's say 10 million SEK for assault or rape. That would take about a hundred years since the wage should be limited, there aren't that many highly qualified jobs that can be performed in prison. To save 100.000 SEK a year to the punishment (after all the mentioned costs are paid) isn't that bad at all. And all goes to the victim. It wasn't crystal clear but I think the writer meant to get free through work. With that kind of ideas in the media, artcles, outlooks, it's going to be pretty wild tomorrow. To be fair, the paid work concept in parts of Scandinavia has also been associated with significant reductions in repeat offence. Punishment is important, but isn’t developing a system that reduced the risk of future crime more important?
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 12, 2022 7:44:30 GMT
The wonders of proportional representation
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Post by musik on Sept 12, 2022 8:03:27 GMT
No doubt Law and Order, Crime if you like is the #1 priority on the Election Tour for the political parties this year. Sweden. The well-known Gangsta Paradise. I will read that book one day. However, back on track ... Another idea I read described was to let the perpetrator work in prison until the decided money is paid to the victim. Not as it is today, where the perpetrator gets paid to work, and can SAVE some money, and still gets a room, food, medical care, tv, physical exercise et cetera. The plan was, first work to get money to pay for those benefits, then pay off to the victim. Let's say 10 million SEK for assault or rape. That would take about a hundred years since the wage should be limited, there aren't that many highly qualified jobs that can be performed in prison. To save 100.000 SEK a year to the punishment (after all the mentioned costs are paid) isn't that bad at all. And all goes to the victim. It wasn't crystal clear but I think the writer meant to get free through work. With that kind of ideas in the media, artcles, outlooks, it's going to be pretty wild tomorrow. To be fair, the paid work concept in parts of Scandinavia has also been associated with significant reductions in repeat offence. Punishment is important, but isn’t developing a system that reduced the risk of future crime more important? Which the above system would lead to, even an eliminated risk of future crime when it comes to the individual in the example. If the perpretator saves 100.000 SEK per year (a lot of money!) it takes 100 years before the one convicted for assault or rape is free.
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Post by musik on Sept 12, 2022 8:08:51 GMT
7.712.103 people in Sweden ate allowed to vote. 47.000 votes is the difference atm. The LEFT side get 174 seats. The RIGHT side get 175 seats. The difference is something like 0.8-0.9%.
They will until Thursday count 200.000 votes from people voting in advance and 50.000 votes from abroad.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 12, 2022 8:16:04 GMT
7.712.103 people in Sweden ate allowed to vote. 47.000 votes is the difference atm. The LEFT side get 174 seats. The RIGHT side get 175 seats. The difference is something like 0.8-0.9%. They will until Thursday count 200.000 votes from people voting in advance and 50.000 votes from abroad. What’s your guess With the postal votes are they more likely to be right or left leaning I would imagine the votes from abroad would more likely to be left leaning though I may be wrong To me it appears to be a expensive way to achieve stalemates And give a few dodgy people to much political sway
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Post by musik on Sept 12, 2022 8:23:53 GMT
If nothing changes we might get Forsell from the Conservative Party as our new Minister of Justice. A person who in February declared he wants the victims to decide the perpretator's punishment.
The four parties, SD, M, KD, L have agreed upon a complete stop to immigration. They have also guidelines how to send people back. These returning people could get a reward for doing so.
They also want visiting zones and to visit people even when they don't look suspicious. They have a suggestion of automatic ADHD-testing of small children 2-3 years old in the suburbans if they suspect some unnatural behaviour. More cameras can we expect as well.
The goal is no no-go-areas left. The goal is no drugs whatsoever. The goal is put the victim first and let the victim decide. The perpretator have had his fun, now it's time for him to feel scared and terrified.
The housing market is a shaky issue. Not SD (Sweden Democrats) our second largest political party now, but the other three can think of an increased rent level by up to more than 300%. Some suggest these increases will make the no go areas disappear by itself. Obviously the idea is based on people can't rent at those costs. Where will they go??
An increased co-operation with England. When it blows here we can export wind power and vice versa, they say. I still wait for the technical details. Nuclear power to China, they plan.
And SD Sweden Democrats will include the teeth in our health care system (together w V the communist Left party). And it's about time, because why should it cost 100 SEK to see a doctor and 16500 to get a new tooth?
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Post by musik on Sept 12, 2022 8:36:15 GMT
7.712.103 people in Sweden ate allowed to vote. 47.000 votes is the difference atm. The LEFT side get 174 seats. The RIGHT side get 175 seats. The difference is something like 0.8-0.9%. They will until Thursday count 200.000 votes from people voting in advance and 50.000 votes from abroad. What’s your guess With the postal votes are they more likely to be right or left leaning I would imagine the votes from abroad would more likely to be left leaning though I may be wrong To me it appears to be a expensive way to achieve stalemates And give a few dodgy people to much political sway The postal votes have traditionally been Conservative votes. It was the taxes that made them leave in the first place. When it comes to the other votes from people in Sweden voting early I personally wouldn't be surprised if many of them are Social Democrats and Sweden Democrats votes and not to the small parties; people who either do as they've always done and their father and grandfather before them or the one's who wanted a change a long time ago. Neither have to wait, both groups have decided early on.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 12, 2022 10:08:05 GMT
Sweden Democrats with their extremist views in second place.......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 12, 2022 10:14:15 GMT
The wonders of proportional representation I actually agree with you, and in the UK putting political allegiances to one side it would create another issue for Labour in it's current form. Centrism and the status quo generally only help those who can afford it, with no real alternative on the left, those that want change will lurch to the right. PR wouldn't be the saviour that many think it would be.......
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Post by musik on Sept 12, 2022 11:01:14 GMT
Sweden Democrats with their extremist views in second place....... 5.6% in 2010, I believe. They might be our largest political party in 2030. It shouldn't come as a surprise. Keep in mind, they're placed to the right in that picture since noone knows where to put them, but it's more of a in the middle positioned party. At least before M the Conservatives and KD Christ Democrats, which I see nowadays as the party far away to the right.
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Post by dexter97 on Sept 12, 2022 13:19:44 GMT
The wonders of proportional representation I actually agree with you, and in the UK putting political allegiances to one side it would create another issue for Labour in it's current form. Centrism and the status quo generally only help those who can afford it, with no real alternative on the left, those that want change will lurch to the right. PR wouldn't be the saviour that many think it would be....... PR isn’t about securing a result for my ‘team’, it’s about making sure that everyone’s voice is heard. It’ll never be perfect and it’ll throw up problematic results, but IMHO, nothing is more problematic than a ‘winner takes all’ system that produces a massive parliamentary majority for a party with barely 40% of the popular vote. Labour would undoubtedly lose some of their share under PR, as would the Tories, and that’s no bad thing. There’d likely be a term or two of chaos while they all get used to how to deal with the outcomes, but ultimately, they’d have to learn to work more collaboratively and legislate in the interests of the majority, not for the benefit of a few swing-voters in marginal seats. I don’t believe the rise of right wing populism has anything to do with a lack of alternative on the left. Nationalism and authoritarianism usually do well when times are hard and people default to blaming the ‘others’. I’m quite interested in Musik’s informed view of the Sweden Democrats. It seems to me they’re overtly racist, but in contrast to the likes of UKIP, not all that right-wing economically.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 12, 2022 13:34:36 GMT
I actually agree with you, and in the UK putting political allegiances to one side it would create another issue for Labour in it's current form. Centrism and the status quo generally only help those who can afford it, with no real alternative on the left, those that want change will lurch to the right. PR wouldn't be the saviour that many think it would be....... PR isn’t about securing a result for my ‘team’, it’s about making sure that everyone’s voice is heard. It’ll never be perfect and it’ll throw up problematic results, but IMHO, nothing is more problematic than a ‘winner takes all’ system that produces a massive parliamentary majority for a party with barely 40% of the popular vote. Labour would undoubtedly lose some of their share under PR, as would the Tories, and that’s no bad thing. There’d likely be a term or two of chaos while they all get used to how to deal with the outcomes, but ultimately, they’d have to learn to work more collaboratively and legislate in the interests of the majority, not for the benefit of a few swing-voters in marginal seats. I don’t believe the rise of right wing populism has anything to do with a lack of alternative on the left. Nationalism and authoritarianism usually do well when times are hard and people default to blaming the ‘others’. I’m quite interested in Musik’s informed view of the Sweden Democrats. It seems to me they’re overtly racist, but in contrast to the likes of UKIP, not all that right-wing economically. I wouldn't be totally against PR depending which form of it was proposed, I just firmly believe that a better alternative would be a democratic socialist government under FPTP would be both achievable and the best thing for those in this country that need a leg up the most. Difficult yes, but achievable. I'm not saying you think this but a lot of people I speak to think PR would be some silver bullet to tackle all our problems.........
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 12, 2022 14:09:10 GMT
PR isn’t about securing a result for my ‘team’, it’s about making sure that everyone’s voice is heard. It’ll never be perfect and it’ll throw up problematic results, but IMHO, nothing is more problematic than a ‘winner takes all’ system that produces a massive parliamentary majority for a party with barely 40% of the popular vote. Labour would undoubtedly lose some of their share under PR, as would the Tories, and that’s no bad thing. There’d likely be a term or two of chaos while they all get used to how to deal with the outcomes, but ultimately, they’d have to learn to work more collaboratively and legislate in the interests of the majority, not for the benefit of a few swing-voters in marginal seats. I don’t believe the rise of right wing populism has anything to do with a lack of alternative on the left. Nationalism and authoritarianism usually do well when times are hard and people default to blaming the ‘others’. I’m quite interested in Musik’s informed view of the Sweden Democrats. It seems to me they’re overtly racist, but in contrast to the likes of UKIP, not all that right-wing economically. I wouldn't be totally against PR depending which form of it was proposed, I just firmly believe that a better alternative would be a democratic socialist government under FPTP would be both achievable and the best thing for those in this country that need a leg up the most. Difficult yes, but achievable. I'm not saying you think this but a lot of people I speak to think PR would be some silver bullet to tackle all our problems......... I would suggest those that think pr is the silver bullet Tend to be the people who repeatedly fail to achieve there choice of government It’s a tad like throwing the toys out of a pram change the rules change the rules strop The last three times I can remember coalition / supply deal The lib / lab pact led to thatcher The Tory / lib coalition led to Cameron promising a brexit referendum The Tory / DUP well that led to Johnson selling out Northern Ireland None of which I would suggest was the original intention of the minor partners voters intentions PR may give you a sniff of the barmaids apron you might not like the dregs contained
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Post by musik on Sept 13, 2022 2:00:19 GMT
The definitive result comes on Thursday. It looks like it will be 175-174 to the right side though, since the votes from abroad usually are conservative votes. Notice, only 40% of those people do vote.
The Conservative party M have started their secret talks with representatives from the other political parties The Sweden Democrats SD, The Christ Democrats KD and The Liberals L.
It will be changes. They've promised to focus on five areas.
1) Harder punishment (that's why they probably won The Election in the first place). 2) Lower energy prices (the second reason). 3) Less or no immigration for a very long time. A returning "home"-policy for all prisoners not born in Sweden and for all who wants to go back. 4) Shorter queues to health care. Run by the state instead of the regions. 5) More nuclear power and lower prices on petrol and diesel.
There are several things that worries me. I don't and have never seen nuclear power as the solution to our energy problems. It's like swiping all the dust under the carpet. They can't change the fact it takes 100.000(!!!) years to get the shit product left from the produced nuclear power energy destroyed. Even if they use what they call "new modern nuclear power", whatever that is, fusion energy(?), there will be things left they will have to put deep in the ground. Wind power isn't the solution 100% either. I would personally have prefered more of sun energy and water energy. This is tricky though. Lower prices on petrol doesn't necessarily make the environment or climate better. People "have to" use the car isn't always an explanation. Sometimes we have to change what we have to do. Not in panic at this moment perhaps, but in the future, ceteris paribus.
They will probably take away the help to authors (author's money) and artists and to musicians and others; help they could get from the state to work in the culture sector. The right wing parties see this sector's products as any other products. However, sometimes you can't do that. It's not like any market. They have also plans regarding making lists of what people should listen to and read, the swedish heritage. Who decides this selection? Will it be more difficult to get the hands on literature from other countries?
The rent prices haven't been in focus this Election 2022. But they (apart from the Sweden Democrats) are fond of market prices they say. This worries me the most! Especially the Liberals seem to be mentally disturbed here. The former L leader Leijonborg said he wanted to see rent increases from 5000 to 22000 SEK per month for small apartments (50 m²) in our larger cities. I have followed this debate for several years and haven't seen one printed beneficial reason for an increase. Yesterday out on the street here I saw a poster with the L leader saying "We will give you the apartment you want NOW". What he really meant was this: We will increase the rental cost with so f@cking much, several hundred percent, so people can't afford to stay, then YOU - with all the money - could have the appartment you've always wanted, NOW - instead of waiting in a queue for 15 years. More homeless people? Do they care about them?
I'm not sure the queues to health care automatically will be shorter if the state are responsible instead of the regions. The solutions lies in a healthier population and more doctors and hospitals.
Will we get a more united nation, or will they put group against group in the population even more? You can't have a football team and then ignore playing the ball to the wing backs.
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Post by musik on Sept 14, 2022 9:58:05 GMT
The Result of the National Election in this country up in the north will be revealed this Wednesday evening. Then the authority Länsstyrelsen will control everything once more.
The Left side need 193.501 of the 350.000 votes still to be counted to win.
Atm Left side 174 mandates Right side 175 mandates
🤠
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 14, 2022 13:13:30 GMT
The Result of the National Election in this country up in the north will be revealed this Wednesday evening. Then the authority Länsstyrelsen will control everything once more. The Left side need 193.501 of the 350.000 votes still to be counted to win. Atm Left side 174 mandates Right side 175 mandates 🤠 Are there no centre parties? Or do they have to define themselves as left or right? That cannot be good for democracy as it means you cannot as a party take the best bits of the left and the best bits of the right and stand on those policies.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 14, 2022 13:40:46 GMT
At least it puts to bed the myth that all was well in Sweden with their centre left government. Sweden (ironically along with cuddly Jacinda in NZ) were about the only reference points for the left when asked where a left wing government is succeeding.
Clearly both answers were always nonsense and Sweden has some huge issues around immigration, housing etc that the people are sick and tired of. In much the same way, Jacinda is on a mission to leave her post as the most unpopular leader in New Zealand's history after implementing one of the most bizarre totalitarian shutting down of society ever seen in a civilised "Western" society and subsequently totally failing the economy, livelihoods and just about everything else.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 14, 2022 14:35:45 GMT
At least it puts to bed the myth that all was well in Sweden with their centre left government. Sweden (ironically along with cuddly Jacinda in NZ) were about the only reference points for the left when asked where a left wing government is succeeding. Clearly both answers were always nonsense and Sweden has some huge issues around immigration, housing etc that the people are sick and tired of. In much the same way, Jacinda is on a mission to leave her post as the most unpopular leader in New Zealand's history after implementing one of the most bizarre totalitarian shutting down of society ever seen in a civilised "Western" society and subsequently totally failing the economy, livelihoods and just about everything else. Portugal says hi........
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2022 14:53:27 GMT
At least it puts to bed the myth that all was well in Sweden with their centre left government. Sweden (ironically along with cuddly Jacinda in NZ) were about the only reference points for the left when asked where a left wing government is succeeding. Clearly both answers were always nonsense and Sweden has some huge issues around immigration, housing etc that the people are sick and tired of. In much the same way, Jacinda is on a mission to leave her post as the most unpopular leader in New Zealand's history after implementing one of the most bizarre totalitarian shutting down of society ever seen in a civilised "Western" society and subsequently totally failing the economy, livelihoods and just about everything else. Portugal says hi........ I would suggest that things are not particularly perfect in Portugal The big difference is the still unwillingness of the people to vote right wing As in living memory of many was the right wing dictatorship of the early seventies
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 14, 2022 14:57:19 GMT
I would suggest that things are not particularly perfect in Portugal The big difference is the still unwillingness of the people to vote right wing As in living memory of many was the right wing dictatorship of the early seventies Things aren’t perfect anywhere…….
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2022 15:00:06 GMT
I would suggest that things are not particularly perfect in Portugal The big difference is the still unwillingness of the people to vote right wing As in living memory of many was the right wing dictatorship of the early seventies Things aren’t perfect anywhere……. I totally agree I was merely pointing out using Portugal as a example There has to be consideration given to there inbuilt preference for left of centre politics
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 14, 2022 15:29:05 GMT
Things aren’t perfect anywhere……. I totally agree I was merely pointing out using Portugal as a example There has to be consideration given to there inbuilt preference for left of centre politics It’s more the fact that they’ve been quite radical with certain policies, that’s something a lot of governments just don’t do enough of…..
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Post by musik on Sept 14, 2022 17:04:53 GMT
The Result of the National Election in this country up in the north will be revealed this Wednesday evening. Then the authority Länsstyrelsen will control everything once more. The Left side need 193.501 of the 350.000 votes still to be counted to win. Atm Left side 174 mandates Right side 175 mandates 🤠 Are there no centre parties? Or do they have to define themselves as left or right? That cannot be good for democracy as it means you cannot as a party take the best bits of the left and the best bits of the right and stand on those policies. There are two small, C and L. And in my lifetime it's the first time they define themselves so clear Left and Right respectively.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 14, 2022 20:57:16 GMT
I totally agree I was merely pointing out using Portugal as a example There has to be consideration given to there inbuilt preference for left of centre politics It’s more the fact that they’ve been quite radical with certain policies, that’s something a lot of governments just don’t do enough of….. Wait till big Ron DeSantis takes control of the US, then you'll get radical. Exciting times ahead. The rise against the ghastly Liberal left is well and truly on. 😊
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Post by musik on Sept 14, 2022 21:11:46 GMT
The Right side have declared themselves as winners, 176-173 on the National level.
It's not definitive until this weekend though.
On the region level and in the municipal election where I live, the Left side has won.
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Post by andystokey on Sept 15, 2022 8:27:40 GMT
The Right side have declared themselves as winners, 176-173 on the National level. It's not definitive until this weekend though. On the region level and in the municipal election where I live, the Left side has won. Bloc politics seems to have ousted the party with the highest number of votes. I suppose only time will tell if the Swedish Democrats, born from a neo nazi party, have changed or just polished their image.
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Post by musik on Sept 15, 2022 9:08:30 GMT
The Right side have declared themselves as winners, 176-173 on the National level. It's not definitive until this weekend though. On the region level and in the municipal election where I live, the Left side has won. Bloc politics seems to have ousted the party with the highest number of votes. I suppose only time will tell if the Swedish Democrats, born from a neo nazi party, have changed or just polished their image. Yes, bloc politics work this way; That's why the Social Democrats no longer rule. 176-173 was the final result. Only three districts left to count today. Around the country, within four hours the police shot three people who acted with suspicion yesterday. No more info. A sign? SD have erased members from their lists. Therefore Alternative for Sweden was created, another but much smaller political party.
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Post by OldStokie on Sept 15, 2022 9:42:27 GMT
What surprises me is how ignorant we in the UK were about Swedish politics. It's an eye-opener to see how wrong we were to think everything was hunky-dory in that fine country. Best of luck, Musik. I think you might need it in the future.
OS.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2022 11:18:08 GMT
What surprises me is how ignorant we in the UK were about Swedish politics. It's an eye-opener to see how wrong we were to think everything was hunky-dory in that fine country. Best of luck, Musik. I think you might need it in the future. OS. Always been a country of contradictions Up untill the mid seventies they were compulsory sterilising people considered in there eyes as sub standard
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