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Post by Bod on Jul 13, 2022 9:53:20 GMT
I’ve treated the TdF as a series of individual races for years now. I sit back, shout expletives at Enric Mas (sandbagging motherfucker that he is) and forget about the GC if possible. In isolation, today’s stage was decent. A number of good calibre riders attacking at various points and a balls out uphill finish. I’ll take that. I agree to a certain extent. I suppose for me it's just not the same without serious Sky/Ineos involvement in the G.C. There have been a few decent individual rides (today being a fine example), but I still watch most stages and think about how it's affecting the G.C. I suppose I just want Ineos to dominate in the way that Sky used to., being a British team and all that. Looks like those days are long gone though. I’m not anti-Sky/Ineos but I’m not invested in them. My interest in cycling was from the early/mid-80’s so I’m more drawn towards the Italians, Spanish, Dutch and Belgians. In this TdF, in terms of who I would actually like to win it, it would be Yates or Roglic with a podium for Caruso. I’ve put the crack pipe away now though.
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 13, 2022 10:33:44 GMT
I agree to a certain extent. I suppose for me it's just not the same without serious Sky/Ineos involvement in the G.C. There have been a few decent individual rides (today being a fine example), but I still watch most stages and think about how it's affecting the G.C. I suppose I just want Ineos to dominate in the way that Sky used to., being a British team and all that. Looks like those days are long gone though. I’m not anti-Sky/Ineos but I’m not invested in them. My interest in cycling was from the early/mid-80’s so I’m more drawn towards the Italians, Spanish, Dutch and Belgians. In this TdF, in terms of who I would actually like to win it, it would be Yates or Roglic with a podium for Caruso. I’ve put the crack pipe away now though. I also started my interest in the 80's with Kelly and Roche, but really got into it more when "Big Mig" Indurain came to prominence in the 90's. Even though Armstrong dominated for so long I never liked him even at the time. I liked Jan Ulrich, Marco Pantani and countless others but at that time the Brits were never really involved until Chris Boardman came along. When Sky appeared it was great that a British team could be at the pinnacle of the sport. The current crop of top young talent MVDP, WVA, Evenepoel, Pogacar, etc etc bodes well for the sport for the next few years, even if some of the Grand Tour racing doesn't exactly get you off your seat.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jul 13, 2022 13:02:09 GMT
Decided to have an hour before my appt this morning. Wow. Cant wait to get home again
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 13, 2022 15:06:17 GMT
Well, THAT CERTAINLY WASN'T BORING !
What a stage, and some real racing at last ! Tremendous ride by Vingegaard and Pogacar actually is human.
Should be interesting to see what happens tomorrow on Alpe d'Huez - who's going to recover quickest from today.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jul 13, 2022 20:19:05 GMT
Going to be some people hurting tomorrow.
Back in the day it would have been strychnine and brandy for breakfast. I still may….but I don’t think you can get away with it on the Tour these days.
Danish fish packer looked, as some may say on here, that he was blowing out of his arse.
Some oddity. Due to the golf we won’t get tomorrows and Fridays stages until 8pm your local time tomorrow. At least I won’t have to worry about spoilers.
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Post by Bod on Jul 13, 2022 20:48:14 GMT
Well, some stages need no describing. Clucking bell. Recorded and just finished watching 3 hours of it. I’m knackered from watching it. Pogacar cracking reminded me of Indurain to Les Arcs in 96. Head bobbing, shoulders rocking. A bonafide crack. Now. The TdF starts here 😂 Tomorrow? I have no idea what will happen. There are so many variable. Exciting though. Roglic may have lost a lot of time but Vingegaard owes him massively for what he did earlier in the stage. He softened Pogacar up and sacrificed himself.
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Post by Bod on Jul 13, 2022 23:11:14 GMT
Stage 12. Briancon - Alpe d’Huez 165km. 3 HC climbs.
Uphill almost straight from the off, taking on the Galibier from the ‘easier’ side, then a 45km descent (with a small climb thrown in) before the Croix de Fer, which is 29km but at a fairly shallow gradient, followed by a 40km of descending and valley road to Bourg d’ Oisans before tackling the final climb to Alpe d’Huez. The final ascent Is 13.8km, but eases off (relatively) at 3km to go. Regardless of what the cycling purists (ie, previous wankers) think, Alpe d’Huez is pretty much the most famous climb in professional cycling. There are longer, harder and more challenging climbs, but this has the ‘It’ factor.
Haven’t got a clue what will happen really, aside from a breakaway going and being pulled back before the finish. Some of the mountain jersey contenders may fancy their chances of picking up points on the first couple of climbs, so will have eyes on the getting in the break, but Barguil may not have functional legs tomorrow.
The GC issue is now fascinating. If Pogacar just got the hunger knock, then he will attack tomorrow and make people hurt. If it wasn’t that and was something that will impact on him tomorrow, then expect some tentative attacks on him to see how he responds and then a bit of a free for all of he seems vulnerable. However, the chances are that not many people will have fully recovered so it could be a matter of who is the least knackered rather than anything else. Ineos are exceptionally good at ensuring that their riders ride to data, so in theory, Thomas should not have gone too far into the red on the previous stage and may be able to cope with another gruelling day. This stage cannot live up to stage 11, but Pogacar’s loss of time means that so many riders will have aspirations of doing something big. I’ll gamble and say Pogacar wins the stage and moves back into the top 3 and Gaudu struggles.
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 14, 2022 4:45:15 GMT
It's the day after a killer stage and it's Bastille Day. Does that mean Bardet or Gaudu (or even Pinot) are going to try to win for "la France" ? Pogacar has surely got to try to recoup some of his huge time loss yesterday but will he and his team have recovered enough ? Will Vingegaard be able to mark all his main contenders, after all he's over 2 minutes ahead on G.C. I don't think G is as good as he was in 2018 but maybe he can sniff a chance of another win here. I just hope Quintana doesn't win !
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Post by Bod on Jul 14, 2022 11:25:47 GMT
It's the day after a killer stage and it's Bastille Day. Does that mean Bardet or Gaudu (or even Pinot) are going to try to win for "la France" ? Pogacar has surely got to try to recoup some of his huge time loss yesterday but will he and his team have recovered enough ? Will Vingegaard be able to mark all his main contenders, after all he's over 2 minutes ahead on G.C. I don't think G is as good as he was in 2018 but maybe he can sniff a chance of another win here. I just hope Quintana doesn't win ! Pinot. Bardet and Gaudu don’t have the freedom and they both looked on the rivet yesterday. I worry a bit about heavy back to back days for Gaudu, but hope to be proved wrong. Bastille Day on the Alpe will be crazy. If somehow a Frenchman is leading up there, it could be unreal. I can see Mollema and Caruso and a host of random home favourites trying something but in the bigger picture, Pogacar going eyeballs out from the Bourg D’Oisans would be quite something. Jumbo now have to control the race, but other people have to take the fight to them and after how strong they were collectively yesterday that’s going be a huge task.
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 14, 2022 16:22:34 GMT
Get In - Chapeau Tom Pidcock ! Great ride and youngest ever winner on Alpe d'Huez. Great result for Ineos as well.
Good to see Chris Froome riding so well. Jumbo Visma look very strong don't they. There'd have to be a major meltdown for Vingegaard not to win the TDF but Pogacar did seem to have recovered after yesterday's catastrophe.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 14, 2022 17:01:27 GMT
Get In - Chapeau Tom Pidcock ! Great ride and youngest ever winner on Alpe d'Huez. Great result for Ineos as well. Good to see Chris Froome riding so well. Jumbo Visma look very strong don't they. There'd have to be a major meltdown for Vingegaard not to win the TDF but Pogacar did seem to have recovered after yesterday's catastrophe. Can't believe this at 22 and a Brit to win on Alp d'Huez. Reminiscing about ANC Halfords, Kelly, Roche, Yates and Robert Millar ( now Philippa). Its difficult to imagine as a boy on my Swinno (which I still have btw) days like this could even be possible. How things have changed in 40 years. This kid is an absolute prodigy he could basically win anything when he hits his Grand Tour peak age. Just brilliant 👏 👌 😀 👍
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Post by Bod on Jul 14, 2022 20:22:08 GMT
If yesterday was a full assault by the heavy guns, today was attritional. TJV look very strong but the Pyrenees are a different beast altogether and so let’s see what happens there. Pogacar threw a few jabs but I think that was more to see where has in terms of his form rather than anything with the aim of being a knockout. Stunning ride by Pidcock and my man Meintjes has abandoned stealth mode with success. Another great ride by Thomas and seeing Froome able to produce some form was a sight to see. I’ve seen some outstanding descenders but what Pidcock did there was eye-wateringly impressive. 109km/h is some speed.
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Post by Bod on Jul 14, 2022 21:08:24 GMT
Get In - Chapeau Tom Pidcock ! Great ride and youngest ever winner on Alpe d'Huez. Great result for Ineos as well. This kid is an absolute prodigy he could basically win anything when he hits his Grand Tour peak age. Just brilliant 👏 👌 😀 👍 I’m not quite so convinced just yet until I see what happens over the course of the full three weeks and then another GT next year. I think I’d still rather see him as a Classics rider who can challenge than a GT guy who is aiming for top five but it’s still early days. Today though, he was supreme and a joy to watch.
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Post by Bod on Jul 16, 2022 10:41:22 GMT
About as standard a TdF breakaway day as can be. Pedersen is classy and strong as fuck and getting in a break with him is a blessing and a curse. At the minute, Ewan could win the lottery and get run over as he went to claim the prize.
Today’s stage to Mende is the one I’ve been waiting for. This will probably come back to bite me but I don’t think that there can be a dull stage on the course they use for the Mende stage. Heavy roads and prime ambush territory. Would make for a great one day race. In 95 this was the only time in his career that Indurain hit the panic button and called in years of favours from other teams to chase down Jalabert, Mauri and Stephens.
5 categorised climbs along the route culminating in the airfield at Mende. Nasty, hard roads and a sting in the tale at the end. So many possibilities today as it’s a hard stage to control and if a team decides to try to properly drill it, a lot of riders will suffer.
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 16, 2022 11:46:17 GMT
I remember watching Steve Cummings snatching victory at Mende (2015 ?) after riding straight past Pinot and Bardet (I think) who were cat and mousing. He's Ineos Sporting Director now so it'd be a blast from the past if he could orchestrate an Ineos win today.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jul 16, 2022 15:08:52 GMT
Balls the size of cantaloupes.
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 16, 2022 15:39:46 GMT
Brutal conditions, 40c air temp, goodness knows how hot the road surface was.
Great ride by Bling. Did you see the photo of the burnt out police car ?
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Post by Bod on Jul 16, 2022 18:01:38 GMT
Brutal conditions, 40c air temp, goodness knows how hot the road surface was. Great ride by Bling. Did you see the photo of the burnt out police car ? Bit of T-Cut and that car will be fine.
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Post by Bod on Jul 16, 2022 18:03:42 GMT
Balls the size of cantaloupes. A perfect description. Attacking from a strong group, at that distance to go, being caught on the final climb then actually digging in to hold Bettoil then pass him was top quality race craft and sheer, yes, bollocks.
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Post by Bod on Jul 16, 2022 22:52:22 GMT
It seems like we now potentially have a race on our hands. 2nd - 8th places are only separated by 2 mins and 2 seconds. The key remaining stages are the 2 summit finishes, the time trial and the stage to Foix which includes the climb to le Mur de Péguère which is a complete bastard with some 18% sections before a long descent to the finish. It may not be a summit finish but potentially decisive. Pogacar looks like he simply had a bad day when he cracked or perhaps the hunger knock. All things being equal, he is a stronger time triallist than Vingegaard but he can’t rely on that, so he has no choice but to attack at some point on those three road stages. I think (probably incorrectly) that Pogacar would rather finish 7th having blown up trying to distance Vingegaard than settle for a conservative second place.
It is now set up really well for a final week that could be pretty special.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 17, 2022 1:30:15 GMT
It seems like we now potentially have a race on our hands. 2nd - 8th places are only separated by 2 mins and 2 seconds. The key remaining stages are the 2 summit finishes, the time trial and the stage to Foix which includes the climb to le Mur de Péguère which is a complete bastard with some 18% sections before a long descent to the finish. It may not be a summit finish but potentially decisive. Pogacar looks like he simply had a bad day when he cracked or perhaps the hunger knock. All things being equal, he is a stronger time triallist than Vingegaard but he can’t rely on that, so he has no choice but to attack at some point on those three road stages. I think (probably incorrectly) that Pogacar would rather finish 7th having blown up trying to distance Vingegaard than settle for a conservative second place. It is now set up really well for a final week that could be pretty special. I love that description, loads better to see racers who take the risk. Missed the TdF recently, with mates at a mountain bike race near Lake Tahoe. It was pretty brutal mid afternoon but still not as nasty as France right now! My cycling mates think Thomas is an outsider by going slow and steady. Thoughts?
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Post by Bod on Jul 17, 2022 9:04:29 GMT
It seems like we now potentially have a race on our hands. 2nd - 8th places are only separated by 2 mins and 2 seconds. The key remaining stages are the 2 summit finishes, the time trial and the stage to Foix which includes the climb to le Mur de Péguère which is a complete bastard with some 18% sections before a long descent to the finish. It may not be a summit finish but potentially decisive. Pogacar looks like he simply had a bad day when he cracked or perhaps the hunger knock. All things being equal, he is a stronger time triallist than Vingegaard but he can’t rely on that, so he has no choice but to attack at some point on those three road stages. I think (probably incorrectly) that Pogacar would rather finish 7th having blown up trying to distance Vingegaard than settle for a conservative second place. It is now set up really well for a final week that could be pretty special. I love that description, loads better to see racers who take the risk. Missed the TdF recently, with mates at a mountain bike race near Lake Tahoe. It was pretty brutal mid afternoon but still not as nasty as France right now! My cycling mates think Thomas is an outsider by going slow and steady. Thoughts? Leaving aside crashes, COVID withdrawals, etc and on the assumption that everyone remains in the race I don’t really see any way that Thomas wins. I think it’s more likely that he is looking at holding that 3rd place as Bardet knows that he has to put time into Thomas before the TT if he can. Unlike Pogacar, Thomas has little to gain by even attempting to go off the front, the onus is on Bardet to make the move.
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Post by Bod on Jul 17, 2022 11:34:02 GMT
Three non-starters today. Roglic - has the Vuelta soon and in his interview with Slovenian TV this morning he said ‘If you think I’m doing domestique deluxe work through the Pyrenees you can fuck off up the Vale.’
Clarke - has won a stage and so his job is done. Going to go back to his sheltered accommodation for a while as it’s bingo week.
Cort - couldn’t have done much more and was allowed to leave the race to audition for work as a moustache model.
Clarke and Cort may also have COViD but I think that’s just a cover.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jul 17, 2022 11:46:02 GMT
Three non-starters today. Roglic - has the Vuelta soon and in his interview with Slovenian TV this morning he said ‘It you think I’m doing domestique deluxe work through the Pyrenees you can fuck off up the Vale.’ Clarke - has won a stage and so his job is done. Going to go back to his sheltered accommodation for a while as it’s bingo week. Cort - couldn’t have done much more and was allowed to leave the race to audition for work as a moustache model. Clarke and Cort may also have COViD but I think that’s just a cover. Ha! the old COVID 'go to' excuse.
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Post by Bod on Jul 17, 2022 11:57:13 GMT
Three non-starters today. Roglic - has the Vuelta soon and in his interview with Slovenian TV this morning he said ‘It you think I’m doing domestique deluxe work through the Pyrenees you can fuck off up the Vale.’ Clarke - has won a stage and so his job is done. Going to go back to his sheltered accommodation for a while as it’s bingo week. Cort - couldn’t have done much more and was allowed to leave the race to audition for work as a moustache model. Clarke and Cort may also have COViD but I think that’s just a cover. Ha! the old COVID 'go to' excuse. Back in the good old days gastroenteritis used to suffice. Take a laxative, go and visit your DS and have an evacuation in the corner. Job’s a good un and a week in St Tropez to ‘recover.’ Today, it’s the evolution of excuse-making. It’s Darwinism for athletes.
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Post by deeside2 on Jul 17, 2022 20:25:35 GMT
Jumbo Visma unlucky today - Roglic out, Kruijswijk broken collar bone, and Vingegaard and Benoot both crashed but live on. It must make things more difficult for Vingegaard in the Pyrenees but can Pogacar take advantage and make up the time he lost. He's got to have a go surely.
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Post by Bod on Jul 17, 2022 20:51:16 GMT
Jumbo Visma unlucky today - Roglic out, Kruijswijk broken collar bone, and Vingegaard and Benoot both crashed but live on. It must make things more difficult for Vingegaard in the Pyrenees but can Pogacar take advantage and make up the time he lost. He's got to have a go surely. I don’t think that Pogacar has a defensive mindset so if he doesn’t attack it will be because he’s physically unable. I said in a previous post that I think he’d rather risk it and go for broke than finish second. Jumbo suddenly look far, far more vulnerable. WVA is a superhuman but he is not (yet) a mountain climber in the purest sense and whilst Roglic is a big loss, Kruijswijk is massive. He was in top form, looked rock steady and has that engine for long climbs to high altitudes. I know you’re not a fan but I think Quintana is going to have a big role to play. He won’t win but I do wonder what will happen if he has the form to attack repeatedly, as he will have to be followed and that could really hurt someone like Gaudu or even Thomas.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 17, 2022 20:53:48 GMT
Jumbo Visma unlucky today - Roglic out, Kruijswijk broken collar bone, and Vingegaard and Benoot both crashed but live on. It must make things more difficult for Vingegaard in the Pyrenees but can Pogacar take advantage and make up the time he lost. He's got to have a go surely. I don’t think that Pogacar has a defensive mindset so if he doesn’t attack it will be because he’s physically unable. I said in a previous post that I think he’d rather risk it and go for broke than finish second. Jumbo suddenly look far, far more vulnerable. WVA is a superhuman but he is not (yet) a mountain climber in the purest sense and whilst Roglic is a big loss, Kruijswijk is massive. He was in top form, looked rock steady and has that engine for long climbs to high altitudes. I know you’re not a fan but I think Quintana is going to have a big role to play. He won’t win but I do wonder what will happen if he has the form to attack repeatedly, as he will have to be followed and that could really hurt someone like Gaudu or even Thomas. Thomas would rather finish 3rd than go for broke. All it takes is for him to dig deep in a stage on pog bad day and he’s in with a sniff. I honestly believe he’s done as a contender now. Good enough for a regular top ten with a good team around him for a couple of years . IG want more than that
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Post by Bod on Jul 17, 2022 23:16:15 GMT
I don’t think that Pogacar has a defensive mindset so if he doesn’t attack it will be because he’s physically unable. I said in a previous post that I think he’d rather risk it and go for broke than finish second. Jumbo suddenly look far, far more vulnerable. WVA is a superhuman but he is not (yet) a mountain climber in the purest sense and whilst Roglic is a big loss, Kruijswijk is massive. He was in top form, looked rock steady and has that engine for long climbs to high altitudes. I know you’re not a fan but I think Quintana is going to have a big role to play. He won’t win but I do wonder what will happen if he has the form to attack repeatedly, as he will have to be followed and that could really hurt someone like Gaudu or even Thomas. Thomas would rather finish 3rd than go for broke. All it takes is for him to dig deep in a stage on pog bad day and he’s in with a sniff. I honestly believe he’s done as a contender now. Good enough for a regular top ten with a good team around him for a couple of years . IG want more than that Oh, I completely agree re Thomas. I was meaning that Thomas’ potential podium place could be threatened. I’ve no clue what his goals will be for next year and beyond as he has the Ineos contract but they will theoretically have Bernal (health permitting), Carapaz (if he stays,) Yates and Rodriguez. At the moment I’m not including Pidcock there in regards to being a three week contender. Pinning hopes on him at this time of his career would do him no favours and worth keeping in mind that his peak years will heavily overlap with Pogacar. Vingegaard, Bernal and potentially Ayuso. As a team, over the past 3 years, look at what they have won in terms of GT’s and throw in a slight change in focus and a more serious outlook on the importance of one-day races, I’m not certain how Thomas fits. A reliable top-5 performer is not really what they are about. The odd thing being that there are a host of teams who would love to have someone who could be precisely that ‘Steady Eddie’ rider.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jul 18, 2022 15:24:07 GMT
Thomas is so much of a diesel these days I can't see any situation in which he can attack the guys above him on GC other than if they have already cracked - difficult to see Pog and Jonas both being in that place on the same stage. I may be inventing things here but think he said earlier in the year he was moving into a road captain role, so for him to be on the podium age 36 isn't to be sniffed at even if it isn't really where Ineos want to be.
Hoping for the final week that Pog (and maybe Thomas) are within a minute of Vingegaard going into the ITT to make it interesting. Kind of liking Jumbo being two men down after yesterday despite it being tough luck for Roglic and Kruiswijk, otherwise I just saw them suffocating the race.
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