|
Post by nottsover60 on Jun 7, 2022 10:15:16 GMT
Get what you're saying but my point is that we are not in a perilous state financially and I would favour keeping Tymon rather than creating another gap to fill and look at frees and loans or young players who may only cost hundreds of thousand rather than millions. I don't always believe the line that we have to sell to buy either. Sure we can't spend millions but we don't want to go round saying we've got money to spend as we are keen to ensure other clubs realise we are in the same boat as every other club and they don't start raising the asking price. In all honesty last year's squad should have been good enough for at least the play offs. Perfect in a perfect world. You are also completely dismissing the notion that the player himself might be all over wanting to go to a massive football club. Possibly but I do get the feeling that for some strange reason, despite the way his early career went here, Tymon has a real affinity with the club and at just 23 has time on his hands to move to a bigger club. If he moves now and fails to get into the team there then his career could be put back two or three years and he may never make it to the Premier.
|
|
|
Post by thewonderstuff on Jun 7, 2022 10:30:14 GMT
One of the very few reasons I was looking forward to next season was to see how Tymon develped. He was our best player for large parts of last seasons shit show.
|
|
|
Post by medwaypotter on Jun 7, 2022 12:20:01 GMT
Might of done 15 years ago, not a chance these days. Why not? Prices have collapsed. We could sign 2/3 players that make the squad better for that. 2 players will not transform this team
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 12:27:17 GMT
Why not? Prices have collapsed. We could sign 2/3 players that make the squad better for that. 2 players will not transform this team I think a striker and central midfielder would make a massive difference to this team tbh.
|
|
|
Post by tommycarlsberg on Jun 7, 2022 12:32:38 GMT
2 players will not transform this team I think a striker and central midfielder would make a massive difference to this team tbh. Who are you playing left back though? And right back?
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 12:34:02 GMT
We’ll see. I don’t really get how a person can in one post say we definitely don’t have any wiggle room for bringing in players without selling one of our better prospects. Yet in other posts completely dismiss our finances as being limiting enough to excuse our finishing positions being on a par with our financial room for manoeuvre. Our finances are able to compete with all bar parachute clubs. If they were that keen on spending money they’d find a way. The way is by selling a player. Really not sure how anyone doesn't get the position we're in with money by now? You’d think people would get tired of stating their opinion as if it’s a fact. You’ve no more idea how much the club could squeeze by ffp than anyone else absolutely zip.
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Jun 7, 2022 12:35:42 GMT
TWIST (not as I believe anyone is paying that) We could get two good fullbacks for that money to fit a flat back four. I like Tymon as a wingback but I don't really like that system. I don’t believe a back four is in the manager’s plans, which means we need at least one more starting center back, a backup center back and two wing backs. We’ll need two center backs if Souttar hasn’t recovered and the best we have left is good but 40 years old. That formation is much harder to establish than a back four because good wing backs are expensive and hard to come by but O’Neill seems obstinately insistent on that being the way forward. Tymon was a good wing back until the opposition worked out his moves and he is generally easy to defend. He did put in some good crosses and scored a couple of good goals but his overall productivity is poor.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 12:39:52 GMT
I think a striker and central midfielder would make a massive difference to this team tbh. Who are you playing left back though? And right back? A new player. We should be able to get 3/4 in without selling anyone on frees and loans, this just adds to that. I think Tymon would be a minimal loss and would actually allow us to play with a back 4.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 12:40:49 GMT
The way is by selling a player. Really not sure how anyone doesn't get the position we're in with money by now? You’d think people would get tired of stating their opinion as if it’s a fact. You’ve no more idea how much the club could squeeze by ffp than anyone else absolutely zip. Ah ok, yeah we'll spend millions without selling anyone and it'll all be fine. Woooo.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 12:45:10 GMT
Why not? Prices have collapsed. We could sign 2/3 players that make the squad better for that. 2 players will not transform this team Constantly playing Tymon won't in any way either
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 12:45:58 GMT
You’d think people would get tired of stating their opinion as if it’s a fact. You’ve no more idea how much the club could squeeze by ffp than anyone else absolutely zip. Ah ok, yeah we'll spend millions without selling anyone and it'll all be fine. Woooo. Just the problem with you, you’ve got to post as if you know one way or the other for certain and you just don’t. We might come up with some money to spend without selling we might not. I haven’t got a scooby and neither have you.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 12:52:00 GMT
Ah ok, yeah we'll spend millions without selling anyone and it'll all be fine. Woooo. Just the problem with you, you’ve got to post as if you know one way or the other for certain and you just don’t. We might come up with some money to spend without selling we might not. I haven’t got a scooby and neither have you. Its pretty safe to say we have no or small wiggle room. You don't have to know much to see that will be the case. Now stop being so angry.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 12:54:57 GMT
Just the problem with you, you’ve got to post as if you know one way or the other for certain and you just don’t. We might come up with some money to spend without selling we might not. I haven’t got a scooby and neither have you. Its pretty safe to say we have no or small wiggle room. You don't have to know much to see that will be the case. Now stop being so angry. I’m not angry at all I just think people who post their opinion as cast iron certainty are bell ends.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 13:01:01 GMT
Its pretty safe to say we have no or small wiggle room. You don't have to know much to see that will be the case. Now stop being so angry. I’m not angry at all I just think people who post their opinion as cast iron certainty are bell ends. I'm not angry and then goes on to be angry. ok
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 13:03:34 GMT
TWIST (not as I believe anyone is paying that) We could get two good fullbacks for that money to fit a flat back four. I like Tymon as a wingback but I don't really like that system. I don’t believe a back four is in the manager’s plans, which means we need at least one more starting center back, a backup center back and two wing backs. We’ll need two center backs if Souttar hasn’t recovered and the best we have left is good but 40 years old. That formation is much harder to establish than a back four because good wing backs are expensive and hard to come by but O’Neill seems obstinately insistent on that being the way forward. Tymon was a good wing back until the opposition worked out his moves and he is generally easy to defend. He did put in some good crosses and scored a couple of good goals but his overall productivity is poor. I'm convinced he intends to start with a back four but we'll have to wait and see
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jun 7, 2022 13:03:56 GMT
Just the problem with you, you’ve got to post as if you know one way or the other for certain and you just don’t. We might come up with some money to spend without selling we might not. I haven’t got a scooby and neither have you. Its pretty safe to say we have no or small wiggle room. You don't have to know much to see that will be the case. Now stop being so angry. On what basis? The 3 year reporting cycle (4 due to Covid) means 2018/19 drops out, a season we lost £15million in. Assuming we are not sanctioned, we must have broken even so could lose £13 million under the rules in 2022/23. With several high earners having left and pretty much all our transfers written off, provided we strike reasonable deals on Etebo and Afobe, we will have a budget of maybe £30 million for wages and transfers (fees divided by contract length). That should be very competitive - few clubs have owners willing to fund £13 million of losses
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 13:08:19 GMT
Its pretty safe to say we have no or small wiggle room. You don't have to know much to see that will be the case. Now stop being so angry. On what basis? The 3 year reporting cycle (4 due to Covid) means 2018/19 drops out, a season we lost £15million in. Assuming we are not sanctioned, we must have broken even so could lose £13 million under the rules in 2022/23. With several high earners having left and pretty much all our transfers written off, provided we strike reasonable deals on Etebo and Afobe, we will have a budget of maybe £30 million for wages and transfers (fees divided by contract length). That should be very competitive - few clubs have owners willing to fund £13 million of losses There’s not a chance we will have that sort of budget without selling anyone.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 13:27:43 GMT
On what basis? The 3 year reporting cycle (4 due to Covid) means 2018/19 drops out, a season we lost £15million in. Assuming we are not sanctioned, we must have broken even so could lose £13 million under the rules in 2022/23. With several high earners having left and pretty much all our transfers written off, provided we strike reasonable deals on Etebo and Afobe, we will have a budget of maybe £30 million for wages and transfers (fees divided by contract length). That should be very competitive - few clubs have owners willing to fund £13 million of losses There’s not a chance we will have that sort of budget without selling anyone. Oh wise one, could you tell us the max we could possibly spend without selling?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 13:31:55 GMT
There’s not a chance we will have that sort of budget without selling anyone. Oh wise one, could you tell us the max we could possibly spend without selling? 46 pence.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 13:46:19 GMT
Oh wise one, could you tell us the max we could possibly spend without selling? 46 pence. Great...Another Greenacre
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 14:03:18 GMT
Tough one. He’s almost 24 which is still young, if he was 2 years younger I’d definitely say stick. His overall improvement and his flashes of brilliance, combined with his determination, have led me to believe he’s going to become a much better player than he is right now. And he’s one of our better players already. However, from his perspective I think it’s really attractive and if rangers are knocking he might force the issues. 5m with some add on and a sell on fee please. He's only just 23 - born in May. Amazing how long he seems to have been around. To consider letting him leave for £5 million is small minded money grabbing to me. To get a player of his age, experience, ability and potential would cost just as much and would probably not work. To suggest as someone else did that we could get two full backs for that money just smells of accepting mediocrity. Tymon has been very determined to succeed at Stoke - there have been several times when he could have just given up and taken a move to a lesser club. That bodes well for his continued development here and in another couple of years we could have a very good fullback/wingback just about to enter his peak years. I disagree with the opinion that his crossing is poor, it's not consistent but sometimes his crosses are in exactly the right sort of place at the right pace. With coaching I have confidence that he will start hitting those sort of crosses more often and if Brown improves his anticipation they could become a real threat. I also have a theory that friends play well together and I don't think it's a secret that Tymon and Campbell get on well so there could be potential there. Some people are throwing around his assist numbers as a stick to beat him with but the eye test tells you that he should’ve had many more assists the season just gone. When he was on song his ability to play pacey balls into the danger zone was very good. But it’s a two way street and it needs the other attackers to anticipate and attack those situations. In a better team he would’ve got double digit assists IMO. But then there’s the games where he played more passive and wasn’t attacking the full-backs, which I’m sure was partly down to becoming demoralised at the attacking failure to capitalise on him doing his job very well.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 14:13:09 GMT
He's only just 23 - born in May. Amazing how long he seems to have been around. To consider letting him leave for £5 million is small minded money grabbing to me. To get a player of his age, experience, ability and potential would cost just as much and would probably not work. To suggest as someone else did that we could get two full backs for that money just smells of accepting mediocrity. Tymon has been very determined to succeed at Stoke - there have been several times when he could have just given up and taken a move to a lesser club. That bodes well for his continued development here and in another couple of years we could have a very good fullback/wingback just about to enter his peak years. I disagree with the opinion that his crossing is poor, it's not consistent but sometimes his crosses are in exactly the right sort of place at the right pace. With coaching I have confidence that he will start hitting those sort of crosses more often and if Brown improves his anticipation they could become a real threat. I also have a theory that friends play well together and I don't think it's a secret that Tymon and Campbell get on well so there could be potential there. Some people are throwing around his assist numbers as a stick to beat him with but the eye test tells you that he should’ve had many more assists the season just gone. When he was on song his ability to play pacey balls into the danger zone was very good. But it’s a two way street and it needs to other attackers to anticipate and attack those situations. In a better team he would’ve got double digit assists IMO. But then there’s the games where he played more passive and wasn’t attacking the full-backs, which I’m sure was partly down to becoming demoralised at the attacking failure to capitalise on him doing his job very well. Isn't crossing where there's no one just a shit cross? I'm not beating him re assists even semi seriously though but it does make me laugh that he has got just 1 one more than Wilmot. And I do think he shouldn't be crossing if there's no one there.
|
|
berti
Spectator
Posts: 32
|
Post by berti on Jun 7, 2022 14:36:24 GMT
Some people are throwing around his assist numbers as a stick to beat him with but the eye test tells you that he should’ve had many more assists the season just gone. When he was on song his ability to play pacey balls into the danger zone was very good. But it’s a two way street and it needs to other attackers to anticipate and attack those situations. In a better team he would’ve got double digit assists IMO. But then there’s the games where he played more passive and wasn’t attacking the full-backs, which I’m sure was partly down to becoming demoralised at the attacking failure to capitalise on him doing his job very well. Isn't crossing where there's no one just a shit cross? I'm not beating him re assists even semi seriously though but it does make me laugh that he has got just 1 one more than Wilmot. And I do think he shouldn't be crossing if there's no one there. Generally there should always be someone there though (the striker), if he started not crossing the ball and playing it backwards/sideways he would be criticized for that
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 14:37:38 GMT
Isn't crossing where there's no one just a shit cross? I'm not beating him re assists even semi seriously though but it does make me laugh that he has got just 1 one more than Wilmot. And I do think he shouldn't be crossing if there's no one there. Generally there should always be someone there though (the striker), if he started not crossing the ball and playing it backwards/sideways he would be criticized for that But if there isn't then don't cross. It's just losing possession.
|
|
berti
Spectator
Posts: 32
|
Post by berti on Jun 7, 2022 14:49:02 GMT
Generally there should always be someone there though (the striker), if he started not crossing the ball and playing it backwards/sideways he would be criticized for that But if there isn't then don't cross. It's just losing possession. I agree and I don't mind the team keeping possession, I just think unless your striker is coming very deep to influence the play, he should always be in and around the box when a cross comes in. Reference the assist stat, I suppose you are only as good as the person on the end of your cross.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 14:51:22 GMT
But if there isn't then don't cross. It's just losing possession. I agree and I don't mind the team keeping possession, I just think unless your striker is coming very deep to influence the play, he should always be in and around the box when a cross comes in. Reference the assist stat, I suppose you are only as good as the person on the end of your cross. I agree but if they aren't then you should get your head up and not cross. It's something that I wanted throttle McClean for so I can't not want to do the same for Tymon. His crosses definitely go into better areas way more consistently though. But still, usually there's no bugger there to be crossing it to, so why cross at all?
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 15:14:03 GMT
Oh wise one, could you tell us the max we could possibly spend without selling? 46 pence. So you want to be categorical that you know how tight the financial restraints are but you won’t commit to a serious figure that should we surpass it you would accept you were just chatting shit? Could you categorically rule out deals totalling £3M without selling?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 7, 2022 15:16:37 GMT
So you want to be categorical that you know how tight the financial restraints are but you won’t commit to a serious figure that should we surpass it you would accept you were just chatting shit? Could you categorically rule out deals totalling £3M without selling? I don't think it'll be that high unless the Surridge money wasn't used for the loans last season.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 15:17:39 GMT
I agree and I don't mind the team keeping possession, I just think unless your striker is coming very deep to influence the play, he should always be in and around the box when a cross comes in. Reference the assist stat, I suppose you are only as good as the person on the end of your cross. I agree but if they aren't then you should get your head up and not cross. It's something that I wanted throttle McClean for so I can't not want to do the same for Tymon. His crosses definitely go into better areas way more consistently though. But still, usually there's no bugger there to be crossing it to, so why cross at all? So are you saying he’s meant to cross to the very position of a player in the box or are you saying he’s crossing into the box when there’s absolutely no one in and around the box?
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 7, 2022 15:18:33 GMT
So you want to be categorical that you know how tight the financial restraints are but you won’t commit to a serious figure that should we surpass it you would accept you were just chatting shit? Could you categorically rule out deals totalling £3M without selling? I don't think it'll be that high unless the Surridge money wasn't used for the loans last season. Think that’s a nice word you’re getting the hang of this.
|
|