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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 1, 2022 9:11:07 GMT
I have a feeling that a lot of that is to do with Mr Don Revie although I will happily be corrected. Same as why Sir Denis Of Smith didn't get the International credit he deserved Yup Revie England's worst ever manager Hudson stood for everything review detested
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2022 9:24:38 GMT
So it seems the general consensus is Revie then. Did it have anything to do with him playing for us then as well and not one of the so called glamour clubs? Was that still a thing back in the 70's when clubs were on a more even playing field?
Out of interest, and I could look it up if I wanted, but that would kill the discussion. Who were England's regular centre midfield choices whilst Hudson was at his peak, and how long was he at his peak for due to his lifestyle?
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Post by Gods on May 1, 2022 9:41:09 GMT
So it seems the general consensus is Revie then. Did it have anything to do with him playing for us then as well and not one of the so called glamour clubs? Was that still a thing back in the 70's when clubs were on a more even playing field? Out of interest, and I could look it up if I wanted, but that would kill the discussion. Who were England's regular centre midfield choices whilst Hudson was at his peak, and how long was he at his peak for due to his lifestyle? It was kind of the last knockings of Peters, Bell and Madeley early 70's and the new breed of McDermott, Brooking, Hoddle late 70's. Looks okay on paper but got us nowhere. Qualified for the 1970 World Cup by dint of being holders and not again for 12 years until 1982. Prime of my football watching youth up in smoke :-)
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Post by partickpotter on May 1, 2022 9:49:20 GMT
Haven’t read all the thread so apologies if mentioned before…..Hudson and Gascoigne were different types of players. Hudson was a box to box play maker whereas Gazza was an attacking midfielder. However Gazza was good at his game whereas Hudson was exceptional. Hudson’s mistake was going to the arseholes and being fucked up by Neil who would not allow Hudson to have free reign on the pitch the way Waddo did. The same happened with revie for England. I remember Hudson and Bell taking world Champions West Germany apart in 75 winning 2-0. Think he only played once more for England after falling out with revie. I saw both at their very best… Hudson throughout his first time at Stoke and Gascoigne for Rangers several times at Celtic Park when he bossed Old Form games. Both were exceptional players. Both were also flawed who had self destructive tendencies that meant neither achieved as much as they might have. Anyway, it was a privilege to have seen them both. As to who was better, It’s a no brainer for me; Alan Hudson.
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Post by AlliG on May 1, 2022 10:57:13 GMT
Never saw Hudson play in his prime so I can't say who I think was the better player. What I do know is that Paul Gascoigne was comfortably the most talented footballer I've ever seen in an England shirt in my lifetime, so Hudson must have been something special if he was better than Gazza. Genuine question to those who did see Hudson in his pomp...... Why was it that he didn't get the caps he deserved? Quoted from wiki…..… "Owing to a ban from international football after refusing to tour with the England under-23 side, Hudson did not make his England debut until 1975, when sparkling performances earned him two call-ups by then England manager Don Revie. He starred in the team that beat 1974 FIFA World Cup champions West Germany 2–0 at Wembley, and then in the 5–0 destruction of Cyprus. However, injuries and clashes with Revie meant that those two caps were the only ones he earned.[2] He was called up as a late replacement by Ron Greenwood in 1978 for a match against Brazil. Hudson refused to join up as he was not in the original squad." Explains a lot really. Perhaps his own ego destroyed his England chances. Hudson (and Greenhoff) were called up for a friendly against Wales in 1976. Unfortunately Stoke had a rearranged league game at Derby that midweek, so Stoke withdrew both players from the England squad. Hudson had his leg broken by an over the top stamp on his shin out on the touchline (just in front of where I was standing) by Bruce Rioch in the Derby match, which put him out for the rest of the season (and the summer internationals). Injury also potentially prevented him going to the 1970 World Cup. He burst on the scene as an 18 year old with a precocious talent in the 1969/70 season and had been selected for the 40 man provisional Word Cup squad when he suffered a very serious ankle injury that ended his chances. I think it sums up how good a player he was at 18 that in the run up to the 1970 FA Cup Final, the main story in all the papers was about the sometime bizarre efforts that Chelsea were making to try and get him fit in time for the Final.
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Post by tpholloway1 on May 1, 2022 12:06:23 GMT
I'm sure I read somewhere that Bobby Moore and several of the West Ham team used to go to watch Hudson as a 16 year old he was so good.
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Post by OldStokie on May 1, 2022 12:49:25 GMT
Some may scoff at the thought of Huddy being mentioned in the same breath as Cruyff but he actually was that good. The letter that George Best sent to Huddy advising him not to follow in his footsteps with the demon drink echoes that. Best believed that Huddy was the best footballer in the country at the time if not Europe. A certain70's Stoke winger told me of one particular trip to Highbury in 1975 (I think). Huddy & Geof Salmons had been out all night in London on the sauce. Huddy needed sleeping pills to sleep from 5pm. Him and Salmons had to be helped onto the team coach and their boot laces tied by team mates. Arsenal away with 11 men was hard enough. We affectively had 9 In those days there was one match on MOTD Saturday night and it happened to be Arsenal v Stoke. Alan Hudson was MOM and scored the only goal of the game in a 1-0 victory. He was a genius and like so many a flawed genius. Denis Smith to this day still gets wound up about Huddy because he believes he could have been so much more. If you ask anyone outside of England who Hudson was, they’d give you a blank stare. The same for can’t be said for Cruyff. Maybe he could have been better, but stories of overcoming getting wasted before a game and still managing to do well don’t make me think he was an amazing player, just a wasted opportunity. You can’t compare what was with what could have been otherwise you may as well start talking about Owen, Owen Hargreaves, Ledley King or even Ravel Morrison. They all were likely “not fit to lace Hudson’s boots”, yet what if they didn’t get injuries/have a terrible attitude? The reason Huddy wasn't known outside of the UK was that, unlike those I said he could stand proudly alongside and not be out of place, Cruyff and Beckenbauer, apart from two friendly games for England, he was never on the world stage to be appraised. The reason for that were the managers at the time and his own attitude to authority. He was the architect of his own downfall in that regard. But none of that takes away his wonderful ability. I'm a lover of the Beautiful Game and those who play it. Watching Cruyff was pure joy. Beckenbauer was like Zidane... both were supremely talented powerhouses but different types of players to Cruyff and Hudson. The latter two were what I call 'artistes'... wonderful ballet dancers. We all have different opinions and I respect the views of others who would disagree with me. But for me, the two standout players who I still drool over the memories of their almost unique talent, are Cruyff and Hudson. Other England players who deserve more than a honourable mention are Gazza; Hoddle, who was the perfect exponent of the long ball pass, and Beckham at his supreme best. At the moment the player I enjoy watching most is Kevin De Bruyne. His power, vision, passing ability, and goalscoring talents are amazing. OS.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2022 13:00:16 GMT
One of my first ever games was Crewe v a select 11 for a player called Tommy Lowry. I was about 6 . Was a chap on a microphone and an old amplifier doing the team line ups, a lot of the players advertised as playing didn't turn up, rumour was that Hudson and others had hit the pubs instead of the game, Bowles included but could be rubbish of course . A lad about 17 got on the pitch and picked up the microphone when the PA announcer not looking and swore a few times before announcing 'Wheres Alan Huds on, on the toilet?'. Strange what you remember was like that episode of 'Porridge' v a celebrity team when you were struggling to recognise half the players. Certainly got a bigger cheer than the celeb team line up.
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