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Post by lordb on Apr 29, 2022 18:54:15 GMT
check out Capello & Svens CV pre England the FA could not have been more ambitious with those two Before them Keegan was popular choice, a was Venables Clough sticks out as the one they could have got but chose not to Robson & Taylor made sense at the time MacLaren...I think everyone thought that would fail & it did They tried for Mourinho (& whatever you think of him it was ambitious approach by the FA) & he nearly took the job Southgate did get Middlesbrough relegated & wasn't great for U21's imho & yet he's turned out to be the best England manager since Ramsey The top managers now don't take international jobs or at least not until the end of their careers, you won't see Klopp managing Germany for a very long time for e.g. Thought Southgates U21 record was what got him the job, pretty good weren’t we? I may be wrong🤷🏻♂️ It was a bit Sven, breezed qualifiers did little in tournaments he's been miles better in the top job
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 29, 2022 18:59:17 GMT
Thought Southgates U21 record was what got him the job, pretty good weren’t we? I may be wrong🤷🏻♂️ It was a bit Sven, breezed qualifiers did little in tournaments he's been miles better in the top job As he should have been, he’s got the pick of the litter. I’m in the Southgate out camp I’m afraid, I think he should have gone after the Euros
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 19:13:53 GMT
A shame Dave Bamber didn't play alongside Gascoigne. To a lesser extent Jesus Gil
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Post by anchorman on Apr 29, 2022 20:03:39 GMT
I was a regular throughout Hudson's time at Stoke and he was brilliant but stand alongside Cruyff etc What have you been smoking? I don't smoke. Had England had a manager like Waddington and not that bastard Revie, when he was at his best, Hudson would have become one of England's greatest ever players. But no manager apart from Waddo would have tolerated his lifestyle off the park and selected him. The FA wouldn't have allowed it. But I'm not interested in the FA. I'm more interested in the thoughts of that brilliant manager, Bill Shankly, than I am of them. I don't retract my comments even slightly. OS. Some may scoff at the thought of Huddy being mentioned in the same breath as Cruyff but he actually was that good. The letter that George Best sent to Huddy advising him not to follow in his footsteps with the demon drink echoes that. Best believed that Huddy was the best footballer in the country at the time if not Europe. A certain70's Stoke winger told me of one particular trip to Highbury in 1975 (I think). Huddy & Geof Salmons had been out all night in London on the sauce. Huddy needed sleeping pills to sleep from 5pm. Him and Salmons had to be helped onto the team coach and their boot laces tied by team mates. Arsenal away with 11 men was hard enough. We affectively had 9! In those days there was one match on MOTD Saturday night and it happened to be Arsenal v Stoke. Alan Hudson was MOM and scored the only goal of the game in a 1-0 victory. He was a genius and like so many a flawed genius. Denis Smith to this day still gets wound up about Huddy because he believes he could have been so much more.
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Post by hardcastle on Apr 29, 2022 20:04:17 GMT
Good players improve teams.
It's the team that's the barometer.
I think we get a bit carried away focussing on thinking how good they look as individuals.
Look how Hudson transformed Stoke both first time and second time around (and, of course, that world class performancece vs West Germany in '75).
Can the same really be said of Gazza?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 20:32:52 GMT
Anybody suggesting that Gascoigne couldn't have done it on the pitches that Hudson had to play on is off their fucking tits.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 29, 2022 20:35:11 GMT
Anybody suggesting that Gascoigne couldn't have done it on the pitches that Hudson had to play on is off their fucking tits. He literally did
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 20:36:59 GMT
Anybody suggesting that Gascoigne couldn't have done it on the pitches that Hudson had to play on is off their fucking tits. He literally did That fact can't get in the way of the misty eyed nostalgia crew though
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 29, 2022 23:09:08 GMT
Thought Southgates U21 record was what got him the job, pretty good weren’t we? I may be wrong🤷🏻♂️ It was a bit Sven, breezed qualifiers did little in tournaments he's been miles better in the top job Sven got us to two world cup quarter finals. That's pretty good in reality. 2004 was a fizzle out though
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 30, 2022 0:59:29 GMT
It was a bit Sven, breezed qualifiers did little in tournaments he's been miles better in the top job Sven got us to two world cup quarter finals. That's pretty good in reality. 2004 was a fizzle out though Sad thing is we think getting to a quater final is a success. We have a quality group of players now who are more than capable of winning a world cup.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 30, 2022 3:21:05 GMT
Sven got us to two world cup quarter finals. That's pretty good in reality. 2004 was a fizzle out though Sad thing is we think getting to a quater final is a success. We have a quality group of players now who are more than capable of winning a world cup. In Sven's day quarter final was adequate. Overall Many England fans don't have a realistic view of England's status in world football. We have much better players now. We can make an impression BUT to say more than capable is pushing the point somewhat. Although there's a lot to be optiistic about.
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Post by hardcastle on Apr 30, 2022 7:38:51 GMT
It was a bit Sven, breezed qualifiers did little in tournaments he's been miles better in the top job Sven got us to two world cup quarter finals. That's pretty good in reality. 2004 was a fizzle out though
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Post by hardcastle on Apr 30, 2022 7:44:08 GMT
Really? Top eight for England is the bare minimum isn't it? (A bit like Spurs finishing sixth in the league every season). Only after that are you genuinely amongs the serial winners.
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Post by hyaduck on Apr 30, 2022 10:16:22 GMT
Sad thing is we think getting to a quater final is a success. We have a quality group of players now who are more than capable of winning a world cup. In Sven's day quarter final was adequate. Overall Many England fans don't have a realistic view of England's status in world football. We have much better players now. We can make an impression BUT to say more than capable is pushing the point somewhat. Although there's a lot to be optiistic about. We have some fantastic players these days who play in the best league in the world who are as capable as any other to win a major trophy. Still unsure about Southgate as a manager, but as a team it’s the strongest we’ve had since 66.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 10:20:54 GMT
It was a bit Sven, breezed qualifiers did little in tournaments he's been miles better in the top job As he should have been, he’s got the pick of the litter. I’m in the Southgate out camp I’m afraid, I think he should have gone after the Euros England have a manager that is too scared to lose instead of being brave to win. We would have won that final if he had a plan B.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 30, 2022 10:52:13 GMT
I don't smoke. Had England had a manager like Waddington and not that bastard Revie, when he was at his best, Hudson would have become one of England's greatest ever players. But no manager apart from Waddo would have tolerated his lifestyle off the park and selected him. The FA wouldn't have allowed it. But I'm not interested in the FA. I'm more interested in the thoughts of that brilliant manager, Bill Shankly, than I am of them. I don't retract my comments even slightly. OS. Some may scoff at the thought of Huddy being mentioned in the same breath as Cruyff but he actually was that good. The letter that George Best sent to Huddy advising him not to follow in his footsteps with the demon drink echoes that. Best believed that Huddy was the best footballer in the country at the time if not Europe. A certain70's Stoke winger told me of one particular trip to Highbury in 1975 (I think). Huddy & Geof Salmons had been out all night in London on the sauce. Huddy needed sleeping pills to sleep from 5pm. Him and Salmons had to be helped onto the team coach and their boot laces tied by team mates. Arsenal away with 11 men was hard enough. We affectively had 9 In those days there was one match on MOTD Saturday night and it happened to be Arsenal v Stoke. Alan Hudson was MOM and scored the only goal of the game in a 1-0 victory. He was a genius and like so many a flawed genius. Denis Smith to this day still gets wound up about Huddy because he believes he could have been so much more. If you ask anyone outside of England who Hudson was, they’d give you a blank stare. The same for can’t be said for Cruyff. Maybe he could have been better, but stories of overcoming getting wasted before a game and still managing to do well don’t make me think he was an amazing player, just a wasted opportunity. You can’t compare what was with what could have been otherwise you may as well start talking about Owen, Owen Hargreaves, Ledley King or even Ravel Morrison. They all were likely “not fit to lace Hudson’s boots”, yet what if they didn’t get injuries/have a terrible attitude?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 30, 2022 11:01:43 GMT
Haven’t read all the thread so apologies if mentioned before…..Hudson and Gascoigne were different types of players. Hudson was a box to box play maker whereas Gazza was an attacking midfielder. However Gazza was good at his game whereas Hudson was exceptional. Hudson’s mistake was going to the arseholes and being fucked up by Neil who would not allow Hudson to have free reign on the pitch the way Waddo did. The same happened with revie for England. I remember Hudson and Bell taking world Champions West Germany apart in 75 winning 2-0. Think he only played once more for England after falling out with revie.
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Post by Scrotnig on Apr 30, 2022 11:04:46 GMT
Dunno, but watching the washed-up has-been Huddy's return to an almost guaranteed relegation side in the mid-80s and seeing him transform us immediately and almost single-handedly into the 2nd best team in the country (formwise to the end of that season), will remain one of the most astounding things I've ever seen. The guy was a total footballing genius. I remember that! My God I’m old.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 11:06:54 GMT
Never saw Hudson play in his prime so I can't say who I think was the better player.
What I do know is that Paul Gascoigne was comfortably the most talented footballer I've ever seen in an England shirt in my lifetime, so Hudson must have been something special if he was better than Gazza.
Genuine question to those who did see Hudson in his pomp...... Why was it that he didn't get the caps he deserved?
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Apr 30, 2022 11:23:32 GMT
Never saw Hudson play in his prime so I can't say who I think was the better player. What I do know is that Paul Gascoigne was comfortably the most talented footballer I've ever seen in an England shirt in my lifetime, so Hudson must have been something special if he was better than Gazza. Genuine question to those who did see Hudson in his pomp...... Why was it that he didn't get the caps he deserved? I have a feeling that a lot of that is to do with Mr Don Revie although I will happily be corrected. Same as why Sir Denis Of Smith didn't get the International credit he deserved
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Post by lordb on Apr 30, 2022 11:41:38 GMT
Never saw Hudson play in his prime so I can't say who I think was the better player. What I do know is that Paul Gascoigne was comfortably the most talented footballer I've ever seen in an England shirt in my lifetime, so Hudson must have been something special if he was better than Gazza. Genuine question to those who did see Hudson in his pomp...... Why was it that he didn't get the caps he deserved? I have a feeling that a lot of that is to do with Mr Don Revie although I will happily be corrected. Same as why Sir Denis Of Smith didn't get the International credit he deserved Yup Revie England's worst ever manager
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Apr 30, 2022 13:05:08 GMT
I have a feeling that a lot of that is to do with Mr Don Revie although I will happily be corrected. Same as why Sir Denis Of Smith didn't get the International credit he deserved Yup Revie England's worst ever manager I was only around 4 or 5 at the time but older brother who took me to me to my first Stoke game, always said the Revie would never pick a Stoke player for that reason alone....They play for Stoke.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 30, 2022 13:58:28 GMT
Yup Revie England's worst ever manager I was only around 4 or 5 at the time but older brother who took me to me to my first Stoke game, always said the Revie would never pick a Stoke player for that reason alone....They play for Stoke. Could it also be that we just think that they are better than they are because they are good for us? I’m sure loads of Premier league teams feel that their players are always overlooked. When Jagielka first came in to the side at 39, he was streets ahead of all our other defenders. He still is. Just imagine what he was like when he was in his peak and everyone was wondering why Shawcross didn’t get a look in. Jagielka wasn’t even first choice for England during that point.
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Post by hardcastle on Apr 30, 2022 19:02:33 GMT
Never saw Hudson play in his prime so I can't say who I think was the better player. What I do know is that Paul Gascoigne was comfortably the most talented footballer I've ever seen in an England shirt in my lifetime, so Hudson must have been something special if he was better than Gazza. Genuine question to those who did see Hudson in his pomp...... Why was it that he didn't get the caps he deserved? After that West Germany performance every pundit and supporter in the country would happily have built the England side around him. Hudson then made himself unavailable l think for a a match Revie thought be should have played in which pissed him off somewhat. (Someone may recall this more accurately than l can?)
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Post by JoeinOz on May 1, 2022 6:21:12 GMT
I have a feeling that a lot of that is to do with Mr Don Revie although I will happily be corrected. Same as why Sir Denis Of Smith didn't get the International credit he deserved Yup Revie England's worst ever manager McClaren was loads worse than Revie
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 1, 2022 7:13:30 GMT
Never saw Hudson play in his prime so I can't say who I think was the better player. What I do know is that Paul Gascoigne was comfortably the most talented footballer I've ever seen in an England shirt in my lifetime, so Hudson must have been something special if he was better than Gazza. Genuine question to those who did see Hudson in his pomp...... Why was it that he didn't get the caps he deserved? Quoted from wiki…..… "Owing to a ban from international football after refusing to tour with the England under-23 side, Hudson did not make his England debut until 1975, when sparkling performances earned him two call-ups by then England manager Don Revie. He starred in the team that beat 1974 FIFA World Cup champions West Germany 2–0 at Wembley, and then in the 5–0 destruction of Cyprus. However, injuries and clashes with Revie meant that those two caps were the only ones he earned.[2] He was called up as a late replacement by Ron Greenwood in 1978 for a match against Brazil. Hudson refused to join up as he was not in the original squad." Explains a lot really. Perhaps his own ego destroyed his England chances.
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Post by dutchstokie on May 1, 2022 7:14:01 GMT
Yup Revie England's worst ever manager McClaren was loads worse than Revie Revue was more stubborn than McLaren…. Schteve just run out of ideas at times Revue was very stand off and arrogant
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Post by JoeinOz on May 1, 2022 7:26:34 GMT
McClaren was loads worse than Revie Revue was more stubborn than McLaren…. Schteve just run out of ideas at times Revue was very stand off and arrogant Taylor was the stubbornest.
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Post by lordb on May 1, 2022 8:23:42 GMT
Yup Revie England's worst ever manager McClaren was loads worse than Revie MacLaren was shit but unlike Revie he didn't choose not to play a raft of talented players
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 1, 2022 9:06:48 GMT
McClaren was loads worse than Revie Revue was more stubborn than McLaren…. Schteve just run out of ideas at times Revue was very stand off and arrogant I thought you might stick up for the “Dutchman”😉
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