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Post by pottersrule on Apr 23, 2022 9:30:46 GMT
Huth wasn’t a right back though was he and it showed so that’s again utter nonsense Collins was a natural in both positions Collins isn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same. He was competent at right back.He may be a lot better centre half and I'm sure any potential suitors would have seen that if you have managed too.You are trying to make a point to prove your agenda,but making yourself look silly.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 23, 2022 9:39:02 GMT
Collins isn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same. He was competent at right back.He may be a lot better centre half and I'm sure any potential suitors would have seen that if you have managed too.You are trying to make a point to prove your agenda,but making yourself look silly. Now you’ve done it Mention the A word Now we’ll have a three hour lecture on the definition of the word agenda I’m off out Sorry came over all ‘Ducky’ there. Well I would have done if all the exclamation marks would have been allowed. Has Admin disabled exclamation marks to scupper the little duck’s extravagant over use of them?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 9:40:44 GMT
Collins isn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same. He was competent at right back.He may be a lot better centre half and I'm sure any potential suitors would have seen that if you have managed too.You are trying to make a point to prove your agenda,but making yourself look silly. What agenda? What a stupid comment. Huth was competent at right back, he wasn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 9:41:42 GMT
He was competent at right back.He may be a lot better centre half and I'm sure any potential suitors would have seen that if you have managed too.You are trying to make a point to prove your agenda,but making yourself look silly. Now you’ve done it Mention the A word Now we’ll have a three hour lecture on the definition of the word agenda I’m off out Sorry came over all ‘Ducky’ there. Because it’s fucking lazy. What agenda? I’d love to know what agenda anyone has tbh. It’s tiresome bollocks trotted out by people who can’t make a decent argument.
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Post by pottersrule on Apr 23, 2022 9:57:31 GMT
He was competent at right back.He may be a lot better centre half and I'm sure any potential suitors would have seen that if you have managed too.You are trying to make a point to prove your agenda,but making yourself look silly. What agenda? What a stupid comment. Huth was competent at right back, he wasn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same. Well he wasn't really competent at right back he was bloody awful and looked completely out of position.What Agenda? Give over man.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 10:05:16 GMT
Could be wrong, but I can only ever remember Huth playing right back a handful of times.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 23, 2022 10:08:05 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 10:11:25 GMT
What agenda? What a stupid comment. Huth was competent at right back, he wasn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same. Well he wasn't really competent at right back he was bloody awful and looked completely out of position.What Agenda? Give over man. He played there for a season in the PL which suggests he was. Yeah what agenda. I don’t have any agenda. It’s a bollocks lazy thing on here that just means you disagree with my opinion and can’t be arsed to argue it.
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Post by stokie1947 on Apr 23, 2022 10:13:40 GMT
Collins & Soutar could have been the new Huth & Shawcross
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 23, 2022 10:18:11 GMT
Well in the 10 games he played at right back last season we W4 D4 L2, kept 7 clean sheets losing only to promoted Watford and Norwich conceding only 7 goals 4 of which were in 1 game away at Norwich. So yeah it seemed to made perfect sense.......... No it doesn’t. He’s not and never will be a right back. It was pathetic management from a pathetic manager. He may well be a better centre half than RB but MON was picking a team for Stoke not the Nathan Collins fan club. He felt Collins could do a better job at right back than the only RB at the club and any of the other centre backs. He was proved correct. From Collin's point of view he should have looked at it as a learning experience and he probably did. As Holden said yesterday not all unpleasant experiences are bad for young players as they learn from them and will look back on them later in their career and see benefits they reaped from them. I'm sure in Ajax's 'total football' era one of the things they did was make sure their youth players all played in different positions so they understood the game better and could play anywhere on the pitch rather than just their favoured position. They specialised later.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 10:20:16 GMT
No it doesn’t. He’s not and never will be a right back. It was pathetic management from a pathetic manager. He may well be a better centre half than RB but MON was picking a team for Stoke not the Nathan Collins fan club. He felt Collins could do a better job at right back than the only RB at the club and any of the other centre backs. He was proved correct. From Colli's point of view he should hafe looked at it as a learning experience and he probably did. As Holden said yesterday not all unpleasant experiences are bad for young players as they learn from them and will look back on them later in their career and see benefits they reaped from them. I'm sure in Ajax's 'total football' era one of the things they did was make sure their youth players all played in different positions so they understood the game better and could play anywhere on the pitch rather than just their favoured position. They specialised later. The Nathan Collins fan club. What claptrap. The best thing for Stoke was to play our best centre half at centre half. Yeah they do that in the youth sides. I watched them play a 16 year old at centre half, I think he’s the same age as Collins. He then moved to Juve. Collins is imo a bit better.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 23, 2022 10:27:03 GMT
So we used the potentially best centre back this club has had since the 70s at right back. Makes sense. Well in the 10 games he played at right back last season we W4 D4 L2, kept 7 clean sheets losing only to promoted Watford and Norwich conceding only 7 goals 4 of which were in 1 game away at Norwich. So yeah it seemed to made perfect sense.......... Signing a right back he trusted made perfect sense, playing a very good young center back did not.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 23, 2022 10:29:16 GMT
No it doesn’t. He’s not and never will be a right back. It was pathetic management from a pathetic manager. He may well be a better centre half than RB but MON was picking a team for Stoke not the Nathan Collins fan club. He felt Collins could do a better job at right back than the only RB at the club and any of the other centre backs. He was proved correct. From Collin's point of view he should have looked at it as a learning experience and he probably did. As Holden said yesterday not all unpleasant experiences are bad for young players as they learn from them and will look back on them later in their career and see benefits they reaped from them. I'm sure in Ajax's 'total football' era one of the things they did was make sure their youth players all played in different positions so they understood the game better and could play anywhere on the pitch rather than just their favoured position. They specialised later. More poor management not signing a right back then isn't it.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 23, 2022 10:30:08 GMT
And he may well have done had he stayed fit and able to play the second half of the season. MON clearly didn’t trust him there. I still think MON played both Collins and Souttar in central defence against clubs like Wolves and Villa in the League cup, or didn't he?
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 23, 2022 10:32:58 GMT
Well he wasn't really competent at right back he was bloody awful and looked completely out of position.What Agenda? Give over man. He played there for a season in the PL which suggests he was. Yeah what agenda. I don’t have any agenda. It’s a bollocks lazy thing on here that just means you disagree with my opinion and can’t be arsed to argue it. He wasn’t shambolic there, but he wasn’t competent either. He’d have never played there if it wasn’t Pulis in charge. He was far too slow and offered nothing going forward. “He played there for a season in the PL”…..what kind of argument is that? So then any player who has played in the Premier League must have been competent, just because they played there?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 10:34:08 GMT
MON clearly didn’t trust him there. I stiull think MON played both Collins and Souttar in central defence against clubs like Wolves and Villa in the League cup, or didn't he? He did because it’s the league cup and no one cares if you get knocked out.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 10:34:57 GMT
He played there for a season in the PL which suggests he was. Yeah what agenda. I don’t have any agenda. It’s a bollocks lazy thing on here that just means you disagree with my opinion and can’t be arsed to argue it. He wasn’t shambolic there, but he wasn’t competent either. He’d have never played there if it wasn’t Pulis in charge. He was far too slow and offered nothing going forward. “He played there for a season in the PL”…..what kind of argument is that? So then any player who has played in the Premier League must have been competent, just because they played there? It’s the one being used for Collins being a right back. I agree it’s nonsense. That was my point. Neither are right backs.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 23, 2022 10:36:19 GMT
I stiull think MON played both Collins and Souttar in central defence against clubs like Wolves and Villa in the League cup, or didn't he? He did because it’s the league cup and no one cares if you get knocked out. Still I seem to remember that defensive pairing did ever so well in those games.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 10:42:38 GMT
He did because it’s the league cup and no one cares if you get knocked out. Still I seem to remember that defensive pairing did ever so well in those games. They did and then he didn’t use them together where it matters.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 23, 2022 10:43:26 GMT
He may well be a better centre half than RB but MON was picking a team for Stoke not the Nathan Collins fan club. He felt Collins could do a better job at right back than the only RB at the club and any of the other centre backs. He was proved correct. From Colli's point of view he should hafe looked at it as a learning experience and he probably did. As Holden said yesterday not all unpleasant experiences are bad for young players as they learn from them and will look back on them later in their career and see benefits they reaped from them. I'm sure in Ajax's 'total football' era one of the things they did was make sure their youth players all played in different positions so they understood the game better and could play anywhere on the pitch rather than just their favoured position. They specialised later. The Nathan Collins fan club. What claptrap. The best thing for Stoke was to play our best centre half at centre half. Yeah they do that in the youth sides. I watched them play a 16 year old at centre half, I think he’s the same age as Collins. He then moved to Juve. Collins is imo a bit better. So we should have just continued to watch teams play down the sides and fling in crosses to the far post where Smith had gone AWOL yet again. It doesn't matter how strong your central partnership is if there is a weak link in defence for teams to exploit. Yes we should have bought another right back, we didn't. I don't know the reason for that cos MON doesn't trust Smith. The next best option was Collins.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 10:45:03 GMT
The Nathan Collins fan club. What claptrap. The best thing for Stoke was to play our best centre half at centre half. Yeah they do that in the youth sides. I watched them play a 16 year old at centre half, I think he’s the same age as Collins. He then moved to Juve. Collins is imo a bit better. So we should have just continued to watch teams play down the sides and fling in crosses to the far post where Smith had gone AWOL yet again. It doesn't matter how strong your central partnership is if there is a weak link in defence for teams to exploit. Yes we should have bought another right back, we didn't. I don't know the reason for that cos MON doesn't trust Smith. The next best option was Collins. We should have bought a right back or used Edwards. He had plenty of opportunities to do both. One bad managerial decision doesn’t mean another one is justified.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 10:47:27 GMT
So we should have just continued to watch teams play down the sides and fling in crosses to the far post where Smith had gone AWOL yet again. It doesn't matter how strong your central partnership is if there is a weak link in defence for teams to exploit. Yes we should have bought another right back, we didn't. I don't know the reason for that cos MON doesn't trust Smith. The next best option was Collins. We should have bought a right back or used Edwards. He had plenty of opportunities to do both. One bad managerial decision doesn’t mean another one is justified. Edwards had his chances and bolloxed it up
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 23, 2022 10:48:55 GMT
Collins and Souttar would have made a great centre-back partnership to build a defence for the future. Collins was played as a right back because he was competent there and not because it was his best position. But when we sold Collins, it was the present that dictated whether he stay or go. Without the income from his sale we could now be facing a points deduction under FFP rules. We needed strengthening all over the park and his sale allowed us to do that. I agree that his sale wasn't a great success in the greater scheme of things but it had to be done. I don't see why people are still arguing about this unless they think that keeping Collins would now have us in an automatic promotion spot or even the play-offs. I certainly don't think his sale was a crisis point in our season. The long-term injuries to Souttar, Powell, and Tyrese played a far greater part in our demise.
OS.
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 23, 2022 11:22:40 GMT
Still I seem to remember that defensive pairing did ever so well in those games. They did and then he didn’t use them together where it matters. Sometimes a player needs to play out of his best position to the best of the team, and this was probably the case here. Smith wasn't the answer at right back in a back four and still isn't as I see it. You could always argue that MON should have brought another right back in, but with finances very tight he might opted to spend the money available elsewhere. If we lost out of a lot of money because of this is debateable as we got £12M + add-ons. Could we really expect much more at that stage? Probably not a lot more from Burnley, but maybe if a bigger club had come in for him.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 11:32:49 GMT
Well in the 10 games he played at right back last season we W4 D4 L2, kept 7 clean sheets losing only to promoted Watford and Norwich conceding only 7 goals 4 of which were in 1 game away at Norwich. So yeah it seemed to made perfect sense.......... Signing a right back he trusted made perfect sense, playing a very good young center back did not. Being saddled with a right back on massive wages compared to his ability was obviously a blocker. And as I said the team defended very well as a unit when he was there…….
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 11:37:46 GMT
So we should have just continued to watch teams play down the sides and fling in crosses to the far post where Smith had gone AWOL yet again. It doesn't matter how strong your central partnership is if there is a weak link in defence for teams to exploit. Yes we should have bought another right back, we didn't. I don't know the reason for that cos MON doesn't trust Smith. The next best option was Collins. We should have bought a right back or used Edwards. He had plenty of opportunities to do both. One bad managerial decision doesn’t mean another one is justified. Collins is not a natural right back. He was still the better option above Edwards and Smith in a back four at that time. The first 6 games he played their we kept 6 clean sheets…….
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Post by independent on Apr 23, 2022 11:44:53 GMT
In an ideal world MON would have kept Collins and bought a right full. Unfortunately in the position the club was in he had no choice. I just hope there is a sell on, because he will wind up at a bigger club. A lot of the posters on here seem to think that MON has no financial limitations to work within and it is only his stupidity that is preventing us from assembling a really good side. The last few windows he has had to get one out before he could get one in. Not exactly the easiest way to put a decent side together. And it seems that we still need to reduce the wage bill . Very disappointing.
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Post by lordb on Apr 23, 2022 11:47:35 GMT
In an ideal world MON would have kept Collins and bought a right full. Unfortunately in the position the club was in he had no choice. I just hope there is a sell on, because he will wind up at a bigger club. A lot of the posters on here seem to think that MON has no financial limitations to work within and it is only his stupidity that is preventing us from assembling a really good side. The last few windows he has had to get one out before he could get one in. Not exactly the easiest way to put a decent side together. Absolutely He's wheeled and dealed His budget has not increased one iota and yet people still post that he has been backed financially I'm unhappy with how he's failed second half of the season but it's pure fantasy to suggest he's had any money other than what he's generated himself
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 23, 2022 12:23:05 GMT
Signing a right back he trusted made perfect sense, playing a very good young center back did not. Being saddled with a right back on massive wages compared to his ability was obviously a blocker. And as I said the team defended very well as a unit when he was there……. They did but they did when Pulis did it (Woodgate aside ) and he rightly got pelters for it. MON should have signed another right back then and he should have signed one this season too, along with a left back, its poor squad building and in Tymons case he's been very lucky he's avoided any meaningful injury.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 12:30:15 GMT
Being saddled with a right back on massive wages compared to his ability was obviously a blocker. And as I said the team defended very well as a unit when he was there……. They did but they did when Pulis did it (Woodgate aside ) and he rightly got pelters for it. MON should have signed another right back then and he should have signed one this season too, along with a left back, its poor squad building and in Tymons case he's been very lucky he's avoided any meaningful injury. I don’t particularly care what “they” did to Pulis, I’m talking about Collins. Pulis at the time had an unprecedented budget as Stoke manager, not working under a FFP tightrope so I’m not really sure of the relevance…..
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