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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 7:35:04 GMT
Yep, O'Neill who played him over 40 times until his injury would hardly have given him a game Flogging him at RB... Him and Souttar at CB would have been immense now. One of the best CB's we had at the club and now one of the best in the country (if stats are to be believed) played at full back to accommodate Chester 🙄 For the reccord, he wanted to go, that's not MON fault, but if played in his correct position, would we have been better placed to get back to the promised land and would he have been happier to stay here and "have a go" at going back up? Actually he was played at right back because he didn't trust Smith in a back four, he still doesn't trust him either..............
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 7:36:16 GMT
Flogging him at RB... Him and Souttar at CB would have been immense now. One of the best CB's we had at the club and now one of the best in the country (if stats are to be believed) played at full back to accommodate Chester 🙄 For the reccord, he wanted to go, that's not MON fault, but if played in his correct position, would we have been better placed to get back to the promised land and would he have been happier to stay here and "have a go" at going back up? Have you forgotten that Collins was badly injured in mid February at Norwich and never kicked a ball for the club again? What’s that got to do with anything he wrote?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 7:37:07 GMT
Flogging him at RB... Him and Souttar at CB would have been immense now. One of the best CB's we had at the club and now one of the best in the country (if stats are to be believed) played at full back to accommodate Chester 🙄 For the reccord, he wanted to go, that's not MON fault, but if played in his correct position, would we have been better placed to get back to the promised land and would he have been happier to stay here and "have a go" at going back up? Actually he was played at right back because he didn't trust Smith in a back four, he still doesn't trust him either.............. So we used the potentially best centre back this club has had since the 70s at right back. Makes sense.
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 23, 2022 7:38:42 GMT
Flogging him at RB... Him and Souttar at CB would have been immense now. One of the best CB's we had at the club and now one of the best in the country (if stats are to be believed) played at full back to accommodate Chester 🙄 For the reccord, he wanted to go, that's not MON fault, but if played in his correct position, would we have been better placed to get back to the promised land and would he have been happier to stay here and "have a go" at going back up? Have you forgotten that Collins was badly injured in mid February at Norwich and never kicked a ball for the club again? I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything I said?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 7:42:58 GMT
Actually he was played at right back because he didn't trust Smith in a back four, he still doesn't trust him either.............. So we used the potentially best centre back this club has had since the 70s at right back. Makes sense. Well in the 10 games he played at right back last season we W4 D4 L2, kept 7 clean sheets losing only to promoted Watford and Norwich conceding only 7 goals 4 of which were in 1 game away at Norwich. So yeah it seemed to made perfect sense..........
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 7:45:54 GMT
So we used the potentially best centre back this club has had since the 70s at right back. Makes sense. Well in the 10 games he played at right back last season we W4 D4 L2, kept 7 clean sheets losing only to promoted Watford and Norwich conceding only 7 goals 4 of which were in 1 game away at Norwich. So yeah it seemed to made perfect sense.......... No it doesn’t. He’s not and never will be a right back. It was pathetic management from a pathetic manager.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 7:48:46 GMT
Well in the 10 games he played at right back last season we W4 D4 L2, kept 7 clean sheets losing only to promoted Watford and Norwich conceding only 7 goals 4 of which were in 1 game away at Norwich. So yeah it seemed to made perfect sense.......... No it doesn’t. He’s not and never will be a right back. It was pathetic management from a pathetic manager. 7 clean sheets in 10 games, doesn't get much better than that as a defensive unit. You'd have had Kieron Coates there and we'd have shipped 18 goals, then you'd have come on here and told us how he's better than anyone in the squad..............
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 7:52:25 GMT
Have you forgotten that Collins was badly injured in mid February at Norwich and never kicked a ball for the club again? I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything I said? Hands up, I did skim through your post and misread it. However, the point still remains that Collins never played for the club again since mid February so any thoughts about him staying and linking up with another injured player in Souttar are rather fanciful.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 7:54:12 GMT
No it doesn’t. He’s not and never will be a right back. It was pathetic management from a pathetic manager. 7 clean sheets in 10 games, doesn't get much better than that as a defensive unit. You'd have had Kieron Coates there and we'd have shipped 18 goals, then you'd have come on here and told us how he's better than anyone in the squad.............. It doesn’t matter. He’s a centre half who should have been playing at centre half. Collins since getting in the first team squad here hasn’t been handled well by Jones or O’Neil. Playing him at right back I would imagine cost us millions.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 7:56:55 GMT
7 clean sheets in 10 games, doesn't get much better than that as a defensive unit. You'd have had Kieron Coates there and we'd have shipped 18 goals, then you'd have come on here and told us how he's better than anyone in the squad.............. It doesn’t matter. He’s a centre half who should have been playing at centre half. Collins since getting in the first team squad here hasn’t been handled well by Jones or O’Neil. Playing him at right back I would imagine cost us millions. It wouldn’t have made an iota of difference to his value or our performance last season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 7:58:31 GMT
It doesn’t matter. He’s a centre half who should have been playing at centre half. Collins since getting in the first team squad here hasn’t been handled well by Jones or O’Neil. Playing him at right back I would imagine cost us millions. It wouldn’t have made an iota of difference to his value or our performance last season. Of course it would. If you’re playing a CB at RB it looks fishy as fuck.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 8:00:19 GMT
It wouldn’t have made an iota of difference to his value or our performance last season. Of course it would. If you’re playing a CB at RB it looks fishy as fuck. How would it? What difference would it have made when he got injured in February and missed the final 18 games of the season? Your value doesn’t go up when your watching injured from the sidelines.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:03:15 GMT
Of course it would. If you’re playing a CB at RB it looks fishy as fuck. How would it? What difference would it have made when he got injured in February and missed the final 18 games of the season? Your value doesn’t go up when your watching injured from the sidelines. Because it makes it look like you don’t trust him to play the role that is his and that requires more trust. It just looks terrible. As does the amount of games he played for us. He should have been captain last season. Souttar should be next season.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 8:04:32 GMT
How would it? What difference would it have made when he got injured in February and missed the final 18 games of the season? Your value doesn’t go up when your watching injured from the sidelines. Because it makes it look like you don’t trust him to play the role that is his and that requires more trust. It just looks terrible. As does the amount of games he played for us. He should have been captain last season. Souttar should be next season. Again, utterly irrelevant if you’re injured and unable to play from February and miss nearly half of the season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:05:58 GMT
Because it makes it look like you don’t trust him to play the role that is his and that requires more trust. It just looks terrible. As does the amount of games he played for us. He should have been captain last season. Souttar should be next season. Again, utterly irrelevant if you’re injured and unable to play from February and miss nearly half of the season. It’s not. He would have shown how good he was in a position that is more difficult to play well especially when you’re young and inexperienced.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 8:09:56 GMT
Again, utterly irrelevant if you’re injured and unable to play from February and miss nearly half of the season. It’s not. He would have shown how good he was in a position that is more difficult to play well especially when you’re young and inexperienced. And he may well have done had he stayed fit and able to play the second half of the season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:10:29 GMT
It’s not. He would have shown how good he was in a position that is more difficult to play well especially when you’re young and inexperienced. And he may well have done had he stayed fit and able to play the second half of the season. MON clearly didn’t trust him there.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 8:15:45 GMT
And he may well have done had he stayed fit and able to play the second half of the season. MON clearly didn’t trust him there. He played him as one of his three central defenders as often as he played him at full back. I don’t see his use of him as being poor at all. Even after missing a huge chunk of the season, he still signed for a premier league club and we got a reasonable fee for what’s still a young and unproven player. Let’s not forget he’s only played a dozen games, and there’s still a very good chance he will be back in the championship next season.
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Post by andystokey on Apr 23, 2022 8:17:04 GMT
How would it? What difference would it have made when he got injured in February and missed the final 18 games of the season? Your value doesn’t go up when your watching injured from the sidelines. Because it makes it look like you don’t trust him to play the role that is his and that requires more trust. It just looks terrible. As does the amount of games he played for us. He should have been captain last season. Souttar should be next season. There is s lot of respected coaching that encourages younger defenders, especially centre halves to be played in the full back positions. They see more of the ball in a less "win-lose" situations for the unit, usually having cover in the box from a player with more game time. There is more opportunity to carry the ball uncontested and move forward through the lines. Increasing confidence and ball control. Having the touchline as your defensive partner only on one side reduces risk and gives the player an outball. It keeps fitness high something older players struggle with because of the Km covered running back. It's a pretty established way of giving game time without risk. On the counter I always thought NC was fine in the two alongside Souttar but the rationale is played out regularly especially when the team plays a three. Since one of the wide centre halves needs to push on and carry. There is no doubt as the wide defender he got forward for us and was aggressive carrying the ball. As he drops into a permanent centre role that time will have done him good. Just a shame we never got to see him this season own the Souttar vacancy. I think his ticket price would be close to double.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:25:45 GMT
Because it makes it look like you don’t trust him to play the role that is his and that requires more trust. It just looks terrible. As does the amount of games he played for us. He should have been captain last season. Souttar should be next season. There is s lot of respected coaching that encourages younger defenders, especially centre halves to be played in the full back positions. They see more of the ball in a less "win-lose" situations for the unit, usually having cover in the box from a player with more game time. There is more opportunity to carry the ball uncontested and move forward through the lines. Increasing confidence and ball control. Having the touchline as your defensive partner only on one side reduces risk and gives the player an outball. It keeps fitness high something older players struggle with because of the Km covered running back. It's a pretty established way of giving game time without risk. On the counter I always thought NC was fine in the two alongside Souttar but the rationale is played out regularly especially when the team plays a three. Since one of the wide centre halves needs to push on and carry. There is no doubt as the wide defender he got forward for us and was aggressive carrying the ball. As he drops into a permanent centre role that time will have done him good. Just a shame we never got to see him this season own the Souttar vacancy. I think his ticket price would be close to double. And I get that and that’s why it looks fishy. Collins was more than good enough to be playing centrally as you say though.
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 23, 2022 8:31:39 GMT
I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything I said? Hands up, I did skim through your post and misread it. However, the point still remains that Collins never played for the club again since mid February so any thoughts about him staying and linking up with another injured player in Souttar are rather fanciful. That's why I said "now" it was more of a hindsight thought rather than a beat the manager thought.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 23, 2022 8:45:46 GMT
Actually he was played at right back because he didn't trust Smith in a back four, he still doesn't trust him either.............. So we used the potentially best centre back this club has had since the 70s at right back. Makes sense. As we did with Steve Bould and that was the end of his career 😂
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 23, 2022 8:48:05 GMT
Playing him at right back seems to have really hindered his progression.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:55:51 GMT
So we used the potentially best centre back this club has had since the 70s at right back. Makes sense. As we did with Steve Bould and that was the end of his career 😂 I’m not saying that. 🤷♂️
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:56:40 GMT
Playing him at right back seems to have really hindered his progression. I mean I think it cost him a move to a bigger club yes.
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Post by werrington on Apr 23, 2022 8:57:55 GMT
Again, utterly irrelevant if you’re injured and unable to play from February and miss nearly half of the season. It’s not. He would have shown how good he was in a position that is more difficult to play well especially when you’re young and inexperienced. Nonsense It airs the fact he was versatile and superb in 2 positions making him a more viable option to purchasing clubs
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 23, 2022 8:58:49 GMT
Playing him at right back seems to have really hindered his progression. I mean I think it cost him a move to a bigger club yes. Pure guesswork
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 8:59:28 GMT
It’s not. He would have shown how good he was in a position that is more difficult to play well especially when you’re young and inexperienced. Nonsense It airs the fact he was versatile and superb in 2 positions making him a more viable option to purchasing clubs He’s a centre half. He’s not a right back. Huth played right back for a season or two but it never meant anything like you just wrote. It just meant the manager was an idiot.
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Post by werrington on Apr 23, 2022 9:01:52 GMT
Nonsense It airs the fact he was versatile and superb in 2 positions making him a more viable option to purchasing clubs He’s a centre half. He’s not a right back. Huth played right back for a season or two but it never meant anything like you just wrote. It just meant the manager was an idiot. Huth wasn’t a right back though was he and it showed so that’s again utter nonsense Collins was a natural in both positions
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 9:10:08 GMT
He’s a centre half. He’s not a right back. Huth played right back for a season or two but it never meant anything like you just wrote. It just meant the manager was an idiot. Huth wasn’t a right back though was he and it showed so that’s again utter nonsense Collins was a natural in both positions Collins isn’t a right back. It’s exactly the same.
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