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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 21:12:40 GMT
I respect the opinions of those who want him to stay but I find all the comments about the harm of "constant change" amusing (on the poll thread). O'Neill has already been in post way longer than the average manager, and there are only four longer-serving than him in our division. I don’t get Stoke fans. And I don’t want to either. It’s like a totally different footballing universe.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 9, 2022 21:14:56 GMT
Yes fair comment but all in the FFP stranglehold. I actually think it would be a massive massive gamble to sack him now Which team's budgets actually allow them to have a freer hand in transfer fees and wages for new players though, CP? Teams in this league just don't spend money or pay high wages anymore. It's obvious that we've had to be ultra-careful in making sure we're just on the right side of the FFP line - but in terms of what we've still been able to spend, I'd be surprised if there were many who'd spent more outside the parachute clubs. I don't think that's any kind of excuse this season, given what we've been able to bring in compared to our competition. Huddersfield, for example, haven't spent one penny. From my understanding more cuts have got to made this summer so any new manager would be facing even worse financial restrictions.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 9, 2022 21:19:10 GMT
Which team's budgets actually allow them to have a freer hand in transfer fees and wages for new players though, CP? Teams in this league just don't spend money or pay high wages anymore. It's obvious that we've had to be ultra-careful in making sure we're just on the right side of the FFP line - but in terms of what we've still been able to spend, I'd be surprised if there were many who'd spent more outside the parachute clubs. I don't think that's any kind of excuse this season, given what we've been able to bring in compared to our competition. Huddersfield, for example, haven't spent one penny. From my understanding more cuts have got to made this summer so any new manager would be facing even worse financial restrictions. I'm not surprised because our cost base was initially so high and unsustainable without the parachute money - but I don't think it'll be any worse than managing Blackburn, Coventry, Huddersfield, Luton, Preston, QPR etc etc etc.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 9, 2022 21:21:41 GMT
From my understanding more cuts have got to made this summer so any new manager would be facing even worse financial restrictions. I'm not surprised because our cost base was initially so high and unsustainable without the parachute money - but I don't think it'll be any worse than managing Blackburn, Coventry, Huddersfield, Luton, Preston, QPR etc etc etc. Yes very true mate but for me in that situation it’s better the devil you know. I actually think the way we end the season will tell us more about his future
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Post by pavel on Mar 9, 2022 21:31:18 GMT
Out, sorry for him, but he just looks lost and he isn’t tactically aware enough “in game”
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Post by march4 on Mar 9, 2022 21:46:09 GMT
Gap continues to grow.
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 9, 2022 22:03:10 GMT
I think that there are four big questions to answer that haven't really been given lots of consideration here.
1) Could anything happen between now and the end of the season to change your mind, especially if you want him out now?
2) Is there any benefit that you hope to gain in terms of success by him leaving now and not in the summer?
3) Is there a manager available now who is so good that it is worth chucking out the manager and his entourage of twenty odd coaches, transfer people, analysts etc and bringing this new person in immediately?
4) Are our odds of getting a better replacement higher in the summer?
Of course, if you've read all of that and don't think that there is better out there then you are probably coming to the conclusion that he should stay.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 22:05:49 GMT
I think that there are four big questions to answer that haven't really been given lots of consideration here. 1) Could anything happen between now and the end of the season to change your mind, especially if you want him out now? 2) Is there any benefit that you hope to gain in terms of success by him leaving now and not in the summer? 3) Is there a manager available now who is so good that it is worth chucking out the manager and his entourage of twenty odd coaches, transfer people, analysts etc and bringing this new person in immediately? 4) Are our odds of getting a better replacement higher in the summer? Of course, if you've read all of that and don't think that there is better out there then you are probably coming to the conclusion that he should stay. No I just want him gone. Yes Maybe (not sure anyone can answer that without time travel)
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 9, 2022 22:11:49 GMT
I think that there are four big questions to answer that haven't really been given lots of consideration here. 1) Could anything happen between now and the end of the season to change your mind, especially if you want him out now? 2) Is there any benefit that you hope to gain in terms of success by him leaving now and not in the summer? 3) Is there a manager available now who is so good that it is worth chucking out the manager and his entourage of twenty odd coaches, transfer people, analysts etc and bringing this new person in immediately? 4) Are our odds of getting a better replacement higher in the summer? Of course, if you've read all of that and don't think that there is better out there then you are probably coming to the conclusion that he should stay. No I just want him gone. Yes Maybe (not sure anyone can answer that without time travel) Who for 3, out of interest?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 22:17:49 GMT
No I just want him gone. Yes Maybe (not sure anyone can answer that without time travel) Who for 3, out of interest? Farke get this team well up the league I reckon. But I think any of us could tbh.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 9, 2022 22:21:54 GMT
It'll be more of a gamble to keep him Two seasons of the same capitulation in a row. I’m not sure what people are seeing. There’s no excuse for his negativity. It's not unlike TP's sides calling it a day once we got to 40 points (or whatever it was). The difference is we're in the second division now and there shouldn't be any bonus games. We're not Wycombe, we shouldn't just be glad to be here
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 22:27:47 GMT
Two seasons of the same capitulation in a row. I’m not sure what people are seeing. There’s no excuse for his negativity. It's not unlike TP's sides calling it a day once we got to 40 points (or whatever it was). The difference is we're in the second division now and there shouldn't be any bonus games. We're not Wycombe, we shouldn't just be glad to be here The little old Stoke attitude will never die. It’s tragic.
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Post by Royal Donut on Mar 9, 2022 22:30:09 GMT
In, though I'm not happy with what's going on,on the pitch, which needs to be improved for him to stay, but off the pitch I'm very happy with FFP I think he's done a great job.
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Post by jokker on Mar 9, 2022 23:05:48 GMT
Smith is not his first option, even when fit. So who is as there's no one else? Correct!
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Post by owdestokie2 on Mar 9, 2022 23:34:20 GMT
It's not unlike TP's sides calling it a day once we got to 40 points (or whatever it was). The difference is we're in the second division now and there shouldn't be any bonus games. We're not Wycombe, we shouldn't just be glad to be here The little old Stoke attitude will never die. It’s tragic. That little old Stoke attitude saw Europa Football, a Cup Final and a number of solid years at the top table, world wide recognition, £’s in the bank and world class players displaying their talents at the 365. Thank fuck we’re in the real world of the EFL
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2022 23:36:40 GMT
We’ll see but I have a feeling they’ll be a similar situation to when the capped one was here when fans were clamouring for him to go before it clicked and enabled us to get promoted.On that occasion humble pie was handed out all over the place and if he stays I can see the same humble pie being eaten again by many.Time will tell though Not at all. He should have been sacked last season. Nothing will stop that being a fact. That's not a fact. It's your opinion.
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Post by NassauDave on Mar 9, 2022 23:37:17 GMT
Ooooouuuutttt!!!!!
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 9, 2022 23:44:10 GMT
Interesting that he still seems to have a bit of credit in the bank.
Not quite 50/50 but not a million miles off.
Wouldn’t it be some story if he turned it around and next season we were the real deal?
Unlikely…..but not impossible. I think there’s still a bit of MON love there waiting for an excuse to break out
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 9, 2022 23:44:50 GMT
Not at all. He should have been sacked last season. Nothing will stop that being a fact. That's not a fact. It's your opinion. Sometimes Bayern forgets this subtle distinction.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2022 23:51:47 GMT
That's not a fact. It's your opinion. Sometimes Bayern forgets this subtle distinction. That's because he's more bothered about shouting a million times "look at me, I was right" than the fortunes of our football club. If it was such a stone cold hard "fact" 12 months ago, why wasn't he shouting it earlier in the season when we were in the top 6?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Mar 10, 2022 0:05:10 GMT
Almost 10 years. Hughes, Rowett, Jones or O’Neil whose had the best opportunity via finance/recruitment wriggle room to build/create a progressive match day squad?
Lambert not listed as incomings were done and dusted before he took over
Place them in order
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Post by madnellie on Mar 10, 2022 0:16:21 GMT
Out, but with a heavy heart.
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Post by nottsover60 on Mar 10, 2022 0:39:36 GMT
In. For now. What’s the rush? We’re going neither up or down. The players don’t appear to have downed tools. They should have beaten Barnsley and kept going to the end. If the dream candidate was hammering on our door then fair enough. But as far as I can tell there’s no obvious man to step in. Take a breath. Get to the end of the season and make the call then. It’s a results business and they have been dreadful. I’ll vote out once I know what the plan is to replace him. I’ve got a feeling this club is going to implode and find itself heading towards League 1 next season if we aren’t very careful.
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Post by nottsover60 on Mar 10, 2022 1:24:58 GMT
In. For now. What’s the rush? We’re going neither up or down. The players don’t appear to have downed tools. They should have beaten Barnsley and kept going to the end. If the dream candidate was hammering on our door then fair enough. But as far as I can tell there’s no obvious man to step in. Take a breath. Get to the end of the season and make the call then. It’s a results business and they have been dreadful. I’ll vote out once I know what the plan is to replace him. I’ve got a feeling this club is going to implode and find itself heading towards League 1 next season if we aren’t very careful. I find it quite sad that people quote it's a results business as an excuse. I'm not happy with how the past two seasons have imploded but if we sack someone on results alone then presumably each season only possibly 5 or 6 Premier managers keep their jobs if they've qualified for Europe and 3/4 from each other division if they've got promotion as that is the aim of every club at the beginning of each season. Does enjoyment not come in to it anymore? I would want him sacked more for the fact that despite having built a more exciting squad we still don't consistently play exciting football whether because of the way he sets up or because of a lack of confidence in the squad to play in the way he wants. For me the lack of confidence is a big problem. As soon as we concede we seem convinced we will lose, as soon as we lose a few of matches it seems like we can't turn it round and our season feels like it's over even when we are still in touch at the top because all of a sudden players stop playing in the way we were doing (that point coming after a poor run of results in October soon after probably our best game v WBA.) There are other factors in play as regards confidence - we seem to suffer injuries to more important players, referees seem to give us less protection than other teams and be very quick to punish Stoke players (I find it incredible that we are near the top of the red and yellow table as I just don't see us playing aggressively and most matches seem to end with us having conceded less fouls but gained more cards than our opponents). We seem to be adept at dominating matches but losing to the one chance the opposition gets - is that due to lack of confidence or luck? It seems second balls from set pieces often seem to fall to the opposition at both ends of the pitch, deflections fall to free opponents. Is this luck or poor play? Whatever it seems to drain confidence and body language shows a loss of belief in themselves and the team. MON just doesn't seem able to do anything when we lose confidence either short term in a match or long term over a season when results start going against us. We should have mental strength to keep going despite set backs. The big difference between us and teams like Forest,Coventry, Luton is the number of times they win a match very late in the game because of will power and belief that they are good enough to do it. They are the same with holding onto leads. Would a new manager be able to change our mental fragility or do we need to employ a sports psychologist or are the players just mentally not strong enough?
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Post by Roger Everyone on Mar 10, 2022 4:47:26 GMT
It’s a results business and they have been dreadful. I’ll vote out once I know what the plan is to replace him. I’ve got a feeling this club is going to implode and find itself heading towards League 1 next season if we aren’t very careful. I find it quite sad that people quote it's a results business as an excuse. I'm not happy with how the past two seasons have imploded but if we sack someone on results alone then presumably each season only possibly 5 or 6 Premier managers keep their jobs if they've qualified for Europe and 3/4 from each other division if they've got promotion as that is the aim of every club at the beginning of each season. Does enjoyment not come in to it anymore? I would want him sacked more for the fact that despite having built a more exciting squad we still don't consistently play exciting football whether because of the way he sets up or because of a lack of confidence in the squad to play in the way he wants. For me the lack of confidence is a big problem. As soon as we concede we seem convinced we will lose, as soon as we lose a few of matches it seems like we can't turn it round and our season feels like it's over even when we are still in touch at the top because all of a sudden players stop playing in the way we were doing (that point coming after a poor run of results in October soon after probably our best game v WBA.) There are other factors in play as regards confidence - we seem to suffer injuries to more important players, referees seem to give us less protection than other teams and be very quick to punish Stoke players (I find it incredible that we are near the top of the red and yellow table as I just don't see us playing aggressively and most matches seem to end with us having conceded less fouls but gained more cards than our opponents). We seem to be adept at dominating matches but losing to the one chance the opposition gets - is that due to lack of confidence or luck? It seems second balls from set pieces often seem to fall to the opposition at both ends of the pitch, deflections fall to free opponents. Is this luck or poor play? Whatever it seems to drain confidence and body language shows a loss of belief in themselves and the team. MON just doesn't seem able to do anything when we lose confidence either short term in a match or long term over a season when results start going against us. We should have mental strength to keep going despite set backs. The big difference between us and teams like Forest,Coventry, Luton is the number of times they win a match very late in the game because of will power and belief that they are good enough to do it. They are the same with holding onto leads. Would a new manager be able to change our mental fragility or do we need to employ a sports psychologist or are the players just mentally not strong enough? 👍
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Post by potterpaul on Mar 10, 2022 6:12:44 GMT
It’s a results business and they have been dreadful. I’ll vote out once I know what the plan is to replace him. I’ve got a feeling this club is going to implode and find itself heading towards League 1 next season if we aren’t very careful. I find it quite sad that people quote it's a results business as an excuse. I'm not happy with how the past two seasons have imploded but if we sack someone on results alone then presumably each season only possibly 5 or 6 Premier managers keep their jobs if they've qualified for Europe and 3/4 from each other division if they've got promotion as that is the aim of every club at the beginning of each season. Does enjoyment not come in to it anymore? I would want him sacked more for the fact that despite having built a more exciting squad we still don't consistently play exciting football whether because of the way he sets up or because of a lack of confidence in the squad to play in the way he wants. For me the lack of confidence is a big problem. As soon as we concede we seem convinced we will lose, as soon as we lose a few of matches it seems like we can't turn it round and our season feels like it's over even when we are still in touch at the top because all of a sudden players stop playing in the way we were doing (that point coming after a poor run of results in October soon after probably our best game v WBA.) There are other factors in play as regards confidence - we seem to suffer injuries to more important players, referees seem to give us less protection than other teams and be very quick to punish Stoke players (I find it incredible that we are near the top of the red and yellow table as I just don't see us playing aggressively and most matches seem to end with us having conceded less fouls but gained more cards than our opponents). We seem to be adept at dominating matches but losing to the one chance the opposition gets - is that due to lack of confidence or luck? It seems second balls from set pieces often seem to fall to the opposition at both ends of the pitch, deflections fall to free opponents. Is this luck or poor play? Whatever it seems to drain confidence and body language shows a loss of belief in themselves and the team. MON just doesn't seem able to do anything when we lose confidence either short term in a match or long term over a season when results start going against us. We should have mental strength to keep going despite set backs. The big difference between us and teams like Forest,Coventry, Luton is the number of times they win a match very late in the game because of will power and belief that they are good enough to do it. They are the same with holding onto leads. Would a new manager be able to change our mental fragility or do we need to employ a sports psychologist or are the players just mentally not strong enough? This takes me back to when we first employed MON. My greatest concern was could he reproduce his international form to league. I had my doubts but came to the conclusion what the hell it's desperate times his fresh ideas might just see us safe. Having read your post I think this is the major difference between International management and Club management and as time passes by he is showing what a difficult bridge it is to cross.
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Post by wakeypotter on Mar 10, 2022 6:38:29 GMT
Which team's budgets actually allow them to have a freer hand in transfer fees and wages for new players though, CP? Teams in this league just don't spend money or pay high wages anymore. It's obvious that we've had to be ultra-careful in making sure we're just on the right side of the FFP line - but in terms of what we've still been able to spend, I'd be surprised if there were many who'd spent more outside the parachute clubs. I don't think that's any kind of excuse this season, given what we've been able to bring in compared to our competition. Huddersfield, for example, haven't spent one penny. From my understanding more cuts have got to made this summer so any new manager would be facing even worse financial restrictions. We have a decent squad even when the loans go back play some young lads. A better manager will get a tune out of these players so changing manager now will do us more good than harm
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Post by dadger on Mar 10, 2022 6:55:43 GMT
Out the more of his own players come in worse we get . Balls deep for nuno ? Don’t try don’t get
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Post by theonlooker on Mar 10, 2022 7:02:49 GMT
Out the more of his own players come in worse we get . Balls deep for nuno ? Don’t try don’t get Would Nuno be a success here without an agent peddling the best Portuguese players money can buy at this level?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 10, 2022 7:04:51 GMT
Out the more of his own players come in worse we get . Balls deep for nuno ? Don’t try don’t get Would Nuno be a success here without an agent peddling the best Portuguese players money can buy at this level? No.
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