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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 11:01:36 GMT
I'm not pretending to come up with something original, it's been said here a million times before, but it deserves it's own thread.
Clearly we are lagging behind the modern game and we need something similar to a director of football. We have some systems in place that would compliment such a role, a transfer team independent of the manager etc. We need some vision that extends beyond the manager's personal philosophies because I'm not remotely convinced we will replace MON in a sensible way.
Rowett is old school and conservative, Jones wanted modern pressing and the diamond and MON wants to allegedly play with the Liverpool 4-3-3 style or the 5-3-2.
It's no wonder our squad is so disjointed when we're going to sign three successive managers with wildly distinct styles. If a new man comes in they're going to have the exact same bastard problems.
We have some players of quality in our team but the balance is comical. We need someone with some oversight on managerial and player signings and who has some vision about the footballing identity of our club.
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 7, 2022 11:07:48 GMT
It is a mess, despite all the changes he's overseen. Still no proper chief executive replacement, although Pete Smith claimed they were close to one last week and no Aldridge replacement, an alleged key role in our recruitment set up moving forward.
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Post by 36dd on Mar 7, 2022 11:17:19 GMT
Would having a Director of Football cause unrest between that person and the manager? I apologise for being naive but what does the Director of football job entail? Is it recruiting? The last person to have that position at Stoke was John Rudge.
If we went down that route then maybe MON be put into that role and Holden or another is brought in as first team coach
The last two home games haven’t give me any confidence currently in the system we are playing. It was identified we are weak in the final 3rd, but Saturday we had nothing to support Maja.
The set up was completely wrong from the ko.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 7, 2022 11:17:29 GMT
This was needed before we were relegated.
We hoped relegation would wake them up and finally make them realise.
It didn't.
What's the answer? Because at the minute, I can't see one I like with the Coates family remaining as owners.
They've been asleep at the wheel for 6 years.
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Post by Gods on Mar 7, 2022 11:21:53 GMT
I must admit I'm not sold on the 'Director of Football' thing but we sure as shit need a Chief Executive, basically someone to run the operation.
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Post by mowlee on Mar 7, 2022 11:28:27 GMT
Get a decent manager in an we will get decent results.. your talking out of your ring peice fella
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Post by cheadlepotter on Mar 7, 2022 11:37:57 GMT
Would having a Director of Football cause unrest between that person and the manager? I apologise for being naive but what does the Director of football job entail? Is it recruiting? The last person to have that position at Stoke was John Rudge. If we went down that route then maybe MON be put into that role and Holden or another is brought in as first team coach The last two home games haven’t give me any confidence currently in the system we are playing. It was identified we are weak in the final 3rd, but Saturday we had nothing to support Maja. The set up was completely wrong from the ko. The DOF can be a sort of buffer between the board and the manager. They can be responsible for managing the scouting and recruitment of managers, staff and players. So the manager becomes more of a head coach, he has an input regarding staff and player choices but his job is more the day to day management of training and matchday stuff. The DOF is a long term appointment that links up all the footballing side of the business so manages the manager, head of youth development, technical director if he wishes to have one. It attempts to ensure everything is pulling in the same direction, and that a change in manager doesn’t disrupt things too much. There would be an ongoing shortlist of managers like you’d have one for players. You wouldn’t be sacking a tika-taka manager for a long ball one, for example, so there isn’t a massive change to the squad needed. Philosophy can change slowly, adapt. It’s all a bit modern for Stoke City. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with how things are now because that’s how they’ve always been. You know, why do we need HD televisions, there’s nothing wrong with the one I won on Bullseye. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 7, 2022 11:38:06 GMT
I'm not pretending to come up with something original, it's been said here a million times before, but it deserves it's own thread. Clearly we are lagging behind the modern game and we need something similar to a director of football. We have some systems in place that would compliment such a role, a transfer team independent of the manager etc. We need some vision that extends beyond the manager's personal philosophies because I'm not remotely convinced we will replace MON in a sensible way. Rowett is old school and conservative, Jones wanted modern pressing and the diamond and MON wants to allegedly play with the Liverpool 4-3-3 style or the 5-3-2. It's no wonder our squad is so disjointed when we're going to sign three successive managers with wildly distinct styles. If a new man comes in they're going to have the exact same bastard problems. We have some players of quality in our team but the balance is comical. We need someone with some oversight on managerial and player signings and who has some vision about the footballing identity of our club. It's 100% what we need but I think you'd need to change the manager as well. Firstly because you risk the tail wagging the dog if you do it another way - the Sporting Director would be the one institution the overarching vision, that means he identifies the right manager for the project as well as the principles for the recruitment team, academy etc. Also because the current manager seems incapable of getting out of his own way. We seem to be in the same end game Colonel Kurtz phase with him that we've had with every manager since Hughes, where he clearly doesn't know how to fix things and is panicking and chopping and changing personnel and formations at will. That team sheet on Saturday was a cry for help. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 11:51:52 GMT
This was needed before we were relegated. We hoped relegation would wake them up and finally make them realise. It didn't. What's the answer? Because at the minute, I can't see one I like with the Coates family remaining as owners. They've been asleep at the wheel for 6 years. We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 7, 2022 11:55:41 GMT
This was needed before we were relegated. We hoped relegation would wake them up and finally make them realise. It didn't. What's the answer? Because at the minute, I can't see one I like with the Coates family remaining as owners. They've been asleep at the wheel for 6 years. We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. But they haven't for 6 years. What's going to change? |
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Post by StokieBoy31 on Mar 7, 2022 12:00:50 GMT
We’ve now got Andy Cousins as head of football. Whatever that means?
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 7, 2022 12:02:35 GMT
Get a decent manager in an we will get decent results.. your talking out of your ring peice fella The last two we’ve had seem to pretty decent with any team that isn’t us |
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Post by hyaduck on Mar 7, 2022 12:21:21 GMT
Director of football or not O’Neill needs to go as dread if he’s still here in the summer what other shite he going to bring into the club. With the club heading towards a points deduction, we need to get rid of him ASAP. A nice bloke by all accounts but a really poor tactical manager. O’Neill OUT!!!!!!
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Post by sportsman on Mar 7, 2022 12:30:22 GMT
When the Coates family took over they said the board wasn't big enough and wanted more bodies / investment.
I take it we're still looking all these years on, which would help get around FFP a bit.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Mar 7, 2022 12:31:09 GMT
We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. But they haven't for 6 years. What's going to change? I think we live in hope that they start to run the Football Club with the same professionalism, drive, ambition, and nous, that they run Bet365 with. It hasn't even started to look like that's happening anytime soon. Possibly, because the one person that has got Bet365 positioned was a world-class, industry-leading business in their own right, is the very same person that doesn't give a shit about the Club. Or at least, has no interest at all in spending time on it. It's just disappointing that our owner's spectacularly successful business abilities, don't translate into a well-run football club. |
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Post by J-Roar on Mar 7, 2022 13:06:19 GMT
But they haven't for 6 years. What's going to change? I think we live in hope that they start to run the Football Club with the same professionalism, drive, ambition, and nous, that they run Bet365 with. It hasn't even started to look like that's happening anytime soon. Possibly, because the one person that has got Bet365 positioned was a world-class, industry-leading business in their own right, is the very same person that doesn't give a shit about the Club. Or at least, has no interest at all in spending time on it. It's just disappointing that our owner's spectacularly successful business abilities, don't translate into a well-run football club. When you can make billions running Bet365 why would you waste a second running a football club? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 13:15:03 GMT
We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. But they haven't for 6 years. What's going to change? I mean the hope is after 6 years of abject failure and utter mismanagement the penny will finally drop. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 7, 2022 13:18:43 GMT
But they haven't for 6 years. What's going to change? I mean the hope is after 6 years of abject failure and utter mismanagement the penny will finally drop. If it was going to, it would have done by now. If anything they've given the manager even more power. |
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Mar 7, 2022 13:19:27 GMT
I think we live in hope that they start to run the Football Club with the same professionalism, drive, ambition, and nous, that they run Bet365 with. It hasn't even started to look like that's happening anytime soon. Possibly, because the one person that has got Bet365 positioned was a world-class, industry-leading business in their own right, is the very same person that doesn't give a shit about the Club. Or at least, has no interest at all in spending time on it. It's just disappointing that our owner's spectacularly successful business abilities, don't translate into a well-run football club. When you can make billions running Bet365 why would you waste a second running a football club? Yep, that's fair comment, we're back to the 'Pete and John's plaything' argument. |
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 7, 2022 13:19:52 GMT
I mean the hope is after 6 years of abject failure and utter mismanagement the penny will finally drop. If it was going to, it would have done by now. If anything they've given the manager even more power. Of course, because it's the easiest thing to do and blame if it doesn't work. |
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 7, 2022 13:21:54 GMT
This was needed before we were relegated. We hoped relegation would wake them up and finally make them realise. It didn't. What's the answer? Because at the minute, I can't see one I like with the Coates family remaining as owners. They've been asleep at the wheel for 6 years. We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. Who gives a fuck if they're local, they're completely arrogant and naive. They run this club like it's 2008 and they don't see anything wrong with that. They threw away the greatest position this club has ever and will ever be in, just look at the likes of Wolves, Southampton, Leicester, Brighton etc we're a fucking million miles away from them right now and we had practically an unlimited budget. We can keep changing the manager, nothing will change long term, you only have to see Rowett & Jones sitting in the top 10 with smaller clubs, with a fraction of our budget to realise that the problems run a lot fucking deeper than the whichever manager may be in charge at any one time. |
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Post by J-Roar on Mar 7, 2022 13:32:14 GMT
We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. Who gives a fuck if they're local, they're completely arrogant and naive. They run this club like it's 2008 and they don't see anything wrong with that. They threw away the greatest position this club has ever and will ever be in, just look at the likes of Wolves, Southampton, Leicester, Brighton etc we're a fucking million miles away from them right now and we had practically an unlimited budget. We can keep changing the manager, nothing will change long term, you only have to see Rowett & Jones sitting in the top 10 with smaller clubs, with a fraction of our budget to realise that the problems run a lot fucking deeper than the whichever manager may be in charge at any one time. I like them being local tbh. I agree with all your points about them though. |
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samuel32
Youth Player
Jack Clarke's Shorts
Posts: 367
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Post by samuel32 on Mar 7, 2022 13:37:49 GMT
We’ve now got Andy Cousins as head of football. Whatever that is. The problem is that Andy Cousins isn't independent of O'Neil. He's is pal who MON brought to the club. Sack MON and Andy Cousins will in all likelihood go as well. I don't even know what qualifies Andy Cousins to be head of football apart from being MON's mate. We need a vision for the club that's bigger than the manager. |
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Post by kidcrewbob on Mar 7, 2022 13:45:28 GMT
We need a modern thinking COACH - not a meat'n'taters Mike Bassett
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 7, 2022 13:46:42 GMT
Who gives a fuck if they're local, they're completely arrogant and naive. They run this club like it's 2008 and they don't see anything wrong with that. They threw away the greatest position this club has ever and will ever be in, just look at the likes of Wolves, Southampton, Leicester, Brighton etc we're a fucking million miles away from them right now and we had practically an unlimited budget. We can keep changing the manager, nothing will change long term, you only have to see Rowett & Jones sitting in the top 10 with smaller clubs, with a fraction of our budget to realise that the problems run a lot fucking deeper than the whichever manager may be in charge at any one time. I like them being local tbh. I agree with all your points about them though. I like the fact they're local but I know some fan's think that's the reason they should stay and that the thought of foreign investment sends shivers down their spines. |
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 7, 2022 13:50:44 GMT
A DOF would be another mouth to feed and we're not in a position to do that at the moment with FFP. And what's to say that we don't appoint the wrong DOF? It would also require a special bond between the manager and the DOF. Could somebody tell me how many clubs with a DOF are doing better than ones without them? I can name you one where it hasn't made any significant difference, and it's only just up the road.
OS.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 14:10:54 GMT
We need them to wake up, I want them as owners. They're local, they care and they've done so much for the club and the city. We need them to make better decisions, which ironically involves them making less decisions and leaving them up to footballing people, such as a DOF. I take your point about whether they will do that, I think we have to hope they will because I don't see anyone else with deep pockets taking us on. Who gives a fuck if they're local, they're completely arrogant and naive. They run this club like it's 2008 and they don't see anything wrong with that. They threw away the greatest position this club has ever and will ever be in, just look at the likes of Wolves, Southampton, Leicester, Brighton etc we're a fucking million miles away from them right now and we had practically an unlimited budget. We can keep changing the manager, nothing will change long term, you only have to see Rowett & Jones sitting in the top 10 with smaller clubs, with a fraction of our budget to realise that the problems run a lot fucking deeper than the whichever manager may be in charge at any one time. Naive perhaps, arrogant is too far for me. The best interests of the town and club are at their heart, I've no doubt of that and it's why I want things to change for the better under them. It's am emotional topic so I do get where you're coming from, but they have provided me with some of the best memories and days of my entire life. They ran the club pretty well at one point, so although it's painfully slow I don't see how we can rule out them finally adapting and doing so once again in the modern era. Who do you think would take us on? SOT has a lower population than Derby who have one club. We have Port Vale, Newcastle Town and Crewe right next door. We're never going to be commercially that viable as paired with a relatively small pool of fans, SOT sadly isn't very fashionable or wealthy thanks to the Tory party. Look at the state of Derby, Sunderland, Ashley's Newcastle, Leeds for bloody ages... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 14:42:32 GMT
Personally I think the problem runs deeper than that, the club reflects what British society has increasingly become, a regime to be complied with.
The players, they will just do enough to keep their noses clean and out of the firing line and comply with the rules of the regime as long as their contract is lucrative enough.
Evidently they are not deciding to kneel for BLM out of their own personal choice, as one would have done it on Saturday and none did. This would seem there is a restriction on players being allowed to freely express themselves.
Why rock the boat and even try to perform in this form of regime?
Rowett, Jones now MoN are all having identical problems with the players.
As an afterthought this is why there is a lack of leaders at the club, who dares to lead when it may upset the regime, easier to keep your head beneath the parapet and see out the contract. Now how many players could possibly fall under that category?
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Mar 7, 2022 14:48:46 GMT
We have no idea if John Coates is capable of running a football club. It requires a skillset that isn't just throwing money at it. It's great they're fans and 'care' for the club but so do many tens of thousands. They're the custodians of it and unfortunately have made a very poor job of running it for the past six years.
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Post by jokker on Mar 7, 2022 14:52:03 GMT
Would having a Director of Football cause unrest between that person and the manager? I apologise for being naive but what does the Director of football job entail? Is it recruiting? The last person to have that position at Stoke was John Rudge. If we went down that route then maybe MON be put into that role and Holden or another is brought in as first team coach The last two home games haven’t give me any confidence currently in the system we are playing. It was identified we are weak in the final 3rd, but Saturday we had nothing to support Maja. The set up was completely wrong from the ko. If it came to that I would name Holden or someone else as the DOF and keep O'Neill as the coach. Because coaching is what he is good at, one of the best in the game. The majority of the players are here, because they want to work with him - okay the bet365 cash comes into it too. There's very few, if any, players that want to leave because of O'Neill. I might give the AM/DOF more to say in game managing, but I would not get rid of O'Neill. |
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