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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 11, 2022 14:06:20 GMT
Does it bother anyone where our owners money comes from? I couldn’t give a shit but I know a lot do. Actually it bothers me a bit too. But don’t look for consistency in politics because you won’t find it. I’m not. Just find it interesting.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 11, 2022 14:08:51 GMT
Does it bother anyone where our owners money comes from? I couldn’t give a shit but I know a lot do. I do. I'm not completely comfortable being owned by a betting company and won't buy or wear anything with Bet365 on it (personal choice - I'm not here to criticise anyone who does). However if I was a Chelsea or a Newcastle fan I would have walked away. I'm sure some 'whatabout' may say 'but you don't know how much petrol in your tank comes fron Saudi' or some such but there's a line - and egregious sportswashing - for me at least - is that line. I agree, I would walk away and go and support my local non-league club and watch results from afar as much as it would pain me........
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 11, 2022 14:11:40 GMT
Almost certainly me but feels to me like Chelsea are a easy target for the MPS and government keen to be seen to do something , no one has to my knowledge proven the owner guilty of anything except being Russian and extremely successful and if guilt is by association then the royals and the government might want to look. Closet to home in terms fo asset freezing.
This in no way demonstrates a lack of support for Ukraine but this feels like an action designed to create noise not delver tangible harm to the Russias or support to the Ukrainians , of anyone thinks Putin will stop because RA is pissed off about Chelsea then its deluded
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Post by scfc75 on Mar 11, 2022 14:14:19 GMT
Almost certainly me but feels to me like Chelsea are a easy target for the MPS and government keen to be seen to do something , no one has to my knowledge proven the owner guilty of anything except being Russian and extremely successful and if guilt is by association then the royals and the government might want to look. Closet to home in terms fo asset freezing. This in no way demonstrates a lack of support for Ukraine but this feels like an action designed to create noise not delver tangible harm to the Russias or support to the Ukrainians , of anyone thinks Putin will stop because RA is pissed off about Chelsea then its deluded His steel company supplies materials to the Russian army Benj, that they then use to murder Ukrainians.
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Post by dirtclod on Mar 11, 2022 15:52:04 GMT
Owns a steel company, which supplies the Russian military. Also owns a couple of smaller companies (through holding companies) that produce parts for Russian military assets.
He made billions by buying former state-owned companies and flipping them. Had the cash at the time and used it to create an empire. He's no dummy. He definitely deserves being a target, whether he goes bear-riding with Putin or not.
Doubt it will change much going forward. The PL/EFL circus runs on money (Just like our US Congress)- they only care when public-opinion turns. I wouldn't expect much in the way of reforms. Maybe they can get someone from the Taliban or ISIS to buy them next.
I've been cursed with a couple of Chelsea fans over here and they are feeling a bit contrite these days. (Only after he's been outed, you'll notice)
The only way they can pay for their sins & rehabilitate in my book is through the self-flagellation process of becoming Stoke fans. Nah forget it, I don't want to hang around with the deluded twats. Edit: Well...IF...they became true Stoke fans... I'd probably start to suspect their sanity, but I blather on.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 11, 2022 18:09:27 GMT
Almost certainly me but feels to me like Chelsea are a easy target for the MPS and government keen to be seen to do something , no one has to my knowledge proven the owner guilty of anything except being Russian and extremely successful and if guilt is by association then the royals and the government might want to look. Closet to home in terms fo asset freezing. This in no way demonstrates a lack of support for Ukraine but this feels like an action designed to create noise not delver tangible harm to the Russias or support to the Ukrainians , of anyone thinks Putin will stop because RA is pissed off about Chelsea then its deluded His steel company supplies materials to the Russian army Benj, that they then use to murder Ukrainians. If that’s the case then fair enough
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 11, 2022 18:25:04 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 11, 2022 19:57:25 GMT
I have a feeling the PL will bend over backwards to keep them afloat. Extensions etc.
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Post by nonameface on Mar 11, 2022 20:25:07 GMT
How can they prove Roman wouldn’t profit from the sale?
He could just have money paid to some well hidden bank account outside of this country.
Good time for the premier league to get it so Chelsea are owned by the fans.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 11, 2022 20:57:27 GMT
I actually agree with this, why penalise fans for wanting to support the team. If any ticket sales are made these will just be frozen anyway. I suppose you could say the same about Russian mainland sanctions. The Russian public aren't to blame for Putin's actions, but no doubt they'll be the ones who suffer far more than those in the Kremlin. The sanctions are designed so that the top echelons of business/society/politics have to change whatever they've been sanctioned for, before the whole lot comes crashing down on them as the bottoms rungs of society implode. The difference is that Chelsea fans cannot put any pressure on Putin, while the Russian public can. And penalizing Chelsea does not hurt Abramovich anymore, in fact I’d argue that he may be wishing them harm by now.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 12, 2022 11:30:23 GMT
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 12, 2022 11:35:18 GMT
They are connected to too many influential, extremely wealthy people so they will be fine. If it was the likes of Barnsley who had Russian owners I wonder how much flexibility there would be there?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 12, 2022 11:44:55 GMT
They are connected to too many influential, extremely wealthy people so they will be fine. If it was the likes of Barnsley who had Russian owners I wonder how much flexibility there would be there? I’m amazed that there’s been no challenge made re how they won their titles and because of whom. Surely if they’re going to look at his assets being frozen they should also look at removing titles like they did with Rangers. Regardless of who their new owner is as a club they will always be tainted now.
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shooters
Youth Player
POTTER POWER
Posts: 474
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Post by shooters on Mar 12, 2022 12:02:46 GMT
They are connected to too many influential, extremely wealthy people so they will be fine. If it was the likes of Barnsley who had Russian owners I wonder how much flexibility there would be there? I’m amazed that there’s been no challenge made re how they won their titles and because of whom. Surely if they’re going to look at his assets being frozen they should also look at removing titles like they did with Rangers. Regardless of who their new owner is as a club they will always be tainted now. Its worthless. Any money paid over to buy it is cleaning his dirty money stolen from the Russian people when he was given assets. They will go bust, Chelsea 22 Fc with no history. They had the highs as fans and now they will have to take the lows.
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 12, 2022 12:10:57 GMT
Inevitable really being a London club with political links, and many politicians with (gifted) season ticket holders. I don't agree btw, i think the govt should stand firm, but ... Boris and Co, russian money in the tory party, tories lacking in any morals, and the entire party corrupt as fuck anyway, means that the British govt is laundering RA money for him.
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Post by Gods on Mar 12, 2022 12:53:49 GMT
The usual hilarious knockabout stuff from writing genius that is Maria Hyde. Do you remember Roman Abramovich’s much-vaunted role as peacebroker between Ukraine and Russia? A full 11 days ago in Russia’s repulsive war of choice on Ukraine, the erstwhile Chelsea owner was reported to be engineering some kind of impeccably connected end to hostilities. Can I shock you? This has turned out to be cobblers. So Abramovich was on Team Putin the whole time. Who knew
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 12, 2022 13:32:21 GMT
The usual hilarious knockabout stuff from writing genius that is Maria Hyde. Do you remember Roman Abramovich’s much-vaunted role as peacebroker between Ukraine and Russia? A full 11 days ago in Russia’s repulsive war of choice on Ukraine, the erstwhile Chelsea owner was reported to be engineering some kind of impeccably connected end to hostilities. Can I shock you? This has turned out to be cobblers. So Abramovich was on Team Putin the whole time. Who knewClassic PR crisis stuff. Get a story out and hope it sticks long enough to get out of jail. Not that he was going to end up in any kind of jail anyway. I'm totally against demonising Russians because they are Russians btw. It's immoral, but anyone who thinks RA has not been in cahoots with Putin's regime is living in cloud cuckoo land. Of course, no-one was much bothered while it suited all sides of course.
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Post by staffsvilla on Mar 12, 2022 13:35:05 GMT
The only comment I would make is I wonder how many people on here constructed JCB models being used by the Russian army ? How many people moaned when the Chelsea hotel was made available free to the NHS during the pandemic by RA? Just saying ........
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Post by stokefc on Mar 12, 2022 13:40:50 GMT
The only comment I would make is I wonder how many people on here constructed JCB models being used by the Russian army ? How many people moaned when the Chelsea hotel was made available free to the NHS during the pandemic by RA? Just saying ........ But isn't that before Putin became a massive cunt or should we have all foreseen that
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Post by Veritas on Mar 12, 2022 13:42:41 GMT
The only comment I would make is I wonder how many people on here constructed JCB models being used by the Russian army ? How many people moaned when the Chelsea hotel was made available free to the NHS during the pandemic by RA? Just saying ........ But isn't that before Putin became a massive cunt or should we have all foreseen that Yes we should and many did
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 12, 2022 14:00:00 GMT
I’m amazed that there’s been no challenge made re how they won their titles and because of whom. Surely if they’re going to look at his assets being frozen they should also look at removing titles like they did with Rangers. Regardless of who their new owner is as a club they will always be tainted now. Its worthless. Any money paid over to buy it is cleaning his dirty money stolen from the Russian people when he was given assets. They will go bust, Chelsea 22 Fc with no history. They had the highs as fans and now they will have to take the lows. That’s my take on it. If you can take the success being bought you can’t complain when things go wrong. They’re a mid table PL club who’ve bought success earnt immorally.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 12, 2022 15:53:08 GMT
They are connected to too many influential, extremely wealthy people so they will be fine. If it was the likes of Barnsley who had Russian owners I wonder how much flexibility there would be there? I’m amazed that there’s been no challenge made re how they won their titles and because of whom. Surely if they’re going to look at his assets being frozen they should also look at removing titles like they did with Rangers. Regardless of who their new owner is as a club they will always be tainted now. The sanctions are a result of the invasion. Clearly when they won their titles, they did it legitimately (even if we don't agree with the concept of being able to buy titles). If we were to erase history everytime something changes in the world, England, South Africa, and just about every other nation probably wouldn't exist anymore. Going back and pretending to change history doen't achieve anything.
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Post by thepottypotter on Mar 13, 2022 1:54:45 GMT
Money buys you a lot of influence. Hence why the Tories were dragging their feet for so long to sanction him. The main reasons western governments care so much about this war is because: 1. It is on the doorstep of the EU so it’s close 2. Nearly all of the casualties are white They can’t use racist tropes and arguments to distance themselves from the horror like they did for Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc. Wow! So far from reality it’s almost laughable. I suppose the reason “western governments” cared when Hitler kicked off was “ Nearly all of the casualties are white”? How about Vietnam, Kuwait, Korea, et al? Why do non-western governments care about the conflict in Ukraine? Not everything revolves around race or the EU. We have a nuclear super power flexing its muscles. I’ve got news for you ….. if nukes start being lobbed, suddenly people will stop worrying about superficial things (like skin color or the size of your bank account or petty political point scoring) and get down to what’s really important like saving lives. As you brought up Hitler, the context was that in the 1930s the Nazis had very close links with all of the European ruling classes. They were close ties to our royal family, most obviously with Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson. There was a serious attempt to bring fascism into mainstream politics with the British Union of Fascists (BUF), the 'Blackshirts' led by Sir Oswald Mosely. Who, as an aside, I am pleased to say didn't get elected as MP for Stoke despire his wife previously holding the seat. The BUF was supported by some of the main newspapers at the time with the Daily Mail running its infamous 1934 frontpage 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts.' What stopped fascism in it's tracks in the UK in the 30s was a large, popular anti-fascist movement. This culminated in the 1936 Battle for Cable Street It was organised working class people predominantly Irish and Jewish dockers in the East End but workers from all nationalities came together to oppose fascism. Newsreeel footage can be seen here link Despite the best efforts of the Metropolitan Police led by Sir Philip Game to ensure the safety of the fascists (you can see the horses charging the workers in the footage) only when it became clear that the police couldn't ensure their safety, did the blackshirts turn back and fascism had been stopped in the UK from becoming mainstream. Western governments were very reluctantly dragged into the Second World War as fascism was deemed to be incompatible with their form of capitalism because they had large, popular anti-fascist movements . Only in other countries where the workers movement was completely defeated (Germany in the late 1920s/early 1930s) did fascism rise to prominence. All the other wars you cited are various examples of imperialism (which as Lenin accurately described, is the highest stage of capitalism). Vietnam/Korea it was about the US combatting Communism. Kuwait it was about protecting oil supplies for the West. Non-western governments care about Ukraine for a large variety of different reasons which can't be generalised. All that can be said overall is that imperialism is a system with differing nation states competing militarily to ensure the best conditions for their own capitalist classes and corporations. For example, China is very interested to see what the response from the West is because, if Russia gets away with the conflict in Ukraine then it will embolden China to invade Taiwan. Ukraine poses a challenge for India because India’s of its strategic dependence on Russia, as well as its security priorities in the Indo-Pacific which requires strong support from the US - hence it is trying to navigate and balance this contradiction. This led it to abstain on the UN vote condemning the invasion.
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Post by sizzlepot on Mar 13, 2022 2:30:00 GMT
Wow! So far from reality it’s almost laughable. I suppose the reason “western governments” cared when Hitler kicked off was “ Nearly all of the casualties are white”? How about Vietnam, Kuwait, Korea, et al? Why do non-western governments care about the conflict in Ukraine? Not everything revolves around race or the EU. We have a nuclear super power flexing its muscles. I’ve got news for you ….. if nukes start being lobbed, suddenly people will stop worrying about superficial things (like skin color or the size of your bank account or petty political point scoring) and get down to what’s really important like saving lives. As you brought up Hitler, the context was that in the 1930s the Nazis had very close links with all of the European ruling classes. They were close ties to our royal family, most obviously with Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson. There was a serious attempt to bring fascism into mainstream politics with the British Union of Fascists (BUF), the 'Blackshirts' led by Sir Oswald Mosely. Who, as an aside, I am pleased to say didn't get elected as MP for Stoke despire his wife previously holding the seat. The BUF was supported by some of the main newspapers at the time with the Daily Mail running its infamous 1934 frontpage 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts.' What stopped fascism in it's tracks in the UK in the 30s was a large, popular anti-fascist movement. This culminated in the 1936 Battle for Cable Street It was organised working class people predominantly Irish and Jewish dockers in the East End but workers from all nationalities came together to oppose fascism. Newsreeel footage can be seen here link Despite the best efforts of the Metropolitan Police led by Sir Philip Game to ensure the safety of the fascists (you can see the horses charging the workers in the footage) only when it became clear that the police couldn't ensure their safety, did the blackshirts turn back and fascism had been stopped in the UK from becoming mainstream. Western governments were very reluctantly dragged into the Second World War as fascism was deemed to be incompatible with their form of capitalism because they had large, popular anti-fascist movements . Only in other countries where the workers movement was completely defeated (Germany in the late 1920s/early 1930s) did fascism rise to prominence. All the other wars you cited are various example of imperialism (which as Lenin accurately described, is the highest stage of capitalism). Vietnam/Korea it was about the US combatting Communism. Kuwait it was about protecting oil supplies for the West. Non-western governments care about Ukraine for a large variety of different reasons which can't be generalised. All that can be said overall is that imperialism is a system with differing nation states competing militarily to ensure the best conditions for their own capitalist classes and corporations. For example, China cares for example to see what the response from the West is because, if Russia gets away with the conflict in Ukraine then it will embolden China to invade Taiwan. Ukraine poses a challenge for India because India’s of its strategic dependence on Russia, as well as its security priorities in the Indo-Pacific which requires strong support from the US - hence it is trying to navigate and balance this contradiction. This led it to abstain on the UN vote condemning the invasion. Thank you Potty... a bit of our history I'd never heard about. Quite a story and the news reel footage was immense. I would add to the discussion that not many people in the west give a shit about the Yemenis. But we don't want to upset all those rich Princes or slow the flow of oil. Seems the world can be quite particular about what atrocities it cares about.
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Post by Boothen on Mar 13, 2022 5:39:05 GMT
The only comment I would make is I wonder how many people on here constructed JCB models being used by the Russian army ? How many people moaned when the Chelsea hotel was made available free to the NHS during the pandemic by RA? Just saying ........ But isn't that before Putin became a massive cunt or should we have all foreseen that Some of the everyday shit that has gone on in Russia under Putin but never gets reported in the 'West' is crazy, and not just 'insane' crazy but scary crazy. Putin has always been a massive cunt, it's just this time the cunt has gone fucking mental.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 13, 2022 8:56:13 GMT
Some observations from twitter re Chelsea
- They have a huge following in Africa. - They’re turning Abramavic into some sort of martyr. - Morals in sport don’t seem to count for anything even when people are losing their lives. - Chelsea are victims and have been targeted by the govt.
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Post by proudstokie on Mar 13, 2022 9:03:38 GMT
Aren’t Bournemouth subject to Russian ownership?
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Post by thepottypotter on Mar 13, 2022 10:49:09 GMT
Some observations from twitter re Chelsea - They have a huge following in Africa. - They’re turning Abramavic into some sort of martyr. - Morals in sport don’t seem to count for anything even when people are losing their lives. - Chelsea are victims and have been targeted by the govt. Great examples of when everyone needs clear politics to be able to accurately counter arguments like these.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 13, 2022 11:04:09 GMT
Wow! So far from reality it’s almost laughable. I suppose the reason “western governments” cared when Hitler kicked off was “ Nearly all of the casualties are white”? How about Vietnam, Kuwait, Korea, et al? Why do non-western governments care about the conflict in Ukraine? Not everything revolves around race or the EU. We have a nuclear super power flexing its muscles. I’ve got news for you ….. if nukes start being lobbed, suddenly people will stop worrying about superficial things (like skin color or the size of your bank account or petty political point scoring) and get down to what’s really important like saving lives. As you brought up Hitler, the context was that in the 1930s the Nazis had very close links with all of the European ruling classes. They were close ties to our royal family, most obviously with Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson. There was a serious attempt to bring fascism into mainstream politics with the British Union of Fascists (BUF), the 'Blackshirts' led by Sir Oswald Mosely. Who, as an aside, I am pleased to say didn't get elected as MP for Stoke despire his wife previously holding the seat. The BUF was supported by some of the main newspapers at the time with the Daily Mail running its infamous 1934 frontpage 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts.' What stopped fascism in it's tracks in the UK in the 30s was a large, popular anti-fascist movement. This culminated in the 1936 Battle for Cable Street It was organised working class people predominantly Irish and Jewish dockers in the East End but workers from all nationalities came together to oppose fascism. Newsreeel footage can be seen here link Despite the best efforts of the Metropolitan Police led by Sir Philip Game to ensure the safety of the fascists (you can see the horses charging the workers in the footage) only when it became clear that the police couldn't ensure their safety, did the blackshirts turn back and fascism had been stopped in the UK from becoming mainstream. Western governments were very reluctantly dragged into the Second World War as fascism was deemed to be incompatible with their form of capitalism because they had large, popular anti-fascist movements . Only in other countries where the workers movement was completely defeated (Germany in the late 1920s/early 1930s) did fascism rise to prominence. All the other wars you cited are various examples of imperialism (which as Lenin accurately described, is the highest stage of capitalism). Vietnam/Korea it was about the US combatting Communism. Kuwait it was about protecting oil supplies for the West. Non-western governments care about Ukraine for a large variety of different reasons which can't be generalised. All that can be said overall is that imperialism is a system with differing nation states competing militarily to ensure the best conditions for their own capitalist classes and corporations. For example, China is very interested to see what the response from the West is because, if Russia gets away with the conflict in Ukraine then it will embolden China to invade Taiwan. Ukraine poses a challenge for India because India’s of its strategic dependence on Russia, as well as its security priorities in the Indo-Pacific which requires strong support from the US - hence it is trying to navigate and balance this contradiction. This led it to abstain on the UN vote condemning the invasion. Thanks for the effort of a very informative (also very biased) viewpoint. I still call BS on your comments that the world (not just the west, but it applies equally to them), is only involved because the majority of deaths are white people and your most recent comment that they’re not stopping the conflict just to keep oil flowing. If this degenerates into WW3, there won’t be any pieces left to pick up. Russia, China, Korea, and I suspect many Middle East countries and possibly India and the “Stan’s” against Europe, USA, Canada and Australia (with Africa and the rest of America watching from the sidelines) does not end well for anyone. That’s why more aggressive action is not being taken.
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Post by thepottypotter on Mar 13, 2022 11:42:26 GMT
As you brought up Hitler, the context was that in the 1930s the Nazis had very close links with all of the European ruling classes. They were close ties to our royal family, most obviously with Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson. There was a serious attempt to bring fascism into mainstream politics with the British Union of Fascists (BUF), the 'Blackshirts' led by Sir Oswald Mosely. Who, as an aside, I am pleased to say didn't get elected as MP for Stoke despire his wife previously holding the seat. The BUF was supported by some of the main newspapers at the time with the Daily Mail running its infamous 1934 frontpage 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts.' What stopped fascism in it's tracks in the UK in the 30s was a large, popular anti-fascist movement. This culminated in the 1936 Battle for Cable Street It was organised working class people predominantly Irish and Jewish dockers in the East End but workers from all nationalities came together to oppose fascism. Newsreeel footage can be seen here link Despite the best efforts of the Metropolitan Police led by Sir Philip Game to ensure the safety of the fascists (you can see the horses charging the workers in the footage) only when it became clear that the police couldn't ensure their safety, did the blackshirts turn back and fascism had been stopped in the UK from becoming mainstream. Western governments were very reluctantly dragged into the Second World War as fascism was deemed to be incompatible with their form of capitalism because they had large, popular anti-fascist movements . Only in other countries where the workers movement was completely defeated (Germany in the late 1920s/early 1930s) did fascism rise to prominence. All the other wars you cited are various examples of imperialism (which as Lenin accurately described, is the highest stage of capitalism). Vietnam/Korea it was about the US combatting Communism. Kuwait it was about protecting oil supplies for the West. Non-western governments care about Ukraine for a large variety of different reasons which can't be generalised. All that can be said overall is that imperialism is a system with differing nation states competing militarily to ensure the best conditions for their own capitalist classes and corporations. For example, China is very interested to see what the response from the West is because, if Russia gets away with the conflict in Ukraine then it will embolden China to invade Taiwan. Ukraine poses a challenge for India because India’s of its strategic dependence on Russia, as well as its security priorities in the Indo-Pacific which requires strong support from the US - hence it is trying to navigate and balance this contradiction. This led it to abstain on the UN vote condemning the invasion. Thanks for the effort of a very informative (also very biased) viewpoint. I still call BS on your comments that the world (not just the west, but it applies equally to them), is only involved because the majority of deaths are white people and your most recent comment that they’re not stopping the conflict just to keep oil flowing. If this degenerates into WW3, there won’t be any pieces left to pick up. Russia, China, Korea, and I suspect many Middle East countries and possibly India and the “Stan’s” against Europe, USA, Canada and Australia (with Africa and the rest of America watching from the sidelines) does not end well for anyone. That’s why more aggressive action is not being taken. Hopefully my last post on this back and forth: 1. ‘Biased’ what you call biased is from my perspective a consistent and coherent political viewpoint (which is extremely lacking in contemporary politics).I am a proud socialist and I start from the point of view of the working class. This viewpoint is underpinned by historical materialism - using the principles of science, reason, logic and evidence to understand politics. On this basis, I always stand on the side of the majority - real democracy of the working class and the oppressed. 2. I never said it being about white people being the only reason. The point was just about highlighting the different vastly differing narratives around these refugees. Syria for 10 years now, has experienced even worse devastation than currently in Ukraine with entire cities levelled, millions of refugees fleeing and when they try to get into the EU they are described as ‘security threats’, potential terrorists/members of ISIS and they are herded into refugee camps in Turkey and Greece. VISA restrictions aren’t dropped for them and they aren’t welcomed with warm arms into the EU. If not due to racism, what explains this vastly different approach on the part of the EU and the West? 3. I never said Ukraine was about keeping the oil flowing. That comment was just to explain Kuwait. I hope we can agree to disagree now and part amicably with us both having made our points clear.
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