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Post by spitthedog on Feb 24, 2022 19:39:49 GMT
So presumably you don't rate Wilder as a good manager then? It just highlights the various components and factors that contribute to a manager being successful or unsuccessful at any one club at any one time. All of which are very dynamic. I think it's more nuanced than that. A manager can do a good job then go stale or lose the plot. It happened to our best two managers of recent times. Wilder did a great job there for a long time and is doing a great job at Boro but he lost the plot in between with some ropey man management and awful recruitment. Rowett is a decent enough manager for a certain type of club but his mighty mouse routine wasn't at all suitable to a club our size and with our resources and the expectations that inevitably come with that. I agree it is more nuanced and managerial success/appointment is the very opposite of an exact science, but that is how it is often portrayed.
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Post by swampySCFC on Feb 24, 2022 19:50:04 GMT
Think in fairness nothing he said was contentious and we did beat them at their place so that’s football. Big problem for us is what we do next. Long term we should be better than Luton
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 24, 2022 19:57:59 GMT
I think Powell & Clucas to name the main culprits - epitomises what Nathan Jones was referring to. Powell a once upon a time talent who still thinks he's gods gift, but isnt. Look at some of the Man City players how they work hard off the ball to get it back and dont give it away easily - everything that Powell & Clucas are not. Its up to the manager to sort the character in players. Thats what made Stoke a difficult team to beat when we were last in the championship then premier League. Ignore that at our peril. We are a mediocre club with mediocre players & management at the moment this is stoke fans in a nutshell, Nick Powell (been our stand out player, when fit, for 2 years) has 2 bad games and your putting him in the same sentence as sam clucas, get a grip!!! Powell is a gifted and naturally talented footballer, but maybe his attitude is very similar to Clucas in which case Jones is right. No matter what talent you possess it's irrelevant in a team game if you haven't got a basic winning mentality and we haven't had one of those players for a good few years now, not a fucking single one. Jones is bang on the money, he didn't just inherit a handful of wasters he inherited a squad full. No wonder he became unhinged towards the end.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2022 20:13:01 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no?
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 24, 2022 20:58:10 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? That's OK then. As long as we manage to get the better of mad Nath every season...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2022 21:14:15 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? That's OK then. As long as we manage to get the better of mad Nath every season... Fairly obviously not my point...
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 24, 2022 21:46:17 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? I'd say based on the resources of the two clubs we should be whipping them 4 out of every 5.
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Post by manxstokie on Feb 24, 2022 21:54:58 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? How many of last nights first 11 started the last time we played Luton
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2022 22:01:50 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? I'd say based on the resources of the two clubs we should be whipping them 4 out of every 5. Yep. That's football. We were shit last night, don't get me wrong, but it does happen. Last night was absolutely garbage but I'm not going to get carried away about it just as I didn't after the Swansea win. My point was more that Jones is being deified on this thread as some sort of prophet but if he was that clever he wouldn't have lost his previous three against us.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2022 22:02:58 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? How many of last nights first 11 started the last time we played Luton Three. I'd argue the side we put out last night, player for player, is better than the one that beat them last time.
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 24, 2022 22:37:45 GMT
I'd say based on the resources of the two clubs we should be whipping them 4 out of every 5. Yep. That's football. We were shit last night, don't get me wrong, but it does happen. Last night was absolutely garbage but I'm not going to get carried away about it just as I didn't after the Swansea win. My point was more that Jones is being deified on this thread as some sort of prophet but if he was that clever he wouldn't have lost his previous three against us. Jones isn't being 'deified', quite the opposite, the vitriol towards him is a little embarrassing to be fair.
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Post by foxysgloves on Feb 24, 2022 22:41:12 GMT
Let’s be honest.
Jones is a bit of a dick. And a bluffer.
He can’t keep going the way he is. He’ll either have a heart attack or end up having a breakdown. Or both.
He means well but he makes the Joker look stable.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2022 22:42:15 GMT
Yep. That's football. We were shit last night, don't get me wrong, but it does happen. Last night was absolutely garbage but I'm not going to get carried away about it just as I didn't after the Swansea win. My point was more that Jones is being deified on this thread as some sort of prophet but if he was that clever he wouldn't have lost his previous three against us. Jones isn't being 'deified', quite the opposite, the vitriol towards him is a little embarrassing to be fair. He's being talked up plenty on this thread by people as if he's some kind of sage.
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Post by roylandstoke on Feb 24, 2022 23:22:30 GMT
That cunt took my club back 10 years. He can fuck off and when he gets there he can fuck off again. No he didn't. You are blaming the wrong horse there. He did not perform for us but to suggest he was responsible for setting us back 10 years is just emotional nonsense. If he had stayed in post we would have been relegated to the third tier- we hadn't been there for more than 10 years.
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Post by tosh on Feb 25, 2022 0:16:34 GMT
Jones isn't being 'deified', quite the opposite, the vitriol towards him is a little embarrassing to be fair. He's being talked up plenty on this thread by people as if he's some kind of sage. But his team on a budget a fraction of ours, finished the last season above us. They look like doing it again by a bigger margin this season, possibly making the playoffs. He also had one of the country’s top scoring, twice promoted teams for a couple of seasons before messing up at Stoke. I’d say his CV suggests he’s one of the top candidates available for a low budget ambitious club.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 25, 2022 7:58:49 GMT
He's being talked up plenty on this thread by people as if he's some kind of sage. But his team on a budget a fraction of ours, finished the last season above us. They look like doing it again by a bigger margin this season, possibly making the playoffs. He also had one of the country’s top scoring, twice promoted teams for a couple of seasons before messing up at Stoke. I’d say his CV suggests he’s one of the top candidates available for a low budget ambitious club. Absolutely. He’s doing a great job there. I’m not denigrating that. I’m just saying that for a bloke so apparently wise to all our weaknesses and issues, it’s taken him four goes to do anything about it. Clearly a good manager for them but he is prone to saying silly things.
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shooters
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Post by shooters on Feb 25, 2022 8:07:19 GMT
They had 4 midfield players out and had a makeshift set up. Ouch, that just makes tonight's performance even worse to take. No arguments with anything he said and he was indeed very respectful to Stoke and I admired his admission that he accepted that he played his part in our downfall. He was awful for us but bloody good for Luton and good luck to him. You can't question the enthusiasm of the guy and the super job he is doing for Luton, with very limited resources. Would be nice to see some of that passion from O'Neill. At that time , i thought of taking a relegation and him Rebuilding to storm league one with a young energetic side and have an obvious plan. Maybe MON is just a bit more of a wise business decision, more mature. A longer term plan but without the relegation hence mid table and sometimes crap/sometimes great too watch.
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Post by stokiesteve on Feb 25, 2022 9:10:10 GMT
Pretty reasonable TBH. Some graciousness and humility when talking about the crowd ("They've had a tough time...I didn't help with that") and he's right in what he says. We are a demanding crowd relative to this level; but I don't think unreasonably so and I don't think the aggregate performances since relegation have come even close to satisfying our totally reasonable demands. Interesting point of view mate For me, our expectation is part of the problem and I think every manager that has been here since we were relegated has felt that. There is a lot of pressure on managers who come here due to our financial backing and supporter expectation. We didnt expect anything under Pulis which is why we were so vocal and delighted to be in the Premier League. I don't know how this ends but I hope we don't do a Sunderland , who are a similar club. We need someone who can come in and just start it all again. Jones tried to do that but the players didnt cotton on to his energy probably for the reasons he says in his interview , they were lazy and just turned up without a fire in their bellies. That's what Hughes installed unfortunately I wish Nathan all the very best. He speak from the heart which is rare nowadays.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 25, 2022 9:27:08 GMT
Seeing that team he’s assembled really does make the signings he made here even more bewildering. He promised fit young boys and he’s got fit young boys. Who the fuck convinced him to sign so many old men when he was here?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 25, 2022 9:55:28 GMT
Seeing that team he’s assembled really does make the signings he made here even more bewildering. He promised fit young boys and he’s got fit young boys. Who the fuck convinced him to sign so many old men when he was here? I always wondered if the state of the dressing room somehow convinced him he needed to prioritise ‘leaders’ hence signing a bunch of journeymen, some of whom were captains of their clubs. It was a crazy decision, his entire system that he was evangelical about depended on the type of players you describe and he signed virtually nobody like that. Even more bizarre was Powell’s disappearance (he wasn’t injured all the time he was out) given he’s clearly capable of being the hard pressing 10 that’s key to the diamond working.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 25, 2022 11:26:16 GMT
Seeing that team he’s assembled really does make the signings he made here even more bewildering. He promised fit young boys and he’s got fit young boys. Who the fuck convinced him to sign so many old men when he was here? He signed Cameron Jerome at 34? and the guy who scored looks about 38.
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Post by boothenesque on Feb 25, 2022 15:04:57 GMT
Ouch! The truth hurts. I suppose it's all about opinions but and much as I would like to not agree with him, I think he is right, we just don't ave that fight, desire and passion to want it enough.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 15:18:19 GMT
Wish O'Neil would fire his players up like that, and get in the oppositions faces!!! Jones failed miserably v us 3 times previously. 3 losses, no goals. Let's not make out he has something special to fire players up
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 25, 2022 15:36:07 GMT
Wish O'Neil would fire his players up like that, and get in the oppositions faces!!! Jones failed miserably v us 3 times previously. 3 losses, no goals. Let's not make out he has something special to fire players up This is true, but on the night his assessment of what went on happens to be pretty much spot on, and it hurts (from all angles) to even acknowledge that. With our resources and level of investment we should be beating Luton three times consecutively.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 25, 2022 16:11:16 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 25, 2022 16:13:07 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? The bloke is an absolute fucknugget.
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Post by tosh on Feb 25, 2022 17:30:36 GMT
Wish O'Neil would fire his players up like that, and get in the oppositions faces!!! Jones failed miserably v us 3 times previously. 3 losses, no goals. Let's not make out he has something special to fire players up Anybody can beat anybody from time to time in this league. I would think though, that Luton’s longer term performance over the last season and again this season, where they are outperforming us with a much lower budget and inferior squad, suggests he does have some ability to organise and motivate. His summing up of Wednesday’s match was pretty much spot on, it seemed to me.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 25, 2022 18:14:55 GMT
That cunt took my club back 10 years. He can fuck off and when he gets there he can fuck off again. The blame for that lies with the people who thought Paul Lambert would keep us in the Premier League ...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 18:27:07 GMT
Wish O'Neil would fire his players up like that, and get in the oppositions faces!!! Jones failed miserably v us 3 times previously. 3 losses, no goals. Let's not make out he has something special to fire players up It didn't work for him when he was manager here either.
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Post by iglugluk on Feb 25, 2022 18:40:47 GMT
These same shuffling, gutless losers have still handed Nathan’s arse to him 3 out of the last 4 times though, no? The bloke is an absolute fucknugget.
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