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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 14, 2022 11:48:13 GMT
Why wait until after you get relgated. We have made a habbit of holding onto players too long. Always sell them at the top of their value range no one is irreplaceable. Let's face it though fans are generally very disgruntled if a team sells a player at the peak of their value because that will be the time when they are producing the goods. Selling a player who is producing the goods is always seen by fans as lack of ambition. We had chances to sell Allen and Butland, we were forced to sell Arnie at very close to his peak. The only real argument for not selling a player at the peak of their value is our record on reinvestment. I've seen calls to sell Campbell while he's out of form recovering from injury. It's stupidity, you only sell tarnished assets if you have no choice. Time to sell him is when he's in a rich vein of form then reinvest strategically in players with potential to grow in value. You only have to look at the Surridge situation, if you buy the right type of players at the right stage of their career all is not lost even if it doesn't work out how you hoped.
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Post by klingon on Feb 14, 2022 12:03:53 GMT
Because we're utterly useless at long term planning? Other clubs stole the march on us by preparing for the next move before it's even happened. Yup. Players, managers even CEO's. Succession planning is non existant at the club. At the risk of moving away from "Mad Nath" I suggest that's slightly harsh. Consider this from "90 Minutes" 2019 about our transfer activity when in the "sunlit uplands" of the PL. "Aside from passing on deals for two young players named Demba Ba and Romelu Lukaku, the Potters also completed several deals they'd probably quite like to forget. Ibrahima Sonko Brek Shea Andrew Davies Jakob Haugaard Giannelli Imbula Wilson Palacios Kevin Wimmer Dave Kitson Jese Rodriguez Saido Berahino The full horrible details are here, if anyone can bear to read it. Seems to me that we haven't made any errors as glaring as these recently. We might, finally, be beginning to get things almost right. As someone mentioned on another thread, at least I can now begin to enjoy the prospect of a match again. Next season should be interesting. at least..............
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Post by lordb on Feb 14, 2022 12:28:41 GMT
Let's face it though fans are generally very disgruntled if a team sells a player at the peak of their value because that will be the time when they are producing the goods. Selling a player who is producing the goods is always seen by fans as lack of ambition. We had chances to sell Allen and Butland, we were forced to sell Arnie at very close to his peak. The only real argument for not selling a player at the peak of their value is our record on reinvestment. I've seen calls to sell Campbell while he's out of form recovering from injury. It's stupidity, you only sell tarnished assets if you have no choice. Time to sell him is when he's in a rich vein of form then reinvest strategically in players with potential to grow in value. You only have to look at the Surridge situation, if you buy the right type of players at the right stage of their career all is not lost even if it doesn't work out how you hoped. 'we had chances to sell Allen and Butland' Did we? After relegation? That's news.
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Mad Nath
Feb 14, 2022 12:37:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 14, 2022 12:37:51 GMT
We had chances to sell Allen and Butland, we were forced to sell Arnie at very close to his peak. The only real argument for not selling a player at the peak of their value is our record on reinvestment. I've seen calls to sell Campbell while he's out of form recovering from injury. It's stupidity, you only sell tarnished assets if you have no choice. Time to sell him is when he's in a rich vein of form then reinvest strategically in players with potential to grow in value. You only have to look at the Surridge situation, if you buy the right type of players at the right stage of their career all is not lost even if it doesn't work out how you hoped. 'we had chances to sell Allen and Butland' Did we? After relegation? That's news. Before relegation both for a good profit that could have been reinvested in players with potential to grow in value. When a player reaches a value whereby you could adequately replace their role in the team for a fraction of the cost it’s time to sell. Tbh I don’t think either Allen or Butland were ever vital players to us.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 14, 2022 12:43:54 GMT
'we had chances to sell Allen and Butland' Did we? After relegation? That's news. Before relegation both for a good profit that could have been reinvested in players with potential to grow in value. When a player reaches a value whereby you could adequately replace their role in the team for a fraction of the cost it’s time to sell. Tbh I don’t think either Allen or Butland were ever vital players to us. Which clubs made offers for them when they were at their 'peak'?
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Mad Nath
Feb 14, 2022 13:07:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfc75 on Feb 14, 2022 13:07:43 GMT
'we had chances to sell Allen and Butland' Did we? After relegation? That's news. Before relegation both for a good profit that could have been reinvested in players with potential to grow in value. When a player reaches a value whereby you could adequately replace their role in the team for a fraction of the cost it’s time to sell. Tbh I don’t think either Allen or Butland were ever vital players to us. Let’s say that’s true, and it happened… what do you think we’d have done with the money, given our credentials in the transfer market at that time and shortly after? A) Invested it wisely in quality players who would have kept us up and been sold on for a profit, or B) Spunked it up the wall on dross
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Post by lordb on Feb 14, 2022 13:10:33 GMT
'we had chances to sell Allen and Butland' Did we? After relegation? That's news. Before relegation both for a good profit that could have been reinvested in players with potential to grow in value. When a player reaches a value whereby you could adequately replace their role in the team for a fraction of the cost it’s time to sell. Tbh I don’t think either Allen or Butland were ever vital players to us. what bids did we have for Butland? when & how much, news to me we turned on a West Ham bid for Allen before relegation
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 14, 2022 13:30:34 GMT
Before relegation both for a good profit that could have been reinvested in players with potential to grow in value. When a player reaches a value whereby you could adequately replace their role in the team for a fraction of the cost it’s time to sell. Tbh I don’t think either Allen or Butland were ever vital players to us. what bids did we have for Butland? when & how much, news to me we turned on a West Ham bid for Allen before relegation Didn’t Villa offer a sizeable fee for Butland after relegation that didn’t match Stoke valuation and were scared off?
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Mad Nath
Feb 14, 2022 13:39:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Feb 14, 2022 13:39:34 GMT
Before relegation both for a good profit that could have been reinvested in players with potential to grow in value. When a player reaches a value whereby you could adequately replace their role in the team for a fraction of the cost it’s time to sell. Tbh I don’t think either Allen or Butland were ever vital players to us. Let’s say that’s true, and it happened… what do you think we’d have done with the money, given our credentials in the transfer market at that time and shortly after? A) Invested it wisely in quality players who would have kept us up and been sold on for a profit, or B) Spunked it up the wall on dross B but then not only were we really bad at buying players but also at developing and integrating them. It would be interesting to see whether we could adapt our current model to a higher level, I have my doubts.
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Post by lordb on Feb 14, 2022 15:34:04 GMT
what bids did we have for Butland? when & how much, news to me we turned on a West Ham bid for Allen before relegation Didn’t Villa offer a sizeable fee for Butland after relegation that didn’t match Stoke valuation and were scared off? that's news to me if they did then, depending on what the bid was, the argument holds water searched google, there were reports in 2019 , obv thats a year later
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Post by JesusisaStokie on Feb 14, 2022 15:37:49 GMT
what bids did we have for Butland? when & how much, news to me we turned on a West Ham bid for Allen before relegation Didn’t Villa offer a sizeable fee for Butland after relegation that didn’t match Stoke valuation and were scared off? Remember seeing something about this - didn't we value butland at 25m+?
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Mad Nath
Feb 14, 2022 17:59:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 14, 2022 17:59:37 GMT
Birmingham's substantial sell on clause clouded their judgement in my opinion.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 14, 2022 18:06:22 GMT
Didn’t Villa offer a sizeable fee for Butland after relegation that didn’t match Stoke valuation and were scared off? Remember seeing something about this - didn't we value butland at 25m+? Yes I believe we were asking £25m and Villa offered £13m. We turned it down…….if only we knew, eventually selling him for £500k.
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Mad Nath
Feb 14, 2022 18:23:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by teenagefanclub on Feb 14, 2022 18:23:06 GMT
Remember seeing something about this - didn't we value butland at 25m+? Yes I believe we were asking £25m and Villa offered £13m. We turned it down…….if only we knew, eventually selling him for £500k. At the time without hindsight i think that was the correct decision
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Mad Nath
Feb 14, 2022 18:28:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfc75 on Feb 14, 2022 18:28:04 GMT
Yes I believe we were asking £25m and Villa offered £13m. We turned it down…….if only we knew, eventually selling him for £500k. At the time without hindsight i think that was the correct decision If we’d sold him for £13m there would have been outrage on here
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Post by teenagefanclub on Feb 14, 2022 18:28:39 GMT
At the time without hindsight i think that was the correct decision If we’d sold him for £13m there would have been outrage on here Meltdown
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 19, 2022 19:28:04 GMT
Luton 3rd Top form team over last 8 matches "Easier" fixtures than Bournemouth remaining on balance. If they don't overhaul Bournemouth they must be favourites to win play-offs. Mad Nath on MOTD next season? Just saying like
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Post by TinkerT on Mar 19, 2022 19:34:53 GMT
Luton 3rd Top form team over last 8 matches "Easier" fixtures than Bournemouth remaining on balance. If they don't overhaul Bournemouth they must be favourites to win play-offs. Mad Nath on MOTD next season? Just saying like Manager of the season easily, his team on paper is relegation fodder he's done a fantastic job
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Post by teenagefanclub on Mar 19, 2022 19:44:02 GMT
Luton 3rd Top form team over last 8 matches "Easier" fixtures than Bournemouth remaining on balance. If they don't overhaul Bournemouth they must be favourites to win play-offs. Mad Nath on MOTD next season? Just saying like Manager of the season easily, his team on paper is relegation fodder he's done a fantastic job As shit as he was here, he’s done a great job at Luton this season. He tried his best here and made himself ill doing so, good luck to him and Luton.
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Mad Nath
Mar 19, 2022 19:48:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by scfc75 on Mar 19, 2022 19:48:14 GMT
Good luck to him. He’s doing a great job.
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Post by chuckrocky on Mar 19, 2022 19:53:37 GMT
Without wanting to sound disrespectful it just goes to show how poor the standard of this league is.
There’s some really average sides up there in the promotion mix.
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Mad Nath
Mar 19, 2022 20:13:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Mar 19, 2022 20:13:15 GMT
Can you imagine when they miss out on the play offs.
Or lose in the final.
He could actually combust.
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Mad Nath
Mar 19, 2022 20:17:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by willieeetmiout on Mar 19, 2022 20:17:56 GMT
Can you imagine when they miss out on the play offs. Or lose in the final. He could actually combust. I love watching an unfolding car crash. Promotion to the PL would be just that. They could genuinely come back down with 0 points
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Mad Nath
Mar 19, 2022 20:19:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Mar 19, 2022 20:19:12 GMT
Can you imagine when they miss out on the play offs. Or lose in the final. He could actually combust. I love watching an unfolding car crash. Promotion to the PL would be just that. They could genuinely come back down with 0 points I think I’d prefer a spectacular play off failure. Either way, with Nath, it will be entertaining.
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Post by a on Mar 19, 2022 20:20:14 GMT
Good luck to him. He’s doing a great job. Yes he is It’s certainly upsetting some on here
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Post by Gods on Mar 19, 2022 20:21:55 GMT
Can you imagine when they miss out on the play offs. Or lose in the final. He could actually combust. I love watching an unfolding car crash. Promotion to the PL would be just that. They could genuinely come back down with 0 points They'd have as good a chance of surviving as anyone else who makes it up via the play-off this season wouldn't they, I mean why wouldn't they?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 19, 2022 20:22:36 GMT
Can you imagine when they miss out on the play offs. Or lose in the final. He could actually combust. I love watching an unfolding car crash. Promotion to the PL would be just that. They could genuinely come back down with 0 points Or get 40
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Post by gaznandi on Mar 19, 2022 20:24:03 GMT
Good luck to him. He’s doing a great job. Yes he is It’s certainly upsetting some on here You unhappy when we sacked him then?
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Post by scfc75 on Mar 19, 2022 20:25:01 GMT
Can you imagine when they miss out on the play offs. Or lose in the final. He could actually combust. I’d be more worried if they do actually go up. He’ll smash a hole in his own chest.
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Mad Nath
Mar 19, 2022 20:25:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2022 20:25:22 GMT
Nothing against Luton , have no interest in them at all but that stadium in the Premier League would be slightly out of place. The only ground that you can compare to Loftus Rd in terms of shiteness. Quite liked them in the days of Paul Walsh and Malachy Donaghy.
I couldn't care less what Jones does as long as he isn't in any way employed by us. Hate to think where we'd be now if he stayed longer. He was bad beyond words. Worst have ever seen and we've seen some horror shows.
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