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Post by thevoid on Jan 27, 2022 0:39:57 GMT
I don't know about that, but it's clear that the MON era has run its course. Yes, the players seemed a lot more interested in playing for Holden against Hull, but that could be simply an "at least you're not MON" effect. And the Fulham game? A bit more fired up against a quality team? These things happen in one off games- Ireland lost to Luxembourg and yet a few games later were minutes away from beating Portugal. They're still shit though.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 27, 2022 0:43:28 GMT
Foreign is the way to go, but our board don't do forign, so we are stuck with British managers. Don't know what our board have against forign managers,when the stats show they do better than the Brits. When was the last time British manager won the League or any of the Cups? Brendan Rodgers. Under progressive, ambitious foreign owners though. If we're comparing Northern Irish managers, we have the 'Wish version' of Rodgers.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 27, 2022 0:46:31 GMT
I think if I was John Coates replacing the manager my number 1 choice would be trying to tempt Allardyce with a £10m promotion bonus and a renewed contract & attractive transfer budget on promotion to re-establish the club as a Premier League outfit. It might not be the prettiest rpute to success but it would be effective. I'd rather not go up and get spanked every week and then end up back in div 2. Allardyce could establish us. O Neill probably could imo but we've got to get there with for him to do it Do you honestly think Allardyce would work for a club crippled by FFP?
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Post by yyy on Jan 27, 2022 2:03:20 GMT
I think if I was John Coates replacing the manager my number 1 choice would be trying to tempt Allardyce with a £10m promotion bonus and a renewed contract & attractive transfer budget on promotion to re-establish the club as a Premier League outfit. It might not be the prettiest rpute to success but it would be effective. I'd rather not go up and get spanked every week and then end up back in div 2. Allardyce could establish us. O Neill probably could imo but we've got to get there with for him to do it Do you honestly think Allardyce would work for a club crippled by FFP? I don't know, I do know though that he wouldn't if you didn't ask. I don't see his better opportunities cueing around the block atm, it all depends on if he buys into a project or not. We're certainly close enough for a commute to and from his family residence at his ripe age
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Post by shakermaker on Jan 27, 2022 2:19:52 GMT
I think if I was John Coates replacing the manager my number 1 choice would be trying to tempt Allardyce with a £10m promotion bonus and a renewed contract & attractive transfer budget on promotion to re-establish the club as a Premier League outfit. It might not be the prettiest rpute to success but it would be effective. I'd rather not go up and get spanked every week and then end up back in div 2. Allardyce could establish us. O Neill probably could imo but we've got to get there with for him to do it Do you honestly think Allardyce would work for a club crippled by FFP? I think he has the players in this squad to suit his tactics. And he has the contacts to seek out a bargain for reinforcements if required. When Allen (hopefully) fucks off this summer he can give the armband to Jags, his captain from Everton.
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Post by potterpaul on Jan 27, 2022 2:38:05 GMT
I don't think I'd be against Holden taking charge after this season.
He'll have a bright young side to work with who he's been training with for 12 months. It's important not to give away silly extensions to some players who are coming to the end of their Stoke careers.
I'd stress the importance of making play-offs as a minimum requirement, even though it would be his 1st term in charge.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 27, 2022 2:38:20 GMT
Do you honestly think Allardyce would work for a club crippled by FFP? I think he has the players in this squad to suit his tactics. And he has the contacts to seek out a bargain for reinforcements if required. When Allen (hopefully) fucks off this summer he can give the armband to Jags, his captain from Everton. That ship sailed Long ago I’m afraid
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 4:57:04 GMT
Harsh, never put a foot wrong in the top league either. You’d hope somebody will have a decent budget here next season also. He about three months in the top league and was gone after a run of five defeats in six games including a 4-1 home gubbing by Bolton. I'm not sure what kind of budget we'll have but I'd be astonished if it was as competitive as that one. That’s not true at all. He did 1 and a half seasons mate.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 7:54:20 GMT
He about three months in the top league and was gone after a run of five defeats in six games including a 4-1 home gubbing by Bolton. I'm not sure what kind of budget we'll have but I'd be astonished if it was as competitive as that one. That’s not true at all. He did 1 and a half seasons mate. Fair enough. It's also not true to say he didn't put a foot wrong though isn't it?
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Post by thestatusquo on Jan 27, 2022 7:57:01 GMT
Could Holden bridge the gap ?
I’ll get me coat
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 7:57:06 GMT
A bit more fired up against a quality team? These things happen in one off games- Ireland lost to Luxembourg and yet a few games later were minutes away from beating Portugal. They're still shit though. Isn't it more that games where there's loads of space suit us more as we can hit teams on the break more easily - so either truly dreadful teams (Hull) or good teams who attack and leave gaps (Fulham). Teams who are organised and let us have the ball are the Achilles' Heel, which is why we're so bad at home. Rowett had much the same problem, though MON has at least tried to sign some creative players, while Rowett treated them the way vampires treat sunlight, garlic and crucifixes.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 8:04:23 GMT
That’s not true at all. He did 1 and a half seasons mate. Fair enough. It's also not true to say he didn't put a foot wrong though isn't it? He would have kept them up again. It’s my opinion, I think he’d do well at Stoke with the right people around him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 8:14:26 GMT
Fair enough. It's also not true to say he didn't put a foot wrong though isn't it? He would have kept them up again. It’s my opinion, I think he’d do well at Stoke with the right people around him. Again, fair enough it's just I don't know what you're basing that on beyond his reputation as a player? His players hated him at Sunderland and at Ipswich, he didn't especially show any flair for tactical stuff as a manager and doesn't as a pundit, his approach to transfer seemed scattergun. What specific aspects of his managerial career or approach have impressed you, divorcing entirely his accomplishments as a player?
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 8:24:19 GMT
He would have kept them up again. It’s my opinion, I think he’d do well at Stoke with the right people around him. Again, fair enough it's just I don't know what you're basing that on beyond his reputation as a player? His players hated him at Sunderland and at Ipswich, he didn't especially show any flair for tactical stuff as a manager and doesn't as a pundit, his approach to transfer seemed scattergun. What specific aspects of his managerial career or approach have impressed you, divorcing entirely his accomplishments as a player? Like I’ve said three times now, I’m basing it on what he managed to achieve at Sunderland and that I have an instinct he’s at an age now he could do something similar with Stoke. You can’t say he did this and that at Sunderland when you can’t even remember that he kept them up comfortably, so I’ll also refrain from pretending I remember anything about his tactics.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 8:33:31 GMT
Again, fair enough it's just I don't know what you're basing that on beyond his reputation as a player? His players hated him at Sunderland and at Ipswich, he didn't especially show any flair for tactical stuff as a manager and doesn't as a pundit, his approach to transfer seemed scattergun. What specific aspects of his managerial career or approach have impressed you, divorcing entirely his accomplishments as a player? Like I’ve said three times now, I’m basing it on what he managed to achieve at Sunderland and that I have an instinct he’s at an age now he could do something similar with Stoke. You can’t say he did this and that at Sunderland when you can’t even remember that he kept them up comfortably, so I’ll also refrain from pretending I remember anything about his tactics. It's the 'instinct' bit I'm struggling with, what is giving you that? I can say that yeah, because it's true. He had one excellent season 15 years ago where he got Sunderland promoted. I wouldn't say surviving by three points, losing six of your last 10 games after spending more on a goalkeeper than we spent on Beattie and Etherington combined the following season, is 'keeping them up comfortably'. Not sure turning attention to that season is quite the strong argument you seem to think it is.
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Post by hyaduck on Jan 27, 2022 9:22:24 GMT
Under progressive, ambitious foreign owners though. If we're comparing Northern Irish managers, we have the 'Wish version' of Rodgers. Brendan Rodgers hasn’t won the league!!!
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 9:34:41 GMT
Like I’ve said three times now, I’m basing it on what he managed to achieve at Sunderland and that I have an instinct he’s at an age now he could do something similar with Stoke. You can’t say he did this and that at Sunderland when you can’t even remember that he kept them up comfortably, so I’ll also refrain from pretending I remember anything about his tactics. It's the 'instinct' bit I'm struggling with, what is giving you that? I can say that yeah, because it's true. He had one excellent season 15 years ago where he got Sunderland promoted. I wouldn't say surviving by three points, losing six of your last 10 games after spending more on a goalkeeper than we spent on Beattie and Etherington combined the following season, is 'keeping them up comfortably'. Not sure turning attention to that season is quite the strong argument you seem to think it is. Fuck me. I like the idea of Roy Keane managing Stoke. I think he’d inject a bit of life into the place and not just Mad Nath life. The fans are depressed again. I’m not professing it’s an astute football decision, it could be though. I even opened this conversation by saying that. You nitpicking through that isn’t making you clever, it’s just wasting our time.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 9:38:39 GMT
It's the 'instinct' bit I'm struggling with, what is giving you that? I can say that yeah, because it's true. He had one excellent season 15 years ago where he got Sunderland promoted. I wouldn't say surviving by three points, losing six of your last 10 games after spending more on a goalkeeper than we spent on Beattie and Etherington combined the following season, is 'keeping them up comfortably'. Not sure turning attention to that season is quite the strong argument you seem to think it is. Fuck me. I like the idea of Roy Keane managing Stoke. I think he’d inject a bit of life into the place and not just Mad Nath life. The fans are depressed again. I’m not professing it’s an astute football decision, it could be though. I even opened this conversation by saying that. You nitpicking through that isn’t making you clever, it’s just wasting our time. It isn't nitpicking, there's a fucking welter of evidence to suggest it's an absolutely terrible idea. If, say, Jamie Pollock had his exact same managerial record there isn't a chance in hell you'd be touting it as such.
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Post by yyy on Jan 27, 2022 9:42:09 GMT
It's the 'instinct' bit I'm struggling with, what is giving you that? I can say that yeah, because it's true. He had one excellent season 15 years ago where he got Sunderland promoted. I wouldn't say surviving by three points, losing six of your last 10 games after spending more on a goalkeeper than we spent on Beattie and Etherington combined the following season, is 'keeping them up comfortably'. Not sure turning attention to that season is quite the strong argument you seem to think it is. Fuck me. I like the idea of Roy Keane managing Stoke. I think he’d inject a bit of life into the place and not just Mad Nath life. The fans are depressed again. I’m not professing it’s an astute football decision, it could be though. I even opened this conversation by saying that. You nitpicking through that isn’t making you clever, it’s just wasting our time. I'm not depressed, for some reason there was a definite noticeable improvement in football and attitude the two games before the last, what I want to know is what caused it and if that's the future under MON or wether it was a flash in the pan. Every team on the planet will have a bad game, I want to know which is the real Stoke under MON moving forward, the last game or the two before, if its the two before I'd give him a new contract, not sack him. I could watch that attacking high intensity football with or without promotion for 3 life times, although playing like that promotion in future is inevitable, not many teams could live with that in this division. A good few changes have been made this January, imo its only right to at least give him the rest of the season to see what he does with it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 9:54:35 GMT
It's the 'instinct' bit I'm struggling with, what is giving you that? I can say that yeah, because it's true. He had one excellent season 15 years ago where he got Sunderland promoted. I wouldn't say surviving by three points, losing six of your last 10 games after spending more on a goalkeeper than we spent on Beattie and Etherington combined the following season, is 'keeping them up comfortably'. Not sure turning attention to that season is quite the strong argument you seem to think it is. Fuck me. I like the idea of Roy Keane managing Stoke. I think he’d inject a bit of life into the place and not just Mad Nath life. The fans are depressed again. I’m not professing it’s an astute football decision, it could be though. I even opened this conversation by saying that. You nitpicking through that isn’t making you clever, it’s just wasting our time. "The fans are depressed"
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 12:23:02 GMT
Fuck me. I like the idea of Roy Keane managing Stoke. I think he’d inject a bit of life into the place and not just Mad Nath life. The fans are depressed again. I’m not professing it’s an astute football decision, it could be though. I even opened this conversation by saying that. You nitpicking through that isn’t making you clever, it’s just wasting our time. It isn't nitpicking, there's a fucking welter of evidence to suggest it's an absolutely terrible idea. If, say, Jamie Pollock had his exact same managerial record there isn't a chance in hell you'd be touting it as such. A welter of evidence lol. You’re really not understanding this conversation are you. I’ll put it down to communicating over the internet.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 12:24:04 GMT
Fuck me. I like the idea of Roy Keane managing Stoke. I think he’d inject a bit of life into the place and not just Mad Nath life. The fans are depressed again. I’m not professing it’s an astute football decision, it could be though. I even opened this conversation by saying that. You nitpicking through that isn’t making you clever, it’s just wasting our time. "The fans are depressed" I’m not fully in the O’Neill out camp but the fans are down. Rightly or wrongly. Atmosphere home and away is just flat.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 12:29:06 GMT
It isn't nitpicking, there's a fucking welter of evidence to suggest it's an absolutely terrible idea. If, say, Jamie Pollock had his exact same managerial record there isn't a chance in hell you'd be touting it as such. A welter of evidence lol. You’re really not understanding this conversation are you. I’ll put it down to communicating over the internet. I'm understanding it just fine I think? You think Keane would be a good manager of Stoke City based on one good season at Sunderland 15 years ago and a completely ill-defined 'instinct' that you're either unwilling or unable to elaborate on. I think it would be a terrible appointment based on: - Things going sour at Sunderland and him spending loads of money on shite and alienating most of his players - Him being hopeless at Ipswich and alienating most of his players - Him managing to alienate lots of players during his time with Ireland as Martin O'Neill's number 2 - His one-note, insight-free punditry that's entertaining enough but devoid of much beyond ripping into players for poor performances, mistakes, lack of heart etc and never offers any kind of tactical analysis or hint of having done any research.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jan 27, 2022 12:58:46 GMT
A welter of evidence lol. You’re really not understanding this conversation are you. I’ll put it down to communicating over the internet. I'm understanding it just fine I think? You think Keane would be a good manager of Stoke City based on one good season at Sunderland 15 years ago and a completely ill-defined 'instinct' that you're either unwilling or unable to elaborate on. I think it would be a terrible appointment based on: - Things going sour at Sunderland and him spending loads of money on shite and alienating most of his players - Him being hopeless at Ipswich and alienating most of his players - Him managing to alienate lots of players during his time with Ireland as Martin O'Neill's number 2 - His one-note, insight-free punditry that's entertaining enough but devoid of much beyond ripping into players for poor performances, mistakes, lack of heart etc and never offers any kind of tactical analysis or hint of having done any research. Yep, you’re right. I take it all back.
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Post by Squeekster on Jan 27, 2022 13:05:36 GMT
I think if I was John Coates replacing the manager my number 1 choice would be trying to tempt Allardyce with a £10m promotion bonus and a renewed contract & attractive transfer budget on promotion to re-establish the club as a Premier League outfit. It might not be the prettiest rpute to success but it would be effective. I'd rather not go up and get spanked every week and then end up back in div 2. Allardyce could establish us. O Neill probably could imo but we've got to get there with for him to do it Do you honestly think Allardyce would work for a club crippled by FFP? Wouldn't want that cu*t anywhere near our club when asked years ago when he was linked he smirked and more or less said no way he'd manage us.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 27, 2022 13:31:54 GMT
Do you honestly think Allardyce would work for a club crippled by FFP? Wouldn't want that cu*t anywhere near our club when asked years ago when he was linked he smirked and more or less said no way he'd manage us. I wouldn't want him because he's a dinosaur
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Post by thevoid on Jan 27, 2022 13:35:37 GMT
Under progressive, ambitious foreign owners though. If we're comparing Northern Irish managers, we have the 'Wish version' of Rodgers. Brendan Rodgers hasn’t won the league!!! I never said he did. The original quote by staffsoatcake was: 'When was the last time British manager won the League or any of the Cups?' To which Dave rightly said Brendan Rodgers, who won the FA Cup.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 10, 2022 16:33:08 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 10, 2022 16:36:40 GMT
That would suck. I don’t really think it would be a good move for him to be honest. They could crash out of the league this season and aren’t exactly a team that will give him good exposure for a different managerial role.
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Post by mowlee on Feb 10, 2022 16:48:18 GMT
Am not sure he would move for less money.. it’s a no go in my opinion
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