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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 25, 2021 1:28:30 GMT
I thought Allen was improved today but still bloody awful. However, Sawyers was worse. In what way, he gave the ball away less than Allen did, gave less free kicks away, and didn't get sent off.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Nov 25, 2021 2:58:24 GMT
Just so bored of him now in truth. The stats on his possession loss taken from can be debated and contextualised etc but you could do a simple eye test on his performance tonight and see that he adds absolutely nothing to this team other than panicky dribbling and simple passes outwide after receiving the from the centre backs. We’re talking about a relatively simple, metronomic job. There’s no real creative burden on him or pressure to lose the ball as often as he does.
Has absolutely zero composure on the ball, makes some very bizarre passes and no longer bails himself out with the odd goal here and there. His decision to shoot from 20 yards when he had men over typified it.
I will despair if we offer him another contract because he’s done absolutely nothing since relegation to deserve one. Speaks volumes no one has gone anywhere near him even though his is apparently a PL level player.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 25, 2021 7:07:09 GMT
He was absolutely atrocious. He was average. Now Tymon and Fletcher they gave the ball away nearly 40% of the time they had it now that’s in atrocious territory….. This is poor bait or you’re just really bad at watching football.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2021 7:25:10 GMT
He was average. Now Tymon and Fletcher they gave the ball away nearly 40% of the time they had it now that’s in atrocious territory….. This is poor bait or you’re just really bad at watching football. What does “really bad at watching football” even mean?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2021 7:28:48 GMT
He was average. Now Tymon and Fletcher they gave the ball away nearly 40% of the time they had it now that’s in atrocious territory….. Different positions though as well. I’m sure a lot of Tymon’s give aways were crosses into decent areas that were never met by Fletcher/Brown. Fletcher is also in a bit of a high-risk position for dispossession and his stats are likely inflated by flick-ons etc that aren’t met by a Stoke player. While Fletcher should have put us in the lead, neither he nor Tymon had a bad game in my opinion. 2 of Allen’s were crosses as well. Tymon’s crossing second half was atrocious he kept blasting it at the Bristol City defender, and as much as I like Fletcher he missed two gilt edge chances. I don’t think anyone was particularly good, or woefully bad. But in a game where we totally dominated possession, created lots of clear cut chances and came away without troubling the keeper I’m not sure it was the midfield or Allen that was the problem…..
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Post by PotteringThrough on Nov 25, 2021 7:30:43 GMT
Have a shot next time Joe.
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samuel32
Youth Player
Jack Clarke's Shorts
Posts: 367
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Post by samuel32 on Nov 25, 2021 8:22:48 GMT
Too slow to make a tackle so makes a bunch of fouls. Absolutely crying out for an athlete who can win 50/50s in the middle of the park. I'm not asking for Kante, just someone who isn't slow as fuck.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 25, 2021 8:46:28 GMT
As predicted, after being silent for a while, now we have lost a game the Joe-haters are out in force. Even though he played well 1st half (less so 2nd) and was't at fault for the goal or the umpteen sitters we missed. This place is depressing at times.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 25, 2021 8:49:33 GMT
Have a shot next time Joe. He did early on and it sailed tamely over the cross bar.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 25, 2021 8:50:11 GMT
As predicted, after being silent for a while, now we have lost a game the Joe-haters are out in force. Even though he played well 1st half (less so 2nd) and was't at fault for the goal or the umpteen sitters we missed. This place is depressing at times. Not me, I’ve remained consistent throughout. I will genuinely punch the air in delight when he finally departs this club.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 25, 2021 8:52:20 GMT
He along with Vranic and Tymon looked incredibly tired in the second half, probably why we looked so much worse. Not the best time to get a suspension from the team angle but a weekend off could be just what Joe needs.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2021 9:30:20 GMT
As predicted, after being silent for a while, now we have lost a game the Joe-haters are out in force. Even though he played well 1st half (less so 2nd) and was't at fault for the goal or the umpteen sitters we missed. This place is depressing at times. Why are you so weird about Joe Allen?
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Post by rorymscfc on Nov 25, 2021 9:38:00 GMT
I still don't really know what Joe Allen is. He’s not creative enough to play as an attacking midfielder and he lacks the discipline and positional awareness to be a holding midfielder. He doesn’t read the game well at all hence he's constantly chasing around and making desperate tackles - reactive rather than proactive.
He’s a talented footballer but I just don’t - and never really have understood where he fits into our team.
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Post by dastokie on Nov 25, 2021 10:02:52 GMT
As predicted, after being silent for a while, now we have lost a game the Joe-haters are out in force. Even though he played well 1st half (less so 2nd) and was't at fault for the goal or the umpteen sitters we missed. This place is depressing at times. Why are you so weird about Joe Allen? Did you not see his pass to no one on about 35 minutes then two lovely passes to Bristol players and he had a good first half. Second half he was auditioning for the invisible man.
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Post by greystokie on Nov 25, 2021 10:04:37 GMT
I still don't really know what Joe Allen is. He’s not creative enough to play as an attacking midfielder and he lacks the discipline and positional awareness to be a holding midfielder. He doesn’t read the game well at all hence he's constantly chasing around and making desperate tackles - reactive rather than proactive. . He’s a talented footballer but I just don’t - and never really have understood where he fits into our team. He's a tryer, a grafter, a terrier, someone who is desperate to do well but in doing so wastes much of his effort. In his desperation he loses his position chasing after every ball and making late tackles and instead of calming down and picking a pass he rushes it and more often than not and gives the ball away. In short an enthusiastic but not very good player
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Post by PotteringThrough on Nov 25, 2021 10:08:29 GMT
Have a shot next time Joe. He did early on and it sailed tamely over the cross bar. I’d rather him have a go and miss than get tackled and they get the ball back.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 25, 2021 10:20:11 GMT
His best attribute for us has been aerially imo. That's the only good thing I can say about him. He wins a surprising amount of aerial duels.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2021 10:34:59 GMT
His best attribute for us has been aerially imo. That's the only good thing I can say about him. He wins a surprising amount of aerial duels. 1.6 per game to be precise......
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Nov 25, 2021 10:42:30 GMT
Whoever replaces Allen and has a blinder against Blackburn, Allen will be back for the following game, MON does have a blind spot where Allen is concerned.
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Post by sticky on Nov 25, 2021 10:49:10 GMT
I still don't really know what Joe Allen is. He’s not creative enough to play as an attacking midfielder and he lacks the discipline and positional awareness to be a holding midfielder. He doesn’t read the game well at all hence he's constantly chasing around and making desperate tackles - reactive rather than proactive. He’s a talented footballer but I just don’t - and never really have understood where he fits into our team. Completely agree with that..must be one of the higher earners and being given plenty of time.. I’d be absolutely gutted if he was still here next season
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 25, 2021 10:59:47 GMT
I really like Joe Allen. Solid professional who's commitment to the cause can never be questioned. He's the type of character that every club wants to have.
He is also synonymous with our decline (and stagnation) and isn't adding a great deal to our mini resurgence this season.
At £13m and following THAT Euro's performance, had we had the opportunity and not signed him there would have been uproar and Scholes dragged across the coals.
As it was we signed him and had no idea how to use him and still don't.
In my head he should be a disciplined terrier, a ball retriever in midfield, get it and give it. An upgraded Ben Pearson with a little more quality on the ball.
He's not an 8, not a 10 and not good enough to play as a DM on his own. An 'identikit' midfielder of 21st Century.
With Sawyers, Vrancic and Powell we have clearly defined midfielders and as such Joe is the one I would be looking to offload in making space for a specialist beast of a DM (and I've no idea who).
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Post by shakermaker on Nov 25, 2021 12:37:28 GMT
I still don't really know what Joe Allen is. He’s not creative enough to play as an attacking midfielder and he lacks the discipline and positional awareness to be a holding midfielder. He doesn’t read the game well at all hence he's constantly chasing around and making desperate tackles - reactive rather than proactive. He’s a talented footballer but I just don’t - and never really have understood where he fits into our team. Joe’s best position for me is as one of two holding midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, where the other one makes the metronome passes while Joe cleans up and protects the back four. When he played alongside Thompson in a deeper role, he was much better. He just doesn’t have the guile to be a lone defensive midfielder or the pivot in a midfield three.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 13:09:04 GMT
I still don't really know what Joe Allen is. He’s not creative enough to play as an attacking midfielder and he lacks the discipline and positional awareness to be a holding midfielder. He doesn’t read the game well at all hence he's constantly chasing around and making desperate tackles - reactive rather than proactive. He’s a talented footballer but I just don’t - and never really have understood where he fits into our team. Joe’s best position for me is as one of two holding midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, where the other one makes the metronome passes while Joe cleans up and protects the back four. When he played alongside Thompson in a deeper role, he was much better. He just doesn’t have the guile to be a lone defensive midfielder or the pivot in a midfield three. He did look better alongside Thompson, but you shouldn’t need someone else in there to just look decent. I’d say Thompson could play his role now better than Allen (when he’s fit). Allen’s best asset, to me, is that he closes down spaces, but his general tackling isn’t great and he doesn’t have the energy that he used to either.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2021 13:28:41 GMT
Joe’s best position for me is as one of two holding midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, where the other one makes the metronome passes while Joe cleans up and protects the back four. When he played alongside Thompson in a deeper role, he was much better. He just doesn’t have the guile to be a lone defensive midfielder or the pivot in a midfield three. He did look better alongside Thompson, but you shouldn’t need someone else in there to just look decent. I’d say Thompson could play his role now better than Allen (when he’s fit). Allen’s best asset, to me, is that he closes down spaces, but his general tackling isn’t great and he doesn’t have the energy that he used to either. I think if both are fit both will need to play until we sign a dm or at least a physical centre mid.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 15:08:59 GMT
He did look better alongside Thompson, but you shouldn’t need someone else in there to just look decent. I’d say Thompson could play his role now better than Allen (when he’s fit). Allen’s best asset, to me, is that he closes down spaces, but his general tackling isn’t great and he doesn’t have the energy that he used to either. I think if both are fit both will need to play until we sign a dm or at least a physical centre mid. If Powell was fit, I’d have given Thompson the opportunity to play alongside Powell and Vrancic, but I wouldn’t play him (or anyone really) with Vrancic and Sawyers in the same team. I’m not the biggest fan of shoehorning Powell up front as I think he doesn’t work too well alongside Fletcher (better behind) and Fletcher shouldn’t be dropped.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 25, 2021 16:36:19 GMT
He along with Vranic and Tymon looked incredibly tired in the second half, probably why we looked so much worse. Not the best time to get a suspension from the team angle but a weekend off could be just what Joe needs. The team would be better off if he got the rest of the season off.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Nov 25, 2021 16:40:31 GMT
I'm not a fan of Allen and tbh i think he has been mostly average during his time here.
For me I think people *need* allen at stoke to work out. He fits the bill for the ideal player many want, 'hard working', 'captain material', 'played at a big club', 'has a successful international career'.
It's one thing for the likes of Imbula or Wimmer to fail but Joe Allen?
So when he under performs here, which I think is a lot you get a ready made list of reasons to deny this.
"others played badly" "consecutive managers have picked him"
if he was as good for us as some seem to suggest, why has he not moved on? We have to bring in money for FPP? Where is the £10m bid from West Ham or Burnley? Why is this supposedly good footballer happily spending a fourth season in the championship?
again, not doubting he is very good for Wales. Just accept an offer for him and move on.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2021 17:04:18 GMT
I think if both are fit both will need to play until we sign a dm or at least a physical centre mid. If Powell was fit, I’d have given Thompson the opportunity to play alongside Powell and Vrancic, but I wouldn’t play him (or anyone really) with Vrancic and Sawyers in the same team. I’m not the biggest fan of shoehorning Powell up front as I think he doesn’t work too well alongside Fletcher (better behind) and Fletcher shouldn’t be dropped. I still think you need to get plenty of legs/protection around Vrancic, which is hard if he's playing in that deeper role. Know what you mean about Powell/Fletcher, both benefit from the movement of a Brown or Campbell alongside them.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Nov 26, 2021 17:49:53 GMT
So, let’s work this one out and try to be sensible. Our midfield trio currently consists of Allen who has just played how many games in the last month? a player that at times resembles the invisible man and another who is an excellent footballer the wrong side of 30, and being constructive critical is “lightweight” Yet Allen is the anti christ of our midfield…….OK Not at all. I take it Sawyers is your invisible man? I refer to him as the non combatant, he’s utter garbage his ability on the ball is supposed to make up for the fact he opts out of the rest of the game tbh he’s casual with the ball too often gifting possession to our opponents, the amount of telling balls he’s producing is minimal. Unlike Vrancic who’s had an involvement in the majority of our goals this season and does plenty of work off the ball for such a creative player. Our midfield is just unbalanced and ineffective.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Nov 26, 2021 18:20:39 GMT
So, let’s work this one out and try to be sensible. Our midfield trio currently consists of Allen who has just played how many games in the last month? a player that at times resembles the invisible man and another who is an excellent footballer the wrong side of 30, and being constructive critical is “lightweight” Yet Allen is the anti christ of our midfield…….OK Not at all. I take it Sawyers is your invisible man? I refer to him as the non combatant, he’s utter garbage his ability on the ball is supposed to make up for the fact he opts out of the rest of the game tbh he’s casual with the ball too often gifting possession to our opponents, the amount of telling balls he’s producing is minimal. Unlike Vrancic who’s had an involvement in the majority of our goals this season and does plenty of work off the ball for such a creative player. Our midfield is just unbalanced and ineffective. Sawyers always seems to be within 5 yards of the ball when it’s up in the air or the other team are challenging for a second ball in the middle 3rd, but he never quite closes them down or tries to win it.
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