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Post by werrington on Jun 18, 2021 21:03:59 GMT
Scotland match behind us now and we move on
The England support let Southgate know at FT their feelings so he needs to go more attacking as he tends to shit himself at worryingly regularity
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Post by chuckrocky on Jun 18, 2021 21:18:13 GMT
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Mings
Chilwell
Phillips
Foden
Sancho
Mount
Grealish
Calvert-Lewin
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 18, 2021 21:39:28 GMT
Pickford Walker Stones Mings Chilwell Phillips Foden Sancho Mount Grealish Calvert-Lewin Calvert Lewin is a good point. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2021 21:47:50 GMT
Pickford
James
Stones
Mings
Shaw
Phillips
Bellingham
Foden
Mount
Sancho
Calvert-Lewin
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 18, 2021 21:50:41 GMT
Pickford James Stones Mings Shaw Phillips Bellingham Foden Mount Sancho Calvert-Lewin I’d certainly advocate not playing Rice, I’m still unsure what he brings to the party in an England shirt if I’m honest.... |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 18, 2021 21:50:56 GMT
Pickford
Trippier
Stones
Mings
Chillwell
Rice
Bellingham
Sancho
Foden
Grealish
Calvert Lewin
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2021 21:52:16 GMT
Pickford James Stones Mings Shaw Phillips Bellingham Foden Mount Sancho Calvert-Lewin I’d certainly advocate not playing Rice, I’m still unsure what he brings to the party in an England shirt if I’m honest.... I thought he was tidy enough against Croatia but just wasn’t needed at all tonight. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 18, 2021 21:53:24 GMT
I’d certainly advocate not playing Rice, I’m still unsure what he brings to the party in an England shirt if I’m honest.... I thought he was tidy enough against Croatia but just wasn’t needed at all tonight. He always looks tidy, but for me Bellingham and Phillips are more complete footballers whilst still being able to do the dirty work that Rice does...... |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2021 21:55:11 GMT
I thought he was tidy enough against Croatia but just wasn’t needed at all tonight. He always looks tidy, but for me Bellingham and Phillips are more complete footballers whilst still being able to do the dirty work that Rice does...... Agree, definitely more facets to that midfield. |
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Post by upthefud on Jun 19, 2021 6:49:44 GMT
I think we'll play for the draw.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Mings
Shaw
Phillips
Rice
Sterling
Foden
Grealish
Kane
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Post by bingbang on Jun 19, 2021 7:27:40 GMT
If you think last night was boring wait till Tuesday. A 0 0 will probably see us finish second which would suit us going forward. On that note something should be done in tournaments so as teams can’t manipulate scores and who they play in the next rounds.
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Post by werrington on Jun 19, 2021 7:32:01 GMT
If you think last night was boring wait till Tuesday. A 0 0 will probably see us finish second which would suit us going forward. On that note something should be done in tournaments so as teams can’t manipulate scores and who they play in the next rounds. I agree with your first few lines but how can the England game be manipulated as surely if that the case the Czechs want second also? |
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Post by werrington on Jun 19, 2021 7:36:20 GMT
I think Southgate may well of had his mark hughes v Leicester moment last night when the support finally started to seriously doubt him
He needs to let this squad of players loose and let them show the talent they’ve got
Sancho 16 goals on 21 games for Dortmund not used, Bellingham unused and the list goes on
He shit himself v Croatia 2018 and he’s starting to shit himself again
Let them fucking loose Gareth
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 19, 2021 7:36:38 GMT
If Grealish is the answer, I’d love to know what the question is.
Any half competent defence would have no problem coping with a player whose game, seemingly, is based on running head down into dead ends.
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Post by werrington on Jun 19, 2021 7:38:15 GMT
If Grealish is the answer, I’d love to know what the question is. Any half competent defence would have no problem coping with a player whose game, seemingly, is based on running head down into dead ends. Grealish makes things happen mate, he runs at defenders making them back off or commit fouls and his first thought is forwards He was well down the list of finger pointing last night |
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 19, 2021 7:43:12 GMT
If Grealish is the answer, I’d love to know what the question is. Any half competent defence would have no problem coping with a player whose game, seemingly, is based on running head down into dead ends. Grealish makes things happen mate, he runs at defenders making them back off or commit fouls and his first thought is forwards He was well down the list of finger pointing last night He came on and did nothing. A one dimensional player that a decent defender can easily take care of or a well set defence can cope with. I agree he wasn’t the worst last night, but he is not going to lead us to the promised land if he starts. |
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Post by werrington on Jun 19, 2021 7:45:19 GMT
Grealish makes things happen mate, he runs at defenders making them back off or commit fouls and his first thought is forwards He was well down the list of finger pointing last night He came on and did nothing. A one dimensional player that a decent defender can easily take care of or a well set defence can cope with. I agree he wasn’t the worst last night, but he is not going to lead us to the promised land if he starts. He will if he isn’t saddled with TWO holding midfielders |
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Post by misterj on Jun 19, 2021 7:53:49 GMT
Very good point about teams shouldn’t be able to manipulate their third game, only way out of this would be to
Defer the draw for the round of 16 knockout phase until after group games are completed?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 8:02:52 GMT
If you think last night was boring wait till Tuesday. A 0 0 will probably see us finish second which would suit us going forward. On that note something should be done in tournaments so as teams can’t manipulate scores and who they play in the next rounds. Like bringing back public hanging. |
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Jun 19, 2021 8:04:45 GMT
Tricky game against the Czechs i thought they looked better than Croatia.
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Post by bingbang on Jun 19, 2021 8:06:55 GMT
If you think last night was boring wait till Tuesday. A 0 0 will probably see us finish second which would suit us going forward. On that note something should be done in tournaments so as teams can’t manipulate scores and who they play in the next rounds. I agree with your first few lines but how can the England game be manipulated as surely if that the case the Czechs want second also? Exactly that’s my point, a 0 0 will suit England but Czechs would prefer to lose, it could be embarrassing to watch. |
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 19, 2021 8:07:07 GMT
He came on and did nothing. A one dimensional player that a decent defender can easily take care of or a well set defence can cope with. I agree he wasn’t the worst last night, but he is not going to lead us to the promised land if he starts. He will if he isn’t saddled with TWO holding midfielders Possibly... but if he is as good as folk think he is that shouldn’t have stopped him making an impact. I’m minded of the difference De Bruyne made the other day when he came on. I appreciate it’s unfair to make comparisons with him, but it does show what top quality players can do. Anyway, thinking of impact subs took me back to 1986 and the last time we played Scotland in a Euro finals game. At half time the situation was pretty much the same as yesterday, a lacklustre England struggling against a Scottish team up for the fight. Venables recognising what was wrong brought on Redknapp at half time to allow us to hold the ball more in midfield and make better use of it going forward. It worked a treat. Sadly Southgate didn’t seem to have bothered to check out that game to see what lessons he could learn because we were crying out for something similar yesterday. |
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Post by bingbang on Jun 19, 2021 8:09:31 GMT
Most of the England players are only good because they are surrounded by world class players at their clubs who aren’t English.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 19, 2021 8:15:02 GMT
I don't know enough about the squad players to suggest proper solutions, but last night was eerily akin to Rowettball. Ponderous possession, a midfield that has no presence when defending or attacking and poor old Harry Kane doing a fantastic impression of Benin Afobe, trapped in a system that brings the worst out of him. Foden and Sterling could both have been mistaken for a late-stage Tom Ince. I've never rated Pickford, who got away with his usual trick of making a regulation save look difficult and palming it straight to an opponent, and the less said about the defence the better.
All in all, I'm sick to the back teeth of 4-3-3 and its ubiquity in modern football. It's no exagerration to say that it has ruined the last four years of football for me.
Take Foden, Grealish and co. Once upon a time, these would be conventional playmakers behind a centre forward, with nippy wingers ahead to cause mayhem. Now they're sort of paceless wide forwards because 4-3-3, which just leaves them completely isolated when there is no midfield presence, just like last night. Apparently, even Rashford isn't a centre forward anymore? It's scary how easily they were neutralised by an organised team, which is again very Stoke. Credit to Scotland, who put in hard yards and coordination where England wouldn't.
I don't know where to go from that. 4-3-3 isn't a good enough system that it's worth neutralising our best players, but Southgate isn't going to change his long term favoured system so speculation to the contrary is worthless. However, I've no desire to think about 4-3-3 outside of watching it butcher another game, so I'm going to be radical. Ish.
First off, I'd swap Pickford for somebody else. I don't know anything about the other goalkeepers but any of them will do.
Any of the back four should count themselves lucky to be picked again. They were all poor last night and just look so fragile. I actually rate both Trippier and Walker and would happily have either of them at full back. Maguire would be straight back in for Stones and I'd replace Mings with...Conor Coady?! Man alive.
Midfield...no idea. It's very retrograde, but I think I'd actually go for a 4-2-3-1. I suppose that means a midfield of Phillips, Rice and Grealish. I would then focus on pace out wide. Sterling should be given the option of publicly apologising for his outrageous dive and missing the next game, or being sent home. Either way, he's out of contention. That leaves any two out of Sancho, Bellingham and Rashford for the wide roles.
I'd keep Kane for now in the hope that a better system brings more out him. He should be better when surrounded by players, rather than isolated. It's important that England are prepared to use him as a more direct option when tippy tappy inevitably leaves us trapped on the edge of our own box.
What a mess. Maybe I'm being hysterical about it. I don't rate Southgate, but he knows a lot more than I do about international management. It's just a frustrating puzzle where you can see lots of useful pieces but not how to bring them all together.
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Post by shrewspotter on Jun 19, 2021 8:24:12 GMT
I think Southgates had a prolonged honeymoon period, semi finals of the World Cup was great albeit we didn’t beat anyone of note. Easy qualifying group but now the pressures on. Once again England expects and his easy ride is over
For me I think it needs freshening up, I’d bring in Sancho, Bellingham, Grealish, Trippier, Chilwell and Maguire. Dropping Sterling, Rice, James, Shaw, Mount and Mings
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jun 19, 2021 8:25:32 GMT
Pickford
James
Mings
Stones
Shaw
Rice
Bellingham
Grealish
Mount
Sancho
DCL
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 19, 2021 9:15:51 GMT
I think Southgates had a prolonged honeymoon period, semi finals of the World Cup was great albeit we didn’t beat anyone of note. Easy qualifying group but now the pressures on. Once again England expects and his easy ride is over For me I think it needs freshening up, I’d bring in Sancho, Bellingham, Grealish, Trippier, Chilwell and Maguire. Dropping Sterling, Rice, James, Shaw, Mount and Mings Colombia were of note. |
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Post by yyy on Jun 19, 2021 9:18:25 GMT
At least if we don't go through Southgate position becomes untenable
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Post by zerps on Jun 19, 2021 9:19:20 GMT
Scotland match behind us now and we move on The England support let Southgate know at FT their feelings so he needs to go more attacking as he tends to shit himself at worryingly regularity It was the match of a generation and we had to beat them for the fans |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 19, 2021 9:21:49 GMT
Scotland match behind us now and we move on The England support let Southgate know at FT their feelings so he needs to go more attacking as he tends to shit himself at worryingly regularity It was the match of a generation and we had to beat them for the fans We're all disappointed with how we played. But what's done is done. Upward and onwards. |
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