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Post by PotterLog on Jun 8, 2021 21:37:22 GMT
But it isn't helping though is it. There is a very clear percentage of British society that don't like it and they are not all racists. There are much less divisive ways of doing this, why not concentrate on that? It would certainly turn the temperature down or do you want it to get to a more serious disagreement. Is this how we find the racists, when the violence begins. And all the while the real racists in society are loving it just as much as BLM will be licking their lips. We live in a democracy though. So if they think taking the knee helps they have the right to continue to do it. I don't think the booing helps but I haven't tried to stop anyone booing. Racists have had a pretty easy time of it in the UK for a very long time. We even have a current Prime minister who used a phrase of slaver origin, namely, "piccaninnies with watermelon smiles" to describe black children. So the actions taken so far to try to eradicate racism in the UK haven't exactly been a resounding success, have they? If taking the knee gets up the noses of people like Boris Johnson, that's fine by me. An elite British sportsman’s career is currently in tatters because of some off-colour tweets he published as a teenager a decade ago. Racists do not “have an easy time of it” in the UK.
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Post by retrostoke on Jun 8, 2021 21:47:10 GMT
Respect and support has to be earned on and off the pitch. Several of the current England players think they are above the law off the pitch and give little evidence of “pride” on the pitch. Actions engender respect not words. So nice words Gareth but well wide of the mark in this generation of players
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 8, 2021 21:48:34 GMT
Respect and support has to be earned on and off the pitch. Several of the current England players think they are above the law off the pitch and give little evidence of “pride” on the pitch. Actions engender respect not words. So nice words Gareth but well wide of the mark in this generation of players I think they’re a much more likeable bunch than the ‘golden generation’.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 8, 2021 21:50:00 GMT
We live in a democracy though. So if they think taking the knee helps they have the right to continue to do it. I don't think the booing helps but I haven't tried to stop anyone booing. Racists have had a pretty easy time of it in the UK for a very long time. We even have a current Prime minister who used a phrase of slaver origin, namely, "piccaninnies with watermelon smiles" to describe black children. So the actions taken so far to try to eradicate racism in the UK haven't exactly been a resounding success, have they? If taking the knee gets up the noses of people like Boris Johnson, that's fine by me. So you like it because it gets up peoples noses, in particular the Prime Minister? (who I agree is a bell end) But want to ignore where it is all heading? Recipe for disaster that attitude in my opinion. But yeah lets keep doubling down to teach the unwashed football masses a lesson and risk major bother rather than come up with our own original ideas. The American knee bending import will indeed do. I don't like it BECAUSE it gets up people's noses. I never said that. If taking the knee gets up Boris Johnson's nose, that's a bonus! As I said, racists have had a pretty easy time of it in the UK and a lot of well intentioned initiatives haven't really helped much because a significant minority of British people are confirmed racists. Taking the knee is black sportsmen (with the support of their non black colleagues) expressing their disgust at the way many in their community have been unfairly treated over many many years by some of the public and some of institutions of this country. Maybe one day that discrimination will stop - I do hope so.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 21:55:39 GMT
So you like it because it gets up peoples noses, in particular the Prime Minister? (who I agree is a bell end) But want to ignore where it is all heading? Recipe for disaster that attitude in my opinion. But yeah lets keep doubling down to teach the unwashed football masses a lesson and risk major bother rather than come up with our own original ideas. The American knee bending import will indeed do. I don't like it BECAUSE it gets up people's noses. I never said that. If taking the knee gets up Boris Johnson's nose, that's a bonus! As I said, racists have had a pretty easy time of it in the UK and a lot of well intentioned initiatives haven't really helped much because a significant minority of British people are confirmed racists. Taking the knee is black sportsmen (with the support of their non black colleagues) expressing their disgust at the way many in their community have been unfairly treated over many many years by some of the public and some of institutions of this country. Maybe one day that discrimination will stop - I do hope so. A significant minority of British people are not racists Taking the knee is not black people expressing their disgust at the way they are treated , which is why Wilfred zaha , Les Ferdinand , Billy vunipola and others don't take the knee
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Post by spitshaw on Jun 8, 2021 22:02:06 GMT
People aren’t booing players for making a stand against racism They are booing players that they believe are showing support for a racist Marxist organisation who want to subjugate the very people who are being asked not to boo What does Marxism mean and why is BLM Marxist mate?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 8, 2021 22:02:53 GMT
That’s fair comment Lakes but are we saying that it should carry on for ever then and that the rules of kick-off should be changed to accommodate it ? Is there an end game here - what about when there’s a death at the club - we have the minutes silence / applause then the knee-take and then the game? The initial links to BLM and the whole knee bending hoohaa in America have stained this just cause of anti racism beyond repair. To continue to double down with this rhetoric that we will keep doing it to make a stand against racists is completely and wilfully misunderstanding the reality of British society. Not all people who boo are racists. And if these oh so virtuous lovers of harmony and racial inequality really did want to stop the current divide they would compromise and come up with a different positive gesture that all anti racists could get behind. But no keep doubling down and keep heating that pot. This sadly will not end well and BLM will love it. They'd boo the other alternate gesture though wouldn't they? They d fall for the same trick on that as well, letting the Right wing media appeal to their insecurities and prejudice s by performing the kind of mental gymnastics required to link an innocent anti racist gesture to a make believe political movement that supposedly is a threat to white people.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 8, 2021 22:03:26 GMT
So you like it because it gets up peoples noses, in particular the Prime Minister? (who I agree is a bell end) But want to ignore where it is all heading? Recipe for disaster that attitude in my opinion. But yeah lets keep doubling down to teach the unwashed football masses a lesson and risk major bother rather than come up with our own original ideas. The American knee bending import will indeed do. I don't like it BECAUSE it gets up people's noses. I never said that. If taking the knee gets up Boris Johnson's nose, that's a bonus! As I said, racists have had a pretty easy time of it in the UK and a lot of well intentioned initiatives haven't really helped much because a significant minority of British people are confirmed racists. Taking the knee is black sportsmen (with the support of their non black colleagues) expressing their disgust at the way many in their community have been unfairly treated over many many years by some of the public and some of institutions of this country. Maybe one day that discrimination will stop - I do hope so. No, taking the knee was African American sportsmen expressing their disgust at the way they have been treated. America, where there was a need for a civil rights movement in the 60s because of how backwards that country was. Racial discrimination is and has been illegal in this country for a long long time, we have been a civil society for a very long period of time. You know full well there are much less divisive ways of the UK dealing with this but seem to have jumped on the doomed to fail bandwagon of doubling down to "teach these racists a lesson". It'll end in disaster but it really doesn't have to if we come up with something else rather than this knee bending group think.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 8, 2021 22:05:16 GMT
We live in a democracy though. So if they think taking the knee helps they have the right to continue to do it. I don't think the booing helps but I haven't tried to stop anyone booing. Racists have had a pretty easy time of it in the UK for a very long time. We even have a current Prime minister who used a phrase of slaver origin, namely, "piccaninnies with watermelon smiles" to describe black children. So the actions taken so far to try to eradicate racism in the UK haven't exactly been a resounding success, have they? If taking the knee gets up the noses of people like Boris Johnson, that's fine by me. An elite British sportsman’s career is currently in tatters because of some off-colour tweets he published as a teenager a decade ago. Racists do not “have an easy time of it” in the UK. He'll serve his suspension and will probably have a glittering England career. And I have no problem with that. If he hadn't been picked for England (and let's face it, most of the population whether racist or not, are not picked for England!!!) the racist tweets from when he was a teenager would have remained buried - providing he didn't keep on repeating the offence.
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Post by spitshaw on Jun 8, 2021 22:07:32 GMT
it starts to elevate the black movement above equal. Except it doesn't. Racism hasn't gone away all of a sudden. And the fact that you see kneeling for two seconds before a game as meaning the black movement think they're above white people? You're saying the quiet part out loud ha
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 8, 2021 22:09:49 GMT
The initial links to BLM and the whole knee bending hoohaa in America have stained this just cause of anti racism beyond repair. To continue to double down with this rhetoric that we will keep doing it to make a stand against racists is completely and wilfully misunderstanding the reality of British society. Not all people who boo are racists. And if these oh so virtuous lovers of harmony and racial inequality really did want to stop the current divide they would compromise and come up with a different positive gesture that all anti racists could get behind. But no keep doubling down and keep heating that pot. This sadly will not end well and BLM will love it. They'd boo the other alternate gesture though wouldn't they? They d fall for the same trick on that as well, letting the Right wing media appeal to their insecurities and prejudice s by performing the kind of mental gymnastics required to link an innocent anti racist gesture to a make believe political movement that supposedly is a threat to white people. I think you underestimate British society, possibly through over exposure to the Guardian and their rhetoric of what a dreadful place the UK is? I surmise. We have a left wing media as well and its very active with the division. I don't remember KIO getting booed. Lets have some imagination and come up with something we can all support. There will always be some racists so lets isolate them properly instead of letting them hide amongst people who have valid objections to knee bending.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 22:11:13 GMT
The initial links to BLM and the whole knee bending hoohaa in America have stained this just cause of anti racism beyond repair. To continue to double down with this rhetoric that we will keep doing it to make a stand against racists is completely and wilfully misunderstanding the reality of British society. Not all people who boo are racists. And if these oh so virtuous lovers of harmony and racial inequality really did want to stop the current divide they would compromise and come up with a different positive gesture that all anti racists could get behind. But no keep doubling down and keep heating that pot. This sadly will not end well and BLM will love it. They'd boo the other alternate gesture though wouldn't they? They d fall for the same trick on that as well, letting the Right wing media appeal to their insecurities and prejudice s by performing the kind of mental gymnastics required to link an innocent anti racist gesture to a make believe political movement that supposedly is a threat to white people. Would they? There have been other gestures in the past such as both teams lining up behind a Kick It Out banner and I don't recall any boos.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 8, 2021 22:12:39 GMT
They'd boo the other alternate gesture though wouldn't they? They d fall for the same trick on that as well, letting the Right wing media appeal to their insecurities and prejudice s by performing the kind of mental gymnastics required to link an innocent anti racist gesture to a make believe political movement that supposedly is a threat to white people. Would they? There have been other gestures in the past such as both teams lining up behind a Kick It Out banner and I don't recall any boos. Maybe the daily mail didn't tell them to boo the kick it out banners
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 8, 2021 22:13:43 GMT
They'd boo the other alternate gesture though wouldn't they? They d fall for the same trick on that as well, letting the Right wing media appeal to their insecurities and prejudice s by performing the kind of mental gymnastics required to link an innocent anti racist gesture to a make believe political movement that supposedly is a threat to white people. I think you underestimate British society, possibly through over exposure to the Guardian and their rhetoric of what a dreadful place the UK is? I surmise. We have a left wing media as well and its very active with the division. I don't remember KIO getting booed. Lets have some imagination and come up with something we can all support. There will always be some racists so lets isolate them properly instead of letting them hide amongst people who have valid objections to knee bending. We certainly don't have an active left wing media. We have a dominant right wing media, finding offence in the most minor things to deflect deflect deflect, and people fall for it
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Post by fazza90 on Jun 8, 2021 22:14:17 GMT
It's all a bit ridiculous. 99% of people agree with the message but not the gesture so the simple thing is to change the gesutre surely then everyone can stop getting pissy, and it becomes less "them v us" & more "we" which can only help the team.
Southgate does seem like a top fella but I really hope he has a healthy pair of gonads on him this summer as our attacking options are frightening.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 22:15:00 GMT
Would they? There have been other gestures in the past such as both teams lining up behind a Kick It Out banner and I don't recall any boos. Maybe the daily mail didn't tell them to boo the kick it out banners I've got no time at all for racism and I don't like to hear the boos but people like you can be just as narrow minded and prejudiced.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 8, 2021 22:15:31 GMT
Would they? There have been other gestures in the past such as both teams lining up behind a Kick It Out banner and I don't recall any boos. Maybe the daily mail didn't tell them to boo the kick it out banners And you’re accusing others of mental gymnastics
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Post by songthrush01 on Jun 8, 2021 22:18:03 GMT
People aren’t booing players for making a stand against racism They are booing players that they believe are showing support for a racist Marxist organisation who want to subjugate the very people who are being asked not to boo correct. but remember this in 5 years time, there will be all england black team. where is the racism?
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Post by fca47 on Jun 8, 2021 22:19:44 GMT
Taking the Knee means nothing in The UK, it is just another load of codswallop imported from The U.S. Whatever anyone says it is associated with BLM, a racist organisation it self. I wouldn't boo myself but I thinks they are a bunch of sheep who are afraid to say no, no one would argue with the statement BLM but that is not what it is all about, just a way for the marxists smear people who oppose their organisation.
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Post by skip on Jun 8, 2021 22:25:37 GMT
Choice pick of the replies of far: "Not all people who boo are racists."
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When no black footballer gets racial abuse at a game or as is more common nowadays, by some cowardly wanker on social media, then I suspect the knee gesture will stop.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 8, 2021 22:26:10 GMT
I think you underestimate British society, possibly through over exposure to the Guardian and their rhetoric of what a dreadful place the UK is? I surmise. We have a left wing media as well and its very active with the division. I don't remember KIO getting booed. Lets have some imagination and come up with something we can all support. There will always be some racists so lets isolate them properly instead of letting them hide amongst people who have valid objections to knee bending. We certainly don't have an active left wing media. We have a dominant right wing media, finding offence in the most minor things to deflect deflect deflect, and people fall for it Yeah ok, we'll ignore The Guardian, Independent, Mirror, Star etc. Last I checked they were very active. But I get it Murdoch poisons all our minds because we are unable to think for ourselves, even though he ushered in the Blair years. Did KIO get booed? Do you really think we are incapable of creating our own anti racist message and have to rely on a divisive US import? Is the UK that far gone into the pits of debauchery?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 8, 2021 22:27:26 GMT
People aren’t booing players for making a stand against racism They are booing players that they believe are showing support for a racist Marxist organisation who want to subjugate the very people who are being asked not to boo What does Marxism mean and why is BLM Marxist mate? Marxism : A method of socioeconomic analysis that is uses a materialist interpretation of historical development Two of the original three founder members of BLM We’re self confessed Marxists
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 22:29:22 GMT
Southgate on his players ...
"It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate"
Why ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 22:30:50 GMT
A profound and powerful message and I don't think anyone could doubt the sincerity of Southgate's intentions to galvanise the country ahead of the competition. Similarly his condemnation of the racist abuse of players online (or off for that matter) is heartfelt and reflective of the opinions of 99.99% of all decent citizens (not just football fans) who find it abhorrent, disgusting and unacceptable in every way shape or form. There is a "but" for me though. The ongoing "taking the knee" gesture that was borne out of the raw emotion generated across the globe by a single, highly violent and controversial incident in the cesspit that is the US, has departed from that initial demonstration of outrage and is clearly (and ironically) starting to divide those who see it as having now metamorphisised to a more political, agenda-driven vehicle far removed from those original simple intentions of utter condemnation. Indeed, it had great impact and was very successful in creating a reaction and for the perpetrators, swift and some might say pretty brutal justice, but I fear for where this is now leading - are we / they saying that it's going to continue in perpetuity? - could it? should it? Are all Euro teams left to decide whether they do or don't TTK, what happens if some do and some don't? - will they be booed - who will be booing who and who will have their cards marked on & off the pitch if they do / don't? What happens next season in the Prem, EFL and beyonds ad infenitum....... It seems that the continual pushing of line that if you don't support TTK or express any alernate viewpoint or outward signs of disagreement that each and every match needs to incorporte the ritual then "you are by definition a racist" I fear for the future of the game. If Les Ferdinand can see that it's run it's course and had it's impact then why can't other moderate people in the game ? A single incident? George Floyd was one of many, many such incidents. Otherwise, I kind of agree. I personally don’t think that it accomplishes much apart from keeping racism in the National conversation. I don’t really see why people care if others do/don’t do it to be honest.
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Post by skip on Jun 8, 2021 22:32:36 GMT
Southgate on his players ... "It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate" Why ? Because they are arguably the highest profile people in the public eye in Britain. Its not as if they're going on Question Time or Newsnight. They're just taking the knee, in a show of solidarity to one another. A ten second gesture.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 22:32:51 GMT
Southgate on his players ... "It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate" Why ? And for years I thought it was their duty to win football matches and entertain us, turns out I was wrong
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Post by peterpan1 on Jun 8, 2021 22:34:13 GMT
We certainly don't have an active left wing media. We have a dominant right wing media, finding offence in the most minor things to deflect deflect deflect, and people fall for it Yeah ok, we'll ignore The Guardian, Independent, Mirror, Star etc. Last I checked they were very active. But I get it Murdoch poisons all our minds because we are unable to think for ourselves, even though he ushered in the Blair years. Did KIO get booed? Do you really think we are incapable of creating our own anti racist message and have to rely on a divisive US import? Is the UK that far gone into the pits of debauchery? We don't have a left wing media?? Really? The BBC, Channel 4, Sky to name but a few. The wokery of these lot is beyond comprehension. I stopped paying my TV licence yrs ago. I'll stop at Gary Lineker and his remark about taking in an immigrant, the jug eared twat.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 8, 2021 22:36:01 GMT
What does Marxism mean and why is BLM Marxist mate? Marxism : A method of socioeconomic analysis that is uses a materialist interpretation of historical development Two of the original three founder members of BLM We’re self confessed Marxists Or an ideology written by a rank hypocrite living off the spoils of his extremely wealthy mate that provided the template for communism which was pretty effective in killing tens of millions world wide. Not that good really.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 22:36:11 GMT
Perhaps because Les Ferdinand does not represent the majority opinion amongst moderate people in English football? I'm not saying Ferdinand is wrong or that those who take the knee are right - just pointing out that people do have differing opinions even when they are basically on the same side. That's why I personally think booing taking the knee is wrong. It should be possible for a sportsman to express an honestly held opinion without being booed for it - I wouldn't dream of booing Les Ferdinand because he happens to have a different opinion on making a stand against racism than I do.. That’s fair comment Lakes but are we saying that it should carry on for ever then and that the rules of kick-off should be changed to accommodate it ? Is there an end game here - what about when there’s a death at the club - we have the minutes silence / applause then the knee-take and then the game? If the rules of kick off are changed, then it becomes pointless. It’s supposed to be an individual expression of respect and sorrow.
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Post by skip on Jun 8, 2021 22:39:44 GMT
Marxism : A method of socioeconomic analysis that is uses a materialist interpretation of historical development Two of the original three founder members of BLM We’re self confessed Marxists Or an ideology written by a rank hypocrite living off the spoils of his extremely wealthy mate that provided the template for communism which was pretty effective in killing tens of millions world wide. Not that good really. That's precisely what is written on his tombstone in Highgate Cemetery! p.s. Capitalism has killed way more.
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