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Post by Gods on May 23, 2021 18:41:08 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United.
Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1.
While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to find it in our hearts to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized.
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Post by scfc75 on May 23, 2021 18:48:21 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United. Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1. While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized. If he was called Mario Hughesio, hadn’t had the recent failure at QPR on his CV, but had engineered the exact same results and league positions with us, he wouldn’t get half the shit that he does on here. |
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Post by robwahlmann on May 23, 2021 19:00:57 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United. Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1. While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized. I feel he benefitted a lot from the foundation TP had created, but LMH didn't understand what kind of characters that were needed to keep a club like Stoke up. His 3 first seasons were amazing, but then he decided to throw too many of the right characters off the boat at the same time and the result was inevitable. He brought some fantastic players to Stoke though during his reign, but a lot of shit too, and at our best we really could beat anybody in the league. Unfortunately he couldn't see the signals before it was too late.  |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 23, 2021 19:02:12 GMT
If the owners had done with him what they did with Pulis and got rid just before things really turned sour he'd be much better thought of. He could've gone after that absolute gubbing at Palace near the start of his fourth season, he should've gone at the end of that season for sure. He arguably could've gone at the end of his third season because we were rotten after the semi final - if we'd finished bottom half instead of clawing another ninth on the last day, there may have been a decision to make then.
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Post by hardcastle on May 23, 2021 19:06:17 GMT
In what way does Hughes' failure at QPR diminish his record in his first two and a half to three seasons here? All it shows is Coates' preparedness to overlook that and see something in him which would work well here (so, good judgement on that score, Peter). Hughes' early recruitment record and league positions are there for all to see.
I think it's only his record here from Spring 2016 to Autumn 2017 (both in terms of recruitment and the regression of the team) that caused his and our downfall. Is anyone really disputing this?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 19:06:40 GMT
He deserved the many plaudits he got (we were really well thought of in the media for a short while) as he turned us into a really good football team.
He also deserves all the shit he got and still gets for playing a massive part in what we are today.
Having said that, the biggest culprits are the fuckwits in charge.
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Post by telfordstokie on May 23, 2021 19:30:19 GMT
Not defending the shitshow of his last year or so but one area where Hughes really was unlucky/working with the wrong people above him were the signings we narrowly missed out - Harry Maguire, Andy Robertson and Adama Traore were among those he wanted at various times. Could have been a very different story for him and us if we’d got one or two of those over the line.
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Post by GeneralFaye on May 23, 2021 19:32:24 GMT
It's their first season in the league tbf, Hughes did it in our 6th was it?...
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 19:33:28 GMT
every full season Hughes had at a club he came top half , that includes us, Blackburn and Fulham. Hardly the biggest club and a great record.
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Post by theonlooker on May 23, 2021 19:40:56 GMT
every full season Hughes had at a club he came top half , that includes us, Blackburn and Fulham. Hardly the biggest club and a great record. 16/17 he and we finished 13th. Bottom half. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 23, 2021 19:41:20 GMT
I’d have hughes back tomorrow , wonder if he’d make a decent director of football,
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Post by Gods on May 23, 2021 19:48:38 GMT
If the owners had done with him what they did with Pulis and got rid just before things really turned sour he'd be much better thought of. He could've gone after that absolute gubbing at Palace near the start of his fourth season, he should've gone at the end of that season for sure. He arguably could've gone at the end of his third season because we were rotten after the semi final - if we'd finished bottom half instead of clawing another ninth on the last day, there may have been a decision to make then. You mean the 4-1 defeat at Palace. I was there that day. They had Benteke up front as a loan striker and we had Bony. Best goal of the afternoon was Arnie's 94th minute consolation, he absolutely clattered it in, it just briefly took the smile off the faces of the Palace fans to our right, 'Have that you tossers!'  NB Here it is, warning low res, but what a hit! |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 19:49:32 GMT
every full season Hughes had at a club he came top half , that includes us, Blackburn and Fulham. Hardly the biggest club and a great record. 16/17 he and we finished 13th. Bottom half. Actually yep 1 season. Would take that now though 3 top 10 with Blackburn Including Europe. finished 6th or 7th a couple of seasons seem to remember 3 with us 1 with Fulham 8th I think not bad |
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Post by lordb on May 23, 2021 19:50:40 GMT
I’d have hughes back tomorrow , wonder if he’d make a decent director of football, I think he'd suit the Wales job |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 19:57:44 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United. Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1. While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to find it in our hearts to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized. Bielsa managed a promoted team, whereas Hughes managed an aniti-establishment established team. Moreover Hughes had managed for, I don't remember exactly how many, but many years in the PL, Bielsa was new to the scene. I see that the thread has already turned into an Hughesbashing thread, well let me just praise Bielsa again. He's stayed true to his principles, even if Leeds had some unhappy results earlier in the season, and they've made excellent progression in the second part of the season. Coming at a time when a lot of managers are just repeating themselves, Bielsa is a refreshing newcomer, and I hope he gets the Manager of the Year award. Whereas we stalled at 9, I could see Leeds moving further up and could be, at least challenging, for the title within a year or two. Leeds' biggest concern must be that Bielsa will only sign a contract for another year. He may well extend it again, but if he doesn't the team could soon fall apart. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 20:07:08 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United. Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1. While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to find it in our hearts to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized. Bielsa managed a promoted team, whereas Hughes managed an aniti-establishment established team. Moreover Hughes had managed for, I don't remember exactly how many, but many years in the PL, Bielsa was new to the scene. I see that the thread has already turned into an Hughesbashing thread, well let me just praise Bielsa again. He's stayed true to his principles, even if Leeds had some unhappy results earlier in the season, and they've made excellent progression in the second part of the season. Coming at a time when a lot of managers are just repeating themselves, Bielsa is a refreshing newcomer, and I hope he gets the Manager of the Year award. Whereas we stalled at 9, I could see Leeds moving further up and could be, at least challenging, for the title within a year or two.Leeds' biggest concern must be that Bielsa will only sign a contract for another year. He may well extend it again, but if he doesn't the team could soon fall apart. Let's see what happens on that front. We didn't stall at 9th. We did pretty well every season to finish there. Only the second time in our long history we finished 3 times in the top half consecutively. i don't call that stalling. |
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Post by cr4zyd4ve on May 23, 2021 20:32:06 GMT
I’d have hughes back tomorrow , wonder if he’d make a decent director of football, I think he'd suit the Wales job Sarcasm? His first job in management was just that??? Edit: Did a decent job from memory!! |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 23, 2021 20:34:07 GMT
every full season Hughes had at a club he came top half , that includes us, Blackburn and Fulham. Hardly the biggest club and a great record. 16/17 he and we finished 13th. Bottom half. We were 3 points from an 8th place finish though. Everyone outside the top 7 was pants that season. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 20:55:36 GMT
Bielsa managed a promoted team, whereas Hughes managed an aniti-establishment established team. Moreover Hughes had managed for, I don't remember exactly how many, but many years in the PL, Bielsa was new to the scene. I see that the thread has already turned into an Hughesbashing thread, well let me just praise Bielsa again. He's stayed true to his principles, even if Leeds had some unhappy results earlier in the season, and they've made excellent progression in the second part of the season. Coming at a time when a lot of managers are just repeating themselves, Bielsa is a refreshing newcomer, and I hope he gets the Manager of the Year award. Whereas we stalled at 9, I could see Leeds moving further up and could be, at least challenging, for the title within a year or two.Leeds' biggest concern must be that Bielsa will only sign a contract for another year. He may well extend it again, but if he doesn't the team could soon fall apart. Let's see what happens on that front. We didn't stall at 9th. We did pretty well every season to finish there. Only the second time in our long history we finished 3 times in the top half consecutively. i don't call that stalling. You can't deny that we didn't climb above 9. So in terms of table position we stalled. Hughes wanted to take us higher. It was a mistake and we still haven't recovered. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 21:56:42 GMT
Let's see what happens on that front. We didn't stall at 9th. We did pretty well every season to finish there. Only the second time in our long history we finished 3 times in the top half consecutively. i don't call that stalling. You can't deny that we didn't climb above 9. So in terms of table position we stalled. Hughes wanted to take us higher. It was a mistake and we still haven't recovered. Fans get greedy also and want more. We weren't the first. He tried to improve a good side and couldn't. He dis try to sign players like Werner and Lacazette and perhaps could have worked. I met Hughes about 2 years ago and said he loved us but thought for some reason we hated him. Seemed really pleased when said would love that 9th place team again. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 23, 2021 22:24:53 GMT
He should have gone in the summer before he was sacked but in hindsight once we decided to stick with him it was foolish to get rid mid season.
I doubt he'd have been any worse than Lambert and he'd have been much better getting a tune out of the players he had signed than Rowett or Jones and we'd have had a much better chance of going up straight after too.
Like I say all in hindsight though.
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Post by Jimm on May 23, 2021 22:27:16 GMT
I'd have him back right now! Those 3 years were fucking magical, we should of won something! Nzonzi left and it slowly went to shit before snowballing in to an avalanche.
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Post by upthefud on May 24, 2021 2:52:40 GMT
3 9th placed finishes then £12m on Berahino, £18m on Wimmer and £18m on Imbula
It was good whilst it was good, and we’re still paying for how bad it got
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Post by Bagwash on May 24, 2021 3:05:38 GMT
He should have gone in the summer before he was sacked but in hindsight once we decided to stick with him it was foolish to get rid mid season. I doubt he'd have been any worse than Lambert and he'd have been much better getting a tune out of the players he had signed than Rowett or Jones and we'd have had a much better chance of going up straight after too. Like I say all in hindsight though. Agree matey,I still think that if we had kept Mark Hughes until the end of the season he would have got the points needed to stay up(4 points,I believe?) I certainly don't hate MH,some of the football we played during our purple patch was amongst the best I have seen down Stoke and,as you say in hindsight we should have not sacked him. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 4:04:57 GMT
When I see Leeds play (admittedly only highlights as I rarely watch live football) I find it a little difficult to comprehend that we were at that level just a few short years ago. 5 years or so is a bloody long time in football, it seems like an eternity now. I guess that's what happens when you spend a bunch of seasons being painfully mediocre (at best!) in a league where 90% of the teams are just dogshit attrition merchants.
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Post by stokiechris on May 24, 2021 5:21:21 GMT
Nicked this off Twitter, staggering how much he transformed so called average Championship players......
“Bielsa's 1st game v Stoke in Championship. Ayling, Berardi, Cooper, Phillips, Hernandez, Alioski, Dallas & Harrison all played that day. Bamford and Roberts were unused subs. All 10 played today as we ended this season 9th in the Prem.”
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Post by sheds1862 on May 24, 2021 5:30:01 GMT
Big difference is that Leeds were newly promoted and according to wags on here the Promoted teams are nailed on to go back down every season.
As Chris above rightly points out, they also haven't gone berserk in the transfer market.
That said i've never got the Hughes derision , others were culpable and maybe our time was done. We are all on loan there for a few years until the cycle starts again.
Basically attempting to stay in a League of 12 discounting 8 clubs who will probably never go down.
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Post by Gods on May 24, 2021 6:20:13 GMT
He should have gone in the summer before he was sacked but in hindsight once we decided to stick with him it was foolish to get rid mid season. I doubt he'd have been any worse than Lambert and he'd have been much better getting a tune out of the players he had signed than Rowett or Jones and we'd have had a much better chance of going up straight after too. Like I say all in hindsight though. He would only have needed 3 more points to stay up, perhaps 4 with goal difference and we had a run of easier home games coming up. When you think Lambert only won his first and last games in charge it's hard not to think we would have stayed up under Hughes |
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Post by cr4zyd4ve on May 24, 2021 7:00:14 GMT
I'd have him back right now! Those 3 years were fucking magical, we should of won something! Nzonzi left and it slowly went to shit before snowballing in to an avalanche. It has been mentioned a few times on here how much of a loss Nzonzi was. He was real class and was someone that a team could be built around. He did a lot of dirty work so that other players could express themselves. I feel he was another Stoke player that maybe didn't get the appreciation he deserved all the time when he was actually playing for us. As Joni Mitchell famously sang "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone". |
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Post by Gods on May 24, 2021 7:50:11 GMT
I'd have him back right now! Those 3 years were fucking magical, we should of won something! Nzonzi left and it slowly went to shit before snowballing in to an avalanche. It has been mentioned a few times on here how much of a loss Nzonzi was. He was real class and was someone that a team could be built around. He did a lot of dirty work so that other players could express themselves. I feel he was another Stoke player that maybe didn't get the appreciation he deserved all the time when he was actually playing for us. As Joni Mitchell famously sang "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone". I remember us playing Everton between Christmas and New year at Goodison Park, a wonderful evocative football ground, the last great standing citadel of a bygone era, Everton in blue jerseys and white shorts and the Potters in the famous red and white stripes. We led 1-0 through a penalty which Bojan the wonder-waif had won and converted. Everton were trying to press forward for an equaliser in the gathering gloom and from nowhere there was the most beautiful snow storm under the floodlights. It was a scene to lift your heart. Before I get too carried away on a flight of whimsy the point is that one player stood head and shoulders above everyone else in the driving snow, striding the stage like a colossus, that player was Steven N'Zonzi. |
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