|
Post by reddipotter on May 24, 2021 8:12:58 GMT
I'd have him back right now! Those 3 years were fucking magical, we should of won something! Nzonzi left and it slowly went to shit before snowballing in to an avalanche. It has been mentioned a few times on here how much of a loss Nzonzi was. He was real class and was someone that a team could be built around. He did a lot of dirty work so that other players could express themselves. I feel he was another Stoke player that maybe didn't get the appreciation he deserved all the time when he was actually playing for us. As Joni Mitchell famously sang "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone". I’m going to have that song going round my head all day now!
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on May 24, 2021 8:15:16 GMT
16/17 he and we finished 13th. Bottom half. We were 3 points from an 8th place finish though. Everyone outside the top 7 was pants that season. Still we could all see the decline, and Hughes really should have walked after that season. If he had gone at that point we might still have played at the top tier of English football!
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on May 24, 2021 8:25:01 GMT
We were 3 points from an 8th place finish though. Everyone outside the top 7 was pants that season. Still we could all see the decline, and Hughes really should have walked after that season. If he had gone at that point we might still have played at the top tier of English football! We lost Nzonzi and replaced him with Imbula. Imbula looked decent for 2 or 3 games. Was basically irreplaceable with our budget and scouting. We signed Saido Berahinho primarily to get one over on Pulis. We lost Arnie who was irreplaceable without spending 40/50m. We let Huth go for peanuts and we signed Wimmer allegedly to get one over on Pulis. These 4 decisions cost us our prem league position. Hughes was also taking us down unfortunately. The squad was incredibly poor that got relegated.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on May 24, 2021 8:28:10 GMT
It has been mentioned a few times on here how much of a loss Nzonzi was. He was real class and was someone that a team could be built around. He did a lot of dirty work so that other players could express themselves. I feel he was another Stoke player that maybe didn't get the appreciation he deserved all the time when he was actually playing for us. As Joni Mitchell famously sang "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone". I remember us playing Everton between Christmas and New year at Goodison Park, a wonderful evocative football ground, the last great standing citadel of a bygone era, Everton in blue jerseys and white shorts and the Potters in the famous red and white stripes. We led 1-0 through a penalty which Bojan the wonder-waif had won and converted. Everton were trying to press forward for an equaliser in the gathering gloom and from nowhere there was the most beautiful snow storm under the floodlights. It was a scene to lift your heart. Before I get too carried away on a flight of whimsy the point is that one player stood head and shoulders above everyone else, striding the stage like a colossus, that player was Steven N'Zonzi. Most folk on here dismissed N'Zonzi as a fairweather type who used to turn up when he felt like it. The truth is, he revolutionised our playing style and took us to a new level. Before he came we could not keep possession of the ball and we were struggling to find a way to survive in the Prem without Rory's long throws and Fuller's acts of brilliance. He improved players around him, Whelan looked a different footballer. Most influential player since Hudson, and if we ever get anyone anywhere near his calibre again we will be just fine.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on May 24, 2021 8:34:00 GMT
Still we could all see the decline, and Hughes really should have walked after that season. If he had gone at that point we might still have played at the top tier of English football! We lost Nzonzi and replaced him with Imbula. Imbula looked decent for 2 or 3 games. Was basically irreplaceable with our budget and scouting. We signed Saido Berahinho primarily to get one over on Pulis. We lost Arnie who was irreplaceable without spending 40/50m. We let Huth go for peanuts and we signed Wimmer allegedly to get one over on Pulis. These 4 decisions cost us our prem league position. Hughes was also taking us down unfortunately. The squad was incredibly poor that got relegated. Swapping Huth for Wimmer was the worst part here! We would probably have stayed up if Arnie had stayed too, but we really couldn't stop him from leaving. The same goes for NZonzi as they both were determined to leave. The gamble on Berahino could have gone well, but ended as too many of our signings at that point.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on May 24, 2021 8:38:17 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly, Wimmer was bought two and a half years after Huth left. It was Wollscheid who replaced Huth, and though he wasn't anywhere near the player Huth was, he didn't cost much and we weren't involved in relegation battles while he was playing for us.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 24, 2021 8:38:44 GMT
We really didn't swap Huth for Wimmer, Huth had been gone for years at that point and our league form didn't suffer one iota in his absence.
Ryan's injury problems starting were a much bigger factor.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on May 24, 2021 8:47:54 GMT
Fantastic achievement by Bielsa and Leeds.
They have been one of the highlights of the season.
They did it their way, conceding more goals than Fulham but 8 points off the Champions League is a great effort for a first season back in the Prem.
|
|
|
Post by cr4zyd4ve on May 24, 2021 11:39:30 GMT
It has been mentioned a few times on here how much of a loss Nzonzi was. He was real class and was someone that a team could be built around. He did a lot of dirty work so that other players could express themselves. I feel he was another Stoke player that maybe didn't get the appreciation he deserved all the time when he was actually playing for us. As Joni Mitchell famously sang "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone". I remember us playing Everton between Christmas and New year at Goodison Park, a wonderful evocative football ground, the last great standing citadel of a bygone era, Everton in blue jerseys and white shorts and the Potters in the famous red and white stripes. We led 1-0 through a penalty which Bojan the wonder-waif had won and converted. Everton were trying to press forward for an equaliser in the gathering gloom and from nowhere there was the most beautiful snow storm under the floodlights. It was a scene to lift your heart. Before I get too carried away on a flight of whimsy the point is that one player stood head and shoulders above everyone else, striding the stage like a colossus, that player was Steven N'Zonzi. How poetic, nearly brought a tear to my eye. Seriously though he was a massive loss if only we could have held onto him for another year or so. There were always rumours that he was restless and probably used us as a bit of a stepping stone! Fantastic player though! I loved Whelan personally but N'Zonzi was a step up again from him, they did compliment each other well though.
|
|
|
Post by cr4zyd4ve on May 24, 2021 11:45:55 GMT
I remember us playing Everton between Christmas and New year at Goodison Park, a wonderful evocative football ground, the last great standing citadel of a bygone era, Everton in blue jerseys and white shorts and the Potters in the famous red and white stripes. We led 1-0 through a penalty which Bojan the wonder-waif had won and converted. Everton were trying to press forward for an equaliser in the gathering gloom and from nowhere there was the most beautiful snow storm under the floodlights. It was a scene to lift your heart. Before I get too carried away on a flight of whimsy the point is that one player stood head and shoulders above everyone else, striding the stage like a colossus, that player was Steven N'Zonzi. Most folk on here dismissed N'Zonzi as a fairweather type who used to turn up when he felt like it. The truth is, he revolutionised our playing style and took us to a new level. Before he came we could not keep possession of the ball and we were struggling to find a way to survive in the Prem without Rory's long throws and Fuller's acts of brilliance. He improved players around him, Whelan looked a different footballer. Most influential player since Hudson, and if we ever get anyone anywhere near his calibre again we will be just fine. Pulis played a blinder on this, I know he was coming towards the end of contract at Blackburn, but we paid £3m for him according to wiki. I thought it was around £6m and thought the deal was good at that price. Did he ever win the Europa with Sevilla? Edit: Looks like he won at least one. Sevilla won it pretty regularly for a while during that sort of period!
|
|
|
Post by franklin on May 24, 2021 12:00:15 GMT
I'd have LMH back tomorrow not that he'd look at us nowadays though.
|
|
|
Post by kidcrewbob on May 24, 2021 12:10:48 GMT
Yeh 3 x 9th finishes, what the fuck happened ! Although I thought Hughes should have gone after the Bournemouth home defeat early October of that fateful season, with the jammy 1-0 away win at Watford the week after enabling them to wheel-out another "what's all the fuss about" statement - by the time the clowns upstairs actually DID something (knee-jerking following the disapointing yet meaningless FA cup defeat @ Coventry) it was too late with a new incumbent having no say in the Jan transfer window AND the damage already being done pretty much. Then up steps Paul Lambert......
I remember Sparky saying stuff like "yeh, but who else is going to come in" [thats going to be a marked improvement on him] and he was absolutely spot-on at that point in time - we should have stuck with him at least until the end of the season - it was arguably the most inept of exec decisions borne of sheer fuckwittery - and then they went on and compounded it with a whole sequence of ill-considered decisions over the next 3 seasons.....and here we are with another season of medicocrity looming .....
All in all, we truly killed the golden goose of solid, estabished Premier League status and pissed on it's grave......
|
|
|
Post by Gods on May 24, 2021 12:12:13 GMT
I remember us playing Everton between Christmas and New year at Goodison Park, a wonderful evocative football ground, the last great standing citadel of a bygone era, Everton in blue jerseys and white shorts and the Potters in the famous red and white stripes. We led 1-0 through a penalty which Bojan the wonder-waif had won and converted. Everton were trying to press forward for an equaliser in the gathering gloom and from nowhere there was the most beautiful snow storm under the floodlights. It was a scene to lift your heart. Before I get too carried away on a flight of whimsy the point is that one player stood head and shoulders above everyone else, striding the stage like a colossus, that player was Steven N'Zonzi. Most folk on here dismissed N'Zonzi as a fairweather type who used to turn up when he felt like it. The truth is, he revolutionised our playing style and took us to a new level. Before he came we could not keep possession of the ball and we were struggling to find a way to survive in the Prem without Rory's long throws and Fuller's acts of brilliance. He improved players around him, Whelan looked a different footballer. Most influential player since Hudson, and if we ever get anyone anywhere near his calibre again we will be just fine. The Zonz was the beating heart of the Hughes passing revolution! Long stride, able to nick the ball away from challenges and he just kept, recycling it and recycling it and recycling it...
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on May 24, 2021 12:22:54 GMT
If my memory serves me correctly, Wimmer was bought two and a half years after Huth left. It was Wollscheid who replaced Huth, and though he wasn't anywhere near the player Huth was, he didn't cost much and we weren't involved in relegation battles while he was playing for us. Wolly was actually a much better player than Wimmer, but still not close to Huth's ability to defend. Sending Huth away at the time they did still baffles me! Worst decision we have made apart from signing Wimmer for £15-17M!
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on May 24, 2021 12:26:36 GMT
Most folk on here dismissed N'Zonzi as a fairweather type who used to turn up when he felt like it. The truth is, he revolutionised our playing style and took us to a new level. Before he came we could not keep possession of the ball and we were struggling to find a way to survive in the Prem without Rory's long throws and Fuller's acts of brilliance. He improved players around him, Whelan looked a different footballer. Most influential player since Hudson, and if we ever get anyone anywhere near his calibre again we will be just fine. Pulis played a blinder on this, I know he was coming towards the end of contract at Blackburn, but we paid £3m for him according to wiki. I thought it was around £6m and thought the deal was good at that price. Did he ever win the Europa with Sevilla? Edit: Looks like he won at least one. Sevilla won it pretty regularly for a while during that sort of period! It was an inspired signing no doubt. He won the UEFA Cup once with Sevilla, and they were top of La Liga for a while when he won La Liga Player of the Month which is no mean feat in that division. It just didn't work out at Roma for him at a time when he could have been getting some regular starts for France. He's been at Rennes this season, they finished 6th in a strong league so not bad, but the feeling is, he was capable of achieving more.
|
|
|
Post by hardcastle on May 24, 2021 12:35:28 GMT
Certainly the best midfielder we had in the ten years we had in the Prem. Rory and Glen were good, don't get me wrong, but NZ was genuinely class.
Top recruitment from TP but it was only under Hughes that we really saw how good he was. Star man in those fabulous successive 3-0 and 6-1 wins against Spurs and Liverpool.
Shame he had to bang in a transfer request at the end of each season.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 13:44:45 GMT
Like Burnley and Brighton , Leeds are organised and stick to the plan .
Impossible not to admire Dysche ,Potter and Biesla , for getting their team to stick to the plan and punch above their weight , every week , at Premier league level .
All 3 are brilliant .
|
|
|
Post by phileetin on May 24, 2021 15:49:25 GMT
i think leeds have been a real breath of fresh air to watch in the prem this year
|
|
|
Post by clarkeda on May 24, 2021 17:55:30 GMT
Not defending the shitshow of his last year or so but one area where Hughes really was unlucky/working with the wrong people above him were the signings we narrowly missed out - Harry Maguire, Andy Robertson and Adama Traore were among those he wanted at various times. Could have been a very different story for him and us if we’d got one or two of those over the line. I might be making it up but I’m sure we nearly signed Latauro Martinez
|
|
|
Post by Cns on May 24, 2021 18:04:49 GMT
They've made that Karen carney look a right fool.
|
|
|
Post by Bagwash on May 24, 2021 20:11:11 GMT
i think leeds have been a real breath of fresh air to watch in the prem this year Certainly have matey and although over the years I have disliked Leeds enormously, this season I have warmed to them. Its mainly down to there unorthodox manager and the attack minded tactics they employ. Would rather watch Leeds than possession obsessed Man City.Chelsea,Man Utd any day of the week.
|
|
|
Post by fortressbritannia on May 24, 2021 20:38:31 GMT
Hughes did what he was initially brought into do, which was build upon the success and foundations laid by TP. There was always a reliance on the foundations already there (Butland, Shawcross, Whelan, Nzonzi, Adam, Crouch, Walters) I remember Butland early on in one season playing out of his skin to keep us in games and the collective sigh of relief when Shawcrossreturned from injury to steady the ship that was letting in goals for fun at one point. Even going back to the season before we got relegated when we finished 13th,we only finished that high because of Joe Allen's breif success in the no. 10 role.
I'll never forget those 3 great seasons and dreams of Europe but I'll never forget how the club sat there Patti g themselves on the backs while the foundations rotted.
|
|
|
Post by a on May 25, 2021 19:58:18 GMT
Like Burnley and Brighton , Leeds are organised and stick to the plan . Impossible not to admire Dysche ,Potter and Biesla , for getting their team to stick to the plan and punch above their weight , every week , at Premier league level . All 3 are brilliant . Burnley clinging on like a limpet but have no budget.
|
|
|
Post by brinsleymaclagan on May 25, 2021 21:26:20 GMT
Let's see what happens on that front. We didn't stall at 9th. We did pretty well every season to finish there. Only the second time in our long history we finished 3 times in the top half consecutively. i don't call that stalling. You can't deny that we didn't climb above 9. So in terms of table position we stalled. Hughes wanted to take us higher. It was a mistake and we still haven't recovered. It was a mistake to try and take us higher?? Typical fucking “Little old Stoke” attitude! One thing that I really liked about Hughes when he arrived was that instead of Pulis’ “we have to manage expectations”, Hughes had the balls to raise our expectations and proved that you don’t have to play shit football to get results!
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on May 25, 2021 21:56:46 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United. Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1. While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to find it in our hearts to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized. Not a chance.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on May 25, 2021 22:21:48 GMT
So reading the end of season reviews Bielsa seems to be pretty much everyone's 'star of the season for having engineered a 9th place finish for the once mighty Leeds United. Mark 'Sparky' Hughes rattled off 3 of the f*ckers in a row for the once not quite so mighty Potters and yet was hounded out of town 18 months after the third one and is regarded my many as at best a figure of fun and at worst public enemy #1. While accepting it all went wrong under a tsunami of crazy signings it must now be possible to find it in our hearts to give the taciturn Welshman some credit for what he did here, mustn't it? I mean we were pretty good for some time under his stewardship, actually better than pretty good, not far off as good as you can be without going super-sized. Not a chance. No probably not, but still we were good, I mean properly good, and dare I say it almost cool, in a way we haven't been since the first coming of the king of the Kings Road, football genius Alan Hudson. The diamond of Begovic in goal, Ryan and Huth like a pair of jail keepers and the great Steven N'zonzi in front of them recycling the ball and recycling the ball. The raw power of the one man Tour de Force that is Marko Arnautovic, the blurring footspeed of Xherdan Shaqiri and Bojan the wonder-waif. I try not to dwell for too long on what we have lost, you could do yourself some serious harm.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on May 25, 2021 22:31:10 GMT
You can't deny that we didn't climb above 9. So in terms of table position we stalled. Hughes wanted to take us higher. It was a mistake and we still haven't recovered. It was a mistake to try and take us higher?? Typical fucking “Little old Stoke” attitude! One thing that I really liked about Hughes when he arrived was that instead of Pulis’ “we have to manage expectations”, Hughes had the balls to raise our expectations and proved that you don’t have to play shit football to get results! What were your expectations for the club in the EPL? Consistent Title challengers, Champions league entrants, Top six placings, Regular FA cup finalists etc How would you manage supporter expectations - V - realistic continual progress/EPL status? Would you prefer EPL or EFL status? Don't hold back
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 2:11:46 GMT
You can't deny that we didn't climb above 9. So in terms of table position we stalled. Hughes wanted to take us higher. It was a mistake and we still haven't recovered. It was a mistake to try and take us higher?? Typical fucking “Little old Stoke” attitude! One thing that I really liked about Hughes when he arrived was that instead of Pulis’ “we have to manage expectations”, Hughes had the balls to raise our expectations and proved that you don’t have to play shit football to get results! No. It was brave thinking on the dashboard. But he had made a really good team, then he broke it up and replaced good players with worse players. That's a recipe for disaster and we paid a high price.
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on May 26, 2021 5:14:40 GMT
Most folk on here dismissed N'Zonzi as a fairweather type who used to turn up when he felt like it. The truth is, he revolutionised our playing style and took us to a new level. Before he came we could not keep possession of the ball and we were struggling to find a way to survive in the Prem without Rory's long throws and Fuller's acts of brilliance. He improved players around him, Whelan looked a different footballer. Most influential player since Hudson, and if we ever get anyone anywhere near his calibre again we will be just fine. The Zonz was the beating heart of the Hughes passing revolution! Long stride, able to nick the ball away from challenges and he just kept, recycling it and recycling it and recycling it... I nicknamed him the Blue Bin 😉
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 26, 2021 6:31:55 GMT
It was a mistake to try and take us higher?? Typical fucking “Little old Stoke” attitude! One thing that I really liked about Hughes when he arrived was that instead of Pulis’ “we have to manage expectations”, Hughes had the balls to raise our expectations and proved that you don’t have to play shit football to get results! What were your expectations for the club in the EPL? Consistent Title challengers, Champions league entrants, Top six placings, Regular FA cup finalists etc How would you manage supporter expectations - V - realistic continual progress/EPL status? Would you prefer EPL or EFL status? Don't hold back 'Realistic, continual progress' was what had stalled under Pulis and what we then made under Hughes. It took a change of manager at the right time to make that progress once it became clear the incumbent wasn't going to deliver it. We could have kept that going by freshening it up again at the right time. Instead we waited too long until the rot had well and truly set in. Appoint the right manager in the summer of 2017 and there's a good chance we don't get relegated.
|
|