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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 5, 2021 18:38:22 GMT
He started out as a left winger. Ever likely he ended up at the Glen Hoddle coaching school for kids who couldn’t find a club then. I can't be arsed to check but I sincerely hope that the official name of Glen Hoddle's academy was 'The Glen Hoddle Coaching School For Kids Who Couldn't Find A Club'. 🤣
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2021 18:38:52 GMT
One of the centre halves, Grapey. Yeah, fair enough That would have been the move if one was going to be made earlier. You could see McKinlay and him having a good chat about a possible change, but they obviously decided not to pull the trigger on it. I'm still reluctant to be too critical. The margins are so tight and the spotlight wouldn't have been as bright if Danny Batth didn't do a Danny Batth. I don't think their change gave them control, just made it a more even stodgy mess of a game after (from his point of view) Rowett corrected his initial approach Yeah, the change didn’t so much get them playing as stop us playing.
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Post by themistocles on Apr 5, 2021 18:40:11 GMT
" none of the subs were effective "
But you'll bring Vokes on every game at 80 minutes won't you Michael..
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 5, 2021 18:40:51 GMT
I think bayern has said that on a number of occasions actually, and it was he I was referring to...... I assumed you were 🙂 I’ve evidently missed that, though I don’t think anyone on this particular thread is doing that? I agree that the manager is dealing with a shit show and a lot of the criticism he gets is harsh in what is going to be a long and potentially fruitful rebuilding job, but I do think there’s some folk (not you) who are hypersensitive to any criticism of the manager whatsoever. On the flip side if Batth had put his clearance out for a throw in like he should have and we then bundled a scrappy winner off the backside of Harry Souttar I wouldn't have expected people to say that it was a stroke of genius bring Sam Clucas on. Sometimes it is just individual errors and fine margins......
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 5, 2021 18:41:49 GMT
Seems like a similar pattern of blaming the manager for everything is emerging. We’ve gone from having a really shit team to an average one, that’s progress in itself. Give the man a break ffs We’ve improved on the Nathan team. We are however, worse under MON this season than we were under MON last season. We have a lower points per game ratio under MON this season than last. We are less entertaining too, because we had some 3, 4 and 5 goal wins. Is that an improvement or sign of progress? That's true. But Vokes, Allen, Clucas, McClean, and others are all getting old and going downhill fast. We have lost Campbell and Collins and deteriorated further without them. Fletcher is a useful signing but not going to get us promoted. Powell is a loose cannon, scoring regularly but massively squandering possession. MON has been in a financial headlock, only able to sign free transfers or second rate young players. We still have an entourage of useless loaned out players to get rid of, signed by previous managers. We won the last 2 matches, but we have not had a convincingly good performance all season. We just have to be grateful MON prevented a nailed on relegation last season, and realise we are on a long journey to getting rid of the dozens of past it players he inherited, making do with free signings, till the young players mature and the financial constraints are behind us. Next season could again be a waiting game, especially if we get a points deduction.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 5, 2021 18:43:24 GMT
You can’t say them changing it “won” them the game, but it certainly gave them more options and they got the wrong side of us a few times, however, there can’t be many more toothless displays that have yielded two goals. It wasn’t a genius move by Rowett and it was still fairly even, although dire, in the second half.
I don’t think we lacked effort and I thought we looked tired. MON did make subs, but not one of the four did remotely well when introduced.
It’s one of those games you get when you’re at this level, especially with a weakened and tried squad. It’s not one to lose your shit over, although I can see why MON is pissed off. He must be livid we’ve somehow lost it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2021 18:45:37 GMT
He’s played on the left wing for us 😂😂😂😂😂 When? I can’t remember what I did yesterday nevermind who it was against but he definitely has. And as someone else had said he started there. It would negate most of the issues he has re going missing. I wasn’t impressed with the first half at all and we needed more attacking threat on.
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 5, 2021 18:45:40 GMT
He played against us for Hull in the PL and played left wing. He was a winger at Mansfield and also played left wing a lot at Chesterfield, where he also played left back a fair bit too. He only really switched to central midfield in his latter days at Hull and Swansea... Ok I bow to your superior knowledge of the numerous times he’s played as a winger in league 2. I’ve got no recollection whatsoever of Clucas playing as a left winger against us in the Premier League or, in fact, of him ever playing left wing for us. He actually started out as a striker at Leicester before they released him for being too small. Anything else you need help with? 🤣
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2021 18:47:29 GMT
Ok I bow to your superior knowledge of the numerous times he’s played as a winger in league 2. I’ve got no recollection whatsoever of Clucas playing as a left winger against us in the Premier League or, in fact, of him ever playing left wing for us. He actually started out as a striker at Leicester before they released him for being too small. Anything else you need help with? 🤣 Mick doesn’t think formations affect games
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 5, 2021 18:49:03 GMT
He actually started out as a striker at Leicester before they released him for being too small. Anything else you need help with? 🤣 Mick doesn’t think formations affect games They certainly weren’t responsible for Danny Batth defending like a clown.....
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Post by karl on Apr 5, 2021 18:51:14 GMT
Mick doesn’t think formations affect games They certainly weren’t responsible for Danny Batth defending like a clown..... Sure he did the same thing earlier in the season before getting dropped.
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Post by a on Apr 5, 2021 18:51:57 GMT
Yea it’s his fault for the deadwood. You aren’t very clever are you, 😂 None of today’s squad are the deadwood though so you can’t be to clever yourself 🤔 Too clever* 😂 Stop looking through a straw and pick up a dictionary.
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Post by iglugluk on Apr 5, 2021 18:53:11 GMT
Did he really single Vokes out for praise? 🙂 Thats gross misconduct on its own 😂 Can only hope he's talking him up for a potential transfer?* *although keep bringing on a striker who cannot score seems a very odd way of achieving 'putting him in the shop window', I must say.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2021 18:56:02 GMT
He actually started out as a striker at Leicester before they released him for being too small. Anything else you need help with? 🤣 Mick doesn’t think formations affect games Mick doesn’t think the championship is an overly tactical league. I think tactics and formations become more important the higher up you go. International football, yes very important...Championship ale house nogger, virtually fuck all and it’s always been the case.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2021 18:57:36 GMT
Ok I bow to your superior knowledge of the numerous times he’s played as a winger in league 2. I’ve got no recollection whatsoever of Clucas playing as a left winger against us in the Premier League or, in fact, of him ever playing left wing for us. He actually started out as a striker at Leicester before they released him for being too small. Anything else you need help with? 🤣 Incredible knowledge, well done. The next time I need to know something about the life and times of Sam Clucas, I’ll be sure to let you know.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2021 19:00:15 GMT
Mick McCarthy might be good one as well😄 A 5-0 pasting by Sheffield Wednesday should make for an interesting interview Surely the managerial genius that is Mick “Pep” McCarthy couldn’t have overseen such a shit show?
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Post by robrigo on Apr 5, 2021 19:00:32 GMT
I’m no tactical guru, in fact I’ve never played for a team except when at school but it doesn’t take a genius to work out that we are a below average side. There are many factors that are well documented that have contributed to our demise and Michael is currently one of them. His hands have been tied in the transfer market of course and he performed terrifically last season in keeping us up. However, his recruitment leaves a lot to be desired despite the restrictions of FFP. His game management appears to be average to middling and his senior players keep letting him down like today.
We are miles off mounting any type of challenge yet. And will be for sometime. We have to start getting real leaders in the building again but that’s easier said than done.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 5, 2021 19:16:04 GMT
It could be a lot worse
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2021 19:17:15 GMT
Mick doesn’t think formations affect games Mick doesn’t think the championship is an overly tactical league. I think tactics and formations become more important the higher up you go. International football, yes very important...Championship ale house nogger, virtually fuck all and it’s always been the case. That really hasn’t been true of the Championship for a fair old while.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2021 19:20:07 GMT
Mick doesn’t think the championship is an overly tactical league. I think tactics and formations become more important the higher up you go. International football, yes very important...Championship ale house nogger, virtually fuck all and it’s always been the case. That really hasn’t been true of the Championship for a fair old while. I completely disagree. Essentially it’s been the same as it was in 1985. Organisation, hard work, and a cutting edge up front is what’s required to be successful at this level and it’s always been thus.
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Post by hardcastle on Apr 5, 2021 19:22:08 GMT
I don’t have a problem with that at all if it’s done sparingly and with recognition of one’s own failings as well. When you’re blaming the players after a game in which you’ve been tactically outdone by a remedial though I’m not sure it’s a great look. Most managers recognise their own failings I'm sure, but apart from once in a blue moon rarely come out and say "I got it wrong" or "I could have done better". O'Neill is no different. And as stated previously I believe saying he was "tactically outdone" is massively stretching it, "a drab second half was turned on its head by a woeful piece of defending" is more accurate....... That's a fair summary.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 5, 2021 19:22:53 GMT
It would be fair if you quoted precisely what he said about Vokes...not 1/2 of what was said I quite clearly said in my post that he mentioned the other players, the only bit I omitted was "because he came on later" which adds nothing to the comment It’s always best to quote something fully and let others decide.....thank you
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 5, 2021 19:24:25 GMT
I quite clearly said in my post that he mentioned the other players, the only bit I omitted was "because he came on later" which adds nothing to the comment It’s always best to quote something fully and let others decide.....thank you Sorry sir 🙄
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2021 19:25:20 GMT
That really hasn’t been true of the Championship for a fair old while. I completely disagree. Essentially it’s been the same as it was in 1985. Organisation, hard work, and a cutting edge up front. Tactics have always played a part in that though - giving consideration to the system that best suits the players you’ve got and signing the players who suit your system, making in-game tweaks depending on the opposition. Even in the promotion season, Pulis had a favoured system and game plan and players who knew their job to the letter. Since then the league has got more sophisticated and tactical. Precious few teams kick and rush their way to promotion these days. Wilder’s Sheffield United took the division completely by surprise with their innovative system. Norwich were/are an excellent technical side with a very tactically astute coach. None of the current top six are kick and rush merchants, and Barnsley again are punching way above their weight with a tactically astute manager and pressing game.
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Post by fourfourtwo on Apr 5, 2021 19:28:33 GMT
James McLean just post a photo of him training and the words ‘Attitude reflects leadership’.
Dig at MON?
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2021 19:32:15 GMT
I completely disagree. Essentially it’s been the same as it was in 1985. Organisation, hard work, and a cutting edge up front. Tactics have always played a part in that though - giving consideration to the system that best suits the players you’ve got and signing the players who suit your system, making in-game tweaks depending on the opposition. Even in the promotion season, Pulis had a favoured system and game plan and players who knew their job to the letter. Since then the league has got more sophisticated and tactical. Precious few teams kick and rush their way to promotion these days. Wilder’s Sheffield United took the division completely by surprise with their innovative system. Norwich were/are an excellent technical side with a very tactically astute coach. None of the current top six are kick and rush merchants, and Barnsley again are punching way above their weight with a tactically astute manager and pressing game. I don’t agree with any of that: When we went up we were organised but tactically prehistoric, and I don’t actually see Barnsley being any better. Our game with them last month was one of the worst games of football I’ve ever seen, and I genuinely don’t exaggerate when I say that. They’ve done brilliantly this year, but their methods are agricultural and it wouldn’t surprise me if they struggle again next season. Norwich aren’t top of the league because Farke is some kind of Rinus Michels reincarnate. They’ve won the league at a canter due to having a front three that are head and shoulders above and a solid defence. Sorry, but you are trying to add a layer of sophistication to a pretty brutal league that simply doesn’t exist.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2021 19:33:38 GMT
Are you talking about the subs? Surely 3 of the biggest earners at the club should be expected to change the game? Apart from Rabbi I can't see why any of those subs should get upset by the home truths. Perhaps the fact that our best player has recently said he's not bothered if he doesn't play in the Premier again says something about desire. It's all well and good saying family and happiness come first but at Stoke he has the chance to do both but where was his passion today? MON is right. Too many players go through the motions without showing any real desire or anger with themselves or team mates. Campbell has never played in the Prem has he? Campbell made his debut on 24 February 2018 in a 1–1 draw at Leicester City in the Premier League.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 5, 2021 19:36:49 GMT
James McLean just post a photo of him training and the words ‘Attitude reflects leadership’. Dig at MON? m The danger of throwing players under the bus in public is they have so many opportunities to respond in public .
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 5, 2021 19:38:21 GMT
James McLean just post a photo of him training and the words ‘Attitude reflects leadership’. Dig at MON? Absolutely a dig. Oh dear, it looks like the end game has started, but who for?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 5, 2021 19:39:32 GMT
Tactics have always played a part in that though - giving consideration to the system that best suits the players you’ve got and signing the players who suit your system, making in-game tweaks depending on the opposition. Even in the promotion season, Pulis had a favoured system and game plan and players who knew their job to the letter. Since then the league has got more sophisticated and tactical. Precious few teams kick and rush their way to promotion these days. Wilder’s Sheffield United took the division completely by surprise with their innovative system. Norwich were/are an excellent technical side with a very tactically astute coach. None of the current top six are kick and rush merchants, and Barnsley again are punching way above their weight with a tactically astute manager and pressing game. I don’t agree with any of that: When we went up we were organised but tactically prehistoric, and I don’t actually see Barnsley being any better. Our game with them last month was one of the worst games of football I’ve ever seen, and I genuinely don’t exaggerate when I say that. They’ve done brilliantly this year, but their methods are agricultural and it wouldn’t surprise me if they struggle again next season. Norwich aren’t top of the league because Farke is some kind of Rinus Michels reincarnate. They’ve won the league at a canter due to having a front three that are head and shoulders above and a solid defence. Sorry, but you are trying to add a layer of sophistication to a pretty brutal league that simply doesn’t exist. Tell me, how did Norwich get that team who are ‘head and shoulders above’? They did it on a budget with astute scouting ensuring they got in players who fit how they wanted to play. Barnsley have played other games you know, not sure you can write them off entirely based on their game against us. They have again got a system that works for them and are punching hugely above their weight as a result. You seem to think ‘tactics’ is just a snobby term applied only to chin stroking sophisitcates - in reality it’s just finding the right system to get the best out of the players you’ve got and when necessary making the tweaks and changes in-game to nullify the opposition or exploit a weakness. Pulis wasn’t aesthetically pleasing but how he set us up was as important getting the players motivating and drilling them on set pieces.
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