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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:08:01 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2021 16:08:01 GMT
It’s batshit mental and shows a total lack of understanding football. Which is about right. No, fans relate to experience, players and managers alike which is why less than 10% would select mark hughes and even they would be under the influence Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t select either and think both are ridiculous ideas.
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:12:26 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 16:12:26 GMT
No, fans relate to experience, players and managers alike which is why less than 10% would select mark hughes and even they would be under the influence Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t select either and think both are ridiculous ideas. Ask the audience is a sure fire winner, even on who wants to be a millionaire. If you had two ex girlfriends and one helped you to build your empire from the bones to top level who you then binned because you thought you could do better then the next woman was a bit more attractive come in and spent it all and put you in the gutter who would you want for your future rebuild? A) Pulis Or B) Pulis It's simple logic
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:13:18 GMT
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Post by logdog on May 29, 2021 16:13:18 GMT
Ah… The biggest expert of them all! The fact that he kept us up was a minor miracle in itself. Last season was going fine considering he had a training ground half full of poisonous, money grabbing mercenaries who didn’t want anything to do with our club. The football was attritional at times, but we were a penalty kick away from going to the top of the league. Since then the injuries have been never ending. You can say he’s signed plenty of players, but he’s had to bodge his way through with free transfers & what is in today’s world, small fees for players who, although have potential, are pretty rough around the edges. He’s been given no real money to spend, whilst constantly giving our young players the chance to show their worth. Whilst the second half of the season has been a long, hard slog and goals for have been at a premium, we at least have some fight & no longer get rolled over on a regular basis. He has steadied the ship during extremely choppy waters & in the long run we will only continue to progress with this manager. It was but then last season was horrific. He’s very lucky to be in the job still after it. Some of the entertainment on offer was pretty horrific, I’ll give you that. The injury list & everything else he had to contend with was pretty horrific too. Problem was, the great escape & the position we got ourselves into this season masked a lot of the deficiencies in the squad. Mid table is probably as good as it gets with this lot. I honestly don’t think anyone (realistic) good do much better with the situation we are in.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2021 16:16:50 GMT
Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t select either and think both are ridiculous ideas. Ask the audience is a sure fire winner, even on who wants to be a millionaire. If you had two ex girlfriends and one helped you to build your empire from the bones to top level who you then binned because you thought you could do better then the next woman was a bit more attractive come in and spent it all and put you in the gutter who would you want for your future rebuild? A) Pulis Or B) Pulis It's simple logic Hughes was a much better manager for us. Both in the end deserved to be sacked. Neither should ever hold another job for us again.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 29, 2021 16:17:13 GMT
Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t select either and think both are ridiculous ideas. Ask the audience is a sure fire winner, even on who wants to be a millionaire. If you had two ex girlfriends and one helped you to build your empire from the bones to top level who you then binned because you thought you could do better then the next woman was a bit more attractive come in and spent it all and put you in the gutter who would you want for your future rebuild? A) Pulis Or B) Pulis It's simple logic I’m still not sure why it’s somehow a binary choice between two former managers?
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:22:26 GMT
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Post by logdog on May 29, 2021 16:22:26 GMT
Ah… The biggest expert of them all! The fact that he kept us up was a minor miracle in itself. Last season was going fine considering he had a training ground half full of poisonous, money grabbing mercenaries who didn’t want anything to do with our club. The football was attritional at times, but we were a penalty kick away from going to the top of the league. Since then the injuries have been never ending. You can say he’s signed plenty of players, but he’s had to bodge his way through with free transfers & what is in today’s world, small fees for players who, although have potential, are pretty rough around the edges. He’s been given no real money to spend, whilst constantly giving our young players the chance to show their worth. Whilst the second half of the season has been a long, hard slog and goals for have been at a premium, we at least have some fight & no longer get rolled over on a regular basis. He has steadied the ship during extremely choppy waters & in the long run we will only continue to progress with this manager. We’re going get worse u see this manager , he would have been sacked at most other clubs for the last six months results , he’s completely out of his depth I beg to differ. With what he’s had to deal with he’s done well to stabilise us. See the previous manager for what ‘completely out of his depth” looks like…
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:25:56 GMT
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Post by christhepotter on May 29, 2021 16:25:56 GMT
We’re going get worse u see this manager , he would have been sacked at most other clubs for the last six months results , he’s completely out of his depth I beg to differ. With what he’s had to deal with he’s done well to stabilise us. See the previous manager for what ‘completely out of his depth” looks like… That’s your choice , I think he’s shit tbh
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:26:39 GMT
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Post by logdog on May 29, 2021 16:26:39 GMT
I beg to differ. With what he’s had to deal with he’s done well to stabilise us. See the previous manager for what ‘completely out of his depth” looks like… That’s your choice , I think he’s shit tbh Game of opinions, mate…
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:51:48 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 16:51:48 GMT
Ask the audience is a sure fire winner, even on who wants to be a millionaire. If you had two ex girlfriends and one helped you to build your empire from the bones to top level who you then binned because you thought you could do better then the next woman was a bit more attractive come in and spent it all and put you in the gutter who would you want for your future rebuild? A) Pulis Or B) Pulis It's simple logic I’m still not sure why it’s somehow a binary choice between two former managers? My take is we are in last chance saloon before we are a decade or more to even sniffing at top level football. I'd take that chance on a proven success that has done it for us before, especially in championship transfers. A safe pair of hands. Who else do you go too?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 29, 2021 16:53:54 GMT
I’m still not sure why it’s somehow a binary choice between two former managers? My take is we are in last chance saloon before we are a decade or more to even sniffing at top level football. I'd take that chance on a proven success that has done it for us before, especially in championship transfers. Who else do you go too? Well you could always do your homework, see who the up and coming names are who have some experience in that role and have a growing reputation and appoint them? Again, by your logic Holloway would be a better appointment as he ‘is a proven success’ with more promotions to his name.
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 16:55:59 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 16:55:59 GMT
My take is we are in last chance saloon before we are a decade or more to even sniffing at top level football. I'd take that chance on a proven success that has done it for us before, especially in championship transfers. Who else do you go too? Well you could always do your homework, see who the up and coming names are who have some experience in that role and have a growing reputation and appoint them? Again, by your logic Holloway would be a better appointment as he ‘is a proven success’ with more promotions to his name. Holloway isn't a better appointment though is he, he quit a job when the heat was on admitting he couldn't do anything. He never established anyone in the top flight, he went gung ho for a season and then was found out, he's hardly a man with a plan imo
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 29, 2021 17:03:37 GMT
Well you could always do your homework, see who the up and coming names are who have some experience in that role and have a growing reputation and appoint them? Again, by your logic Holloway would be a better appointment as he ‘is a proven success’ with more promotions to his name. Holloway isn't a better appointment though is he, he quit a job when the heat was on admitting he couldn't do anything. He never established anyone in the top flight, he went hung ho for a season and them was found out, he's hardly a man with a plan imo His two promotions came after quitting at Plymouth, almost as if that isn’t relevant. Pulis flopped at Bristol City, it happens. Your whole argument has been wanting someone with the knowledge of how to get promoted, are you now saying that’s less important than establishing the club one it’s been promoted? Seems like putting the cart before the horse... I don’t want him either, I’m just pointing out how flawed the argument is.
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 17:07:49 GMT
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Post by march4 on May 29, 2021 17:07:49 GMT
Both Hughes and Pulis had their contracts terminated by Stoke, which suggests their abilities were seen as not up to scratch. Why would they now be seen as competent? particularly considering their lack of notable achievement since leaving the club. And within 12 months TP was voted the best manager in the country. It was a monumental mistake to get rid of him and the current crisis is a direct result of it.
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 17:08:56 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 17:08:56 GMT
Holloway isn't a better appointment though is he, he quit a job when the heat was on admitting he couldn't do anything. He never established anyone in the top flight, he went hung ho for a season and them was found out, he's hardly a man with a plan imo His two promotions came after quitting at Plymouth, almost as if that isn’t relevant. Pulis flopped at Bristol City, it happens. Your whole argument has been wanting someone with the knowledge of how to get promoted, are you now saying that’s less important than establishing the club one it’s been promoted? Seems like putting the cart before the horse... I don’t want him either, I’m just pointing out how flawed the argument is. No my argument is pulis is a known quantity that has produced the goods for us before and imo his transfer record especially in the Championship was very impressive, the sorts of players I class as 'stoke players', fitness was massive which he took very seriously by running up Austrian mountains, taking the players on team bonding exercises like the day at the marines, always keeping them aware of how fortunate and privileged they are to be professional footballers. Took no shit off the players which kept them on their toes, Imo, the perfect aid to O'Neill
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 29, 2021 17:10:01 GMT
Both Hughes and Pulis had their contracts terminated by Stoke, which suggests their abilities were seen as not up to scratch. Why would they now be seen as competent? particularly considering their lack of notable achievement since leaving the club. And within 12 months TP was voted the best manager in the country. It was a monumental mistake to get rid of him and the current crisis is a direct result of it. You missed the bit where his team finished below ours, sure you were just getting to that...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 29, 2021 17:11:09 GMT
His two promotions came after quitting at Plymouth, almost as if that isn’t relevant. Pulis flopped at Bristol City, it happens. Your whole argument has been wanting someone with the knowledge of how to get promoted, are you now saying that’s less important than establishing the club one it’s been promoted? Seems like putting the cart before the horse... I don’t want him either, I’m just pointing out how flawed the argument is. No my argument is pulis is a known quantity that has produced the goods for us before and imo his transfer record especially in the Championship was very impressive, the sorts of players I class as 'stoke players', fitness was massive which he took very seriously by running up Austrian mountains, taking the players on team bonding exercises like the day at the marines, always keeping them aware of how fortunate and privileged they are to be professional footballers. Took no shit off the players which kept them on their toes, Imo, the perfect aid to O'Neill He isn’t a known quantity as a DoF and a DoF wouldn’t ordinarily have day to day involvement with the players to have them running up mountains etc...
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 17:11:57 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 17:11:57 GMT
No my argument is pulis is a known quantity that has produced the goods for us before and imo his transfer record especially in the Championship was very impressive, the sorts of players I class as 'stoke players', fitness was massive which he took very seriously by running up Austrian mountains, taking the players on team bonding exercises like the day at the marines, always keeping them aware of how fortunate and privileged they are to be professional footballers. Took no shit off the players which kept them on their toes, Imo, the perfect aid to O'Neill He isn’t a known quantity as a DoF and a DoF wouldn’t ordinarily have day to day involvement with the players to have them running up mountains etc... No but I'd be happier knowing pulis was behind the scenes and involved in player recruitment
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Post by nottsover60 on May 29, 2021 18:44:59 GMT
He isn’t a known quantity as a DoF and a DoF wouldn’t ordinarily have day to day involvement with the players to have them running up mountains etc... No but I'd be happier knowing pulis was behind the scenes and involved in player recruitment So you've forgotten the likes of Palacios, Tonge, Kitson, Sonko, Collins, Shea, Soares, Edu, Amdy Faye, Ness, Upson, Craddock, Woodgate and I'm sure there are others others?
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 18:51:00 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 18:51:00 GMT
No but I'd be happier knowing pulis was behind the scenes and involved in player recruitment So you've forgotten the likes of Palacios, Tonge, Kitson, Sonko, Collins, Shea, Soares, Edu, Amdy Faye, Ness, Upson, Craddock, Woodgate and I'm sure there are others others? Wimmer cost more than the lot of them put together and at least 6 of those above you mention were purchased as squad fillers
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Post by nottsover60 on May 29, 2021 19:04:39 GMT
So you've forgotten the likes of Palacios, Tonge, Kitson, Sonko, Collins, Shea, Soares, Edu, Amdy Faye, Ness, Upson, Craddock, Woodgate and I'm sure there are others others? Wimmer cost more than the lot of them put together and at least 6 of those above you mention were purchased as squad fillers So you can explain why we bought Palacios? Or why Tonge had his contract extended on Pulis's watch. Don't let's pretend all his transfers were a success. How much do you think for example Michael Owen cost us in signing on fees and wages? A player Pulis obviously bought with no intention of playing him. Had he had the money to spend that Hughes had and was buying at the time Hughes was I am sure he would have bought a Wimmer.
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87M Loss
May 29, 2021 19:07:13 GMT
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Post by yyy on May 29, 2021 19:07:13 GMT
Wimmer cost more than the lot of them put together and at least 6 of those above you mention were purchased as squad fillers So you can explain why we bought Palacios? Or why Tonge had his contract extended on Pulis's watch. Don't let's pretend all his transfers were a success. How much do you think for example Michael Owen cost us in signing on fees and wages? A player Pulis obviously bought with no intention of playing him. Had he had the money to spend that Hughes had and was buying at the time Hughes was I am sure he would have bought a Wimmer. Can you list me your favourite 15 players since 2005? Pulis specialised in signing decent centre halfs, cheap
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Post by onepara on May 29, 2021 19:59:42 GMT
In tonight's Sentinel Green 'Un, there is an accountant who has looked at the Clubs accounts, & is answering questions on how we would be affected by the FFP rules. He doesn't seem too bothered by what he sees.
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Post by chiswickpotter on May 30, 2021 12:38:17 GMT
In tonight's Sentinel Green 'Un, there is an accountant who has looked at the Clubs accounts, & is answering questions on how we would be affected by the FFP rules. He doesn't seem too bothered by what he sees. Basically saying we won’t go bust because of the owners but he is guessing like the rest of us on FFP. As afar as I can see, we lost £30m in 17/18, £15m in 18/19 and £50m after Covid in 19/20. EFL rules are to add 19/20 and 20/21 together and divide by two so our £19/20 loss half will be £25 million. That is a total of £70 million against an allowance of £61 million. But there will be costs we can claim back, in a best case maybe £15m in total so we probably have a loss of around £55m versus £61 allowed. So we could have lost £12m last season to be fine. It will all hinge on how much we received for loan players. If we get away with it, we should be starting to have more freedom for the 2022/23 season and maybe. A bit of wiggle room in the coming season if we could move a few high earners and maybe do one big sale. As an aside, the accounts show how much we spent on transfers. £67 million under Rowett and Jones in 2018/19 and £11 million under Jones/O’Neill in 2019/20 (Not sure whys this is so high, maybe it includes signing on payments as Smith and Lindsay were the high fees) yet we have a player value of only £20 million, we have managed to lose £60 million in player value in 2 years. 4years ago the value of our playing staff was £170 million - staggering numbers
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87M Loss
May 30, 2021 12:52:14 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on May 30, 2021 12:52:14 GMT
In tonight's Sentinel Green 'Un, there is an accountant who has looked at the Clubs accounts, & is answering questions on how we would be affected by the FFP rules. He doesn't seem too bothered by what he sees. Basically saying we won’t go bust because of the owners but he is guessing like the rest of us on FFP. As afar as I can see, we lost £30m in 17/18, £15m in 18/19 and £50m after Covid in 19/20. EFL rules are to add 19/20 and 20/21 together and divide by two so our £19/20 loss half will be £25 million. That is a total of £70 million against an allowance of £61 million. But there will be costs we can claim back, in a best case maybe £15m in total so we probably have a loss of around £55m versus £61 allowed. So we could have lost £12m last season to be fine. It will all hinge on how much we received for loan players. If we get away with it, we should be starting to have more freedom for the 2022/23 season and maybe. A bit of wiggle room in the coming season if we could move a few high earners and maybe do one big sale. As an aside, the accounts show how much we spent on transfers. £67 million under Rowett and Jones in 2018/19 and £11 million under Jones/O’Neill in 2019/20 (Not sure whys this is so high, maybe it includes signing on payments as Smith and Lindsay were the high fees) yet we have a player value of only £20 million, we have managed to lose £60 million in player value in 2 years. 4years ago the value of our playing staff was £170 million - staggering numbers An excellent summary except the value of the playing staff wasnt £170m, the cost was which is partly why we are in this mess now......
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87M Loss
May 30, 2021 14:56:58 GMT
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Post by questionable on May 30, 2021 14:56:58 GMT
Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t select either and think both are ridiculous ideas. Ask the audience is a sure fire winner, even on who wants to be a millionaire. If you had two ex girlfriends and one helped you to build your empire from the bones to top level who you then binned because you thought you could do better then the next woman was a bit more attractive come in and spent it all and put you in the gutter who would you want for your future rebuild? A) Pulis Or B) Pulis It's simple logic Errr Derr Paul Lambert of course
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Post by thevoid on May 30, 2021 17:47:18 GMT
I'm still trying to work out who 'YYY' used to post as.....
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2021 18:08:39 GMT
I'm still trying to work out who 'YYY' used to post as..... The Gift, among many others.
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Post by chiswickpotter on May 31, 2021 6:52:13 GMT
Basically saying we won’t go bust because of the owners but he is guessing like the rest of us on FFP. As afar as I can see, we lost £30m in 17/18, £15m in 18/19 and £50m after Covid in 19/20. EFL rules are to add 19/20 and 20/21 together and divide by two so our £19/20 loss half will be £25 million. That is a total of £70 million against an allowance of £61 million. But there will be costs we can claim back, in a best case maybe £15m in total so we probably have a loss of around £55m versus £61 allowed. So we could have lost £12m last season to be fine. It will all hinge on how much we received for loan players. If we get away with it, we should be starting to have more freedom for the 2022/23 season and maybe. A bit of wiggle room in the coming season if we could move a few high earners and maybe do one big sale. As an aside, the accounts show how much we spent on transfers. £67 million under Rowett and Jones in 2018/19 and £11 million under Jones/O’Neill in 2019/20 (Not sure whys this is so high, maybe it includes signing on payments as Smith and Lindsay were the high fees) yet we have a player value of only £20 million, we have managed to lose £60 million in player value in 2 years. 4years ago the value of our playing staff was £170 million - staggering numbers An excellent summary except the value of the playing staff wasnt £170m, the cost was which is partly why we are in this mess now...... Yes that’s an excellent clarification
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 1, 2021 6:19:55 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 1, 2021 6:28:41 GMT
To put that level of finance into a football club and end up with three consecutive lower half Championship finishes, after three 9th place PL finishes is just staggering. When do they sit down and ask themselves some really tough questions about their ability to 'run' this football club? Surely they even recognise that employing a good DOF to run the football side of the business would pay for itself against that level of financial waste? What is a good DOF on financially? 1M a year? What if he can implement a recruitment strategy, coupled with a joined up managerial recruitment policy whereby similar managers are winched in and out that conform to a consistent playing style that runs through the Academy to the first team? Surely you'd dramatically reduce that 100M+ players wastage that I highlighted on the other thread? That straight away pays for itself surely? There can't be any other clubs in world football that have suffered our drop in league placings coupled with that level of financial input can there?
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