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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:15:36 GMT
I think there's way more evidence to suggest people are far more cautious than what some people want to believe. That poll result for the vaccine passports shows it clearly, there's overwhelming support for shit like that. It's not going to be as black and white as it all goes back to normal on the 21st. The government even said when they announced it that it wouldn't social distancing measures would end. It was a contrasting thing but they did. Those polls are just more propaganda and are not a true reflection. I don't know a single person that supports the vaccine passports, I also don't know a single person that took part in any polls, so go figure. If we don't return to normal this year, then we'll never return to normal. Like another poster has already touched on, the vaccination is the most we're ever going to get so if that isn't enough to return to normal, what is? I don't think they are and I do think from looking online that it represents a good majority of the people in this country. I think people agree with that but aren't necessarily ready to just stop what has been going on. I don't have much of an opinion on that tbh other than I think people that are wary need to be respected. I think vaccine passports domestically are a shit idea.
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 1, 2021 11:17:17 GMT
That's what the vaccine is for no? I think that's too simplistic. You can't just say to a season ticket holder of say 40 years (ie loyal and valued customer and lifeblood of the club) who would like to go back but is nervous "You've had your jab now either get on with it or fuck off you daft owd codger". Nor should you. Whilst that's a harsh way of putting it that's exactly what we have to do isn't or change the way we live forever? I can understand some will be nervous, so it might be as well to stay and wait till they feel is 100% safe which it may not ever be again, so it might well be one of those things that we accept as we move through life, every time we get in a car or plane we run the risk of crashing but we still do it.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 1, 2021 11:19:15 GMT
I think there's way more evidence to suggest people are far more cautious than what some people want to believe. That poll result for the vaccine passports shows it clearly, there's overwhelming support for shit like that. It's not going to be as black and white as it all goes back to normal on the 21st. The government even said when they announced it that it wouldn't social distancing measures would end. It was a contrasting thing but they did. Those polls are just more propaganda and are not a true reflection. I don't know a single person that supports the vaccine passports, I also don't know a single person that took part in any polls, so go figure. If we don't return to normal this year, then we'll never return to normal. Like another poster has already touched on, the vaccination is the most we're ever going to get so if that isn't enough to return to normal, what is? Which is presumably why the club is undertaking it's own survey. If there is a substantial constituency that is nervous about going back then it would be reckless to ignore it and make some allowances to encourage them back. It's a business and it's nothing without it's customers. So are you saying if you don't agree with the club's own survey you won't believe that either because it doesn't chime with what you and your mates want? What has happened in the past 12 months is just about unprecedented in living memory - people are bound to have different attitudes to risk associated with it - not least based on their own expriences. Don't get me wrong I want to be back to normal as soon as possible but if we need a period of adaption to get as many people back as we can - because that's what they have said they want - then that's a small price to pay rather than losing them completely.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 1, 2021 11:23:11 GMT
I think that's too simplistic. You can't just say to a season ticket holder of say 40 years (ie loyal and valued customer and lifeblood of the club) who would like to go back but is nervous "You've had your jab now either get on with it or fuck off you daft owd codger". Nor should you. Maybe you don't say it like that exactly but some people are nervous and some aren't. Those that aren't or accept the risks of everyday normality in the same way as they have always done should be able to fill stadiums, cinemas, theatres, concerts and festivals and save the hospitality and entertainment industry from oblivion. Those that feel nervous can stay safe, wherever it is that they feel safe and not curtail the quality of life for everyone else or cause businesses to go bust. I accept that there has to be some restraints until everyone has been offered a vaccine but thereafter it has to be normal life and normal risks. Bizarrely I think if there had been no vaccine discovered we'd be further ahead with returning to normal by now because we'd just have to get on with life! BM Depends how many are nervous and how many aren't. If a lot are nervous and they are customers I suggest you don't tell them to 'fuck off' and listen to them instead if you want a business. Hence - presumably - the survey.
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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 1, 2021 11:23:14 GMT
What gives you the impression that 'we won't just be able to pick up where we left off'? If the live music industry is planning for a full return of 'normal' gigs (i.e. no restrictions / full capacity both indoors and out) from 21st June then why would football and other sports be subject restrictive measures? Is there that much difference between twenty thousand people standing in a field and 20 thousand people sitting in a stadium? The critical factor is whether or not social distancing will still be required. If not, we can return to the old "normal". But if it is, then clubs will need to come up with a workable plan to avoid congestion at the turnstiles, in the concourse, toilets and for thousands to enter and exit the stands in an orderly manner. Same with the pathways from the stadium that sometimes come to a standstill due to the shear number of people leaving at the same time. The live music industry's reopening plans are entirely based on the complete removal of social distancing restrictions (as reopening with with reduced capacities etc in place is simply not financially viable and will be devastating for many venues). If social distancing restrictions are not mandated by the government for this industry post June 21st then it'd make no sense to impose them on the live sports sector. Indeed, as others have suggested, should individual clubs seek to implement their own restrictions after June 21st 'to make people feel safer' then they'd have to contend with a sizeable portion of their customer base simply staying away as they don't want to be subject to needless restrictions that are not in place in all other aspects of society.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:24:59 GMT
The critical factor is whether or not social distancing will still be required. If not, we can return to the old "normal". But if it is, then clubs will need to come up with a workable plan to avoid congestion at the turnstiles, in the concourse, toilets and for thousands to enter and exit the stands in an orderly manner. Same with the pathways from the stadium that sometimes come to a standstill due to the shear number of people leaving at the same time. The live music industry's reopening plans are entirely based on the complete removal of social distancing restrictions (as reopening with with reduced capacities etc in place is simply not financially viable and will be devastating for many venues). If social distancing restrictions are not mandated by the government for this industry post June 21st then it'd make no sense to impose them on the live sports sector. Indeed, as others have suggested, should individual clubs seek to implement their own restrictions after June 21st 'to make people feel safer' then they'd have to contend with a sizeable portion of their customer base simply staying away as they don't want to be subject to needless restrictions that are not in place in all other aspects of society. They're mad then because the government specifically said that social distancing wouldn't necesarily be gone then!
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Post by BristolMick on Apr 1, 2021 11:28:54 GMT
Maybe you don't say it like that exactly but some people are nervous and some aren't. Those that aren't or accept the risks of everyday normality in the same way as they have always done should be able to fill stadiums, cinemas, theatres, concerts and festivals and save the hospitality and entertainment industry from oblivion. Those that feel nervous can stay safe, wherever it is that they feel safe and not curtail the quality of life for everyone else or cause businesses to go bust. I accept that there has to be some restraints until everyone has been offered a vaccine but thereafter it has to be normal life and normal risks. Bizarrely I think if there had been no vaccine discovered we'd be further ahead with returning to normal by now because we'd just have to get on with life! BM Depends how many are nervous and how many aren't. If a lot are nervous and they are customers I suggest you don't tell them to 'fuck off' and listen to them instead if you want a business. Hence - presumably - the survey. Ok, so if the survey shows its only a minority who are nervous what then? What if pandering to such a minority even if its a big minority would cause people who have also been long term loyal supporters but don't want allotted arrival times, zero catering and having to suck cloth every time something exciting happens to 'fuck off? BM
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:31:32 GMT
Depends how many are nervous and how many aren't. If a lot are nervous and they are customers I suggest you don't tell them to 'fuck off' and listen to them instead if you want a business. Hence - presumably - the survey. Ok, so if the survey shows its only a minority who are nervous what then? What if pandering to such a minority even if its a big minority would cause people who have also been long term loyal supporters but don't want allotted arrival times, zero catering and having to suck cloth every time something exciting happens to 'fuck off? BM I don't get why people for a month or two can't just be patient and we can just think about others maybe?
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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 1, 2021 11:32:10 GMT
The live music industry's reopening plans are entirely based on the complete removal of social distancing restrictions (as reopening with with reduced capacities etc in place is simply not financially viable and will be devastating for many venues). If social distancing restrictions are not mandated by the government for this industry post June 21st then it'd make no sense to impose them on the live sports sector. Indeed, as others have suggested, should individual clubs seek to implement their own restrictions after June 21st 'to make people feel safer' then they'd have to contend with a sizeable portion of their customer base simply staying away as they don't want to be subject to needless restrictions that are not in place in all other aspects of society. They're mad then because the government specifically said that social distancing wouldn't necesarily be gone then! This is from DCMS (i.e. the government itself)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:34:00 GMT
They're mad then because the government specifically said that social distancing wouldn't necesarily be gone then! This is from DCMS (i.e. the government itself) That'll be fun then! I think they'll keep social distancing and masks past 21st June. The way they worded it contradicted the whole 21st date thing.
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 1, 2021 11:34:11 GMT
The live music industry's reopening plans are entirely based on the complete removal of social distancing restrictions (as reopening with with reduced capacities etc in place is simply not financially viable and will be devastating for many venues). If social distancing restrictions are not mandated by the government for this industry post June 21st then it'd make no sense to impose them on the live sports sector. Indeed, as others have suggested, should individual clubs seek to implement their own restrictions after June 21st 'to make people feel safer' then they'd have to contend with a sizeable portion of their customer base simply staying away as they don't want to be subject to needless restrictions that are not in place in all other aspects of society. They're mad then because the government specifically said that social distancing wouldn't necesarily be gone then! I think the government are being a bit clever bayern they state that covid laws will remain in place for another 6 months(I think) just in case we have another spike and they need to curfew again, all the stages moving back to normality have the line if things are going to plan.
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Post by BristolMick on Apr 1, 2021 11:34:19 GMT
Ok, so if the survey shows its only a minority who are nervous what then? What if pandering to such a minority even if its a big minority would cause people who have also been long term loyal supporters but don't want allotted arrival times, zero catering and having to suck cloth every time something exciting happens to 'fuck off? BM I don't get why people for a month or two can't just be patient and we can just think about others maybe? I am not talking about NOW Bayern, but in 4 months time when the new season starts. BM
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 1, 2021 11:36:00 GMT
Depends how many are nervous and how many aren't. If a lot are nervous and they are customers I suggest you don't tell them to 'fuck off' and listen to them instead if you want a business. Hence - presumably - the survey. Ok, so if the survey shows its only a minority who are nervous what then? What if pandering to such a minority even if its a big minority would cause people who have also been long term loyal supporters but don't want allotted arrival times, zero catering and having to suck cloth every time something exciting happens to 'fuck off? BM Loving the concern for fellow Stokies there mate. Your way or no way is it? Well as one of the questions was regarding would you be prepared to move seats perhaps the answer could be different arrangements in different stands. As I've said in a previous thread I'm as anxious as anyone to get back to normal but I don't think we can ignore other people's reasonable reticence where it exists. Are we a club or not?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:36:58 GMT
They're mad then because the government specifically said that social distancing wouldn't necesarily be gone then! I think the government are being a bit clever bayern they state that covid laws will remain in place for another 6 months(I think) just in case we have another spike and they need to curfew again, all the stages moving back to normality have the line if things are going to plan. I think that is the case with the October date for that. But when they announced the roadmap thing, there was a caveat that aspects of social distancing would still be in play. It was totally at odds with the whole reopening thing on the 21st. Now who knows what they will do, they're useless. But even that was a muddle and I can see it not being as clear cut as people would like.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:39:48 GMT
I don't get why people for a month or two can't just be patient and we can just think about others maybe? I am not talking about NOW Bayern, but in 4 months time when the new season starts. BM I know and I still think people will want months easing back in. And tbh if that's people want then I'd happily help them with that. For me I think I'd probably miss the first game back anyway because I just wouldn't trust people to respect my boundaries. Then I'd go after that when people have calmed down. People shouldn't have to worry (it's not a worry for me, I just don't want to punch anyone and be banned) about that.
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 1, 2021 11:42:43 GMT
I think the government are being a bit clever bayern they state that covid laws will remain in place for another 6 months(I think) just in case we have another spike and they need to curfew again, all the stages moving back to normality have the line if things are going to plan. I think that is the case with the October date for that. But when they announced the roadmap thing, there was a caveat that aspects of social distancing would still be in play. It was totally at odds with the whole reopening thing on the 21st. Now who knows what they will do, they're useless. But even that was a muddle and I can see it not being as clear cut as people would like. We have tickets for the England game on the 22cnd and UEFA are making noises about not letting in the full capacity and they get the final say and not the government from what I read so some venues may well make their rules.
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 1, 2021 11:44:40 GMT
I think the government are being a bit clever bayern they state that covid laws will remain in place for another 6 months(I think) just in case we have another spike and they need to curfew again, all the stages moving back to normality have the line if things are going to plan. I think that is the case with the October date for that. But when they announced the roadmap thing, there was a caveat that aspects of social distancing would still be in play. It was totally at odds with the whole reopening thing on the 21st. Now who knows what they will do, they're useless. But even that was a muddle and I can see it not being as clear cut as people would like. It's ok, I suppose I can wait for the 2nd or 3rd game of the season to come and give you a big kiss
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Post by BristolMick on Apr 1, 2021 11:47:10 GMT
Ok, so if the survey shows its only a minority who are nervous what then? What if pandering to such a minority even if its a big minority would cause people who have also been long term loyal supporters but don't want allotted arrival times, zero catering and having to suck cloth every time something exciting happens to 'fuck off? BM Loving the concern for fellow Stokies there mate. Your way or no way is it? Well as one of the questions was regarding would you be prepared to move seats perhaps the answer could be different arrangements in different stands. As I've said in a previous thread I'm as anxious as anyone to get back to normal but I don't think we can ignore other people's reasonable reticence where it exists. Are we a club or not? Maybe different arrangements in different stands is an idea. Are the people who will want restrictions before they attend saying "its their way or no way" also selfish? Or is it just those of us who don't want them? If over caution prevails then its those that are over cautious, and the restrictions that they would insist upon to deem themselves safe, that will prevent fellow supporters from attending because of a severely restricted capacity. Who is being selfish? BM
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 11:50:13 GMT
I think that is the case with the October date for that. But when they announced the roadmap thing, there was a caveat that aspects of social distancing would still be in play. It was totally at odds with the whole reopening thing on the 21st. Now who knows what they will do, they're useless. But even that was a muddle and I can see it not being as clear cut as people would like. It's ok, I suppose I can wait for the 2nd or 3rd game of the season to come and give you a big kiss Hahaha, I never liked contact really before all this apart from at games in a mental and I think tbh if I went to a game tomorrow and there was that moment I would join in. Like the 21st, fuck going out then and again not because of fear or any of that shit. I just can't be arsed with people at the best of times
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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 1, 2021 11:56:05 GMT
I am not talking about NOW Bayern, but in 4 months time when the new season starts. BM I know and I still think people will want months easing back in. And tbh if that's people want then I'd happily help them with that. For me I think I'd probably miss the first game back anyway because I just wouldn't trust people to respect my boundaries. Then I'd go after that when people have calmed down. People shouldn't have to worry (it's not a worry for me, I just don't want to punch anyone and be banned) about that. If there's restrictions in place implemented by the club when not mandated by the government then I'll not attend until they're completely removed. If it comes down to a choice between arriving hours early to sit in a sparsely populated stadium with no atmosphere and enduring regimented, sterile experience or sitting at home watching on a stream for an experience equally devoid of atmosphere then I'll choose the latter as at least I'll be in the comfort of my own living room and not being marshalled by officious hi-vis clad safety Nazis. I'd expect quite a lot of people might do the same too.
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 1, 2021 11:56:53 GMT
I know and I still think people will want months easing back in. And tbh if that's people want then I'd happily help them with that. For me I think I'd probably miss the first game back anyway because I just wouldn't trust people to respect my boundaries. Then I'd go after that when people have calmed down. People shouldn't have to worry (it's not a worry for me, I just don't want to punch anyone and be banned) about that. If there's restrictions in place implemented by the club when not mandated by the government then I'll not attend until they're completely removed. If it comes down to a choice between arriving hours early to sit in a sparsely populated stadium with no atmosphere and enduring regimented, sterile experience or sitting at home watching on a stream for an experience equally devoid of atmosphere then I'll choose the latter as at least I'll be in the comfort of my own living room and not being marshalled by officious hi-vis clad safety Nazis. I'd expect quite a lot of people might do the same too. Or in the pub, sat with your mates.
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Post by Scouse on Apr 1, 2021 11:57:45 GMT
Realistically football , and our club has a number of issues ..and it’s why they need to get things right
Another season of stop , start unclear messaging could see many walk away from the game ( loyal and casual ) some of them potentially for good
They have the problem that crowds tend to turn up enmass inside 15 minutes before kick off , their records will give them precise timings at each turnstile , and each supporter at every game ..you can even check your own details
They have the problem that fans leave enmass at the end
They have the problem that grounds are neither wholly in or out of doors , especially dependant on where you sit in the ground , and have concourses and tight enclosed toilets
They have the problem that as many seats as possible are crammed into the smallest possible space
They have the problem that concourses often meet only minimal legal safety sizes and often attract uncrolled behaviour
They have the problem of inadequate toilet facilities , especially for female supporters , especially at peak times
They have the problem that toilet space is often abused for illegal activity ..smoking and drug taking
Thry have the problem of catering capacity being too small for demand at peak times
All the above and more are of concern to many supporters , but they put up with them in ‘ normal ‘ times .. they may well be less inclined to accept those conditions and the yobbish behaviour of a small minority in the future that further presssures those issues
if you think many having seen the behaviour of those in the parks in the last few days , can’t imagine similar chaotic scenes at football on its return , unless reassured and situations now managed when clubs have historically turned a blind eye and waited for the next disaster to happen then I’d think again
Football needs to return in 21/22 , but it also needs to show it hasn’t spent the last 18 months with its head up its arse , and instead has been plannng for fans return for that period , not simply at the last minute or waiting to see what minimum conditions government imposes on it ..imposed measures will be because historically they’ve sat idle
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Post by Squeekster on Apr 1, 2021 11:59:23 GMT
I know and I still think people will want months easing back in. And tbh if that's people want then I'd happily help them with that. For me I think I'd probably miss the first game back anyway because I just wouldn't trust people to respect my boundaries. Then I'd go after that when people have calmed down. People shouldn't have to worry (it's not a worry for me, I just don't want to punch anyone and be banned) about that. If there's restrictions in place implemented by the club when not mandated by the government then I'll not attend until they're completely removed. If it comes down to a choice between arriving hours early to sit in a sparsely populated stadium with no atmosphere and enduring regimented, sterile experience or sitting at home watching on a stream for an experience equally devoid of atmosphere then I'll choose the latter as at least I'll be in the comfort of my own living room and not being marshalled by officious hi-vis clad safety Nazis. I'd expect quite a lot of people might do the same too. At least you will be able to have friends round to watch with you and create your own atmosphere but don't tell anyone.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2021 12:08:43 GMT
I know and I still think people will want months easing back in. And tbh if that's people want then I'd happily help them with that. For me I think I'd probably miss the first game back anyway because I just wouldn't trust people to respect my boundaries. Then I'd go after that when people have calmed down. People shouldn't have to worry (it's not a worry for me, I just don't want to punch anyone and be banned) about that. If there's restrictions in place implemented by the club when not mandated by the government then I'll not attend until they're completely removed. If it comes down to a choice between arriving hours early to sit in a sparsely populated stadium with no atmosphere and enduring regimented, sterile experience or sitting at home watching on a stream for an experience equally devoid of atmosphere then I'll choose the latter as at least I'll be in the comfort of my own living room and not being marshalled by officious hi-vis clad safety Nazis. I'd expect quite a lot of people might do the same too. The hours early thing I'm with you, I get there usually at 3. I couldn't be arsed with that. Wearing a mask in the stadium wouldn't bother me tbh. And tbh I hope it's back to full capacity by then.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 1, 2021 12:42:58 GMT
Loving the concern for fellow Stokies there mate. Your way or no way is it? Well as one of the questions was regarding would you be prepared to move seats perhaps the answer could be different arrangements in different stands. As I've said in a previous thread I'm as anxious as anyone to get back to normal but I don't think we can ignore other people's reasonable reticence where it exists. Are we a club or not? Maybe different arrangements in different stands is an idea. Are the people who will want restrictions before they attend saying "its their way or no way" also selfish? Or is it just those of us who don't want them? If over caution prevails then its those that are over cautious, and the restrictions that they would insist upon to deem themselves safe, that will prevent fellow supporters from attending because of a severely restricted capacity. Who is being selfish? BM I'm not sure there is a massive contingent saying 'unless you put a load of restrictions in place I'm not going back' and ones that are reluctant seem to be quite passively resigned to the fact that it may be a while before they do go again. It seems to me that the loud voices seem to be the ones saying 'we should be back to normal straight away therwise football will just be shit'. If on the other hand people are asked what they think and if they are hesitant to return what would make them more comfortable (which was the way most if the questions seem to be worded) then they're perfectly entitled to respond honestly and if they do so in sufficient numbers then the club is right to do what it can to accommodate them as much as anyone else. Given that we rarely sell the place out these days it seems perfectly reasonable to me to have - say - two stands that are 'normal' and two socially distanced stands if that means we maximise the number of people who will return sooner rather than later. I'd personally opt for the 'normal' stand but I certainly wouldn't sneer at anyone sitting in one of the other stands or patronisingly assume that my 'matchday expierience" is somehow superior to theirs because we all experiemce things differntly.
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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 1, 2021 12:51:46 GMT
They could put all the cellar dwellers in one stand, all socially distanced and masked up like gimps (staggered entry too with the first admittance scheduled for 8am).
The club could also get the sponsors of the chosen stand to agree to a name change for the duration of the initiative.
The Absolute Fanny Stand Sponsored by Tile Mountain might not fit on the name plate though.
😂
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 1, 2021 13:00:37 GMT
They could put all the cellar dwellers in one stand, all socially distanced and masked up like gimps (staggered entry too with the first admittance scheduled for 8am). The club could also get the sponsors of the chosen stand to agree to a name change for the duration of the initiative. The Absolute Fanny Stand Sponsored by Tile Mountain might not fit on the name plate though. 😂 Good idea. Perhaps we could put all those oxygen thieves with wheelchairs and crutches with them as well. Fuckers are always getting in my way when I'm making a dash after a game.
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 1, 2021 13:06:34 GMT
They could put all the cellar dwellers in one stand, all socially distanced and masked up like gimps (staggered entry too with the first admittance scheduled for 8am). The club could also get the sponsors of the chosen stand to agree to a name change for the duration of the initiative. The Absolute Fanny Stand Sponsored by Tile Mountain might not fit on the name plate though. 😂 Good idea. Perhaps we could put all those oxygen thieves with wheelchairs and crutches with them as well. Fuckers are always getting in my way when I'm making a dash after a game. Question, the one's that carry their own oxygen tanks are they still classed as oxygen thieves or just a fucking hinderance?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 1, 2021 13:12:10 GMT
Good idea. Perhaps we could put all those oxygen thieves with wheelchairs and crutches with them as well. Fuckers are always getting in my way when I'm making a dash after a game. Question, the one's that carry their own oxygen tanks are they still classed as oxygen thieves or just a fucking hinderance? Steady on. I was being ironic in response to 'Clams. I'm not developing the theme......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 1, 2021 13:12:12 GMT
The critical factor is whether or not social distancing will still be required. If not, we can return to the old "normal". But if it is, then clubs will need to come up with a workable plan to avoid congestion at the turnstiles, in the concourse, toilets and for thousands to enter and exit the stands in an orderly manner. Same with the pathways from the stadium that sometimes come to a standstill due to the shear number of people leaving at the same time. The live music industry's reopening plans are entirely based on the complete removal of social distancing restrictions (as reopening with with reduced capacities etc in place is simply not financially viable and will be devastating for many venues). If social distancing restrictions are not mandated by the government for this industry post June 21st then it'd make no sense to impose them on the live sports sector. Indeed, as others have suggested, should individual clubs seek to implement their own restrictions after June 21st 'to make people feel safer' then they'd have to contend with a sizeable portion of their customer base simply staying away as they don't want to be subject to needless restrictions that are not in place in all other aspects of society. Slipknot will just corner the market, their fans have been wearing masks voluntarily for years. 3 year world tour incoming.......
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