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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 13:27:51 GMT
Gregory has scored 2 goals already, which is 2 more than Vokes is likely to get and 1 more than Brown has or is likely to get. With a whopping 2 goals to his name, I'd say that is a race that Gregory has already won. Doesn't make him any more useful for us though because he's scored 2 goals from a combined total of 1.5 yards for Derby. Vokes 1 League Cup 960mins. Brown 2 League Goals 1 League Cup 2115 mins Lee Gregory 3 League goals 967 mins
No stats for distance from goals but I can't see why that makes any real difference tbf.
You said over the same period of time so surely that means the loan spell. By your reckoning, what Gregory contributes for Derby is what he could have contributed here instead so the comparison is surely the period of time in which he's out on loan. Gregory has 2 goals already. Vokes has none. Brown has 1. Gregory has most likely won that race already but it still doesn't mean we should have kept him.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:28:47 GMT
Gregory has scored 2 goals already, which is 2 more than Vokes is likely to get and 1 more than Brown has or is likely to get. With a whopping 2 goals to his name, I'd say that is a race that Gregory has already won. Doesn't make him any more useful for us though because he's scored 2 goals from a combined total of 1.5 yards for Derby. It's not an entirely correct race. First of all Brown has got 100% more than you're willing to give him credit for. He's scored 2 league goals for us plus 1 in the caraboa. Moreover he's not a striker, whereas Gregory allegedly is. He's played a fair number of matches on the wing, and even as a rwb. Because of Campbell's injury and Vokes' inability he's been shoehorned into playing as if he was Campbell. He should still have scored more though. He has played 2115mins, the biggest issue for me is that the manager see's him as a striker option, he's a winger and he brought 3 more wingers in after signing him.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 13:31:09 GMT
It's not an entirely correct race. First of all Brown has got 100% more than you're willing to give him credit for. He's scored 2 league goals for us plus 1 in the caraboa. Moreover he's not a striker, whereas Gregory allegedly is. He's played a fair number of matches on the wing, and even as a rwb. Because of Campbell's injury and Vokes' inability he's been shoehorned into playing as if he was Campbell. He should still have scored more though. He has played 2115mins, the biggest issue for me is that the manager see's him as a striker option, he's a winger and he brought 3 more wingers in after signing him. Brown offers exactly what Gregory offers. Runs around a lot with very little quality and is unlikely to score a goal unless it's from a yard out and unmissable. Even with a 2m transfer fee (if that fee is true) Brown has probably cost us a lot less than Gregory and his near 30k per week wages.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:34:24 GMT
Vokes 1 League Cup 960mins. Brown 2 League Goals 1 League Cup 2115 mins Lee Gregory 3 League goals 967 mins
No stats for distance from goals but I can't see why that makes any real difference tbf.
You said over the same period of time so surely that means the loan spell. By your reckoning, what Gregory contributes for Derby is what he could have contributed here instead so the comparison is surely the period of time in which he's out on loan. Gregory has 2 goals already. Vokes has none. Brown has 1. Gregory has most likely won that race already but it still doesn't mean we should have kept him. Why would it just be over the period of the loan it has to be combined minutes played for all the players, time on the pitch or doesn't the time Gregory played whilst at Stoke his parent club count the minutes I have quoted are the totals for all three. Gregory has 3 league goals Brown 2 league and 1 cup and Vokes 1 cup goal, as I said the best comparison will be at the end of the season when all over and done is that fair enough ?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:36:46 GMT
He has played 2115mins, the biggest issue for me is that the manager see's him as a striker option, he's a winger and he brought 3 more wingers in after signing him. Brown offers exactly what Gregory offers. Runs around a lot with very little quality and is unlikely to score a goal unless it's from a yard out and unmissable. Even with a 2m transfer fee (if that fee is true) Brown has probably cost us a lot less than Gregory and his near 30k per week wages. He's on nowhere near £30k a week.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 17, 2021 13:44:19 GMT
1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. I would rather play Gregory than Brown. They are both as shit as each other. The only difference is Bown is younger, quicker, and cheaper. We can’t afford to pay Gregory £20k plus a week to sit on the bench, making occasional appearances if Fletcher gets injured.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 13:48:49 GMT
You said over the same period of time so surely that means the loan spell. By your reckoning, what Gregory contributes for Derby is what he could have contributed here instead so the comparison is surely the period of time in which he's out on loan. Gregory has 2 goals already. Vokes has none. Brown has 1. Gregory has most likely won that race already but it still doesn't mean we should have kept him. Why would it just be over the period of the loan it has to be combined minutes played for all the players, time on the pitch or doesn't the time Gregory played whilst at Stoke his parent club count the minutes I have quoted are the totals for all three. Gregory has 3 league goals Brown 2 league and 1 cup and Vokes 1 cup goal, as I said the best comparison will be at the end of the season when all over and done is that fair enough ? Well he contributed the sum total of fuck all for his parent club so I was doing him a favour by giving him the loan period as judgement. Had he stayed here, he would barely have played at all so his contribution would have been 1 solitary goal. Judge him over the season if you like. Makes no odds to me. He's shit by whatever measure you care to use and he would be neither use nor ornament to us in terms of improving our finishing position, style of play or effectiveness in front of goal.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 13:49:32 GMT
Brown offers exactly what Gregory offers. Runs around a lot with very little quality and is unlikely to score a goal unless it's from a yard out and unmissable. Even with a 2m transfer fee (if that fee is true) Brown has probably cost us a lot less than Gregory and his near 30k per week wages. He's on nowhere near £30k a week. You wouldn't like a bet on that would you? Last season he was in the top 10 highest paid players in the Championship. Sadly we had a few inclusions in that list.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:56:07 GMT
Why would it just be over the period of the loan it has to be combined minutes played for all the players, time on the pitch or doesn't the time Gregory played whilst at Stoke his parent club count the minutes I have quoted are the totals for all three. Gregory has 3 league goals Brown 2 league and 1 cup and Vokes 1 cup goal, as I said the best comparison will be at the end of the season when all over and done is that fair enough ? Well he contributed the sum total of fuck all for his parent club so I was doing him a favour by giving him the loan period as judgement. Had he stayed here, he would barely have played at all so his contribution would have been 1 solitary goal. Judge him over the season if you like. Makes no odds to me. He's shit by whatever measure you care to use and he would be neither use nor ornament to us in terms of improving our finishing position, style of play or effectiveness in front of goal. Sounds like you think you are going to be proved wrong to me, I think you may well be correct I will bookmark this thread and return to it when the season is over, he might be shit but I have a feeling the stats will be prove he's not as shit as the options we have and have been playing, if he has stayed here and the manger still insisted on selecting Vokes over him then he should be sacked.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 13:58:42 GMT
He’s got plenty of choices I really don’t understand this mentality. Norton showed more with his control and take down and the following 5 minutes than Vokes has all season. We simply don’t need to play Vokes, adapt the system, play Norton, convert a centre back/winger. Keep hold of Gregory. Ok Gregory isn’t dynamite. But guess what he’s actually scored goals in the league this season! I found it very odd that Gregory suddenly regained full fitness when he went out on loan, makes me question if this is down to footballing reasons, has there been a fall out between the manager and Gregory who knows it is a very strange decision to me. The problem is, if you have three players (four including Fletcher) for one spot and only one of them is wanted by another team, that’s the one you have to send out if you are desperate to reduce the deficit. Gregory would be better than Vokes right now, first and foremost because he can press high up the pitch. But I doubt we were in a position where we had offers for both Vokes and Gregory and decided Vokes was best for us.
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Post by DC1863 on Mar 17, 2021 13:59:51 GMT
MON needed to bring wingers in so he wouldn't have to be reminded constantly of the fallacy of letting Verlinden go. Probably but have they been any better than Verlinden and why 3 to replace 1 ? Clarke is better than Verlinden for me, I hope we loan him again with a view to buy next season, if Levy doesn't rinse us. I would rather we'd kept Verlinden over Matondo though currently. I'm not questioning the managers position anytime soon, he's been unlucky with injuries and is still dealing with a overpaid chunk of deadwood, most out on loan. There have been a few seemingly poor decisions, Gunn's loan extension seems pointless and there are questions over Matondo. We've got an easier run of fixtures to finish the season on and hopefully with a strong finish and a few decent incomings in the summer we can really challenge next season.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:59:58 GMT
He's on nowhere near £30k a week. You wouldn't like a bet on that would you? Last season he was in the top 10 highest paid players in the Championship. Sadly we had a few inclusions in that list. Lee Gregory £12,000 £624,000 31 Jacob Brown £13,000 £676,000 22 Sam Vokes £33,000 £1,716,000 30
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Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2021 14:00:24 GMT
Tiired old cliche but ‘patience is a virtue’. It’s taken a long time for us to get into this mess so it follows that it will take a while to unravel it especially with all the FFP complications. I’m confident that MON is both competent and a pragmatic football man who will eventually get things sorted (I also think his signings will , given time, prove to be of value). The only thing I find a bit disconcerting is that I still can’t really see what we are trying to do on the pitch - we still seem to lurch from game to game with not a lot of continuity or direction but again this is probably due to circumstances (our injury load this year would have tested anyone even if everything else was sorted!)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 14:03:44 GMT
Hard to blame a manager with the horrible injury list we've had. It isn't the odd player it's the majority of a team but last few weeks been a let down , still wouldn't change him. done great stuff introducing youngsters and our 3 prize younger players have all signed contracts which shows what they think of him.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 14:09:52 GMT
Well he contributed the sum total of fuck all for his parent club so I was doing him a favour by giving him the loan period as judgement. Had he stayed here, he would barely have played at all so his contribution would have been 1 solitary goal. Judge him over the season if you like. Makes no odds to me. He's shit by whatever measure you care to use and he would be neither use nor ornament to us in terms of improving our finishing position, style of play or effectiveness in front of goal. Sounds like you think you are going to be proved wrong to me, I think you may well be correct I will bookmark this thread and return to it when the season is over, he might be shit but I have a feeling the stats will be prove he's not as shit as the options we have and have been playing, if he has stayed here and the manger still insisted on selecting Vokes over him then he should be sacked. His stats already mean that he's won the race by your barometer. I've said that 3 times already so I'm not sure where you are getting your "sounds like you think you are going to be proved wrong" from. Gregory will have better stats than Brown and Vokes come the end of the season irrespective of whether you take it over the season or for the duration of his loan spell. All 3 are toss and having 1 instead of the other would make absolutely no position to our goals for column, overall league position or style of play.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Mar 17, 2021 14:29:49 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style 1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. We’ll still be using the injury exuse next season and the season after that. Are we still gonna be using the same exuse for MON if we’re still Shit ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 14:36:41 GMT
MON needed to bring wingers in so he wouldn't have to be reminded constantly of the fallacy of letting Verlinden go. Probably but have they been any better than Verlinden and why 3 to replace 1 ? He played either side and no they haven't made any difference. But Verlinden hasn't exactly starred in Sittard, so everyone's a loser really.
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Post by lordb on Mar 17, 2021 14:38:47 GMT
If occasional substitute Vokes is the number one concern (& obviously he's been garbage) then that's pretty low down on manager doubtometer surely?
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 17, 2021 14:45:58 GMT
1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. We’ll still be using the injury exuse next season and the season after that. Are we still gonna be using the same exuse for MON if we’re still Shit ? I suppose that depends if next season gets wrecked by injuries as well. If not then look on the bright side, he’ll get sacked and you’ll have a new manger to moan your bollocks off about. Happy days for you 👍
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 17, 2021 15:03:56 GMT
A win on Saturday and he’ll have collected 100 points in the 16 months in the job,not too bad considering the position we were in when he took over🤔 True that’s good. But how many points since December- do you know?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 17, 2021 15:11:19 GMT
A win on Saturday and he’ll have collected 100 points in the 16 months in the job,not too bad considering the position we were in when he took over🤔 True that’s good. But how many points since December- do you know? Since Campbell got injured and went off 21 points from 21 league games
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Post by lordb on Mar 17, 2021 15:12:24 GMT
A win on Saturday and he’ll have collected 100 points in the 16 months in the job,not too bad considering the position we were in when he took over🤔 True that’s good. But how many points since December- do you know? not enough on reflection you are right, whenever a manger has a run of games where the results aren't great we should sack them TP didn't win any of his first, 10 was it(?), games, should have sacked him Gudjon had two play off failures, should have sacked him Waddo had all the boo boys out for him in the 60's as it was too negative, should have sacked him context definitely shouldn't come into it O'Neill should be sacked for signing Vokes,Ince e.t.c.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Mar 17, 2021 15:16:47 GMT
We’ll still be using the injury exuse next season and the season after that. Are we still gonna be using the same exuse for MON if we’re still Shit ? I suppose that depends if next season gets wrecked by injuries as well. If not then look on the bright side, he’ll get sacked and you’ll have a new manger to moan your bollocks off about. Happy days for you 👍 Just asked a question, no need to get personal.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 17, 2021 15:20:11 GMT
True that’s good. But how many points since December- do you know? not enough on reflection you are right, whenever a manger has a run of games where the results aren't great we should sack them TP didn't win any of his first, 10 was it(?), games, should have sacked him Gudjon had two play off failures, should have sacked him Waddo had all the boo boys out for him in the 60's as it was too negative, should have sacked him context definitely shouldn't come into it O'Neill should be sacked for signing Vokes,Ince e.t.c. Gudjon was arguably a lucky boy to be fair, after that Walsall game I'd have happily seen him shot out of a cannon into the heart of the sun.
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Post by lordb on Mar 17, 2021 15:23:21 GMT
You wouldn't like a bet on that would you? Last season he was in the top 10 highest paid players in the Championship. Sadly we had a few inclusions in that list. Lee Gregory £12,000 £624,000 31 Jacob Brown £13,000 £676,000 22 Sam Vokes £33,000 £1,716,000 30
£12k for Gregory? Millwall offered him more than that & he signed for us for more still
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Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 17, 2021 15:25:34 GMT
I wasnt happy to get rid if Gregory either. But maybe fans had more hope for this season than management in the window. Neither Vokes nor Gregory are part of ONeils longer term plans, nobody wanted Vokes, somebody would take Gregory.
And I assume we needed to shed wages.
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Post by lordb on Mar 17, 2021 15:30:14 GMT
not enough on reflection you are right, whenever a manger has a run of games where the results aren't great we should sack them TP didn't win any of his first, 10 was it(?), games, should have sacked him Gudjon had two play off failures, should have sacked him Waddo had all the boo boys out for him in the 60's as it was too negative, should have sacked him context definitely shouldn't come into it O'Neill should be sacked for signing Vokes,Ince e.t.c. Gudjon was arguably a lucky boy to be fair, after that Walsall game I'd have happily seen him shot out of a cannon into the heart of the sun. true however it does show the value of sticking with a manager the season after when we won the play offs we we're top on New Years Day bu then had the worst injury crisis I can recall & ended up in play offs O'Neill has already proven he's a good manager with NI & proved it again last season with Stoke getting rid of the expensive bad players/players who don't want to be here Vokes,Ince,Afobe,N'Diaye,Etebo,Bauer,Wimmer,Woods,Bruno will be very difficult & probably not achievable by any manager other players Gregory,Lyndsey should be easier as they are not paid as well & don't appear to be off the field problems last thing we need is another manager to start this fucking process again
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Post by RF10 on Mar 17, 2021 15:30:24 GMT
Can’t help but doubt anyone who produces football that is so difficult to watch. Last night was as good football we have played all season for the first 25 mins until Fletcher went off.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Mar 17, 2021 15:32:07 GMT
Can’t help but doubt anyone who produces football that is so difficult to watch. Last night was as good football we have played all season for the first 25 mins until Fletcher went off. So we only played 25 minutes out of 90, is that good enough now ?
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 17, 2021 15:39:12 GMT
True that’s good. But how many points since December- do you know? Since Campbell got injured and went off 21 points from 21 league games Proves how vital he Campbell and how hard he is to replace, if we had lost Fuller in the promotion season or the first premier league season we'd have suffered a similar poor run of results.
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