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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 17, 2021 12:06:25 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing.
However three big issues/
1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode.
2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive.
3. Letting Gregory go out
Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 17, 2021 12:10:38 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style 1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 17, 2021 12:11:39 GMT
Point two I agree with, however:
Point one, he knows Vokes is finished but we have literally no other option up front currently and I don’t think he’ll want to throw a youngster in at the deep end as it could hinder them rather than help them presently, and not playing him when he’s one of the top earners would look embarrassing.
Point three, Gregory can not hit a cows arse with a banjo, he scored last night but it’s taken him about 3,000 attempts on goal before he finally converted one, plus he’s another in the high earning over 30 club who we want to be rid of, he’s certainly not a player to be pining for the return of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 12:16:25 GMT
I don't think MON's a Vokes diehard...he's just one of a very limited field of forward options that's open to the manager.
The big question is is it the manager who lacks ambition and proactivity, or is it the players that have no drive and flexibility to change? I'll grant you that he seemingly forgets that subs are an option or he just doesn't believe there are better players on the bench.
If Gregory wanted to leave would there be any point in keeping him`I can't believe how essential he has become after leaving. When he was here he never seemed to be able to do anything...
To answer the big question, I don't think the manager lacks ambition. He's just let down by players who seemingly forget his instructions when they're on the pitch, a common problem in football at this level.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 17, 2021 12:33:11 GMT
I consider myself to be a moaning twat but even I can see there isn't much he can do.
We need campbell fit and a couple of clever signings in the summer. Not a jacob brown type mistake
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 12:33:31 GMT
Point two I agree with, however: Point one, he knows Vokes is finished but we have literally no other option up front currently and I don’t think he’ll want to throw a youngster in at the deep end as it could hinder them rather than help them presently, and not playing him when he’s one of the top earners would look embarrassing. Point three, Gregory can not hit a cows arse with a banjo, he scored last night but it’s taken him about 3,000 attempts on goal before he finally converted one, plus he’s another in the high earning over 30 club who we want to be rid of, he’s certainly not a player to be pining for the return of. MON stated in January we had plenty of options up front before letting Gregory go on loan to Derby, I find it hard to believe that he is not a better option than Vokes or Brown others see it differently I suppose, the only real indicator will be the number of goals/assists each one has over the same amount of playing time at the end of the season, not sure embarrassment should be any reason when you take into account the amount we have spent on the players out on loan, now that is embarrassing. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 12:37:37 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style 1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. I would rather play Gregory than Brown. |
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Post by theonlooker on Mar 17, 2021 12:41:28 GMT
This season is a write off and has been since the Campbell injury - whether that is down to circumstance or manager led negativity post injury for a few months is another argument.
The most important work we can be doing now is off the pitch in trying to get rid of as much crap as we can shift and get deals lined up for the summer, so we can hit the ground running for a big season next season.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 17, 2021 12:44:03 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style 1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. He’s got plenty of choices I really don’t understand this mentality. Norton showed more with his control and take down and the following 5 minutes than Vokes has all season. We simply don’t need to play Vokes, adapt the system, play Norton, convert a centre back/winger. Keep hold of Gregory. Ok Gregory isn’t dynamite. But guess what he’s actually scored goals in the league this season! |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 12:45:31 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style 3 responses that will hopefully temper your doubts; 1) He's hardly persisting with Vokes. He plays only when he has to and he only came on last night to offer us height defensively. Vokes plays when he's no other choice in reality and that much was clear from his post-match interview. 2) What subs could he make in a game. Our bench, given 5 injuries to key players, is not as strong as it might be and in most instances, a substitution weakens us not strengthens us 3) No manager should be doubted because he lets Lee Gregory go. Lee Gregory is absolutely useless and is also on an extortionate wage. He's toss and the sooner he's gone permanently the better. If this loan to Derby is the first steps to getting shut of him permanently next season, O'Neill is an absolute genius. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 12:47:36 GMT
1. He’s got no choice due to injuries 2. He’s got no choice due to injuries 3. Gregory is crap and no better than Brown. It was a cost cutting exercise and probably not even his decision. He’s got plenty of choices I really don’t understand this mentality. Norton showed more with his control and take down and the following 5 minutes than Vokes has all season. We simply don’t need to play Vokes, adapt the system, play Norton, convert a centre back/winger. Keep hold of Gregory. Ok Gregory isn’t dynamite. But guess what he’s actually scored goals in the league this season! I found it very odd that Gregory suddenly regained full fitness when he went out on loan, makes me question if this is down to footballing reasons, has there been a fall out between the manager and Gregory who knows it is a very strange decision to me. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 12:48:59 GMT
Point two I agree with, however: Point one, he knows Vokes is finished but we have literally no other option up front currently and I don’t think he’ll want to throw a youngster in at the deep end as it could hinder them rather than help them presently, and not playing him when he’s one of the top earners would look embarrassing. Point three, Gregory can not hit a cows arse with a banjo, he scored last night but it’s taken him about 3,000 attempts on goal before he finally converted one, plus he’s another in the high earning over 30 club who we want to be rid of, he’s certainly not a player to be pining for the return of. MON stated in January we had plenty of options up front before letting Gregory go on loan to Derby, I find it hard to believe that he is not a better option than Vokes or Brown others see it differently I suppose, the only real indicator will be the number of goals/assists each one has over the same amount of playing time at the end of the season, not sure embarrassment should be any reason when you take into account the amount we have spent on the players out on loan, now that is embarrassing. Gregory has scored 2 for Derby already so he's already won that race. Doesn't mean a lot though. Gregory is shit and is struggling to get into a Derby team finding goals harder to come by than we are prior. Gregory being here makes absolutely no difference to where we'll finish the season. We'd finish no better by having him available. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 12:50:05 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style 3 responses that will hopefully temper your doubts; 1) He's hardly persisting with Vokes. He plays only when he has to and he only came on last night to offer us height defensively. Vokes plays when he's no other choice in reality and that much was clear from his post-match interview. 2) What subs could he make in a game. Our bench, given 5 injuries to key players, is not as strong as it might be and in most instances, a substitution weakens us not strengthens us 3) No manager should be doubted because he lets Lee Gregory go. Lee Gregory is absolutely useless and is also on an extortionate wage. He's toss and the sooner he's gone permanently the better. If this loan to Derby is the first steps to getting shut of him permanently next season, O'Neill is an absolute genius. He might be useless but he is a better option than Vokes or Brown in my opinion. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 12:53:10 GMT
He’s got plenty of choices I really don’t understand this mentality. Norton showed more with his control and take down and the following 5 minutes than Vokes has all season. We simply don’t need to play Vokes, adapt the system, play Norton, convert a centre back/winger. Keep hold of Gregory. Ok Gregory isn’t dynamite. But guess what he’s actually scored goals in the league this season! I found it very odd that Gregory suddenly regained full fitness when he went out on loan, makes me question if this is down to footballing reasons, has there been a fall out between the manager and Gregory who knows it is a very strange decision to me. When he got injured we were told how long he would be out for and in the weeks leading up to his return, we were told when he would rejoin the group for full training. The fact it coincided with the transfer window being open is nothing more than a coincidence. Gregory is a nice lad I'm sure, but he's hopeless, he's on a big wage and O'Neill doesn't want him longer term. If we could have got rid of Vokes at the same time, make no mistake about it, we would have done. If Lee Gregory is the stick to beat the manager with, the stick isn't going to hurt him very much. It will be about as painful as a fly landing on his lovely jacket. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 12:54:09 GMT
3 responses that will hopefully temper your doubts; 1) He's hardly persisting with Vokes. He plays only when he has to and he only came on last night to offer us height defensively. Vokes plays when he's no other choice in reality and that much was clear from his post-match interview. 2) What subs could he make in a game. Our bench, given 5 injuries to key players, is not as strong as it might be and in most instances, a substitution weakens us not strengthens us 3) No manager should be doubted because he lets Lee Gregory go. Lee Gregory is absolutely useless and is also on an extortionate wage. He's toss and the sooner he's gone permanently the better. If this loan to Derby is the first steps to getting shut of him permanently next season, O'Neill is an absolute genius. He might be useless but he is a better option than Vokes or Brown in my opinion. You and your arthritic knee that you aren't the right type of person to be seen promptly about is a better option than Sam Vokes. It's arguably a better option than Lee Gregory as well! |
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Post by Veritas on Mar 17, 2021 12:56:30 GMT
3 responses that will hopefully temper your doubts; 1) He's hardly persisting with Vokes. He plays only when he has to and he only came on last night to offer us height defensively. Vokes plays when he's no other choice in reality and that much was clear from his post-match interview. 2) What subs could he make in a game. Our bench, given 5 injuries to key players, is not as strong as it might be and in most instances, a substitution weakens us not strengthens us 3) No manager should be doubted because he lets Lee Gregory go. Lee Gregory is absolutely useless and is also on an extortionate wage. He's toss and the sooner he's gone permanently the better. If this loan to Derby is the first steps to getting shut of him permanently next season, O'Neill is an absolute genius. He might be useless but he is a better option than Vokes or Brown in my opinion. Someone was prepared to take Gregory off our wage bill which meant it was a no brainer. |
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Post by redstriper on Mar 17, 2021 13:00:41 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style I think you're worrying a bit much about on field issues when there's no reason to get agitated. We aren't going anywhere, the season is a good as over for us, relax and cross your fingers we have a good summer of dealings and are allowed in the ground for the next one. I'm glad we aren't missing out on a big celebration, i dont Envy Norwich fans, missing out on loads of wins only to get mullered every week next year when you are back in the ground, watching the game that wins promotion from the sofa - it'd be a bit like being locked out of an orgy.  |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:01:13 GMT
He might be useless but he is a better option than Vokes or Brown in my opinion. Someone was prepared to take Gregory off our wage bill which meant it was a no brainer. I understand that but he is in my opinion still a better striker option than Vokes or Brown, his wages would have been covered if we hadn't taken three wingers on loan. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:05:07 GMT
I found it very odd that Gregory suddenly regained full fitness when he went out on loan, makes me question if this is down to footballing reasons, has there been a fall out between the manager and Gregory who knows it is a very strange decision to me. When he got injured we were told how long he would be out for and in the weeks leading up to his return, we were told when he would rejoin the group for full training. The fact it coincided with the transfer window being open is nothing more than a coincidence. Gregory is a nice lad I'm sure, but he's hopeless, he's on a big wage and O'Neill doesn't want him longer term. If we could have got rid of Vokes at the same time, make no mistake about it, we would have done. If Lee Gregory is the stick to beat the manager with, the stick isn't going to hurt him very much. It will be about as painful as a fly landing on his lovely jacket. We can judge accurately at the end of the season who out of the three options apart from Fletcher is more affective, when all the stats are in we will be able to compare the three mins. played, assists and most importantly goals scored. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 17, 2021 13:06:20 GMT
A win on Saturday and he’ll have collected 100 points in the 16 months in the job,not too bad considering the position we were in when he took over🤔
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Post by Veritas on Mar 17, 2021 13:06:20 GMT
Someone was prepared to take Gregory off our wage bill which meant it was a no brainer. I understand that but he is in my opinion still a better striker option than Vokes or Brown, his wages would have been covered if we hadn't taken three wingers on loan. If he was still here it would just be him missing chances rather than Brown, without the benefit of hindsight both Matondo and Clarke looked good additions and I still think Clarke gives more than Gregory. Doughty is one for next season. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 17, 2021 13:06:56 GMT
When he got injured we were told how long he would be out for and in the weeks leading up to his return, we were told when he would rejoin the group for full training. The fact it coincided with the transfer window being open is nothing more than a coincidence. Gregory is a nice lad I'm sure, but he's hopeless, he's on a big wage and O'Neill doesn't want him longer term. If we could have got rid of Vokes at the same time, make no mistake about it, we would have done. If Lee Gregory is the stick to beat the manager with, the stick isn't going to hurt him very much. It will be about as painful as a fly landing on his lovely jacket. We can judge accurately at the end of the season who out of the three options apart from Fletcher is more affective, when all the stats are in we will be able to compare the three mins. played, assists and most importantly goals scored. Gregory has scored 2 goals already, which is 2 more than Vokes is likely to get and 1 more than Brown has or is likely to get. With a whopping 2 goals to his name, I'd say that is a race that Gregory has already won. Doesn't make him any more useful for us though because he's scored 2 goals from a combined total of 1.5 yards for Derby. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:10:23 GMT
I understand that but he is in my opinion still a better striker option than Vokes or Brown, his wages would have been covered if we hadn't taken three wingers on loan. If he was still here it would just be him missing chances rather than Brown, without the benefit of hindsight both Matondo and Clarke looked good additions and I still think Clarke gives more than Gregory. Doughty is one for next season. At the end of the season we can compare the stats of our striking options apart from Fletcher, if Brown or Vokes come out above Gregory I will have been wrong and you right so let's wait and see how it pans out, is that fair ? |
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Post by damagedswan on Mar 17, 2021 13:14:33 GMT
I think Gregory is marginally, marginally more useful than Vokes, but 'the manager got rid of the wrong shit back-up striker' is not much of a reason to doubt him.
Can't disagree with the subs though - his hands have been tied a bit for sure but they've been pretty uninspiring.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 13:21:05 GMT
We can judge accurately at the end of the season who out of the three options apart from Fletcher is more affective, when all the stats are in we will be able to compare the three mins. played, assists and most importantly goals scored. Gregory has scored 2 goals already, which is 2 more than Vokes is likely to get and 1 more than Brown has or is likely to get. With a whopping 2 goals to his name, I'd say that is a race that Gregory has already won. Doesn't make him any more useful for us though because he's scored 2 goals from a combined total of 1.5 yards for Derby. It's not an entirely correct race. First of all Brown has got 100% more than you're willing to give him credit for. He's scored 2 league goals for us plus 1 in the caraboa. Moreover he's not a striker, whereas Gregory allegedly is. He's played a fair number of matches on the wing, and even as a rwb. Because of Campbell's injury and Vokes' inability he's been shoehorned into playing as if he was Campbell. He should still have scored more though. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:22:28 GMT
We can judge accurately at the end of the season who out of the three options apart from Fletcher is more affective, when all the stats are in we will be able to compare the three mins. played, assists and most importantly goals scored. Gregory has scored 2 goals already, which is 2 more than Vokes is likely to get and 1 more than Brown has or is likely to get. With a whopping 2 goals to his name, I'd say that is a race that Gregory has already won. Doesn't make him any more useful for us though because he's scored 2 goals from a combined total of 1.5 yards for Derby. Vokes 1 League Cup 960mins. Brown 2 League Goals 1 League Cup 2115 mins Lee Gregory 3 League goals 967 mins
No stats for distance from goals but I can't see why that makes any real difference tbf.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 13:22:31 GMT
Someone was prepared to take Gregory off our wage bill which meant it was a no brainer. I understand that but he is in my opinion still a better striker option than Vokes or Brown, his wages would have been covered if we hadn't taken three wingers on loan. MON needed to bring wingers in so he wouldn't have to be reminded constantly of the fallacy of letting Verlinden go. |
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Post by westlandstokie on Mar 17, 2021 13:23:12 GMT
Really doubting MON at present And I don’t want to, as I like the guy and cling to the hope he’ll get us firing. However three big issues/ 1. Persistence with Vokes. It’s harsh but he’s finished, he offers nothing 680 minutes in the league, no assists no goals and he still gets on the pitch. Furthermore more often than not it hands the initiative to the opposition as we go into hoof slow mo mode. 2. Subs and ambition in games - consistently negative and reactive rather than proactive. 3. Letting Gregory go out Any more? Hopefully next season will see one or two new faces and a return to the March 2020 form/style I agree with points one and two...but not point three. Gregory huffs and puffs but basically he is a poor footballer. It shows how desperate we’ve become when we get upset about Gregory leaving...I know we are lacking options up top but come on. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 17, 2021 13:25:50 GMT
Can’t help but doubt anyone who produces football that is so difficult to watch.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 17, 2021 13:26:11 GMT
I understand that but he is in my opinion still a better striker option than Vokes or Brown, his wages would have been covered if we hadn't taken three wingers on loan. MON needed to bring wingers in so he wouldn't have to be reminded constantly of the fallacy of letting Verlinden go. Probably but have they been any better than Verlinden and why 3 to replace 1 ? |
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