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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 11:34:46 GMT
I think I need a break from this place, it’s doing my fucking head in. 🏳🤦🏻♂️ 100% thinking the same, imagine a manager saving us from relegation, moving on dead wood, blooding youngsters into the team, getting us top half the table all in a little over 12 months, and then coming on here and seeing fans calling for him to be sacked. C'est la vie. MON is lucky to be here. Other clubs with 1 win in 12 games, the manager would already be gone. Which actually makes me proud of Stoke. They never/rarely do kneejerk reactions around here.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jan 23, 2021 11:36:13 GMT
FFP gets mentioned a lot on here but the point is still valid. Though not all of the money will be available after contracts expire but for Shawcross’ wages we could get two Souttars, two Collins and still have change. For Allen’s wages we could get five Cousins! Vokes is on over double Campbell. Then there’s Wimmer, Bauer, Ince and whatever we might still be contributing towards Ndiaye, Etebo and BMI which altogether is likely above £100k a week. We’ll be recovering from this mess for a lot longer yet.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 23, 2021 11:43:00 GMT
It's only just over 2 years since we sacked Rowett for not "pissing this tin pot league", appointing Jones and flirting with relegation and the goldfish are back calling for another go at the sack race to nowhere.
O'Neill has talked about a long term plan and having tried the Watford approach the club are going to back him. Going up this year would be a bonus - and a massive problem given where the squad is currently at. Unless things go horribly wrong O'Neill is here for 2 or 3 seasons - and more if his long term plans start to bear fruit.
Changing formation, bringing in new players and re-introducing players coming back from injury was always going to be disruptive and is it really a surprise we've gone backwards recently? End of February will give a better indicator of whether we are still in with a chance of a playoff place or mid table mediocrity - and I'll take mid table mediocrity this season.
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Post by franklin on Jan 23, 2021 11:43:46 GMT
Its not beyond the realms of possibility MON seems like a nice chap but his players seem to be taking the piss. TBF to MON he steadied the ship and got us out of almost certain relegation last season, this season he appears to have been found out his limitations and lack of managerial experience at this level have become evident, we will see how he manages this slump. Its going to be an interesting few months that's for sure.
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Post by LankyPotter on Jan 23, 2021 11:47:40 GMT
This is his first sull season so I’m afraid you don’t really have a large enough sample size to guage how far he can take us. We have taken a massive step up from the previous two seasons in this league. I truly don’t understand some fans. We finally have someone who seems to be a proper manager and some actually want him out after a mediocre Christmas period. You have to give the bloke time and by time I genuinely do mean at least 2 full seasons to actually gauge where we are. So if we are still shit in 12 months are we allowed to moan then? You can do what you like pal but you are clueless😂
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 23, 2021 11:58:33 GMT
It's only just over 2 years since we sacked Rowett for not "pissing this tin pot league", appointing Jones and flirting with relegation and the goldfish are back calling for another go at the sack race to nowhere. O'Neill has talked about a long term plan and having tried the Watford approach the club are going to back him. Going up this year would be a bonus - and a massive problem given where the squad is currently at. Unless things go horribly wrong O'Neill is here for 2 or 3 seasons - and more if his long term plans start to bear fruit. Changing formation, bringing in new players and re-introducing players coming back from injury was always going to be disruptive and is it really a surprise we've gone backwards recently? End of February will give a better indicator of whether we are still in with a chance of a playoff place or mid table mediocrity - and I'll take mid table mediocrity this season. Well said Mrs ONeil
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Post by theteacher on Jan 23, 2021 12:01:11 GMT
We are the paying the price for previous managers bad business. You’re very lucky if you can build a great side using free transfers or cheap deals. They’re cheap for a reason. Either they’re on the down or they’re young and not that good. There will always be exceptions of course. That said for all his good work MON isn’t helping himself at the moment with his team selections particularly in midfield and lack of flexibility. I still think however he’s the best manager we’ve had in a long time and we have to give him some grace with the luck he’s had with injuries. If Tyrese Campbell was fit we’d be a different beast and you don’t replace someone like him without a serious outlay of money which we can’t make. MON is in my opinion still the man to take us forwards. Starting next season when some of the dead wood on big money has gone and he has the chance to invest properly. I like MON and he is the right man for the job at this time - personally I have had some concern(s) for a while in that his history suggests he is a good man-manager in an underdog situation. The challenge is can he become a manager of a top-dog team? A team who sets up to bully the opposition with positive intent. I really hope so but I do have some concern in this area and have had since the start of the season (not these last 12-13 games). I really like him and want him to succeed for him, the club and us the fans. IMO the test comes in the 2021-2022 season with two more transfer windows. The proof will be in the pudding and a proper review of where we are and where we are heading will have to be taken at the end of that season.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 23, 2021 12:02:38 GMT
The guy is out of his depth he has managed Brechin city and shamrock rovers ffs what on earth is he doing here...only reason he's cheap and a yes man to coates/Scholes..we are only going one way with this shower and their abysmal signings...one win in 13 how is this guy in a job ..sack the lot Absolutely disgraceful post. I doubt he is cheap, I would imagine he is one of the better paid Championship managers and no way is he a yes man. He has got rid of a lot of the backroom staff who have had a cushy job for life here for the last 10 or more years (Quy and the medical staff for, starters). If he is out of his depth how come he saved us last year and turned us into a top half team 12 months later? How come he persuaded a player who'd had enough and was intent on leaving to stay? How come he persuaded JOM to come for less wages to the Championship instead of the Premier? How come Sheffield Utd think enough of him to recall one of their young prospects from one loan to work with O'Neil for the second half of the season or Spurs chose us to send Clarke to when they had plenty of other options? How come Doughty chose to come and work for us instead of the wonderful club which is Bournemouth or Celtic or the up and coming manager Gerrard? Nothing supports your claim that he is out of his depth apart from a dip in form following an unprecedented injury crisis. Leeds and West Brom both had similar dips last season yet still got promoted, Liverpool are going through similar, Utd went through similar earlier this season. Be realistic and accept that no one gets a smooth run.
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Post by Godo on Jan 23, 2021 12:03:57 GMT
And this is why I don't come on here very often anymore. Some soft twat - who knows nothing about football, has probably never played at any sort of level and thinks the real World is like Football Manager where you can offload all of your shit players over night - posts this shite and away we go with a series of posts like this! MON has made mistakes (e.g. signing and playing Chester ) and I don't know why he is wasting Collins out at RB BUT if he hadn't arrived we'd have been in Division 1 by now. He has inherited close to 1 million in wages a month for shit players who don't want to be here, aren't good enough to be here or aren't good enough to be anywhere else!
If we had a fit 26 year old Fletcher we would be top 4 but because of our financial situation we have an injury prone 33 year old Fletcher who is a stop gap until we can release the funds to sign a younger equivalent. Instead of signing players who weren't good enough or of the wrong character MON is signing younger, pacier, hungrier players who seem to have the right application and WANT to be here, who see our club as a step up not wankers like Wimmer etc who think the club is beneath them.
The recent signings all show that we are on the right path bringing in players like Brown, Matondo, Clarke, N-Davies and hopefully Doughy will be the same. Getting Campbell to stay was down to the manager and even when he has signed older players ( Chester aside!!) these have been players like Fletcher and Mikel who have added class and know how to the team and the youngsters must be benefitting from working alongside pros like that.
We are a striker and 2 full backs ( I wish Norrington-Davies was here permanently !!) away from being a real threat in this division - that's compared with this time last season when we wondered how we'd survive in Div 1. A lot of the formations and selections have been based on pragmatic decisions around player availability, player fitness etc that we don't know the background to and this has been an intensive season when rotation has been needed due to fixtures coming thick and fast. When you also factor in the injuries to key players like Campbell, Davies, Allen, Clucas etc then just maybe we should grow the fuck up and cut the manager some slack.
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Post by trincostokie on Jan 23, 2021 12:11:54 GMT
The guy is out of his depth he has managed Brechin city and shamrock rovers ffs what on earth is he doing here...only reason he's cheap and a yes man to coates/Scholes..we are only going one way with this shower and their abysmal signings...one win in 13 how is this guy in a job ..sack the lot I log on in the hope of something positive to ease the pain of yesterday and the first post I read is this...give your head a wobble man! That was utterly disgraceful...
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Post by fca47 on Jan 23, 2021 12:12:14 GMT
Think the juries out at the moment, he has justifiable reasons for the situation at the moment. But you can't help having doubts, we are not going to make the play offs, but I think at the beginning of the season, the results were better than expected. If he is a good manager hopefully he will get us back on track this season, pity it's too late
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Post by chuckrocky on Jan 23, 2021 12:12:30 GMT
He’s got another 12 months before I start questioning his position. All this nonsense about FFP and being hampered by previous managers poor business doesn’t wash with me because I still think we’ve got a very decent side for this league. Yes we would like a striker that can score us 20 goals but so does pretty much every other side in the league. My biggest concern is despite our decent form around Oct/Nov we have generally been poor in most games. I can only think of the Brentford game where we’ve managed to put two decent halves of football together. There’s absolutely no doubt that the managers negativity is holding us back at the moment. The longer he leaves the shackles on the more fans will start turning on him. but he didn’t inherit a decent side did he else we wouldn’t have been bottom of the table Do you not think that without our bomb squad players we would have somewhere in the region of 250k per week ( only a guess). With that additional money we could get the striker we need We have to be patient I’m afraid If the side he inherited was that bad why was our form from when he took over last season only bettered by two other sides?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 12:13:03 GMT
We are the paying the price for previous managers bad business. You’re very lucky if you can build a great side using free transfers or cheap deals. They’re cheap for a reason. Either they’re on the down or they’re young and not that good. There will always be exceptions of course. That said for all his good work MON isn’t helping himself at the moment with his team selections particularly in midfield and lack of flexibility. I still think however he’s the best manager we’ve had in a long time and we have to give him some grace with the luck he’s had with injuries. If Tyrese Campbell was fit we’d be a different beast and you don’t replace someone like him without a serious outlay of money which we can’t make. MON is in my opinion still the man to take us forwards. Starting next season when some of the dead wood on big money has gone and he has the chance to invest properly. I like MON and he is the right man for the job at this time - personally I have had some concern(s) for a while in that his history suggests he is a good man-manager in an underdog situation. The challenge is can he become a manager of a top-dog team? A team who sets up to bully the opposition with positive intent. I really hope so but I do have some concern in this area and have had since the start of the season (not these last 12-13 games). I really like him and want him to succeed for him, the club and us the fans. IMO the test comes in the 2021-2022 season with two more transfer windows. The proof will be in the pudding and a proper review of where we are and where we are heading will have to be taken at the end of that season. It's a very good point. He's never really worked with star players, those that he did, he's trying to or have got rid of. Although he's done with very well with Powell, whom he rescued from Jones' "destruction" of him. It's true that he likes to work from the POV of an underdog. That brought him relative success with NI. It's why he plays with three defensive midfielders. He apparently doesn't realise that leaves him with just three attacking options, sometimes not even that (when McClean, his alter ego, plays for instance). It's why he decides to close up shop when 1 up. Although it's led to draws or losses several times, it's his nature to do it anyway again and again. It's a concern that he appears unable or even unwilling to change himself. It's also a concern that he's quick to criticise players (as a whole, rarely individuals) but never admits his own mistakes. But he's done more good than bad. I'm certainly happy for him to stay on another year.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 23, 2021 12:22:53 GMT
Unbelievable. Saw murmurings about sacking him on twitter as well. I must have wandered into a parallel universe. I don't want him sacked, I'm just being realistic about thd job he'll do here. People say he's slowly building for the future but when you've signed Mikel, Chester and Fletcher well into their 30s and you're signing loan players who'll go back to their parent clubs in a few months, I don't see that being the case. Brown and TOB aren't up to the standard so you can say only Fox and Thompson are signings that build for the future out of the 3 windows he's had. He doesn't have the experience at club level to get a team promoted and it is starting to show. Where is he supposed to sign all these amazing youngsters for the future from? Are teams just going to give them to us? We're having to try and be very smart in how we do business. if there's no younger player we can find for a low enough fee, we have to plug the gap with a temporary option, which is either going to be a loan signing or an older player on a 12 month deal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 12:26:09 GMT
When I was on the tube coming back from the Charlton defeat last season under Jones, if I could’ve looked into the future to our current situation and see people wanting the manager who rescued us from relegation, sorted out the dead wood, plays academy kids, got us into the top half and had us flirting with the play offs to be sacked, I wouldn’t have believed it
Even the biggest morons on here would surely wince at that.
Anyone who wants him sacked isn’t a Stoke fan and has absolutely no idea about football.
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Post by mowlee on Jan 23, 2021 12:31:36 GMT
Will be interesting to see where Middlesbrough end up this season to us with Warnock taking over 7/8 months after O’neill took over
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 23, 2021 12:32:56 GMT
It might be worth checking some of the OP's previous posts
“Anyone with an ounce of sense can see tymon and campbell are way way short of what is required at this level clearly the manager cant”
On Souttar “He is absolute toss not even league 2 standard no pace worse than shawx” Another Steven Tweed?
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Post by ryd1967 on Jan 23, 2021 12:34:28 GMT
I am not happy with what's going on but I am a realist. We are much better off than this time last year. Rome wasn't built in a day. Did you honestly think we would higher up the table. I have been going since 1975 and seen worse. Getting rid now would be a disaster.CTID. I’ve been going 40+ years myself , with the squad we have play offs should be the least we finish , I’ve not said get rid but he needs improve and improve soon My apologies if I have offended you. I am just frustrated with all the negative comments starting with the original title of this post and poster. It was never for the honest fans. I am sure you support the boys as much as I do. We will still keep the faith.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 23, 2021 12:34:44 GMT
Will be interesting to see where Middlesbrough end up this season to us with Warnock taking over 7/8 months after O’neill took over Warnock is a very experienced manager MON is still relatively new to Football League management and has made a very decent start.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 12:35:20 GMT
It might be worth checking some of the OP's previous posts “Anyone with an ounce of sense can see tymon and campbell are way way short of what is required at this level clearly the manager cant” On Souttar “He is absolute toss not even league 2 standard no pace worse than shawx” Another Steven Tweed? Ahhh. He’s a Vale fan. Admin - can we remove this thread. It’s an intruder.
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 23, 2021 12:35:42 GMT
First of all I don’t think he should be sacked now. But I don’t think he’s the manager to take us forward for various reasons. Did great last season but a serious question to all these fans who won’t have anything said against him or do criticise him but say he will be good.
How long do you give him if things carry on as they are because we can’t lee saying well he kept us up last season
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Post by pretzel on Jan 23, 2021 12:36:45 GMT
It might be worth checking some of the OP's previous posts “Anyone with an ounce of sense can see tymon and campbell are way way short of what is required at this level clearly the manager cant” On Souttar “He is absolute toss not even league 2 standard no pace worse than shawx” Another Steven Tweed? His threads started too... some classic knee jerk stuff
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 23, 2021 12:37:14 GMT
I don't want him sacked, I'm just being realistic about thd job he'll do here. People say he's slowly building for the future but when you've signed Mikel, Chester and Fletcher well into their 30s and you're signing loan players who'll go back to their parent clubs in a few months, I don't see that being the case. Brown and TOB aren't up to the standard so you can say only Fox and Thompson are signings that build for the future out of the 3 windows he's had. He doesn't have the experience at club level to get a team promoted and it is starting to show. Where is he supposed to sign all these amazing youngsters for the future from? Are teams just going to give them to us? We're having to try and be very smart in how we do business. if there's no younger player we can find for a low enough fee, we have to plug the gap with a temporary option, which is either going to be a loan signing or an older player on a 12 month deal. Mate I think it was Mark Twain who said- “No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot”.
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Post by Davef on Jan 23, 2021 12:44:05 GMT
It might be worth checking some of the OP's previous posts “Anyone with an ounce of sense can see tymon and campbell are way way short of what is required at this level clearly the manager cant” On Souttar “He is absolute toss not even league 2 standard no pace worse than shawx” Another Steven Tweed? His threads started too... some classic knee jerk stuff Yeah, he wanted Pulis sacked after the second game of the 2009/10 season.
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Post by tqstokie on Jan 23, 2021 13:34:36 GMT
IMHO MON has earned the right to be cut some slack. We were not thrashed by Watford had we been more positive and scored when we were on top it could have been a different story. We need to be more aggressive and stop this mind numbing square and back passing. It is no use having 60% possession if 60% of that is in your own half. MON needs to stop being negative and send set us up to look forward and win. Why Mikel and Clucas are considered a better bet than Thompson and Cousins only MON knows.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 23, 2021 13:56:48 GMT
FFP gets mentioned a lot on here but the point is still valid. Though not all of the money will be available after contracts expire but for Shawcross’ wages we could get two Souttars, two Collins and still have change. For Allen’s wages we could get five Cousins! Vokes is on over double Campbell. Then there’s Wimmer, Bauer, Ince and whatever we might still be contributing towards Ndiaye, Etebo and BMI which altogether is likely above £100k a week. We’ll be recovering from this mess for a lot longer yet. Now I wonder who negotiated those contracts presumably the defence is the manager at the time as we know the ceo gets paid his 800k but actually the manager is responsible for everything that goes wrong .
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Post by HarryTheHat on Jan 23, 2021 14:08:18 GMT
IMHO MON has earned the right to be cut some slack. We were not thrashed by Watford had we been more positive and scored when we were on top it could have been a different story. We need to be more aggressive and stop this mind numbing square and back passing. It is no use having 60% possession if 60% of that is in your own half. MON needs to stop being negative and send set us up to look forward and win. Why Mikel and Clucas are considered a better bet than Thompson and Cousins only MON knows. He can be cut some slack but he can't have a free ride forever - this is largely the side that he has built and if we're not careful it will go on for too long and it will be too late. Just like Mark Hughes and the "three 9th placed finishes" apologists that shouted down any suggestion that he should be gone - look how that worked out for us. You're only as good as your last run of games and at the moment MON isn't very good - not saying that we take the Watford/Leeds model and get through an inordinate amount of managers every couple of years but having said that it hasn't done them too much harm. MON needs this season and the first 3 months of next season - if we're not in the top 6 by December 2021 then he needs to be gone
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Post by scfcwebby on Jan 23, 2021 14:13:46 GMT
Calling for him to be sacked is daft, BUT... He is not above criticism, and some of the responses from posters on here in response to others that are not happy with certain things is childish at best, message boards are for people to put their opinions across and discuss/debate. Some of the (sometimes personal) abuse of others because they don't share the same view is ridiculous.
For my 2 penneth worth...
I am bitterly disappointed with some things that I'm having to watch every week, I am not a manager on thousands a week but I can see blatant errors that are being made along with thousands of other fans and its beginning to grate.
It has been done to death Already but, negative tactics, playing players on name not form, poor substitutes (sometimes mind boggling) waiting too long to make subs, having no plan B, not getting a striker in that we desperately need, playing formations that don't suit us (previously), dare I mention... Verlinden
There are also some really good things that he's doing, blooding youngsters in gradually, steadied the ship and stopped the rot, trying to shift dead weight (seems an impossible task)
Im a firm believer that when a manager/player/chairman etc is doing well then they should be congratulated, praised and held on a pedestal but they should/can also be critisized when things don't go well. This isn't a 2 or 3 game blip, this is 1 win in 12 and alot of that IMO can be placed at MON's door. Does that mean I want him sacked? Definitely not, that's ridiculous. Do I want him to see his flaws and rectify them? Yes 100% I do, we are a team that should be performing much higher than we are and O'Neil is more than capable of leading us there, so grow a pair and take us there
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Post by dan55 on Jan 23, 2021 14:45:20 GMT
I rate him. Tyrese is a big hit, probably stopped any promotion hope. But MON will sort it. I think he's our best manager since Hughes.
Won't do any good whatsoever keep chopping and changing managers all the time. He's steadied the ship, we are alot better than last season. Just be patient.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 14:55:00 GMT
I rate Michael but the football is garbage. In the last 10 games I can honestly say only some football against Blackburn was decent. The rest we look very average, laboured football. Last night we ran around and did very little. No pace, no ideas, no plan. He has improved the team but the football is dross. Hopefully things will change when we get abit of pace ie. Campbell and Doughty. We are sliding down and will continue to do so as we dont have anymore than a goal a game in his system.
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