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Post by chuckrocky on Jan 23, 2021 10:29:22 GMT
No I don’t think those players are good enough. But the rest of the squad are more than good enough at this level. The players he currently has available should be doing much better. We shouldn’t be going into games against bang average opposition with the mentality of trying not to lose. We were scoring goals for fun when O’Neil first took over and that was with this group of players we currently have. And he wasn’t even playing Campbell so we can’t keep using his absence as an excuse. O’Neil had this same group of players minus his new signings showing play off form last season. So all this bollocks about the squad not being good enough just doesn’t wash with me. Thats the problem with the injury of our best striker and with all the injuries we've had with the exception of Powell we are an average side. I had cut him slack with the injuries and could accept us trying to grind out results. With the majority back from injury now I haven’t seen anything to suggest our mentality of trying to grind out results is going to change. Campbell is a huge loss but one player missing shouldn’t affect the side as much as it does. He needs to find a way to make us more creative. We looked dangerous at Rotherham when we went behind and had to attack and the the same last night. We just don’t start games on the front foot and looking to create chances.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 23, 2021 10:30:04 GMT
This explanation is getting old. It still holds, while those players are still on our books, but it's 3-5 years down the line now. O'Neill knew what he was getting into, as he has confirmed frequently in interviews. He's been in the job over a year now, but I'm still not really sure what an O'Neill team is. It's getting old but it's still relevant? ??? It is still relevant and it has hampered him of course but his greatest characteristic is his ruthlessness. This is his team playing his way and its, well, a bit frigging shit.
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Post by ryd1967 on Jan 23, 2021 10:32:15 GMT
If your not satisfied f*** off up the Vale. Shit bin. Why because people care about their club , if you’re happy with how things are I suggest you fuck off up the Vale as you’re the one who does give a shit I am not happy with what's going on but I am a realist. We are much better off than this time last year. Rome wasn't built in a day. Did you honestly think we would higher up the table. I have been going since 1975 and seen worse. Getting rid now would be a disaster.CTID.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 23, 2021 10:32:55 GMT
He's kind of been the opposite of what I expected. He's brought through some youngsters but I thought he'd pull out some golden nuggets on a shoe string in the transfer market but hand on heart among all his many signings are any of them any good at all? None of them look any good at football to me which is kind of the minimum requirement. Fletcher on a free is a great signing. Thompson for 500k looks like a solid piece of business as well. He's improved a lot in 12 months and is probably a decent mid-table Championship player now. You pay at least £2 million for that kind of player normally. Mikel on a free hasn't been a bad stop-gap at all (although he's being over used now). Chester on a free has been OK- an improvement on Batth anyway and MON speaks highly of his impact on the dressing room. Oakley-Booth I'm not impressed with but he's young and didn't cost much. Brown is the only really poor one for me. We've had worse, but don't think we'd get seven figures if we tried to sell him. This is the kind of market he's operating in. Old players on short term deals, loans and gambles on untried youngsters. It sounds like you're having a pop at him for not being able to turn water into wine. Edit- forgot Fox...probably the best signing of the lot on a free.
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Post by franklin on Jan 23, 2021 10:35:34 GMT
It's getting old but it's still relevant? ??? It is still relevant and it has hampered him of course but his greatest characteristic is his ruthlessness. This is his team playing his way and its, well, a bit frigging shit. Absolutely spot on.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 23, 2021 10:36:44 GMT
It's getting old but it's still relevant? ??? It is still relevant and it has hampered him of course but his greatest characteristic is his ruthlessness. This is his team playing his way and its, well, a bit frigging shit. Another way of thinking about this is that here is a guy who has only been in League Management for just over a year. I don't think managing NI is comparable nor his other jobs. So isn't the guy therefore still learning? For someone who has been in league management for such a short time he's not got a bad track record at all. But surely it takes time, how many managers hit the management floor running and are able to sustain it, this is his first bad patch so we will see how he responds.
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Post by claymore on Jan 23, 2021 10:37:28 GMT
It's not really working under MON, maybe time to replace one Irishman for another, big Jim Gannon 🔵⚪ is on the market and has experience in managing at the Vale ⚫⚪, sounds a marriage made in heaven, could come in useful for the upcoming potteries league derbys over the next few seasons.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 23, 2021 10:38:33 GMT
It's getting old but it's still relevant? ??? It is still relevant and it has hampered him of course but his greatest characteristic is his ruthlessness. This is his team playing his way and its, well, a bit frigging shit. It's not his team yet by a long way. Once he's not being weighted down by the likes of Vokes, Wimmer, Bauer, Ince, etc etc etc then we'll be able to say it's his team. He's had a charity shop budget but for some reason people are expecting Harrods. What he's done so far is plugged leaks and gaping holes with cheap signings, and most of them have been OK. Considering the absolute colossal mess that was created, by rights we should be in Sunderland's position now or even worse. The fact we're even huffing and puffing around in mid-table is impressive considering what he walked into.
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Post by flea79 on Jan 23, 2021 10:38:34 GMT
I like MON but the more I see the less I think he'll ever get us promoted. He doesn't have the know how or mindset to to win enough games to get a team promoted. We'll just be a good championship team flirting with the play offs but on the upside he'll do it on the cheap. This is his first sull season so I’m afraid you don’t really have a large enough sample size to guage how far he can take us. We have taken a massive step up from the previous two seasons in this league. I truly don’t understand some fans. We finally have someone who seems to be a proper manager and some actually want him out after a mediocre Christmas period. You have to give the bloke time and by time I genuinely do mean at least 2 full seasons to actually gauge where we are. So if we are still shit in 12 months are we allowed to moan then?
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 23, 2021 10:40:59 GMT
The guy is out of his depth he has managed Brechin city and shamrock rovers ffs what on earth is he doing here...only reason he's cheap and a yes man to coates/Scholes..we are only going one way with this shower and their abysmal signings...one win in 13 how is this guy in a job ..sack the lot Bullshit!
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 23, 2021 10:41:42 GMT
This is his first sull season so I’m afraid you don’t really have a large enough sample size to guage how far he can take us. We have taken a massive step up from the previous two seasons in this league. I truly don’t understand some fans. We finally have someone who seems to be a proper manager and some actually want him out after a mediocre Christmas period. You have to give the bloke time and by time I genuinely do mean at least 2 full seasons to actually gauge where we are. So if we are still shit in 12 months are we allowed to moan then? Can you wait that long?
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Post by franklin on Jan 23, 2021 10:42:26 GMT
This is his first sull season so I’m afraid you don’t really have a large enough sample size to guage how far he can take us. We have taken a massive step up from the previous two seasons in this league. I truly don’t understand some fans. We finally have someone who seems to be a proper manager and some actually want him out after a mediocre Christmas period. You have to give the bloke time and by time I genuinely do mean at least 2 full seasons to actually gauge where we are. So if we are still shit in 12 months are we allowed to moan then? Apparently not you'll be labeled and told you're not a real fan.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 23, 2021 10:43:18 GMT
It is still relevant and it has hampered him of course but his greatest characteristic is his ruthlessness. This is his team playing his way and its, well, a bit frigging shit. It's not his team yet by a long way. Once he's not being weighted down by the likes of Vokes, Wimmer, Bauer, Ince, etc etc etc then we'll be able to say it's his team. He's had a charity shop budget but for some reason people are expecting Harrods. What he's done so far is plugged leaks and gaping holes with cheap signings, and most of them have been OK. Considering the absolute colossal mess that was created, by rights we should be in Sunderland's position now or even worse. The fact we're even huffing and puffing around in mid-table is impressive considering what he walked into. I think he rates Vokes. He started the season with him as his main striker. Only an absolute loon would want him gone bit this Messiah stuff is getting a bit wearisome. He's doing OK but he makes a hell of a lot of errors and it's a painful, painful, watch most of the time.
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Post by dave1 on Jan 23, 2021 10:44:05 GMT
I got lynched last week for starting a thread saying time to get on the phone to TP.
Now more than ever, pick up that phone JC! Our mesiah is waiting!!!
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Post by questionable on Jan 23, 2021 10:48:04 GMT
To be honest I’m sick of we’ve lost Campbell, doesn’t compensate for shocking at time mind blowing shit defending, non existent midfield, no goals from midfield, yes we’ve lost Campbell but it doesn’t mean we’ve got to defend at all cost, sit back for 60 minutes then, err well inevitably concede.
It’s not as if Campbell was injured yesterday, MON has had time to adapt tactics wise but still insanely sits back, Clucas was our top scorer last season ?? but looks nowhere near like scoring, again tactics.
Results will pick up when our opposition are safe in the league and take their foot of the pedals, problem is we can’t put our foot on the pedal when MON firmly has his foot on the brakes, bog bog standard manager.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 23, 2021 10:48:43 GMT
It's not his team yet by a long way. Once he's not being weighted down by the likes of Vokes, Wimmer, Bauer, Ince, etc etc etc then we'll be able to say it's his team. He's had a charity shop budget but for some reason people are expecting Harrods. What he's done so far is plugged leaks and gaping holes with cheap signings, and most of them have been OK. Considering the absolute colossal mess that was created, by rights we should be in Sunderland's position now or even worse. The fact we're even huffing and puffing around in mid-table is impressive considering what he walked into. I think he rates Vokes. He started the season with him as his main striker. Only an absolute loon would want him gone bit this Messiah stuff is getting a bit wearisome. He's doing OK but he makes a hell of a lot of errors and it's a painful, painful, watch most of the time. Not good to watch, can't argue with that, but this is going to take years to sort out- and I mean years. As long as all that expensive shit is on the books, keeping us in the top half is absolutely fine, however he does it.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 23, 2021 10:51:00 GMT
So if we are still shit in 12 months are we allowed to moan then? Apparently not you'll be labeled and told you're not a real fan. Are you really that interested in what other people think?
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Post by franklin on Jan 23, 2021 10:51:16 GMT
I got lynched last week for starting a thread saying time to get on the phone to TP. Now more than ever, pick up that phone JC! Our mesiah is waiting!!! Its not beyond the realms of possibility MON seems like a nice chap but his players seem to be taking the piss.
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Post by christhepotter on Jan 23, 2021 10:51:19 GMT
Why because people care about their club , if you’re happy with how things are I suggest you fuck off up the Vale as you’re the one who does give a shit I am not happy with what's going on but I am a realist. We are much better off than this time last year. Rome wasn't built in a day. Did you honestly think we would higher up the table. I have been going since 1975 and seen worse. Getting rid now would be a disaster.CTID. I’ve been going 40+ years myself , with the squad we have play offs should be the least we finish , I’ve not said get rid but he needs improve and improve soon
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 23, 2021 10:54:42 GMT
Unbelievable. Saw murmurings about sacking him on twitter as well. I must have wandered into a parallel universe. I don't want him sacked, I'm just being realistic about thd job he'll do here. People say he's slowly building for the future but when you've signed Mikel, Chester and Fletcher well into their 30s and you're signing loan players who'll go back to their parent clubs in a few months, I don't see that being the case. Brown and TOB aren't up to the standard so you can say only Fox and Thompson are signings that build for the future out of the 3 windows he's had. He doesn't have the experience at club level to get a team promoted and it is starting to show.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 23, 2021 10:55:22 GMT
It is still relevant and it has hampered him of course but his greatest characteristic is his ruthlessness. This is his team playing his way and its, well, a bit frigging shit. Another way of thinking about this is that here is a guy who has only been in League Management for just over a year. I don't think managing NI is comparable nor his other jobs. So isn't the guy therefore still learning? For someone who has been in league management for such a short time he's not got a bad track record at all. But surely it takes time, how many managers hit the management floor running and are able to sustain it, this is his first bad patch so we will see how he responds. He's got all the time in the world unless we really plummet but I don't really buy this inexperienced line mate. He's been in the game 35 years and in management for 15. He's been dealt a rough hand in terms previous managers ineptness, the fallout of 'the process' and a farcical run of injuries but that doesn't mean we're not underperforming. We really are now.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 23, 2021 11:00:22 GMT
We can't afford to sack another manager.
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Post by banksisgod on Jan 23, 2021 11:00:35 GMT
Reading some of the stuff on here reminds me of the parable of the young bull and the old bull. The young bull says "Dad, let's run down to the end of the field and ride a cow"!! To which the old bull replied, "I have a better idea, son; let's stroll down, and ride them all"!!
It's hard to fathom the impatience of some people; twelve months ago, we were still staring relegation (and financial Armageddon) in the face, and MO'N performed some kind of miracle to save us. Probably the worst thing that could happen to us this year would be to get promoted. We're not ready; no-where near it. But, in young players like Bursik (a great talent, in spite of recent mistakes), Souttar, Collins (a "superstar in the making"), Campbell (ditto), and a bunch of others, and, crucially, the manager's willingness to play them, we have the cornerstones of a really good side in two or three years time. I'm not going to pretend that I know what MO'N's plan is, but it wouldn't surprise me if he regards this season as one of consolidation; one where he is introducing new elements (such as pace), and tinkering with different systems. No-one, least of all him, could have anticipated the crippling level of injuries that we have had in key areas, not least up front.
Having experienced the Premier League over an extended period of time, no doubt there are fans who still see us as a Premier Side, who happen to be in the wrong league, and there is an impatience to get back there (hence the bull analogy!). But there's no point if we would come straight back down, and possibly with a paltry points total. Furthermore, as is often the case, we'd sack the manager somewhere along the way. By the time he left, I had had enough of Pulis, but when he got us promoted, he ensured that we brought something unique to the Premier League; something that the incumbents were not ready for. We had a bunch of huge, physical players, all masters of the "dark arts", a sprinkling of talented "waifs and strays" who had, for one reason or another, lost their way - Etherington, Pennant, Fuller etc. - and, of course, Delap, without whom, I would contend, we would never have survived. This time around, when it happens - and, in my bones, I truly believe it will - we would have Delap, or any other element of surprise. We will need to be able to play a similar brand of football, better than at least three other teams.
Personally, I have huge faith in Michael O'Neill, and that, given time, he will get us promoted at a time when we are ready to make a good fist at survival. I also feel that the biggest danger is that he might be prized away from us by a Celtic or a premier club in trouble.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 23, 2021 11:00:37 GMT
He's kind of been the opposite of what I expected. He's brought through some youngsters but I thought he'd pull out some golden nuggets on a shoe string in the transfer market but hand on heart among all his many signings are any of them any good at all? None of them look any good at football to me which is kind of the minimum requirement. Fletcher on a free is a great signing. Thompson for 500k looks like a solid piece of business as well. He's improved a lot in 12 months and is probably a decent mid-table Championship player now. You pay at least £2 million for that kind of player normally. Mikel on a free hasn't been a bad stop-gap at all (although he's being over used now). Chester on a free has been OK- an improvement on Batth anyway and MON speaks highly of his impact on the dressing room. Oakley-Booth I'm not impressed with but he's young and didn't cost much. Brown is the only really poor one for me. We've had worse, but don't think we'd get seven figures if we tried to sell him. This is the kind of market he's operating in. Old players on short term deals, loans and gambles on untried youngsters. It sounds like you're having a pop at him for not being able to turn water into wine. Great post.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 23, 2021 11:04:58 GMT
Unbelievable. Saw murmurings about sacking him on twitter as well. I must have wandered into a parallel universe. I don't want him sacked, I'm just being realistic about thd job he'll do here. People say he's slowly building for the future but when you've signed Mikel, Chester and Fletcher well into their 30s and you're signing loan players who'll go back to their parent clubs in a few months, I don't see that being the case. Brown and TOB aren't up to the standard so you can say only Fox and Thompson are signings that build for the future out of the 3 windows he's had. He doesn't have the experience at club level to get a team promoted and it is starting to show. Signed Mikel with a view to Sorensen coming back into the fold next season perhaps, signed Chester with a view to Collins becoming our first choice centre half next season etc etc. It’s really not as black and white as you suggest, let’s be blunt until the majority of our overpaid squad’s contracts expire (the majority of which are 2022) we are limited to how quickly things can evolve.......
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Post by shrewspotter on Jan 23, 2021 11:10:28 GMT
He’s got another 12 months before I start questioning his position. All this nonsense about FFP and being hampered by previous managers poor business doesn’t wash with me because I still think we’ve got a very decent side for this league. Yes we would like a striker that can score us 20 goals but so does pretty much every other side in the league. My biggest concern is despite our decent form around Oct/Nov we have generally been poor in most games. I can only think of the Brentford game where we’ve managed to put two decent halves of football together. There’s absolutely no doubt that the managers negativity is holding us back at the moment. The longer he leaves the shackles on the more fans will start turning on him. but he didn’t inherit a decent side did he else we wouldn’t have been bottom of the table Do you not think that without our bomb squad players we would have somewhere in the region of 250k per week ( only a guess). With that additional money we could get the striker we need We have to be patient I’m afraid
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Post by shrewspotter on Jan 23, 2021 11:14:52 GMT
I got lynched last week for starting a thread saying time to get on the phone to TP. Now more than ever, pick up that phone JC! Our mesiah is waiting!!! thankfully we have a chairman that is a bit more grounded than your good self who realizes that these things take time and under MON we have improved
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 11:18:33 GMT
This explanation is getting old. It still holds, while those players are still on our books, but it's 3-5 years down the line now. O'Neill knew what he was getting into, as he has confirmed frequently in interviews. He's been in the job over a year now, but I'm still not really sure what an O'Neill team is. It's getting old but it's still relevant? ??? Of course they are still there, earning their wages, but you can't stay stuck with old mistakes. It is what it is. You have to move forward with what you have. Other clubs do better with less.
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Post by staffordstokiemad1 on Jan 23, 2021 11:20:18 GMT
I think I need a break from this place, it’s doing my fucking head in. 🏳🤦🏻♂️ 100% thinking the same, imagine a manager saving us from relegation, moving on dead wood, blooding youngsters into the team, getting us top half the table all in a little over 12 months, and then coming on here and seeing fans calling for him to be sacked.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 23, 2021 11:31:31 GMT
I got lynched last week for starting a thread saying time to get on the phone to TP. Now more than ever, pick up that phone JC! Our mesiah is waiting!!! Its not beyond the realms of possibility MON seems like a nice chap but his players seem to be taking the piss. TBF to MON he steadied the ship and got us out of almost certain relegation last season, this season he appears to have been found out his limitations and lack of managerial experience at this level have become evident, we will see how he manages this slump.
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