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Post by bloodtypered on Dec 5, 2020 23:09:51 GMT
It's about time it stopped. It's run it's course now and people are getting fed up of it. Same with rainbows
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 5, 2020 23:13:31 GMT
Full respect to this lad and his family. His father made such a difference to the direction of British music - for that I’ll be always grateful. Didn't realise who his dad was, every day's a school day..... Who’s his dad? I couldn’t make it out from the article
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 5, 2020 23:17:01 GMT
Didn't realise who his dad was, every day's a school day..... Who’s his dad? I couldn’t make it out from the article Jazzie B, Soul II Soul founder.....
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Post by ab61 on Dec 5, 2020 23:19:36 GMT
This is kinda heading towards non football related. Needs to be moved now 👍
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Post by kerouac on Dec 5, 2020 23:20:15 GMT
Who’s his dad? I couldn’t make it out from the article Jazzie B, Soul II Soul founder..... Went to their nights at The Brixton Fridge years ago....special times.
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Post by neckender78 on Dec 5, 2020 23:22:52 GMT
The knee should of been kept out of Sport in England. The BLM movement has caused more racial division this year in England than anything before. People haven't forgotten defacing and attacking war memorials, attacking and wanting to defund the police and many messages that would be classed as racist the other way round. Most people want equality, but the knee symbol is linked to the BLM and a reaction was always going to happen when fans were back. A knee shouldn't be taken to mob rule. Something else is needed as a symbol or message from kick it out for equality that is distanced from the BLM movement that many people who won't support the BLM will support.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 5, 2020 23:35:12 GMT
The knee should of been kept out of Sport in England. The BLM movement has caused more racial division this year in England than anything before. People haven't forgotten defacing and attacking war memorials, attacking and wanting to defund the police and many messages that would be classed as racist the other way round. Most people want equality, but the knee symbol is linked to the BLM and a reaction was always going to happen when fans were back. A knee shouldn't be taken to mob rule. Something else is needed as a symbol or message from kick it out for equality that is distanced from the BLM movement that many people who won't support the BLM will support. What about the needs of the many football players who obviously see the knee as an important anti-discrimination symbol which they deem as a progressive step towards contributing towards more positive social, community and working environments. That can't be described as mob rule surely? Please explain why you think their needs and concerns should not be considered? Football clubs and players have already distanced the knee from the BLM movement yet so many people are still not satisfied? Millwall did it just before their game, yet that didn't stop many of their so called fans, so it's not clearly just about the BLM. That seems to be a smokescreen in this case.
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Post by sergeishtaniuk on Dec 5, 2020 23:39:24 GMT
The knee should of been kept out of Sport in England. The BLM movement has caused more racial division this year in England than anything before. People haven't forgotten defacing and attacking war memorials, attacking and wanting to defund the police and many messages that would be classed as racist the other way round. Most people want equality, but the knee symbol is linked to the BLM and a reaction was always going to happen when fans were back. A knee shouldn't be taken to mob rule. Something else is needed as a symbol or message from kick it out for equality that is distanced from the BLM movement that many people who won't support the BLM will support. Imagine actually writing this. "I want equality, but only if people dont protest about it. I'm all for equality, as long as no statues of old racists I'd never heard of dont get spray painted" Our fans are thick as fuck, no wonder this city has voted for the fucking Tories.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 5, 2020 23:43:35 GMT
Who’s his dad? I couldn’t make it out from the article Jazzie B, Soul II Soul founder..... The dude with the pineapple hair?
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Post by neckender78 on Dec 5, 2020 23:45:15 GMT
The knee should of been kept out of Sport in England. The BLM movement has caused more racial division this year in England than anything before. People haven't forgotten defacing and attacking war memorials, attacking and wanting to defund the police and many messages that would be classed as racist the other way round. Most people want equality, but the knee symbol is linked to the BLM and a reaction was always going to happen when fans were back. A knee shouldn't be taken to mob rule. Something else is needed as a symbol or message from kick it out for equality that is distanced from the BLM movement that many people who won't support the BLM will support. What about the needs of the many football players who obviously see the knee as an important anti-discrimination symbol which they deem as a progressive step towards contributing towards more positive social, community and working environments. That can't be described as mob rule surely? Please explain why you think their needs and concerns should not be considered? Football clubs and players have already distanced the knee from the BLM movement yet so many people are still not satisfied? Millwall did it just before their game, yet that didn't stop many of their so called fans, so it's not clearly just about the BLM. That seems to be a smokescreen in this case. Don't disagree with the last points you make but the taking of the knee is directly linked to the BLM in many peoples minds whatever clubs say. Sky say its about racial equity after finally researching the aims of the movement but they still keep their BLM logos on screen. I would like the FA, EFL etc to work with Kick it out to come up with another way that all people can show unity together on the issue away from the knee. My opinion is that 95% of the people who booed at Millwall today wouldn't have done so and would be supportive if the racial equality message was given in another way that didn't involve the knee.
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Post by ab61 on Dec 5, 2020 23:47:54 GMT
The knee should of been kept out of Sport in England. The BLM movement has caused more racial division this year in England than anything before. People haven't forgotten defacing and attacking war memorials, attacking and wanting to defund the police and many messages that would be classed as racist the other way round. Most people want equality, but the knee symbol is linked to the BLM and a reaction was always going to happen when fans were back. A knee shouldn't be taken to mob rule. Something else is needed as a symbol or message from kick it out for equality that is distanced from the BLM movement that many people who won't support the BLM will support. Imagine actually writing this. "I want equality, but only if people dont protest about it. I'm all for equality, as long as no statues of old racists I'd never heard of dont get spray painted" Our fans are thick as fuck, no wonder this city has voted for the fucking Tories. Fancy writing this. Our fans are thick as fuck cos the city has voted for the tories. Kinda makes you look a bit thick bringing politics into it 👍
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 5, 2020 23:55:43 GMT
The knee should of been kept out of Sport in England. The BLM movement has caused more racial division this year in England than anything before. People haven't forgotten defacing and attacking war memorials, attacking and wanting to defund the police and many messages that would be classed as racist the other way round. Most people want equality, but the knee symbol is linked to the BLM and a reaction was always going to happen when fans were back. A knee shouldn't be taken to mob rule. Something else is needed as a symbol or message from kick it out for equality that is distanced from the BLM movement that many people who won't support the BLM will support. Imagine actually writing this. "I want equality, but only if people dont protest about it. I'm all for equality, as long as no statues of old racists I'd never heard of dont get spray painted" Our fans are thick as fuck, no wonder this city has voted for the fucking Tories. You’re right everyone should have a voice but that works both ways. This is why taking the knee should be an individual thing and people shouldn’t be made to it if they don’t agree with it and shouldn’t be in fear of repercussions. I think right now things are on a knife edge and people are in fear of losing their jobs if they question what’s deemed to be right by the mainstream media. Things have got to a pretty serious state when someone’s getting in trouble for using the word “handbags.” For all the kneeling and protesting over the last 6 months has anything actually been achieved in relation to bringing people of all races together. It certainly doesn’t feel like it. If anything relations seem farther apart than ever. Why cant we just be individuals? I really don’t know what the answer is. I think most people want the same thing (equality, peace, no racism) it’s just how we get there. Unfortunately the extremes of both sides are putting a stop to it.
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Post by potterburt on Dec 6, 2020 0:06:39 GMT
Yep, as someone just said, it’s a football game, and skimming the past 5 pages of this forum shouts out exactly why awareness and a stance needs to be taken against racism. Soooooo many comments, of which many I’m sure are said without awareness at all - but even the fact of saying ‘it’s gone on too long’.... perfectly exemplifies the systematic racism.l and issues that need to be re-educated and changed. I kind of agree that taking the knee has been diluted, seeing Harry Kane on FFocus today - and he said it was something he could do for the cause - but it’s a shame when we think that that’s that. We take a knee - I’ve done my bit. Still so far off the mark. Watching Ferdinands documentary the other day and the section on Kick it Out - the general consensus being, it’s a bit of ‘lip service’ - similar can be said for taking the knee - and the fact that people are on this forum saying just ‘it’s gone on long enough’ without any notion of suggestion or inclination as to that there is still so much more to be done - this is the reason there is still so much to be done. The thing with ignorance is that it’s very nature allows for the ignorance to the fact of your own ignorance. I think you’re missing the point that many on this thread (me included) are making. We’re not saying that the push for racial equality has gone on long enough. We’re saying that the players kneeling before matches as an expression of it has gone on long enough. The footballing authorities should try to find other ways of expressing their support of the anti-discrimination cause that better engage with fans as this one is not working very well any more. It’s just further alienating the kind of people who probably most need engaging and educating. Hey, no I do totally get the point of what you are saying and appreciate that is a lot of people’s sentiment - as I’ve expressed in my post. But there’s an awful lot of people (not yourself included) that use the same notion as a facade to something lays deeper and more sinister. I’m not critical of people being critical of the gesture with awareness as to further actions needing to be taken - more just that there’s a many that are critical of the gesture with... well... just criticism. In a naive comparison it’s like publicly vocalising to a wider community that a penny box on a counter at your local shop has gone on long enough because when it first appeared you didn’t want to seem rude and you chucked in a few pence as you felt socially obliged but that charity has probably got enough, I’ve put in a fair few penny’s and now it’s time for it to be gone. - which doesn’t change the issues, doesn’t address them and if the conversation is geared to the fact that it needs to go with suggestions as to what more to be done then hells yes, but if the conversation is just, you’ve had your moment in the spotlight, now move alone- the that is the very issue and reason that it’s such a detrimental issue that needs further conversation, explanation and education.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 6, 2020 0:10:02 GMT
Imagine actually writing this. "I want equality, but only if people dont protest about it. I'm all for equality, as long as no statues of old racists I'd never heard of dont get spray painted" Our fans are thick as fuck, no wonder this city has voted for the fucking Tories. You’re right everyone should have a voice but that works both ways. This is why taking the knee should be an individual thing and people shouldn’t be made to it if they don’t agree with it and shouldn’t be in fear of repercussions. I think right now things are on a knife edge and people are in fear of losing their jobs if they question what’s deemed to be right by the mainstream media. Things have got to a pretty serious state when someone’s getting in trouble for using the word “handbags.” For all the kneeling and protesting over the last 6 months has anything actually been achieved in relation to bringing people of all races together. It certainly doesn’t feel like it. If anything relations seem farther apart than ever. Why cant we just be individuals? I really don’t know what the answer is. I think most people want the same thing (equality, peace, no racism) it’s just how we get there. Unfortunately the extremes of both sides are putting a stop to it. I personally like the sentiment of this post. What I would say is that nobody is forcing players to take the knee now. Clubs and Players are discussing whether they want to do it and how they want to do it, surely that is a good thing, it means that these subject matters are being taken seriously, thought out and then acted on accordingly. The fact that these Millwall fans did not consider or appreciate that the players had themselves made these decision shows their lack of tolerance. Yes you could say they have a right to boo but what kind of message does that send? It's very negative and inconsiderate and comes over as damaging to any kind of progress with regards to racism, that is reflected in the Millwall's players message. It's a few seconds and obviously means a lot to some of those players.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:10:52 GMT
A few clubs have already decided to end this tiresome, irrelevant, empty gesture crap. The rest will follow when proper, full crowds are allowed back. For example, today. I don't think The Guardian got the comments they were expecting
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 6, 2020 0:12:37 GMT
A few clubs have already decided to end this tiresome, irrelevant, empty gesture crap. The rest will follow when proper, full crowds are allowed back. For example, today. I don't think The Guardian got the comments they were expecting Nobody should be surprised by that. I don't think that's anything to celebrate though. The day I ethically and morally ally myself with Millwall fans....please shoot me!
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:14:40 GMT
I think it had its moment but it’s time to call time on it. Even the commentators are lacklustre describing it these days. “The players make their customary gestures, and we’re underway”. It all just feels a bit half-arsed and stale now. What with the rainbow colours and the BLM ident that pops up, I don't know why they don't just shove the football into the bottom corner of the screen and use the rest of it for meaningless window dressing.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:17:16 GMT
What is it Tyler says before a game. It’s not an option, it’s a mandate. Might be for you Martin🤔 No. It's an option. Just like the poppy is.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:19:04 GMT
It made its valid point at the time as did clapping for carers - if Les Ferdinand can see that it’s lost it’s impact and is becoming a token gesture to the point QPR haven’t been doing it for a while then it really is time to move on - but the likes of Lineker want to demonise any dissenting voices and folk who object to this being forced on players and fans alike. To be honest I’ve long been uncomfortable with minutes silences and clapping at matches for all sorts of reasons and the elevation of rememberance day to a somewhat cynical industry of seeing who can mourne the best.......and again demonising any nay sayers who may not wish to adorn themselves with poppies that have been hijacked in the post-Diana grieving as an art form..... If it winds up Lineker it can't be a bad thing.
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Post by potterburt on Dec 6, 2020 0:22:31 GMT
Just to play devils advocate here...
Lots of people saying it should be down to personal preference and the discretion of the individual right?
So... wearing a poppy on a shirt - is a gesture, a symbol, a remembering and support to to a particular time, a moment of history, a collective effort to make something better and to oust the worse.
I don’t know, I don’t follow who posts and who posts what - but I do wonder though how many ripped into McClean for choosing - for having a ‘personal’ / ‘political’ / ‘cultural’ preference’, for opting out of that ‘gesture’... who are also the same ones who are sooo quick to call an end to this ‘gesture’..,, a gesture of which, may i add, that could in 80 years time come to represent just a little stitched emblem on a shirt... but what it means in the grand scheme of things is important.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:23:05 GMT
I've said it before but going on social media and the feeling you get from other places the BLM has probably put racism back decades. It was doing quite well apart from the odd single fan now and then. I was having this conversation on a group chat an hour ago. It's caused more harm than good. People are fed up of it now.
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Post by potterburt on Dec 6, 2020 0:24:55 GMT
I think it had its moment but it’s time to call time on it. Even the commentators are lacklustre describing it these days. “The players make their customary gestures, and we’re underway”. It all just feels a bit half-arsed and stale now. What with the rainbow colours and the BLM ident that pops up, I don't know why they don't just shove the football into the bottom corner of the screen and use the rest of it for meaningless window dressing. Oh dear! you are so unaware that you are being the perfect poster boy for why the knee is such a prevalent and pertinent issue... 🤦🏻♂️
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 6, 2020 0:25:18 GMT
What is it Tyler says before a game. It’s not an option, it’s a mandate. Might be for you Martin🤔 No. It's an option. Just like the poppy is. It’s frightening the lengths these commentators will go to, I mean who is he to say it’s an order to do something politically divisive?
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Post by Gob Bluth on Dec 6, 2020 0:30:00 GMT
I know I’m in the minority but I think it’s a good thing. I’m not 100% sure I agree with some that this is a political thing, to me it’s a request for equality. It’s not about monetary or fiscal policies nor is it a specific request to the government or a political party, I’m sure I’ll be told I’m being naive.
I also think that football is exactly where the BLM campaign should be. I’ve certainly witnessed racism at Stoke but also know that if Fuller or Stein walked in front of these people they’d have stopped their behaviour. Football and our idolisation of players from any background shows how things should be rather than the racist comments that sneak in to opposition players.
Shame on Millwall for the voice of some of their fans and I hope this doesn’t happen here.
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Post by potterburt on Dec 6, 2020 0:30:17 GMT
I've said it before but going on social media and the feeling you get from other places the BLM has probably put racism back decades. It was doing quite well apart from the odd single fan now and then. I was having this conversation on a group chat an hour ago. It's caused more harm than good. People are fed up of it now. Ok thanks so much... let’s all just slow clap you in here... keep that slow clap going, cause the void, The Void!!! Everyone, the void has just vocalised all sentiments, feelings, persecutions, injustices and rounded it up nicely into a group chat that speaking out, trying to change an unjust system, the deaths of innocent people is all fine, because they agreed on the group chat that the whole effort has actually done more harm than good. 🤦🏻♂️ 😢 Pleas go to bed, leave this alone, if you can’t adjust your mind set... it might be safer if you don’t have one.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:30:54 GMT
It's nothing to do with racism. How many more months should this get a platform before every single football game? When, in the entire history of the game, has anything else had such a platform? If people don't want a negative reaction, I have a brilliant idea. Scrap this bullshit. Problem solved. Yeah, give in to mob We've already done that by kneeling in the first place....
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 6, 2020 0:32:10 GMT
You’re right everyone should have a voice but that works both ways. This is why taking the knee should be an individual thing and people shouldn’t be made to it if they don’t agree with it and shouldn’t be in fear of repercussions. I think right now things are on a knife edge and people are in fear of losing their jobs if they question what’s deemed to be right by the mainstream media. Things have got to a pretty serious state when someone’s getting in trouble for using the word “handbags.” For all the kneeling and protesting over the last 6 months has anything actually been achieved in relation to bringing people of all races together. It certainly doesn’t feel like it. If anything relations seem farther apart than ever. Why cant we just be individuals? I really don’t know what the answer is. I think most people want the same thing (equality, peace, no racism) it’s just how we get there. Unfortunately the extremes of both sides are putting a stop to it. I personally like the sentiment of this post. What I would say is that nobody is forcing players to take the knee now. Clubs and Players are discussing whether they want to do it and how they want to do it, surely that is a good thing, it means that these subject matters are being taken seriously, thought out and then acted on accordingly. The fact that these Millwall fans did not consider or appreciate that the players had themselves made these decision shows their lack of tolerance. Yes you could say they have a right to boo but what kind of message does that send? It's very negative and inconsiderate and comes over as damaging to any kind of progress with regards to racism, that is reflected in the Millwall's players message. It's a few seconds and obviously means a lot to some of those players. I agree re the Millwall fans and genuinly feel for the player who posted. I do still think though that there is a fair amount of fear amongst clubs of being judged though it’s a definate positive that some have started to take steps to discuss what they want to do. I think it’s a definate sign of progress that this is happening. I really hope that Rowett doesn’t get hammered by the press for his comments because that will take things back. It’s his opinion in the end and he shouldn’t be punished just because it could be different. to others.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 6, 2020 0:34:59 GMT
It's time it stopped taking the knee for a bloke who died in America is meaningless in the UK. Exactly this. He was a drug dealer to boot. Live by the sword..... Judgemental and heartless crap.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 6, 2020 0:39:01 GMT
Imagine actually writing this. "I want equality, but only if people dont protest about it. I'm all for equality, as long as no statues of old racists I'd never heard of dont get spray painted" Our fans are thick as fuck, no wonder this city has voted for the fucking Tories. Fancy writing this. Our fans are thick as fuck cos the city has voted for the tories. Kinda makes you look a bit thick bringing politics into it 👍 Left wing debating 101
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 6, 2020 0:40:26 GMT
I've said it before but going on social media and the feeling you get from other places the BLM has probably put racism back decades. It was doing quite well apart from the odd single fan now and then. I was having this conversation on a group chat an hour ago. It's caused more harm than good. People are fed up of it now. I totally disagree. That is just a smokescreen. There is clearly a problem with racism in football and society, it been gaining in intensity in over the last few years and players have been targeted every single week before BLM was ever heard of. Why does this current situation resonate with so many black footballers? Blaming BLM is just a way of denying there was ever a problem in the first place. Not wanting there to be a problem should not mean not acknowledging a problem. BLM might not help the problem but neither do racist Millwall fans. Let's not play the game of pretending that Racist Millwall fans exist only because of BLM. Whether BLM is the right way to deal with things is a different matter. Yes they feel threatened by organisations like BLM, (and racism is just that, Fear) but that doesn't make them right or justify their actions.
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