hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 432
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Post by hotpot on Jul 29, 2021 3:23:16 GMT
Now to get rid of Ince next.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 5:42:09 GMT
Post by pottersrule on Jul 29, 2021 5:42:09 GMT
Dreadful signing. Quite why a club that hasn’t played a 442 with genuine wingers since 1988 thought it was a good idea to spend £7-9million on a striker that only does well playing with wingers and a quick player alongside him is mystifying. In different terms Mick. The “club signed” a player for a significant amount of money (EPL standards) and didn’t play a style of football that would give him the opportunity to payback the investment……..it’s the players fault I wonder who next seasons target of the warriors will be? That's already been decided.Jacob Brown!
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 5:43:36 GMT
Post by stokesupporter on Jul 29, 2021 5:43:36 GMT
I'd imagine that eats into a chunk of the money from the Collins deal? If he had one year left and had been at the club for 2.5 seasons, then didn't we need to recover about 2 million to break even for this season? I know that his value will have been marked down because of Covid etc, however I can't see how Wycombe will afford much of his wages and I doubt he's gone there to make a huge loss at 31. I believe Wycombe is paying him about 10k/week, we pay the rest.
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Post by werrington on Jul 29, 2021 6:00:32 GMT
Why the fuck people need to hate somebody just because a transfer hasn’t worked out is beyond me
He hasn’t bad mouthed anybody and he hasn’t bad mouthed the club but some of the wording on this thread is beyond the pale
Grow the fuck up
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Post by wuzza on Jul 29, 2021 7:04:10 GMT
Why the fuck people need to hate somebody just because a transfer hasn’t worked out is beyond me He hasn’t bad mouthed anybody and he hasn’t bad mouthed the club but some of the wording on this thread is beyond the pale Grow the fuck up It’s quite pathetic isn’t it. Seems to bring out the inherent ‘bully’ in some personalities. All that’s happened is we made a signing that didn’t work out - no signs of a lack of effort on the players behalf that I could see so why be abusive ?
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 7:10:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by werrington on Jul 29, 2021 7:10:05 GMT
Why the fuck people need to hate somebody just because a transfer hasn’t worked out is beyond me He hasn’t bad mouthed anybody and he hasn’t bad mouthed the club but some of the wording on this thread is beyond the pale Grow the fuck up It’s quite pathetic isn’t it. Seems to bring out the inherent ‘bully’ in some personalities. All that’s happened is we made a signing that didn’t work out - no signs of a lack of effort on the players behalf that I could see so why be abusive ? The sad thing is it’s not even kids mate The majority on here are grown adults dishing it out
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Jul 29, 2021 7:22:47 GMT
It’s quite pathetic isn’t it. Seems to bring out the inherent ‘bully’ in some personalities. All that’s happened is we made a signing that didn’t work out - no signs of a lack of effort on the players behalf that I could see so why be abusive ? The sad thing is it’s not even kids mate The majority on here are grown adults dishing it out Yes grown adults with mental ages of kids (no disrespect to the majority of kids)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2021 7:25:41 GMT
He was fat. He was lazy. And he was unfit. 3 things he can control. This poor Sam Vokes Schtick from some quarters is strange. He wasn't fat. Look at that photo. He was well built and not a natural athlete. He wasn't lazy. I don't think his effort could be faulted. He ran a lot, closed down, tried to get into positions to score. I'm sure some players in his situation would have found reasons to be unavailable most weeks. What evidence do you have that he was unfit? He had a body frame not suited to running or turning quickly so was never going to be a quick, agile player however much he trained. Club announcements about departures give you a clue to their feelings for a player if you are capable of making inferences from them. In this case it's positive. No I never wanted to see him on the pitch and knew the game was over when he came on but I had empathy for the situation he found himself in something which I suspect a lot of Stoke fans on here lack and prefer to pour vitriol on a man who seems to be a perfectly decent bloke. I prefer to remember him for the goal he scored at Villa. His chin and cheeks look chubby. He was bone idle. Generally stayed in the centre circle doing shuttle saunts. Him not being able to get around the pitch! Him being overweight? I don’t care about the club announcement. He was an awful signing for us who had no redeeming features. The empathy is lacking because he was a lazy good for nothing.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 7:34:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by shrewspotter on Jul 29, 2021 7:34:12 GMT
My monies on Gregory next to leave. Think Ince will stay and so will McClean whose doing his best to alienate himself from all English supporters, therefore unsignable
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 7:56:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by shakermaker on Jul 29, 2021 7:56:04 GMT
Dreadful signing. Quite why a club that hasn’t played a 442 with genuine wingers since 1988 thought it was a good idea to spend £7-9million on a striker that only does well playing with wingers and a quick player alongside him is mystifying. Turning the argument on its head, you’d have thought Vokes himself (in fact, any player) should by their late-20s realise what their strengths are, what systems they perform best in, and their inherent weaknesses. I’d be surprised if any player didn’t thoroughly do their homework on what systems the manager wants to play before deciding to join a club. It’s naive of Vokes in the extreme if he didn’t have any self-awareness of his own skill set. Or maybe he knew of the risks playing under Mad Nath’s diamond and joined Stoke for the relatively decent wages on offer, hoping on a whim the move would work out… which it clearly didn’t.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 29, 2021 7:57:28 GMT
I hope he gets some confidence back and does well at Wycombe. Doesn’t deserve nasty, puerile shit he gets on here.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 29, 2021 7:59:49 GMT
My mate knows Vokes personally and says he’s a great lad. He seems really well liked around the club.
He simply wasn’t good enough for us though, a real disappointment to be honest, but we should never have bought him in the first place, and he definitely seemed to stop trying last season.
Some of the stuff said about him on here is awful though.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:07:15 GMT
Post by drfishy on Jul 29, 2021 8:07:15 GMT
I'd imagine that eats into a chunk of the money from the Collins deal? If he had one year left and had been at the club for 2.5 seasons, then didn't we need to recover about 2 million to break even for this season? I know that his value will have been marked down because of Covid etc, however I can't see how Wycombe will afford much of his wages and I doubt he's gone there to make a huge loss at 31. I believe Wycombe is paying him about 10k/week, we pay the rest. That maybe so but we were never going to get somebody willing to pay all of his wages so even £10k/week removing half a million per year from our wage bill is excellent news with FFP rules hanging over us.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:09:18 GMT
Post by knype on Jul 29, 2021 8:09:18 GMT
My mate knows Vokes personally and says he’s a great lad. He seems really well liked around the club. He simply wasn’t good enough for us though, a real disappointment to be honest, but we should never have bought him in the first place, and he definitely seemed to stop trying last season. Some of the stuff said about him on here is awful though. I think he was a wrong signing at the wrong time for the club and for Vokes personally who albeit never was the most mobile and in his last few years of his career will only get less mobile due to his body shape. I was quite optimistic that he would be a decent signing when we signed him ( again, albeit not what we needed at the time). I have no grudges with him, some signings do not work, not everyone can
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Post by questionable on Jul 29, 2021 8:10:28 GMT
My mate knows Vokes personally and says he’s a great lad. He seems really well liked around the club. He simply wasn’t good enough for us though, a real disappointment to be honest, but we should never have bought him in the first place, and he definitely seemed to stop trying last season. Some of the stuff said about him on here is awful though. The question/flak should be directed towards whoever deemed him a viable transfer target in the first place. Massive transfer fee and tens of thousands per week Al in all sums our transfers up for the past 4 years or so and we’re paying the price now.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 29, 2021 8:10:56 GMT
Certainly in contrast with some of the other top 5 worst signings we've ever made (and you've got to put him up there), he seems a popular figure around the club and well-liked.
It's very hard to say what percentage of the shitshow was to do with us not using a player who needed to be used in a very specific way and had a very limited skill set in the way we needed to (which raises the question why he was ever on the list for a manager who didn't want to use him that way).
What on earth went on in the build-up to the signing with regard to what Jones was looking for and how the player was told we'd use him, God only knows.
But it doesn't reflect well on Jones (or Rowett if he was targeted because we were in a rush and he'd been on Rowett's list because he was as ill-suited to Rowett's lone striker role as Afobe)
Just a bizarre process we seemed to operate with £7m thrown away without apparent thought
But the other factor was his obvious physical decline. He had the look of someone 2-3 years older than he was and looked as immobile as any striker I've ever seen for Stoke. Burnley could obviously see he was very much on the turn physically - and we fell for it
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:15:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by neddy on Jul 29, 2021 8:15:01 GMT
Good luck to him…..we never found out really if he was a Jones signing or Rowett’s that Jones just honoured as he was just coming in and the deal was already done?
In any event he could only ever play in a two and all could see that. Shocking by the club and two managers!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 29, 2021 8:15:38 GMT
Certainly in contrast with some of the other top 5 worst signings we've ever made (and you've got to put him up there), he seems a popular figure around the club and well-liked. It's very hard to say what percentage of the shitshow was to do with us not using a player who needed to be used in a very specific way and had a very limited skill set in the way we needed to (which raises the question why he was ever on the list for a manager who didn't want to use him that way). What on earth went on in the build-up to the signing with regard to what Jones was looking for and how the player was told we'd use him, God only knows. But it doesn't reflect well on Jones (or Rowett if he was targeted because we were in a rush and he'd been on Rowett's list because he was as ill-suited to Rowett's lone striker role as Afobe) Just a bizarre process we seemed to operate with £7m thrown away without apparent thought But the other factor was his obvious physical decline. He had the look of someone 2-3 years older than he was and looked as immobile as any striker I've ever seen for Stoke. Burnley could obviously see he was very much on the turn physically - and we fell for it Yeah think Burnley clearly saw us coming - he was very popular there but they must have seen his numbers were dropping alarmingly. That first injury he had with us really seemed to finish him off - he actually looked ok at the start and scored 2-3 crackers.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:34:39 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Jul 29, 2021 8:34:39 GMT
Dreadful signing. Quite why a club that hasn’t played a 442 with genuine wingers since 1988 thought it was a good idea to spend £7-9million on a striker that only does well playing with wingers and a quick player alongside him is mystifying. Turning the argument on its head, you’d have thought Vokes himself (in fact, any player) should by their late-20s realise what their strengths are, what systems they perform best in, and their inherent weaknesses. I’d be surprised if any player didn’t thoroughly do their homework on what systems the manager wants to play before deciding to join a club. It’s naive of Vokes in the extreme if he didn’t have any self-awareness of his own skill set. Or maybe he knew of the risks playing under Mad Nath’s diamond and joined Stoke for the relatively decent wages on offer, hoping on a whim the move would work out… which it clearly didn’t. I've asked before if Stoke got in touch and offered you a contract better than anyone else you'd say "No actually my style of play doesn't suit the way you play football." I'm sure he had conversations but I suspect Nathan Jones can convince anybody of anything in conversation.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 29, 2021 8:44:21 GMT
He wasn't fat. Look at that photo. He was well built and not a natural athlete. He wasn't lazy. I don't think his effort could be faulted. He ran a lot, closed down, tried to get into positions to score. I'm sure some players in his situation would have found reasons to be unavailable most weeks. What evidence do you have that he was unfit? He had a body frame not suited to running or turning quickly so was never going to be a quick, agile player however much he trained. Club announcements about departures give you a clue to their feelings for a player if you are capable of making inferences from them. In this case it's positive. No I never wanted to see him on the pitch and knew the game was over when he came on but I had empathy for the situation he found himself in something which I suspect a lot of Stoke fans on here lack and prefer to pour vitriol on a man who seems to be a perfectly decent bloke. I prefer to remember him for the goal he scored at Villa. His chin and cheeks look chubby. He was bone idle. Generally stayed in the centre circle doing shuttle saunts. Him not being able to get around the pitch! Him being overweight? I don’t care about the club announcement. He was an awful signing for us who had no redeeming features. The empathy is lacking because he was a lazy good for nothing. You watched a different player to me. I saw a player trying his best to play in a team which did nothing for him. He desperately tried to play a high press when all his career he has played with his back to goal. He is an old fashioned centre forward with a large heavy frame giving him strength to shield the ball. Unfortunately football went a different way during his career. What is the bloke supposed to do? I hope Gary Ainsworth will use him properly. (Off topic, but a very good manager). I suspect you have very little empathy for anyone. Look at the twitter feed from Stoke. There isn't an ounce of fat on his abdomen. As for his chubby cheeks, they're called dimples which some people get when they smile. My son has them and is the skinniest bloke I know.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:46:27 GMT
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 29, 2021 8:46:27 GMT
My monies on Gregory next to leave. Think Ince will stay and so will McClean whose doing his best to alienate himself from all English supporters, therefore unsignable Surely, Maclean is doing his best to ensure a move to Scotland?
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:48:42 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2021 8:48:42 GMT
His chin and cheeks look chubby. He was bone idle. Generally stayed in the centre circle doing shuttle saunts. Him not being able to get around the pitch! Him being overweight? I don’t care about the club announcement. He was an awful signing for us who had no redeeming features. The empathy is lacking because he was a lazy good for nothing. You watched a different player to me. I saw a player trying his best to play in a team which did nothing for him. He desperately tried to play a high press when all his career he has played with his back to goal. He is an old fashioned centre forward with a large heavy frame giving him strength to shield the ball. Unfortunately football went a different way during his career. What is the bloke supposed to do? I hope Gary Ainsworth will use him properly. (Off topic, but a very good manager). I suspect you have very little empathy for anyone. Look at the twitter feed from Stoke. There isn't an ounce of fat on his abdomen. As for his chubby cheeks, they're called dimples which you some people get when they smile. My son has them and is the skinniest bloke I know. I definitely did. There was zero effort. And I'm not arsed about effort but when it's combined with zero talent it bothers me. Fletcher is that too, he's been fine. It's a bad excuse for someone who has been a bad player for us.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:55:43 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Jul 29, 2021 8:55:43 GMT
You watched a different player to me. I saw a player trying his best to play in a team which did nothing for him. He desperately tried to play a high press when all his career he has played with his back to goal. He is an old fashioned centre forward with a large heavy frame giving him strength to shield the ball. Unfortunately football went a different way during his career. What is the bloke supposed to do? I hope Gary Ainsworth will use him properly. (Off topic, but a very good manager). I suspect you have very little empathy for anyone. Look at the twitter feed from Stoke. There isn't an ounce of fat on his abdomen. As for his chubby cheeks, they're called dimples which you some people get when they smile. My son has them and is the skinniest bloke I know. I definitely did. There was zero effort. And I'm not arsed about effort but when it's combined with zero talent it bothers me. Fletcher is that too, he's been fine. It's a bad excuse for someone who has been a bad player for us. Fletcher has far more technical ability and is much better in the air. Vokes is a bit of a pussy cat in the air for such a big bloke. Don't get me wrong I never liked Vokes playing for us and I' m glad I won't have that sinking feeling when I see him warming up but I do think he was wrong man wrong club. That's why I say empathy not sympathy. I don't feel sorry for him (apart from the vitriol which in my book is never acceptable), he was on good money and made the decision to come based on that money I suspect but I can feel for him in the situation he was in.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 8:57:05 GMT
Post by robwahlmann on Jul 29, 2021 8:57:05 GMT
My monies on Gregory next to leave. Think Ince will stay and so will McClean whose doing his best to alienate himself from all English supporters, therefore unsignable Surely, Maclean is doing his best to ensure a move to Scotland? As long as McClean leaves he can go anywhere for my liking! He has certainly burnt his bridges with his employer!
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 9:01:20 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2021 9:01:20 GMT
I definitely did. There was zero effort. And I'm not arsed about effort but when it's combined with zero talent it bothers me. Fletcher is that too, he's been fine. It's a bad excuse for someone who has been a bad player for us. Fletcher has far more technical ability and is much better in the air. Vokes is a bit of a pussy cat in the air for such a big bloke. Don't get me wrong I never liked Vokes playing for us and I' m glad I won't have that sinking feeling when I see him warming up but I do think he was wrong man wrong club. That's why I say empathy not sympathy. I don't feel sorry for him (apart from the vitriol which in my book is never acceptable), he was on good money and made the decision to come based on that money I suspect but I can feel for him in the situation he was in. But half of the argument is that he's good in the air He can't get off the ground when he jumps for crying out loud. An old fashioned targetman that's bad in the air. It just doesn't stack up
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 9:12:33 GMT
Post by robwahlmann on Jul 29, 2021 9:12:33 GMT
Fletcher has far more technical ability and is much better in the air. Vokes is a bit of a pussy cat in the air for such a big bloke. Don't get me wrong I never liked Vokes playing for us and I' m glad I won't have that sinking feeling when I see him warming up but I do think he was wrong man wrong club. That's why I say empathy not sympathy. I don't feel sorry for him (apart from the vitriol which in my book is never acceptable), he was on good money and made the decision to come based on that money I suspect but I can feel for him in the situation he was in. But half of the argument is that he's good in the air He can't get off the ground when he jumps for crying out loud. An old fashioned targetman that's bad in the air. It just doesn't stack up If he is so bad in the air he wins an awful lot of headers I'd say! I'm glad he is gone though because this transfer hasn't been a success for Stoke.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jul 29, 2021 9:17:26 GMT
Good luck Sam, never worked out for him here. What we paid for him wasn't his fault. I hope he scores a hat full for them.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 9:17:34 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Jul 29, 2021 9:17:34 GMT
Fletcher has far more technical ability and is much better in the air. Vokes is a bit of a pussy cat in the air for such a big bloke. Don't get me wrong I never liked Vokes playing for us and I' m glad I won't have that sinking feeling when I see him warming up but I do think he was wrong man wrong club. That's why I say empathy not sympathy. I don't feel sorry for him (apart from the vitriol which in my book is never acceptable), he was on good money and made the decision to come based on that money I suspect but I can feel for him in the situation he was in. But half of the argument is that he's good in the air He can't get off the ground when he jumps for crying out loud. An old fashioned targetman that's bad in the air. It just doesn't stack up He is good in the air heading fwds and glancing headers, he's just not well versed in the dark arts like Fletcher. I suspect he's tough but not prepared to play dirty probably because he's an honest likeable guy.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jul 29, 2021 9:39:39 GMT
I'd say even fat Sam would be an improvement on Akinfenwa. He should do fine at that level if they play to his strengths. Couldn’t disagree more with your assessment of Ade Akinfenwa. He’s had a decent career in the football league. Ok he didn’t do too well in the Championship last season but the bloke is 39. If Vokes is half as good as Akinfenwa was he'll have done ok imo. Are you seriously comparing someone who has played Premier League football and scored goals for his country to a loveable, journeyman footballer like Akinfenwa? All I said was that Vokes was a step up and I would think the vast majority of Wycombe fans would say the same.
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Vokes
Jul 29, 2021 9:39:58 GMT
Post by spiderpuss on Jul 29, 2021 9:39:58 GMT
Vokes, through no fault of his own, summed up our recent transfer years. Overpriced and under-performant, coming into a team that didn't really want to be there. Run by managers that also didn't want to be there. Managers that we're given large sums of money and not having a blind clue how to use it. Presented to clubs that could see that gullible old Stoke were there for the taking.
A very hard way to learn a lesson. I'm hoping such profligacy in the transfer market is not made again.
Good luck Sam.
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