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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 11:02:41 GMT
He's shown he can though. And I disagree, I think it would. When has he shown that he can? Seems to me that after continual bleating about our formation earlier in the season, our style of football is your new stick to beat the manager with. Who’s going to play this possession football you’ve started to crave all of al sudden? All of our defenders are limited in possession and we have a dangerous front three, why not move the ball up to them quickly instead of getting caught in possession like we did to Huddersfield and Reading. Last season. It's something I've been going on about all season All of a sudden? It's something I've always banged on about. Souttar is excellent on the ball and all of our midfielders bar Cousins are too. There's no reason it shouldn't be done.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 24, 2020 11:05:41 GMT
When has he shown that he can? Seems to me that after continual bleating about our formation earlier in the season, our style of football is your new stick to beat the manager with. Who’s going to play this possession football you’ve started to crave all of al sudden? All of our defenders are limited in possession and we have a dangerous front three, why not move the ball up to them quickly instead of getting caught in possession like we did to Huddersfield and Reading. Last season. It's something I've been going on about all season All of a sudden? It's something I've always banged on about. Souttar is excellent on the ball and all of our midfielders bar Cousins are too. There's no reason it shouldn't be done. The football is no different. It’s exactly the same? It seems to me that you are expecting premier performance from a group of championship standard footballers.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 11:12:37 GMT
Last season. It's something I've been going on about all season All of a sudden? It's something I've always banged on about. Souttar is excellent on the ball and all of our midfielders bar Cousins are too. There's no reason it shouldn't be done. The football is no different. It’s exactly the same? It seems to me that you are expecting premier performance from a group of championship standard footballers. To last season? I think it's been massively different yeah. We were a lot more positive last season I think. No I'm not, I'm expecting a team that should finish in the top 6 at least to play a bit better.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 24, 2020 11:14:20 GMT
The football is no different. It’s exactly the same? It seems to me that you are expecting premier performance from a group of championship standard footballers. To last season? I think it's been massively different yeah. We were a lot more positive last season I think. No I'm not, I'm expecting a team that should finish in the top 6 at least to play a bit better. You are seeing something different to me then. Which players in particular were passing the ball last season? Are those same players now hoofing it?
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Post by markby on Nov 24, 2020 13:52:14 GMT
Walk into dressing room. Instruct players to "Play some football". Walk out of dressing room. Win game. Piece of piss. It’s better than the “hoof it lads” instruction they have at present. Right, it's now official - you're a total idiot.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 13:54:56 GMT
It’s better than the “hoof it lads” instruction they have at present. Right, it's now official - you're a total idiot. But that's exactly what we do.....
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Post by femark on Nov 24, 2020 14:00:07 GMT
If we defend like we did vs Huddersfield you mean? Our defence is the one glaring boil on our arse, that could cost us a shot at promotion. We've got back into the swing of scoring goals, fine. But defensively we're woeful at times. Backs-to-the wall we're OK, but in open play, so naive. The full backs are an issue but I think the protection from the midfield is as big an issue. Also they were under a lot of pressure. Keep the ball and that’s relieved. Huddersfield tried to "play football" and "keep the ball" and conceded some daft goals because of it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 14:21:53 GMT
The full backs are an issue but I think the protection from the midfield is as big an issue. Also they were under a lot of pressure. Keep the ball and that’s relieved. Huddersfield tried to "play football" and "keep the ball" and conceded some daft goals because of it. They did but there's a balance to be struck isn't there?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 14:23:01 GMT
MON saying cutting out the individual mistakes will lead to less goals conceded. But when you have poor players like Smith, Fox etc. They will make mistakes far to often.
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Post by markby on Nov 24, 2020 14:47:26 GMT
Right, it's now official - you're a total idiot. But that's exactly what we do..... Oh dear.
I had hoped to avoid a long post, but seeing as you are so obviously wilfully obtuse, then it has to be, so here goes.
When your gk receives the ball, what exactly does "Just hoof it, lad" actually mean?
The same when receiving it in open play as at a goal kick?
Does he hoof it early (to catch the opposition offguard) or delay (until his own players are in position)? Or a mix of both?
Does he play it "three quarters" for players who are mid-way into the opposition half, or "full-on" towards players on the edge of the oppo penalty area?
Does he try to aim for a central striker's head (Fletcher?) and does the striker flick on for a runner to latch onto? Or does the striker instead nod it back to his midfielders, or out onto the flanks? Or does he try to take it on his chest and hold until his teammates take up more advanced positions?
Or might the gk aim instead for the flanks, where his target will have more time and space i.e. away from the crowded centre, where big opposition CB's can punt it back easier?
And what do the rest of the team do when the gk has made his choice? Does the defence push up, in order to support the midfield and squeeze the opposition, all the better to win the second ball? Or do they stay further back, just in case a long clearance by the opposition comes right back at them?
And if it does come straight back, is it primarily the gk's responsibility to come out and meet it, or the defence's to drop back?
And assuming the gk has answered all the above questions, does he keep on "hoofing it" regardless of whether the team is a goal up, a goal down or drawing?
Does he persist right throughout the full 90, when his front players might be fatigued by continually chasing punts upfield? Also when the manager has made substitutions which change the shape of the team?
And all of that is before you consider the set-up of the opposition? What if eg, after 45 or 60 minutes it's obvious that they've cottoned on to your "hoofball" tactic and are dealing with it comfortably? And what does the gk do when the opposition change their tactics, meaning they're posing you different problems to those for which the hoof up top was designed to counter?
All of those are questions which occur off the top of the head of this (unqualified) observer. How much more sophisticated will a highly qualified and experienced professional coach like Michael be in considering them, meaning he comes up with something a damned sight more refined than just "Hoof it lads"?
Of course as you say, you expect Michael "to figure it out soon enough".
But if he only consulted you right now, he'd get it straightaway.
Let's hope there's still time, eh?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 24, 2020 14:50:39 GMT
Huddersfield tried to "play football" and "keep the ball" and conceded some daft goals because of it. They did but there's a balance to be struck isn't there? There's absolutely a balance to be struck, but just by saying "go out and play football lads" it doesn't guarantee success. There's a balance to be struck between attack and defence as well which MON well knows, but he's criticised for lack of attacking threat when he plays 3 a t the back and for defensive frailties when he plays 4. It's not Football Manager......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 14:58:10 GMT
But that's exactly what we do..... Oh dear. I had hoped to avoid a long post, but seeing as you are so obviously wilfully obtuse, then it has to be, so here goes. When your gk receives the ball, what exactly does "Just hoof it, lad" actually mean? The same when receiving it in open play as at a goal kick? Does he hoof it early (to catch the opposition offguard) or delay (until his own players are in position)? Or a mix of both?
Does he play it "three quarters" for players who are mid-way into the opposition half, or "full-on" towards players on the edge of the oppo penalty area? Does he try to aim for a central striker's head (Fletcher?) and does the striker flick on for a runner to latch onto? Or does the striker instead nod it back to his midfielders, or out onto the flanks? Or does he try to take it on his chest and hold until his teammates take up more advanced positions? Or might the gk aim instead for the flanks, where his target will have more time and space i.e. away from the crowded centre, where big opposition CB's can punt it back easier? And what do the rest of the team do when the gk has made his choice? Does the defence push up, in order to support the midfield and squeeze the opposition, all the better to win the second ball? Or do they stay further back, just in case a long clearance by the opposition comes right back at them? And if it does come straight back, is it primarily the gk's responsibility to come out and meet it, or the defence's to drop back? And assuming the gk has answered all the above questions, does he keep on "hoofing it" regardless of whether the team is a goal up, a goal down or drawing? Does he persist right throughout the full 90, when his front players might be fatigued by continually chasing punts upfield? Also when the manager has made substitutions which change the shape of the team? And all of that is before you consider the set-up of the opposition? What if eg, after 45 or 60 minutes it's obvious that they've cottoned on to your "hoofball" tactic and are dealing with it comfortably? And what does the gk do when the opposition change their tactics, meaning they're posing you different problems to those for which the hoof up top was designed to counter?
All of those are questions which occur off the top of the head of this (unqualified) observer. How much more sophisticated will a highly qualified and experienced professional coach like Michael be in considering them, meaning he comes up with something a damned sight more refined than just "Hoof it lads"? Of course as you say, you expect Michael "to figure it out soon enough".
But if he only consulted you right now, he'd get it straightaway. Let's hope there's still time, eh?
We clearly play under instruction to go long. That's about it really.
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:16:23 GMT
Other teams rely on our players mistakes though (according to you the same ones). I'd be certain you're a parody account if you weren't so 'relentless'. Do you ever talk about the actual thread topic? Yes above, keep up.
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:19:13 GMT
He's shown he can though. And I disagree, I think it would. When has he shown that he can? Seems to me that after continual bleating about our formation earlier in the season, our style of football is your new stick to beat the manager with. Who’s going to play this possession football you’ve started to crave all of al sudden? All of our defenders are limited in possession and we have a dangerous front three, why not move the ball up to them quickly instead of getting caught in possession like we did to Huddersfield and Reading. He'll move on to something else if we dominate every game. No I'm not angry and no I'm not a previous poster and yes I contribute.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 24, 2020 15:20:48 GMT
When has he shown that he can? Seems to me that after continual bleating about our formation earlier in the season, our style of football is your new stick to beat the manager with. Who’s going to play this possession football you’ve started to crave all of al sudden? All of our defenders are limited in possession and we have a dangerous front three, why not move the ball up to them quickly instead of getting caught in possession like we did to Huddersfield and Reading. He'll move on to something else if we dominate every game. No I'm not angry and no I'm not a previous poster and yes I contribute. Football manager has a lot to answer for.
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:28:28 GMT
Apart from you know who I'm not sure how anyone's unhappy with how things are going at the minute.
Yes there's minor faults but I've accepted we're not going to get a fully free flowing, dominating every game, not conceeding super power a long time ago.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 15:36:50 GMT
He'll move on to something else if we dominate every game. No I'm not angry and no I'm not a previous poster and yes I contribute. Football manager has a lot to answer for. Oh behave. Football Manager has fuck all to do with it. We need to relieve some pressure from the defence, the best way to do that is to keep the ball. We have the players for it. And if bgreen isn't pwingy then I'm the Pope
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:37:29 GMT
He'll move on to something else if we dominate every game. No I'm not angry and no I'm not a previous poster and yes I contribute. Football manager has a lot to answer for. Very true. That and twitter.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 15:38:41 GMT
Football manager has a lot to answer for. Very true. That and twitter. What? Twitter? What has Twitter got to do with a pretty basic fundamental of football?
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:39:59 GMT
Football manager has a lot to answer for. Oh behave. Football Manager has fuck all to do with it. We need to relieve some pressure from the defence, the best way to do that is to keep the ball. We have the players for it. And if bgreen isn't pwingy then I'm the Pope Zzzz, you can keep repeating it if you like. You could be the Pope, you're as self righteous.
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:40:57 GMT
Very true. That and twitter. What? Twitter? What has Twitter got to do with a pretty basic fundamental of football? It makes spotty teenagers all of a sudden football experts because they follow a few scouts.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 15:42:59 GMT
What? Twitter? What has Twitter got to do with a pretty basic fundamental of football? It makes spotty teenagers all of a sudden football experts because they follow a few scouts. What have scouts got to do with keeping a bit more possession? Nonsense arguments.
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:43:26 GMT
It makes spotty teenagers all of a sudden football experts because they follow a few scouts. What have scouts got to do with keeping a bit more possession? Nonsense arguments. No.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 24, 2020 15:45:18 GMT
Football manager has a lot to answer for. Oh behave. Football Manager has fuck all to do with it. We need to relieve some pressure from the defence, the best way to do that is to keep the ball. We have the players for it. And if bgreen isn't pwingy then I'm the Pope I’m not sure we do have the players. Souttar has shown glimpses that he can pass the ball but the other defenders are awful technically. I’m not sure that Clucas is a particularly good passer and Mikel passes well to a simple standard. You’ve been telling us for years how shit McLean and Allen are and more recently you’ve been telling us how shit Thompson is, so who exactly is going to play this possession based game?
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 15:49:06 GMT
Oh behave. Football Manager has fuck all to do with it. We need to relieve some pressure from the defence, the best way to do that is to keep the ball. We have the players for it. And if bgreen isn't pwingy then I'm the Pope I’m not sure we do have the players. Souttar has shown glimpses that he can pass the ball but the other defenders are awful technically. I’m not sure that Clucas is a particularly good passer and Mikel passes well to a simple standard. You’ve been telling us for years how shit McLean and Allen are and more recently you’ve been telling us how shit Thompson is, so who exactly is going to play this possession based game? But we SHOULD do it apart from all those logical reasons you've just mentioned.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 15:55:09 GMT
Oh behave. Football Manager has fuck all to do with it. We need to relieve some pressure from the defence, the best way to do that is to keep the ball. We have the players for it. And if bgreen isn't pwingy then I'm the Pope I’m not sure we do have the players. Souttar has shown glimpses that he can pass the ball but the other defenders are awful technically. I’m not sure that Clucas is a particularly good passer and Mikel passes well to a simple standard. You’ve been telling us for years how shit McLean and Allen are and more recently you’ve been telling us how shit Thompson is, so who exactly is going to play this possession based game? Smith for all his faults is perfectly fine on the ball. Collins is good on the ball. Davies, Gunn and Bursik are all good on the ball. Batth and Fox aren't granted but of the team that started on Saturday they are the only two I wouldn't trust to pass it. Souttar's passing is very good. Mikel's passing has been excellent. Cluas is a very good passer. Powell is an excellent passer. Fletcher and Campbell are excellent passers.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 24, 2020 15:56:05 GMT
Oh behave. Football Manager has fuck all to do with it. We need to relieve some pressure from the defence, the best way to do that is to keep the ball. We have the players for it. And if bgreen isn't pwingy then I'm the Pope I’m not sure we do have the players. Souttar has shown glimpses that he can pass the ball but the other defenders are awful technically. I’m not sure that Clucas is a particularly good passer and Mikel passes well to a simple standard. You’ve been telling us for years how shit McLean and Allen are and more recently you’ve been telling us how shit Thompson is, so who exactly is going to play this possession based game? Mikel is an outstanding passer in this division. Souttar and Clucas are very good on the ball, and Collins if and when he plays. I still think there’s promise in Thompson, he looks tidy if unspectacular on the ball as well. It did piss me off how much Souttar was lumping it the other day, especially when we’ve seen what he can do when he brings it out.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 24, 2020 16:00:08 GMT
I’m not sure we do have the players. Souttar has shown glimpses that he can pass the ball but the other defenders are awful technically. I’m not sure that Clucas is a particularly good passer and Mikel passes well to a simple standard. You’ve been telling us for years how shit McLean and Allen are and more recently you’ve been telling us how shit Thompson is, so who exactly is going to play this possession based game? Smith for all his faults is perfectly fine on the ball. Collins is good on the ball. Davies, Gunn and Bursik are all good on the ball. Batth and Fox aren't granted but of the team that started on Saturday they are the only two I wouldn't trust to pass it. Souttar's passing is very good. Mikel's passing has been excellent. Cluas is a very good passer. Powell is an excellent passer. Fletcher and Campbell are excellent passers. I don’t think Clucas is a good passer and Smith is just as shit on the ball as Fox and Batth. Powell is a great passer, but we aren’t discussing possession in the final third are we? We have a really good front three and there’s nothing wrong in getting the ball through to them quickly so they can counter attack. Ponderous slow tippy tappy in our own half was a feature of our decline which I don’t miss at all personally.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 24, 2020 16:01:56 GMT
Smith for all his faults is perfectly fine on the ball. Collins is good on the ball. Davies, Gunn and Bursik are all good on the ball. Batth and Fox aren't granted but of the team that started on Saturday they are the only two I wouldn't trust to pass it. Souttar's passing is very good. Mikel's passing has been excellent. Cluas is a very good passer. Powell is an excellent passer. Fletcher and Campbell are excellent passers. I don’t think Clucas is a good passer and Smith is just as shit on the ball as Fox and Batth. Powell is a great passer, but we aren’t discussing possession in the final third are we? We have a really good front three and there’s nothing wrong in getting the ball through to them quickly so they can counter attack. Ponderous slow tippy tappy in our own half was a feature of our decline which I don’t miss at all personally. Why aren't we discussing possession in the final third? I was. We need to keep the ball over and passing for the sake of passing along the back 4/5 isn't what I was on about at all tbh. We don't counter attack.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 24, 2020 16:06:03 GMT
I don’t think Clucas is a good passer and Smith is just as shit on the ball as Fox and Batth. Powell is a great passer, but we aren’t discussing possession in the final third are we? We have a really good front three and there’s nothing wrong in getting the ball through to them quickly so they can counter attack. Ponderous slow tippy tappy in our own half was a feature of our decline which I don’t miss at all personally. Why aren't we discussing possession in the final third? I was. We need to keep the ball over and passing for the sake of passing along the back 4/5 isn't what I was on about at all tbh. We don't counter attack. So are you suggesting that the players are being sent out to “hoof it” in our final third? How does that work? Surely “hoofing it” is a term for defenders hitting long balls up to the forwards? Are you suggesting that Powell, Fletcher and Campbell are losing possession on purpose? How can good passers not pass the ball properly? And your last comment is a joke.
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