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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Nov 11, 2020 10:14:47 GMT
He had to go. Completely unacceptable language. And tbh his record before yesterday was pretty bad.
It's his job to get more women playing football, to close the gap on the bizarre statistic that south asians don't make it into the professional game and to encourage gay footballers to be more comfortable.
I do think some of his defenders secretly back him because they think that women or gay people don't really belong in the game. And although Clarke didn't say it, they admire him for the stereotypes they can use.
Also, the chairman of the FA is a high profile job. He is going to a parliamentary committee that is looking to see if the FA is competent. More than anything he hasn't done his job. He wasn't recorded making these in a bar. He said them for all to see.
And he's not even *that* old I mean he was born in 1957, he grew up in that generation where maybe this was more acceptable but he was one of the young people back then who started to change things.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Nov 11, 2020 10:16:18 GMT
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Post by christhepotter on Nov 11, 2020 10:18:00 GMT
He said fuck all wrong , just shows what a world of snowflakes were becoming , this pc shit is all bollocks , nothing he said was meant to offend Not meaning to offend doesn’t mean you still can’t say something offensive though...... What words worse , fuck or murder , because I’m positive you would rather be fucked than murdered , like I said to many snowflakes take offence far to easily
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 11, 2020 10:22:15 GMT
She's a total moron. Imagine your career plan being to aspire to be a shit Katie Hopkins.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 11, 2020 10:22:39 GMT
I think if we’re going down the road of offensive language I don’t think calling a 63 year old man an “old dinosaur” is particularly pleasant for him. Not a slip of the tongue either, it’s used as an insult🤷🏻♂️
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 10:27:09 GMT
Not meaning to offend doesn’t mean you still can’t say something offensive though...... What words worse , fuck or murder , because I’m positive you would rather be fucked than murdered , like I said to many snowflakes take offence far to easily Eh?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2020 10:33:27 GMT
She's a total moron. Imagine your career plan being to aspire to be a shit Katie Hopkins. She spends her life moaning about people being permanently offended whilst being permanently offended. It must be exhausting for her......
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 11, 2020 10:45:19 GMT
Think we need to become a nation of mutes. That way no one gets offended. Unless hand gestures count.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 11, 2020 10:48:41 GMT
Think we need to become a nation of mutes. That way no one gets offended. Unless hand gestures count. Or we could just try and think before we speak a bit more? Just give that a run out as an idea before running with the whole 'nation of mutes' thing?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 11, 2020 10:50:25 GMT
Not meaning to offend doesn’t mean you still can’t say something offensive though...... What words worse , fuck or murder , because I’m positive you would rather be fucked than murdered , like I said to many snowflakes take offence far to easily To be perfectly honest, if the fucking was not consensual, I'd rather not be fucked or murdered - and I think I'd feel that way whether I was a woman, a man, bi, gay or any other sexuality. And I really don't see why I should be expected to choose one over the other. Sorry if that makes you think I am a snowflake - but I bet there are plenty of people who feel the same way.
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Post by stokeoptimist on Nov 11, 2020 11:26:36 GMT
How often do you hear the phrase, White middle aged men used in a negative context. A statement which is clearly racist, ageist and sexist but never questioned. Common Place on interviews, news reports, QT etc, go figure.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 11, 2020 11:32:31 GMT
I think we’ll end up with a situation where people on both sides of the fence will be actively looking for people with differing views to them to make the wrong comment and get them fired. This could get very ugly with claims and counter claims being fired left, right and centre. At some point every one in life has made a mistake why is an apology no longer not enough?
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Post by thevoid on Nov 11, 2020 11:41:13 GMT
You were doing okay up to and as far as the 'gammon'. Raw meat from the hind legs of a pig that has been cured in the same way as bacon, a pejorative for a white persons flushed face when expressing a strongly held opinion. Clarke's 'coloured' was at worst a clumsy and outdated attempt to be polite, yours is at the very best an attempt to be as offensive as possible to a white person. I fully appreciate the great British working classes are the last group of people you can openly offend in the street and get away with no more than a gentle warning but still, I think you should count to 10 before you use that word in this context. I don't see Gammon as being linked to class, Working or otherwise (and I am more than critical over displays of classism of which I have been on the receiving of myself, but something that pales into insignificance when compared to racist remarks) but rather, it is a remark - and yes, a wholly pejorative one - aimed at men (yes, more often than not white) who get their knickers in a twist over anything from Brussels, people being dismissive of overt displays of patriotism, to more generally other forms of social progress of which they pertain to be at best confused, often simply dismissive of and yes occasionally outraged by, causing that flush of blood to the cheeks. A more recent derivative would be flag nonce. Made me laugh the first time I heard that one. I've seen 'flag shagger' used on Facebook. Ironically, by someone with an EU flag on their profile picture.... 🤔
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Post by christhepotter on Nov 11, 2020 11:43:05 GMT
What words worse , fuck or murder , because I’m positive you would rather be fucked than murdered , like I said to many snowflakes take offence far to easily To be perfectly honest, if the fucking was not consensual, I'd rather not be fucked or murdered - and I think I'd feel that was whether I was a woman, a man, bi, gay or any other sexuality. And I really don't see why I should be expected to choose one over the other. Sorry if that makes you think I am a snowflake - but I bet there are plenty of people who feel the same way. That’s the problem
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Post by thevoid on Nov 11, 2020 11:46:25 GMT
What I do find interesting is people will take the higher ground on issues like this where someone has used inappropriate language yet will openly be abusive / offensive to others using far more offensive language. Stinks of double standards. You’d expect that people who appear to be so moralistic would be good guys across the board. Yet in a lot of cases it’s those that are deemed to be the “bad guys” that are less likely to resort to name calling. When you look at Collymore’s post he’s a perfect example of this. Apparently Collymore has since apologised for this rant and the offence it may have caused btw I'm a bit puzzled with the obsession with Collymore though tbh, a comment from a random ex-footballer who gets very excited on Twitter like many, many other unfortunate souls. Its very easy to find such crazed rants on Twitter, I don't see how this has any bearing on issues with Clarke. If Collymore was Head of the FA, or anyone significant I could understand the obsession with it, but he's not. Because he's a woman-beating scumbag that people will quite rightly hold against him when he tries to claim the moral high ground. I'm not surprised that the 'sins of the past' are forgotten about when it's someone banging a left wing drum though! Additionally, he's made his comments in the public domain with the intention of people reading it, ergo said people have a right to pull him up on any elements of his post that are hypocritical or offensive 😊
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Post by thevoid on Nov 11, 2020 11:49:31 GMT
I think if we’re going down the road of offensive language I don’t think calling a 63 year old man an “old dinosaur” is particularly pleasant for him. Not a slip of the tongue either, it’s used as an insult🤷🏻♂️ Or gammon. An insult based on skin tone (see also choc ice, coconut etc). Double standards at play once again.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 11, 2020 11:52:04 GMT
Apparently Collymore has since apologised for this rant and the offence it may have caused btw I'm a bit puzzled with the obsession with Collymore though tbh, a comment from a random ex-footballer who gets very excited on Twitter like many, many other unfortunate souls. Its very easy to find such crazed rants on Twitter, I don't see how this has any bearing on issues with Clarke. If Collymore was Head of the FA, or anyone significant I could understand the obsession with it, but he's not. Because he's a woman-beating scumbag that people will quite rightly hold against him when he tries to claim the moral high ground. I'm not surprised that the 'sins of the past' are forgotten about when it's someone banging a left wing drum though! Additionally, he's made his comments in the public domain with the intention of people reading it, ergo said people have a right to pull him up on any elements of his post that are hypocritical or offensive 😊 Quite right and it seems his apology has been deemed perfectly adequate. Hypocrisy at its finest🙄
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Post by thevoid on Nov 11, 2020 11:54:20 GMT
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest tbh. I do think there is a breed of folk who just want to be offended by everything on someones behalf. Clarke though has done a triple whammy today. Racism, homophobia and sexism. I think it depends on the country. The term ‘coloured’ ‘ (or colored) has far deeper roots here in the South of the US than it does in the U.K. It’s not the best term to use, but I know that a lot in the US aren’t even aware that it’s offensive. You here it said a lot by high brass and they never get called on it (though they should). The actual quote for choice for gays, I don’t know. In the context of what he said, it felt like a comment on the decision to come out before a game, not on the choice of being gay. The comment on 6 or 7 year old girl goalkeepers not liking a ball being kicked hard at them and preferring to kick a ball, and how the FA must look for new ways to integrate girls into that role is interesting. He perhaps shouldn’t have singled out young girls. It is however, wildly different than the sensationalist snippet that the BBC ran that made it sound like he was talking about adult professional female footballers. Which is why one of the main civil rights groups in the US is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored (sic) People en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACPSo you can see why people might see it as mixed messages coming out....
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Post by Gods on Nov 11, 2020 12:13:49 GMT
I think if we’re going down the road of offensive language I don’t think calling a 63 year old man an “old dinosaur” is particularly pleasant for him. Not a slip of the tongue either, it’s used as an insult🤷🏻♂️ Or gammon. An insult based on skin tone (see also choc ice, coconut etc). Double standards at play once again. If someone calls you 'gammon' he's saying the skin colour of your face looks like cured pig meat, you're quite entitled to take serious offence should you wish !
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 11, 2020 12:46:08 GMT
Or gammon. An insult based on skin tone (see also choc ice, coconut etc). Double standards at play once again. If someone calls you 'gammon' he's saying the skin colour of your face looks like cured pig meat, you're quite entitled to take serious offence should you wish ! Semantics though isn't it? The term originates from the whole 'wall of gammon' thing but it's derogatory towards a mindset rather than an appearance, save for those 12 or so against whom it originated?
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Post by medwaypotter on Nov 11, 2020 12:51:09 GMT
You were doing okay up to and as far as the 'gammon'. Raw meat from the hind legs of a pig that has been cured in the same way as bacon, a pejorative for a white persons flushed face when expressing a strongly held opinion. Clarke's 'coloured' was at worst a clumsy and outdated attempt to be polite, yours is at the very best an attempt to be as offensive as possible to a white person. I fully appreciate the great British working classes are the last group of people you can openly offend in the street and get away with no more than a gentle warning but still, I think you should count to 10 before you use that word in this context. I don't see Gammon as being linked to class, Working or otherwise (and I am more than critical over displays of classism of which I have been on the receiving of myself, but something that pales into insignificance when compared to racist remarks) but rather, it is a remark - and yes, a wholly pejorative one - aimed at men (yes, more often than not white) who get their knickers in a twist over anything from Brussels, people being dismissive of overt displays of patriotism, to more generally other forms of social progress of which they pertain to be at best confused, often simply dismissive of and yes occasionally outraged by, causing that flush of blood to the cheeks. A more recent derivative would be flag nonce. Made me laugh the first time I heard that one. But you don't see it being offensive to call someone a paedophile ? Strange.
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Post by tuum on Nov 11, 2020 12:52:01 GMT
Think we need to become a nation of mutes. That way no one gets offended. Unless hand gestures count. Or we could just try and think before we speak a bit more? Just give that a run out as an idea before running with the whole 'nation of mutes' thing? No problem with this idea and I understand that he has made a number of similar gaffes in the past. What I didn't particularly like was some of the language used to condemn the man. It seemed to me to be way over the top for the level of the 'offence'. Nobody is perfect and these people stating that his language was 'abhorrent' etc should also try and think before they speak.
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Post by Gods on Nov 11, 2020 12:54:30 GMT
If someone calls you 'gammon' he's saying the skin colour of your face looks like cured pig meat, you're quite entitled to take serious offence should you wish ! Semantics though isn't it? The term originates from the whole 'wall of gammon' thing but it's derogatory towards a mindset rather than an appearance, save for those 12 or so against whom it originated? That's probably correct, it would not likely be directed at a wishy washy liberal like me anyway but were it to be and if offence is in the eye of the beholder I know it would seriously grate with me. Lets face it, its not deployed by someone looking to take the heat out of an argument!
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Post by 1982stokie on Nov 11, 2020 14:16:58 GMT
One thing that really annoys me is since all this race issue has become a total obsession, is the amount of time they interview People and they say things like “ the problem with white people” or white people need to understand “ and know one thinks it’s wrong to pigeon hole a certain race of people. why can’t people just treat people as people, if someone is a prick it doesn’t matter what race they are
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Post by noustie on Nov 11, 2020 14:19:10 GMT
Semantics though isn't it? The term originates from the whole 'wall of gammon' thing but it's derogatory towards a mindset rather than an appearance, save for those 12 or so against whom it originated? That's probably correct, it would not likely be directed at a wishy washy liberal like me anyway but were it to be and if offence is in the eye of the beholder I know it would seriously grate with me. Lets face it, its not deployed by someone looking to take the heat out of an argument! In fairness though how can you possibly look to reduce the temperature in an argument if the vast majority of the heat is being emitted via the other party’s face?
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 11, 2020 14:29:39 GMT
My guess is that most people on here saying they don't understand why coloured can be considered offensive are white. We should listen to the people to whom the term refers. If they find it offensive then we should not use it. I believe it has historical roots when it was used to refer to non whites implying that white was the normal colour for human beings. I always used to wonder why people were called coloured when all human beings have a skin colour.
As long as we define people by their skin colour then racism exists. Not the overt hate and micky taking of people of other cultures which most people think of as racism which has decreased immensely over the years, but the type of racism most people don't understand. Making assumptions about people based on their skin colour. Most people including I'm ashamed to say myself have preconceived opinions about people based on their ethnic background. We all need to try to stop and think about our assumptions. I'm sure that there are people reading this who have either joked or had some suspicion of Arabs being terrorists. To my shame while standing in the queue to be body searched before going into the ground I once heard someone shout to his mate, " Look who's searching me. If anyone's going to blow us up it's him." I am ashamed that I didn't say or do anything that day, afraid of what people might say. As far as I know nobody else nearer to the culprit said anything to him or his mate.
Then there are the assumptions we make without really being aware of it. Why are there more Asians in IT? Do employers subconsciously think an Asian will be a better employee in that profession? Do we assume that Afro Carribeans want to be sports stars and are more athletic? Pre conceived ideas are often self fulfilling. Research has shown that the name at the top of an application form or examination paper influences the success or otherwise of it. I believe that some employers don't ask for a name now until the selection process for interviews has been completed.
These are the reasons in my opinion why people of Greg Clark's high profile should be held accountable for their language however innocuous it seems to us.
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Post by questionable on Nov 11, 2020 14:43:17 GMT
Or gammon. An insult based on skin tone (see also choc ice, coconut etc). Double standards at play once again. If someone calls you 'gammon' he's saying the skin colour of your face looks like cured pig meat, you're quite entitled to take serious offence should you wish ! I’m having a nice slice of gammon for tea, at no point will I think it could be used in a derogatory way, not that it would bother me anyway, I bet the pig is the one coming out worse in the whole scenario. 🐖 🐖🐖 🐷
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Nov 11, 2020 15:06:37 GMT
This is getting more confusing ! Here is a job advert from just last week on the website of Kick it Out, the leading football anti-racism organisation in which the term BAME is used. It seems easier to say what language is inappropriate or unacceptable than it is to say what terminology should be used instead. The Guardian article I linked to above, says we need a new political language but doesn't say what that should include. www.kickitout.org/efl-trust-head-of-education-and-employability
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Post by dirtclod on Nov 11, 2020 15:09:31 GMT
Careful....don't want to offend the pig farmers...
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Post by thevoid on Nov 11, 2020 15:10:03 GMT
Or gammon. An insult based on skin tone (see also choc ice, coconut etc). Double standards at play once again. If someone calls you 'gammon' he's saying the skin colour of your face looks like cured pig meat, you're quite entitled to take serious offence should you wish ! Or just use it back on them, as it's usually angry people bandying words like that around 😉
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