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Post by mattyd2 on Nov 10, 2020 18:07:23 GMT
What words are acceptable. Because Black is not actually true, there are many shades of brown, but you would never on this earth call them Brown People. just like Caucasians are not white, we are pink,
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Post by scfc75 on Nov 10, 2020 18:10:48 GMT
Resigned
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 10, 2020 18:12:18 GMT
We beat Reading 3-0 at the weekend also mate š¤£š¤£š¤£
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 10, 2020 18:13:53 GMT
From what I read it seems a bit harsh. He should be conscious of the correct terms to use and not to use considering his role. But I donāt think there was any intentional malice in what he said. The reference to ālife choiceā and homophobia seems quite ambiguous too. I think he might have been referring to people coming out as opposed to actually choosing to be gay. I agree with you to a certain extent about his remark about colour - in the USA the expression "woman of colour" seems to be used by women about themselves as often as the phrase "black woman". Had that been his only gaffe today I'd have had every sympathy with him. But not when it comes to the description of homosexuality as a life style choice. The gay conversion therapy ideas sweeping some of the Christian sects stem from categorising homosexuality as a lifestyle choice rather than a matter of fact. Yes, it is possible to argue that whether to come out or live openly as gay is a lifestyle choice but you would hope that Clarke, in his job, would not talk about BEING gay as a lifestyle choice - if what he MEANT was whether or not a person lived OPENLY as gay. Sorry, but it was part of Clarke's job to avoid making any suggestion that being gay is a lifestyle choice. That said, he has done the honourable thing in resigning- I just hope that his successor is more at ease using acceptable language when talking about diversity and discrimination.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 10, 2020 18:27:14 GMT
From what I read it seems a bit harsh. He should be conscious of the correct terms to use and not to use considering his role. But I donāt think there was any intentional malice in what he said. The reference to ālife choiceā and homophobia seems quite ambiguous too. I think he might have been referring to people coming out as opposed to actually choosing to be gay. I agree with you to a certain extent about his remark about colour - in the USA the expression "woman of colour" seems to be used by women about themselves as often as the phrase "black woman". Had that been his only gaffe today I'd have had every sympathy with him. But not when it comes to the description of homosexuality as a life style choice. The gay conversion therapy ideas sweeping some of the Christian sects stem from categorising homosexuality as a lifestyle choice rather than a matter of fact. Yes, it is possible to argue that whether to come out or live openly as gay is a lifestyle choice but you would hope that Clarke, in his job, would not talk about BEING gay as a lifestyle choice - if what he MEANT was whether or not a person lived OPENLY as gay. Sorry, but it was part of Clarke's job to avoid making any suggestion that being gay is a lifestyle choice. That said, he has done the honourable thing in resigning- I just hope that his successor is more at ease using acceptable language when talking about diversity and discrimination. Genuinely, does anyone know what "acceptable language" is when talking about diversity and discrimination? Seems to me the only way to not fall foul of what is acceptable or not is to not reference such things at all and simply refer to everyone as people. Do that and you'd probably be accused of not giving acknowledgement to those who would be classed as being in a "minority" be that on grounds of colour, sexuality or whatever. Skin colour, race, religion, gender, sexuality don't matter a jot to me. I judge everyone I meet on their merits as a person and I'm fully aware of racism that still exists in today's society. Seems to me, however, that Mr Clarke has fallen foul of almost trying to be too politically correct certainly in the context of referencing non-white footballers.
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 10, 2020 18:27:16 GMT
Oh dear. I predict a riot.
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Post by Goonie on Nov 10, 2020 18:31:18 GMT
Clarke's comments caught on video:
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 10, 2020 18:33:52 GMT
I agree with you to a certain extent about his remark about colour - in the USA the expression "woman of colour" seems to be used by women about themselves as often as the phrase "black woman". Had that been his only gaffe today I'd have had every sympathy with him. But not when it comes to the description of homosexuality as a life style choice. The gay conversion therapy ideas sweeping some of the Christian sects stem from categorising homosexuality as a lifestyle choice rather than a matter of fact. Yes, it is possible to argue that whether to come out or live openly as gay is a lifestyle choice but you would hope that Clarke, in his job, would not talk about BEING gay as a lifestyle choice - if what he MEANT was whether or not a person lived OPENLY as gay. Sorry, but it was part of Clarke's job to avoid making any suggestion that being gay is a lifestyle choice. That said, he has done the honourable thing in resigning- I just hope that his successor is more at ease using acceptable language when talking about diversity and discrimination. Genuinely, does anyone know what "acceptable language" is when talking about diversity and discrimination?Seems to me the only way to not fall foul of what is acceptable or not is to not reference such things at all and simply refer to everyone as people. Do that and you'd probably be accused of not giving acknowledgement to those who would be classed as being in a "minority" be that on grounds of colour, sexuality or whatever. Skin colour, race, religion, gender, sexuality don't matter a jot to me. I judge everyone I meet on their merits as a person and I'm fully aware of racism that still exists in today's society. Seems to me, however, that Mr Clarke has fallen foul of almost trying to be too politically correct certainly in the context of referencing non-white footballers. You are probably correct when you suggest that a lot of people don't know what language they should use in these circumstances. But the head of the FA SHOULD know what language to use. He's the head of a big organisation which is tasked with controlling a game played by hundreds of thousands of (very diverse) people and watched by millions more. Because the average person (including you and I) might find the question of the language to use in diversity discussions tricky, is no excuse for the top man. Being at the top has responsibilities as well as big perks!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 18:34:21 GMT
Good for him. As someone who grew up being called "half caste" because I was from a Burmese family on my Grandad's side I can say categorically it offends me. Just look at the actual meaning for a start: It is derived from the term caste, which comes from the Latin castus, meaning pure, and the derivative Portuguese and Spanish casta, meaning race. Terms such as half-caste, caste, quarter-caste and mix-breed were widely used by ethnographers throughout the British Empire to try to classify "the natives"It should be consigned to the dustbin of history along with the likes of the N word...... I used the term half cast many years ago. I certainly didnāt mean to offend and definitely didnāt know the history. As Iām sure neither did the people who called it you as you grew up. Maybe ignorance I donāt know. But sometimes I think people can be a bit to precious. Just for balance I have foreign parents also. I agree, someone not knowing the full meaning of a word doesnāt make them a racist, absolutely. But most reasonable people like yourself, once they do know cease to use it. As always itās about education, Iāve used words myself in the past I wouldnāt dream of now. But in the public eye itās imperative you choose your words carefully and Clarke has a back catalogue of gaffes that suggest itās deep seated rather than a mistake......
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 10, 2020 18:37:40 GMT
"Half caste" is awful...... Yet he describes himself as it š¤· you can describe yourself however you want.
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Post by Veritas on Nov 10, 2020 18:39:19 GMT
The resignation was not just because if the use of the term coloured, he also said there were more South Asians than Afro Caribbeans in IT departments because they have different career interests and described gay footballers as making a lifestyle choice. Lazy and out of date stereotypes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 18:40:15 GMT
Good for him. As someone who grew up being called "half caste" because I was from a Burmese family on my Grandad's side I can say categorically it offends me. Just look at the actual meaning for a start: It is derived from the term caste, which comes from the Latin castus, meaning pure, and the derivative Portuguese and Spanish casta, meaning race. Terms such as half-caste, caste, quarter-caste and mix-breed were widely used by ethnographers throughout the British Empire to try to classify "the natives"It should be consigned to the dustbin of history along with the likes of the N word...... I know what it means,just saying what my experiences were. Cool, Iām pretty sure knowing the meaning of the word you wouldnāt dream of referring to someone as a second class citizen or not pure if thatās the case.....
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 10, 2020 18:43:04 GMT
I agree with you to a certain extent about his remark about colour - in the USA the expression "woman of colour" seems to be used by women about themselves as often as the phrase "black woman". Had that been his only gaffe today I'd have had every sympathy with him. But not when it comes to the description of homosexuality as a life style choice. The gay conversion therapy ideas sweeping some of the Christian sects stem from categorising homosexuality as a lifestyle choice rather than a matter of fact. Yes, it is possible to argue that whether to come out or live openly as gay is a lifestyle choice but you would hope that Clarke, in his job, would not talk about BEING gay as a lifestyle choice - if what he MEANT was whether or not a person lived OPENLY as gay. Sorry, but it was part of Clarke's job to avoid making any suggestion that being gay is a lifestyle choice. That said, he has done the honourable thing in resigning- I just hope that his successor is more at ease using acceptable language when talking about diversity and discrimination. Genuinely, does anyone know what "acceptable language" is when talking about diversity and discrimination? Seems to me the only way to not fall foul of what is acceptable or not is to not reference such things at all and simply refer to everyone as people. Do that and you'd probably be accused of not giving acknowledgement to those who would be classed as being in a "minority" be that on grounds of colour, sexuality or whatever. Skin colour, race, religion, gender, sexuality don't matter a jot to me. I judge everyone I meet on their merits as a person and I'm fully aware of racism that still exists in today's society. Seems to me, however, that Mr Clarke has fallen foul of almost trying to be too politically correct certainly in the context of referencing non-white footballers. It's his job to know these things, he has been paid loads of money to be chair of an organisation that that has strict codes of conduct when it comes to equality. The least he can do is know how to follow them. He couldn't be arsed despite being paid sheds load. In your job it may not be the case, but in his job it is most certainly the case. He has to resign I'm afraid
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Post by scfc75 on Nov 10, 2020 18:43:04 GMT
We beat Reading 3-0 at the weekend also mate š¤£š¤£š¤£ Get in!!
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Post by leicspotter on Nov 10, 2020 18:51:15 GMT
This may be a case of "straw and camels back" with Clarke's history of, shall we say, ill chosen words. I will admit to being very confused as to what terminology is currently acceptable, not just in terms of race but in most matters, and I have absolutely NO IDEA what cis is supposed to mean, or how to use it.
All that aside, the picture tweeted by Stan Collymore suggests that, whatever Clarke may or may not say, his actions in encouraging diversity within football, and at the top of the FA in particular, do seem to have been pretty ineffectual.
Black footballers have been fairly common in most clubs for around 50 years now, so how come there are still so few in coaching, management and administration? All governing bodies in the sport need to take a long hard look at themselves imho
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Post by mattyd2 on Nov 10, 2020 18:56:43 GMT
We beat Reading 3-0 at the weekend also mate š¤£š¤£š¤£ Do you think That Cuban Missile Crisis could escalate, or will Kruschev back off...
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Post by reddipotter on Nov 10, 2020 18:59:01 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 10, 2020 18:59:13 GMT
We beat Reading 3-0 at the weekend also mate š¤£š¤£š¤£ Do you think That Cuban Missile Crisis could escalate, or will Kruschev back off... This could escalateš
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 10, 2020 19:05:13 GMT
In the overwhelming majority of cases I think I would agree. You can make excuses along the generational line and I've heard my own family members using the term thinking it is 'correct' and then of course context. But when you're chairman of the FA and with all the great work surrounding Black Lives Matter and the Premier Leagues own anti racism campaign he needs to be word perfect on it - especially at a parliamentary committee meeting. Honourable that he has resigned and I don't expect any malice to be held against him. He certainly shouldnāt be made into some sort of outcast. Thereās a chasm between this and what Ron Atkinson said. Totally agree. It's difficult to put into words, 'regretfully' maybe? The right decision but should leave no permanent stain.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 10, 2020 19:08:51 GMT
Genuinely, does anyone know what "acceptable language" is when talking about diversity and discrimination?Seems to me the only way to not fall foul of what is acceptable or not is to not reference such things at all and simply refer to everyone as people. Do that and you'd probably be accused of not giving acknowledgement to those who would be classed as being in a "minority" be that on grounds of colour, sexuality or whatever. Skin colour, race, religion, gender, sexuality don't matter a jot to me. I judge everyone I meet on their merits as a person and I'm fully aware of racism that still exists in today's society. Seems to me, however, that Mr Clarke has fallen foul of almost trying to be too politically correct certainly in the context of referencing non-white footballers. You are probably correct when you suggest that a lot of people don't know what language they should use in these circumstances. But the head of the FA SHOULD know what language to use. He's the head of a big organisation which is tasked with controlling a game played by hundreds of thousands of (very diverse) people and watched by millions more. Because the average person (including you and I) might find the question of the language to use in diversity discussions tricky, is no excuse for the top man. Being at the top has responsibilities as well as big perks! It's an absolute minefield being in a top job for such a media scrutinised outfit though. You can have all the money in the world but one innocent slip of the tongue and its all over. I'm sure him and his family will get a few thousand death threats for good measure. Cancel culture licks balls.
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Post by chad on Nov 10, 2020 19:10:05 GMT
Heās calling for Gary Lineker to take his role. What the. Is a whitesplainer !!!!!! Iāve no idea but I bet a blacksplainer would be racist š¤
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 10, 2020 19:11:46 GMT
The resignation was not just because if the use of the term coloured, he also said there were more South Asians than Afro Caribbeans in IT departments because they have different career interests and described gay footballers as making a lifestyle choice. Lazy and out of date stereotypes. Good day at the office then
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 10, 2020 19:13:33 GMT
Heās calling for Gary Lineker to take his role. What the. Is a whitesplainer !!!!!! Iāve no idea but I bet a blacksplainer would be racist š¤ Yeah what is a whitesplainer? Sounds pretty racist to me. Thankfully it was said by a tosser who no one really cares about.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 10, 2020 19:15:15 GMT
Not sure Stan āthe wife beaterā Collymore would be so selective during his dogging exploits at Cannock Chaseš¤
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Post by Goonie on Nov 10, 2020 19:18:27 GMT
Not sure Stan āthe wife beaterā Collymore would be so selective during his dogging exploits at Cannock Chaseš¤ Did you ever hear him on talk sport when the caller kept making dogging references? 'The referee was barking mad Stan' 'We were winning then wuff we were pegged back' 'We took the lead early on' Pissed myselfš¤£
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Post by spiderpuss on Nov 10, 2020 19:18:42 GMT
Crusty old gammon uses coloured word shocker. No surprise, move on, just like he has.
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Post by Goonie on Nov 10, 2020 19:21:18 GMT
What the. Is a whitesplainer !!!!!! Iāve no idea but I bet a blacksplainer would be racist š¤ Yeah what is a whitesplainer? Sounds pretty racist to me. Thankfully it was said by a tosser who no one really cares about. I assume is a noN-BAME evil person trying to contextualize the lived experience of a BAME person - crucifixion is too good for them I say
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 10, 2020 19:22:16 GMT
Not sure Stan āthe wife beaterā Collymore would be so selective during his dogging exploits at Cannock Chaseš¤ Did you ever hear him on talk sport when the caller kept making dogging references? 'The referee was barking mad Stan' 'We were winning then wuff we were pegged back' 'We took the lead early on' Pissed myselfš¤£ I didnāt but scum like Collymore should never be given a self righteous platform thatās for sure. Beating up several women then taking the moral high ground. How braveš
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 10, 2020 19:23:02 GMT
Yeah what is a whitesplainer? Sounds pretty racist to me. Thankfully it was said by a tosser who no one really cares about. I assume is a noN-BAME evil person trying to contextualize the lived experience of a BAME person - crucifixion is too good for them I say So apart from crucifixion what have the Romans done for us
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Post by danceswithclams on Nov 10, 2020 19:24:26 GMT
I have absolutely NO IDEA what cis is supposed to mean, or how to use it. It's an insurance company pal. Massive towerblock HQ near Shudehill bus station in Manchester.
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