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Post by hardcastle on Nov 2, 2020 13:54:01 GMT
It's a rare game in which Joe's isn't amongst our top three or four performers. I don't get these constant knockers. Do they think every team is composed of ten Bojans?
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 14:05:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2020 14:05:54 GMT
It's a rare game in which Joe's isn't amongst our top three or four performers. I don't get these constant knockers. Do they think every team is composed of ten Bojans? Allen's biggest fault, I feel, is that he lacks a bit of discipline. He has (/had) great energy to close players down. Sometimes it worked really well, other times it just left us very much exposed. I actually felt he worked well in a Number 10 role because his high work rate (as well as McClean's) often disrupted attacks. However, you sacrifice a lot by putting him there. Let's just give him a few games alongside Mikel and see how he does.
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 14:07:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by StaffordPotter on Nov 2, 2020 14:07:42 GMT
As anyone in the world of football will tell you Joe is a cracking player who will be a major asset to Stoke when he's back fit and available for selection. With a decent manager who can hopefully get the best out of him, I for one cannot wait for his return - which can't come soon enough. He really isn't though. He suffers from headless chicken syndrome and contributes very little. I'd get rid of him if possible.
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 14:43:32 GMT
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Post by sensiblestokie on Nov 2, 2020 14:43:32 GMT
Allen and Mikel could be great together. Only issue is I’d play Powell but I want to play Clucas too, headaches for big Mike when he’s back!
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 14:52:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by gingerninja on Nov 2, 2020 14:52:10 GMT
A fit and in form Clucas is vital, his goals could prove crucial in matches which are tight..
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 14:59:23 GMT
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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 2, 2020 14:59:23 GMT
Have to believe with a long lay off we shouldn’t count on much of a significant contribution until March. Even when fully fit it takes time to get back to your top level. And that assumes he makes a full recovery
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 15:02:23 GMT
Post by houstonsteve on Nov 2, 2020 15:02:23 GMT
Nasty injury. Did one myself. No fun to recover from at all, basically your whole leg and muscles deteriorate to virtually nothing from toes to ass. I had a great surgeon and still it was horrible. Wishing Joe a full recovery (not easy). He will be great alongside Mikel and strengthen the squad significantly.
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 15:04:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by wagsastokie on Nov 2, 2020 15:04:21 GMT
It's a rare game in which Joe's isn't amongst our top three or four performers. I don't get these constant knockers. Do they think every team is composed of ten Bojans? Hope not we would be in deep shit with ten lightweight show ponies
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 15:19:25 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 2, 2020 15:19:25 GMT
Allen and Mikel could be great together. Only issue is I’d play Powell but I want to play Clucas too, headaches for big Mike when he’s back! Who's the ball winner in those two though, Allen tried but doesn't do enough he also can't hold shape to save his life, just aimlessly runs around out of position, for me its one or the other and that includes Clucas too unfortunately, we still need a proper DM that can win the ball.
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Allen
Nov 2, 2020 15:22:22 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 2, 2020 15:22:22 GMT
It's a rare game in which Joe's isn't amongst our top three or four performers. I don't get these constant knockers. Do they think every team is composed of ten Bojans? Its got nothing to do with a team of Bojans he's not who you campare him to. Its having a midfield full of the same player and Allen's not even the best we have, we need someone different and as it stands the only player that fits the bill is Cousins but we need a better version of him long term.
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Allen
Nov 3, 2020 15:14:10 GMT
Post by pez75 on Nov 3, 2020 15:14:10 GMT
It's a rare game in which Joe's isn't amongst our top three or four performers. I don't get these constant knockers. Do they think every team is composed of ten Bojans? Allen's biggest fault, I feel, is that he lacks a bit of discipline. He has (/had) great energy to close players down. Sometimes it worked really well, other times it just left us very much exposed. I actually felt he worked well in a Number 10 role because his high work rate (as well as McClean's) often disrupted attacks. However, you sacrifice a lot by putting him there. Let's just give him a few games alongside Mikel and see how he does. Not that old chestnut. Hardly ever been dropped by consecutive managers who have never had a bad word to say about him - that certainly does not suggest a discipline issue?
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Allen
Nov 3, 2020 15:18:11 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 3, 2020 15:18:11 GMT
Nasty injury. Did one myself. No fun to recover from at all, basically your whole leg and muscles deteriorate to virtually nothing from toes to ass. I had a great surgeon and still it was horrible. Wishing Joe a full recovery (not easy). He will be great alongside Mikel and strengthen the squad significantly. It's arguably the worst injury you can still have as a footballer. It effectively finished Ric off and Higgy. Hopefully Allen can recover. If it slows him down and stops him for tear-arsing everywhere, it might actually make him a better, more effective player.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 3, 2020 15:20:41 GMT
Allen and Mikel could be great together. Only issue is I’d play Powell but I want to play Clucas too, headaches for big Mike when he’s back! Who's the ball winner in those two though, Allen tried but doesn't do enough he also can't hold shape to save his life, just aimlessly runs around out of position, for me its one or the other and that includes Clucas too unfortunately, we still need a proper DM that can win the ball. We have not had a 'proper DM' since Salif Diao and he was shit. Mikel (or possibly Cousins?) is the closest we have, and Joe would compliment him fine - in fact we would have one of the best midfields in the division with them two firing on all cylinders.
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Post by madelinesmithmmmh on Nov 3, 2020 15:31:25 GMT
Who's the ball winner in those two though, Allen tried but doesn't do enough he also can't hold shape to save his life, just aimlessly runs around out of position, for me its one or the other and that includes Clucas too unfortunately, we still need a proper DM that can win the ball. We have not had a 'proper DM' since Salif Diao and he was shit. Mikel (or possibly Cousins?) is the closest we have, and Joe would compliment him fine - in fact we would have one of the best midfields in the division with them two firing on all cylinders. Don't think "iloveglennwhelan" would be totally in agreement with this!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 15:35:37 GMT
It's a rare game in which Joe's isn't amongst our top three or four performers. I don't get these constant knockers. Do they think every team is composed of ten Bojans? Allen's biggest fault, I feel, is that he lacks a bit of discipline. He has (/had) great energy to close players down. Sometimes it worked really well, other times it just left us very much exposed. I actually felt he worked well in a Number 10 role because his high work rate (as well as McClean's) often disrupted attacks. However, you sacrifice a lot by putting him there. Let's just give him a few games alongside Mikel and see how he does. He was much more disciplined and effective under O'Neill and playing his best football. He was mis managed under most of our previous managers and trying to do too much to cover for shite/lazy players around him.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 3, 2020 16:18:52 GMT
He was in the best form of his Stoke City career when he got injured.
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Allen
Nov 3, 2020 16:19:07 GMT
Post by houstonsteve on Nov 3, 2020 16:19:07 GMT
Nasty injury. Did one myself. No fun to recover from at all, basically your whole leg and muscles deteriorate to virtually nothing from toes to ass. I had a great surgeon and still it was horrible. Wishing Joe a full recovery (not easy). He will be great alongside Mikel and strengthen the squad significantly. It's arguably the worst injury you can still have as a footballer. It effectively finished Ric off and Higgy. Hopefully Allen can recover. If it slows him down and stops him for tear-arsing everywhere, it might actually make him a better, more effective player. This is the nightmare scenario - best surgeons and physios money can buy and this can happen. www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/07/santi-cazorla-villarreal-injury-arsenal-interview-sid-loweSounds like Joe is on track so fingers crossed they take the time needed. I think Kobe Bryant is one of the few pro athletes that got back to elite 100% after an achilles injury though. It's always a very specific injury as well, so timelines are anyones guess. It can snap from the heel to just below the calf (like mine - an absolute nightmare location) and each has their own issues. Lots of serious mental health elements as well due to the timeline of recovery and setbacks. I would not wish an achilles injury on anyone, ever (not that I would wish any kind of harm to anyone).......
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Allen
Nov 3, 2020 16:26:39 GMT
Post by kustokie on Nov 3, 2020 16:26:39 GMT
Allen’s biggest strength is also his biggest weakness. He has a lot of energy and loves to roam all over the midfield looking for the ball. This only works well if he has someone, like Obe Mikkel, who is very disciplined and sits in front of the back 3 or 4. Otherwise Allen’s wanderings create big holes in the midfield. So the combination of Mikkel and Allen might work quite well.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 3, 2020 17:15:24 GMT
Who's the ball winner in those two though, Allen tried but doesn't do enough he also can't hold shape to save his life, just aimlessly runs around out of position, for me its one or the other and that includes Clucas too unfortunately, we still need a proper DM that can win the ball. We have not had a 'proper DM' since Salif Diao and he was shit. Mikel (or possibly Cousins?) is the closest we have, and Joe would compliment him fine - in fact we would have one of the best midfields in the division with them two firing on all cylinders. Salif was fucking brilliant. Wash your mouth out with soap and water!
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Allen
Nov 3, 2020 17:16:43 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 3, 2020 17:16:43 GMT
Who's the ball winner in those two though, Allen tried but doesn't do enough he also can't hold shape to save his life, just aimlessly runs around out of position, for me its one or the other and that includes Clucas too unfortunately, we still need a proper DM that can win the ball. We have not had a 'proper DM' since Salif Diao and he was shit. Mikel (or possibly Cousins?) is the closest we have, and Joe would compliment him fine - in fact we would have one of the best midfields in the division with them two firing on all cylinders. Mikel isn't as I thought he would be and isn't really close to the type we need imo, Whelan type would be perfect. It would be even better without Allen, Clucas scored double figures last season, I'm suprised a few are so quick to drop him.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 3, 2020 17:21:03 GMT
He was in the best form of his Stoke City career when he got injured. Absolutely. I can understand to a degree the criticism when he played in the Premier league but he would get into any other team in the championship.
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Post by apb1 on Nov 3, 2020 18:30:28 GMT
He might be considerably better in a good team, which we are becoming. The slagging he gets is ridiculous. He'd be a first pick player if fit for me.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 4, 2020 13:40:29 GMT
We have not had a 'proper DM' since Salif Diao and he was shit. Mikel (or possibly Cousins?) is the closest we have, and Joe would compliment him fine - in fact we would have one of the best midfields in the division with them two firing on all cylinders. Mikel isn't as I thought he would be and isn't really close to the type we need imo, Whelan type would be perfect. It would be even better without Allen, Clucas scored double figures last season, I'm suprised a few are so quick to drop him. Not the Whelan myth again - he was not a DM and if he was, he was totally ineffective! I would say Mikel is exactly what we need, a calming influence sitting deep with an eye for a pass (forwards as well as backwards!).
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2020 13:42:39 GMT
Mikel isn't as I thought he would be and isn't really close to the type we need imo, Whelan type would be perfect. It would be even better without Allen, Clucas scored double figures last season, I'm suprised a few are so quick to drop him. Not the Whelan myth again - he was not a DM and if he was, he was totally ineffective! I would say Mikel is exactly what we need, a calming influence sitting deep with an eye for a pass (forwards as well as backwards!). DM is a stopping job, first and foremost. A destroyer role. An eye for a pass is a bonus but the primary job is to keep it simple, keep the ball and give it to the creative players on the ball and plug the gaps and get tackles in off it. Whelan was excellent at that until his legs started to go.
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Allen
Nov 4, 2020 13:46:31 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 4, 2020 13:46:31 GMT
Mikel isn't as I thought he would be and isn't really close to the type we need imo, Whelan type would be perfect. It would be even better without Allen, Clucas scored double figures last season, I'm suprised a few are so quick to drop him. Not the Whelan myth again - he was not a DM and if he was, he was totally ineffective! I would say Mikel is exactly what we need, a calming influence sitting deep with an eye for a pass (forwards as well as backwards!). He did a good job shielding the defence and winning the ball, its not a myth in the slightest, I like Mikel but we still need a battler in the middle.
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Allen
Nov 4, 2020 15:05:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by hardcastle on Nov 4, 2020 15:05:00 GMT
Watch the six one win against Liverpool again. You might think it was a triumph for Steven N'Zonzi (that's how l remembered it). But Whelen was just brilliant. Hoovering everything up on the edge of our box and resupplying the midfield. Time and again. Easy to underestimate his value - until we no longer have anyone who is able to do it so well that is.
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Allen
Nov 4, 2020 15:28:13 GMT
Post by Jimm on Nov 4, 2020 15:28:13 GMT
Watch the six one win against Liverpool again. You might think it was a triumph for Steven N'Zonzi (that's how l remembered it). But Whelen was just brilliant. Hoovering everything up on the edge of our box and resupplying the midfield. Time and again. Easy to underestimate his value - until we no longer have anyone who is able to do it so well that is. Hi Glen
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Post by pez75 on Nov 4, 2020 15:47:07 GMT
Not the Whelan myth again - he was not a DM and if he was, he was totally ineffective! I would say Mikel is exactly what we need, a calming influence sitting deep with an eye for a pass (forwards as well as backwards!). DM is a stopping job, first and foremost. A destroyer role. An eye for a pass is a bonus but the primary job is to keep it simple, keep the ball and give it to the creative players on the ball and plug the gaps and get tackles in off it. Whelan was excellent at that until his legs started to go. I agree re: DM role, but that is why so few teams have one - no longer a requirement for a lot of teams in the modern game. Whelan wasn't a true DM, he just played deep and under restriction - He was fortunate to be part of Pulis' caged midfield for most of his Stoke life so benefitted from a strict regime that shackled the central midfield to not expose the defence. He looked great when in space playing simple 5 yd passes sideways and backwards but anyone can do that. As soon as he was under pressure he would lose the ball & most successful tackles were a result of his own 1st touch. Listening to the misty-eyed revisionists you would think Stoke never lost a game when he played - we endured many heavy defeats with him in his unicorn role...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 4, 2020 15:55:55 GMT
DM is a stopping job, first and foremost. A destroyer role. An eye for a pass is a bonus but the primary job is to keep it simple, keep the ball and give it to the creative players on the ball and plug the gaps and get tackles in off it. Whelan was excellent at that until his legs started to go. I agree re: DM role, but that is why so few teams have one - no longer a requirement for a lot of teams in the modern game. Whelan wasn't a true DM, he just played deep and under restriction - He was fortunate to be part of Pulis' caged midfield for most of his Stoke life so benefitted from a strict regime that shackled the central midfield to not expose the defence. He looked great when in space playing simple 5 yd passes sideways and backwards but anyone can do that. As soon as he was under pressure he would lose the ball & most successful tackles were a result of his own 1st touch. Listening to the misty-eyed revisionists you would think Stoke never lost a game when he played - we endured many heavy defeats with him in his unicorn role... We were Stoke in the richest league in the world, of course we endured plenty of heavy defeats. Name a team our size who doesn't in that league. If anyone can do that job, why don't they? Why has nobody done it as well for us since? His best games came under Hughes as well, rather than Pulis. Loads of teams have one. Fernandinho was one of Man City's most important players for years. Fabinho has been brilliant there for Liverpool. Ndidi is brilliant there for Leicester. Kante hasn't been the same player since Chelsea tried to stop him being one and push him further forward.
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Allen
Nov 4, 2020 16:04:17 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Nov 4, 2020 16:04:17 GMT
DM is a stopping job, first and foremost. A destroyer role. An eye for a pass is a bonus but the primary job is to keep it simple, keep the ball and give it to the creative players on the ball and plug the gaps and get tackles in off it. Whelan was excellent at that until his legs started to go. I agree re: DM role, but that is why so few teams have one - no longer a requirement for a lot of teams in the modern game. Whelan wasn't a true DM, he just played deep and under restriction - He was fortunate to be part of Pulis' caged midfield for most of his Stoke life so benefitted from a strict regime that shackled the central midfield to not expose the defence. He looked great when in space playing simple 5 yd passes sideways and backwards but anyone can do that. As soon as he was under pressure he would lose the ball & most successful tackles were a result of his own 1st touch. Listening to the misty-eyed revisionists you would think Stoke never lost a game when he played - we endured many heavy defeats with him in his unicorn role... Anyone can do it...... Apart from the guy we signed to replace him that still hasn't found a place in this team that makes his signing worthwhile.
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