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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 21, 2020 21:28:41 GMT
Mixed, mixed and mixed. Really not sure how to rate tonight - how does ok after a brainstorm sound? In the end I felt like we held on well but wishing we could only play second halves and only play away games (and again have this sense of deja vu, these are things we were saying about Tone 10 years ago).
7 sound fair for MoN on balance?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 21:35:35 GMT
5.
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Post by greystokie on Oct 21, 2020 21:36:01 GMT
5 from me.
Several players under performed but the system he sets up plays a large part in that. I really don't know why he persists with it at home. He redeemed himself somewhat in the second half but it was the sending off which forced him into making the change.
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 21, 2020 21:44:24 GMT
4
The formation isn't working.
We got away with a point there.
He get's an extra point for the improvement and the 3 chances after the sending off and having to play 4 at the back.
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Post by liathroid on Oct 21, 2020 21:48:10 GMT
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Post by blackpoolred on Oct 21, 2020 21:51:35 GMT
2 out of 10 for me
Shocking performance from start to finish. 3rd best to every ball
Worked out well for us losing Collins, as the defence looked stronger without him in it - and we would have surely lost had we stayed with the 11 v 11 formation
We were told MON would improve the defence, I thought that would mean bringing in better players, apart from Souttar we are struggling for a half decent player defensively and have little viable competition for players – bit of a cabbage patch decision by MON/club to think our 19 year old would be good enough to play every game in our defence – we are going to be a bit short now if Collins can’t cut the mustard and MON insists with this 3 at the back.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 21:53:18 GMT
7. Wasteful finishing and a joke of a sending off has cost us 3 points.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 21, 2020 21:55:39 GMT
2 out of 10 for me Shocking performance from start to finish. 3rd best to every ball Worked out well for us losing Collins, as the defence looked stronger without him in it - and we would have surely lost had we stayed with the 11 v 11 formation We were told MON would improve the defence, I thought that would mean bringing in better players, apart from Souttar we are struggling for a half decent player defensively and have little viable competition for players – bit of a cabbage patch decision by MON/club to think our 19 year old would be good enough to play every game in our defence – we are going to be a bit short now if Collins can’t cut the mustard and MON insists with this 3 at the back. Surely that idea went after we signed Chester...
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 21, 2020 22:00:23 GMT
5 - I don't know what to think anymore
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 22:01:26 GMT
7. Wasteful finishing and a joke of a sending off has cost us 3 points. And being shit for two-thirds of the game...
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Oct 21, 2020 22:05:58 GMT
5 this fucking awful system he's insisting on using is shite and we were exposed several times, we looked much better when we were down to 10 men and were forced to play 4 at he back. Imagine if we'd have gone 4-4-1-1 wit 11 men on the pitch. It was 34 minutes into the match before we'd even had a shot - at home against a side that hasn't won all season. Gouranga.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:07:41 GMT
7. Wasteful finishing and a joke of a sending off has cost us 3 points. And being shit for two-thirds of the game... Disagree. We are playing in a very even, competitive league. Take away the minor advantage of a home crowd and the playing field is equalled further. We are an average team with realistic ambitions of perhaps getting into the top ten. People react to results. If Brown or Souttar score with their late chances would you have still given the manager 5/10? You won’t admit it, but I very much doubt you would.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:08:52 GMT
5 - I don't know what to think anymore Start by lowering your expectations a little. Top ten and a quarter final of the league cup is progress.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:12:08 GMT
5 this fucking awful system he's insisting on using is shite and we were exposed several times, we looked much better when we were down to 10 men and were forced to play 4 at he back. Imagine if we'd have gone 4-4-1-1 wit 11 men on the pitch. It was 34 minutes into the match before we'd even had a shot - at home against a side that hasn't won all season. Gouranga. Far too much focus on tactics. You win games at this level by working harder, running for longer, and taking your chances. This constant focus on whether we play 3,4, or 5 at the back is starting to get incredibly tedious.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 22:12:10 GMT
And being shit for two-thirds of the game... Disagree. We are playing in a very even, competitive league. Take away the minor advantage of a home crowd and the playing field is equalled further. We are an average team with realistic ambitions of perhaps getting into the top ten. People react to results. If Brown or Souttar score with their late chances would you have still given the manager 5/10? You won’t admit it, but I very much doubt you would. Some people might, I react to performances because they take the temperature of where you are as a side, and that was another poor home performance. If that advantage doesn’t exist anymore, why is that set up yielding results away but not at home? Is that just a coincidence? It was a poor performance. With 11 men there was zero fluidity, and at home against a side who haven’t won yet it took us 34 minutes to have a shot on target. We were better when the sending off forced us to ditch his Plan A, again. Compare that performance to the one in July where we blew them away and tell me we look better now than we did then?
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Post by RAF on Oct 21, 2020 22:12:12 GMT
5 - Don't fuck around with a defence that kept a clean sheet in the last game.
H
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 22:12:43 GMT
5 this fucking awful system he's insisting on using is shite and we were exposed several times, we looked much better when we were down to 10 men and were forced to play 4 at he back. Imagine if we'd have gone 4-4-1-1 wit 11 men on the pitch. It was 34 minutes into the match before we'd even had a shot - at home against a side that hasn't won all season. Gouranga. Far too much focus on tactics. You win games at this level by working harder, running for longer, and taking your chances. This constant focus on whether we play 3,4, or 5 at the back is starting to get incredibly tedious. But you can’t do that effectively if you’re not playing to those players’ strengths.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 21, 2020 22:14:52 GMT
4 and that's because he made the right decisions when we went down to 10 at which point we could have won the game.
However, he's thrown away 4 easy points from the brum and barnsley games.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Oct 21, 2020 22:17:19 GMT
5 this fucking awful system he's insisting on using is shite and we were exposed several times, we looked much better when we were down to 10 men and were forced to play 4 at he back. Imagine if we'd have gone 4-4-1-1 wit 11 men on the pitch. It was 34 minutes into the match before we'd even had a shot - at home against a side that hasn't won all season. Gouranga. Far too much focus on tactics. You win games at this level by working harder, running for longer, and taking your chances. This constant focus on whether we play 3,4, or 5 at the back is starting to get incredibly tedious. The manager picks the team and tactics and that's what we're rating. The team were out worked, out thought and looked second best for long periods of the game, and not for the first time this season, it's the managers job to do something about it but he persists with playing tactics that we haven't got the personnel to carry out - that's the tedious thing! Gouranga.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 21, 2020 22:19:03 GMT
Once over the white MON has to rely upon the team he has selected.
As a team that performance was unacceptable, in addition there were several players who need to check the mirror tonight.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 21, 2020 22:20:02 GMT
Once over the white MON has to rely upon the team he has selected. As a team that performance was unacceptable, in addition there were several players who need to check the mirror tonight. Sorry. Once over the “white line”
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:20:35 GMT
Disagree. We are playing in a very even, competitive league. Take away the minor advantage of a home crowd and the playing field is equalled further. We are an average team with realistic ambitions of perhaps getting into the top ten. People react to results. If Brown or Souttar score with their late chances would you have still given the manager 5/10? You won’t admit it, but I very much doubt you would. Some people might, I react to performances because they take the temperature of where you are as a side, and that was another poor home performance. If that advantage doesn’t exist anymore, why is that set up yielding results away but not at home? Is that just a coincidence? It was a poor performance. With 11 men there was zero fluidity, and at home against a side who haven’t won yet it took us 34 minutes to have a shot on target. We were better when the sending off forced us to ditch his Plan A, again. Compare that performance to the one in July where we blew them away and tell me we look better now than we did then? The two games between us and Barnsley are incomparable. Our away form and results merely compounds my view that home advantage simply isn't an advantage any more. I would agree that we were slow out of the blocks again tonight but there was enough creativity to carve out several excellent opportunities. Fletcher spurned two gilt edged chances to go with the two that Brown and Souttar missed. The two goals we conceded were completely down to individual error and nothing to do with systems and tactics.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 21, 2020 22:21:04 GMT
5 - I don't know what to think anymore Start by lowering your expectations a little. Top ten and a quarter final of the league cup is progress. I totally understand that but if we carry on playing like that against teams like Barnsley at home we won't be anywhere near 10th place.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:23:05 GMT
Far too much focus on tactics. You win games at this level by working harder, running for longer, and taking your chances. This constant focus on whether we play 3,4, or 5 at the back is starting to get incredibly tedious. The manager picks the team and tactics and that's what we're rating. The team were out worked, out thought and looked second best for long periods of the game, and not for the first time this season, it's the managers job to do something about it but he persists with playing tactics that we haven't got the personnel to carry out - that's the tedious thing! Gouranga. Nobody was complaining about the team selection beforehand. If the players were “out worked” then I’m afraid that’s down to the players.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:23:38 GMT
Start by lowering your expectations a little. Top ten and a quarter final of the league cup is progress. I totally understand that but if we carry on playing like that against teams like Barnsley at home we won't be anywhere near 10th place. I think that’s exactly where we will finish.
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Post by andyapotter on Oct 21, 2020 22:24:24 GMT
8 for me. I thought Barnsley were playing a cup game against higher league opposition, we stayed in it and didn’t let them get away. If we’d still has 11 on I think we would have scored at least 1 more when their legs went which they did towards then end. Good subs, all could have made their mark.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 22:24:37 GMT
Some people might, I react to performances because they take the temperature of where you are as a side, and that was another poor home performance. If that advantage doesn’t exist anymore, why is that set up yielding results away but not at home? Is that just a coincidence? It was a poor performance. With 11 men there was zero fluidity, and at home against a side who haven’t won yet it took us 34 minutes to have a shot on target. We were better when the sending off forced us to ditch his Plan A, again. Compare that performance to the one in July where we blew them away and tell me we look better now than we did then? The two games between us and Barnsley are incomparable. Our away form and results merely compounds my view that home advantage simply isn't an advantage any more. I would agree that we were slow out of the blocks again tonight but there was enough creativity to carve out several excellent opportunities. Fletcher spurned two gilt edged chances to go with the two that Brown and Souttar missed. The two goals we conceded were completely down to individual error and nothing to do with systems and tactics. Why are they incomparable sorry? You’re going to have to explain that one to me? The Brown and Souttar chances came after we’d switched to a back four, which suits us far better. We looked a better, more threatening side after that. Smith at right wing back is an issue at both ends of the pitch and if we can argue that individual mistakes aren’t the result of the system, we can also argue that it hasn’t sufficiently tightened us up at home to make sacrificing creativity and attacking intent worth it.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:31:00 GMT
The two games between us and Barnsley are incomparable. Our away form and results merely compounds my view that home advantage simply isn't an advantage any more. I would agree that we were slow out of the blocks again tonight but there was enough creativity to carve out several excellent opportunities. Fletcher spurned two gilt edged chances to go with the two that Brown and Souttar missed. The two goals we conceded were completely down to individual error and nothing to do with systems and tactics. Why are they incomparable sorry? You’re going to have to explain that one to me? The Brown and Souttar chances came after we’d switched to a back four, which suits us far better. We looked a better, more threatening side after that. Smith at right wing back is an issue at both ends of the pitch and if we can argue that individual mistakes aren’t the result of the system, we can also argue that it hasn’t sufficiently tightened us up at home to make sacrificing creativity and attacking intent worth it. They are incomparable because when we played them post lockdown we didn’t have to play for half an hour with ten men. That’s a huge handicap and therefore makes any comparison with the other game completely redundant. You can get the salts and pepper shakers out on the dining table and nit pick through tactics for as long as you like, but individual errors cost us goals today and not systems.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Oct 21, 2020 22:35:30 GMT
Some people might, I react to performances because they take the temperature of where you are as a side, and that was another poor home performance. If that advantage doesn’t exist anymore, why is that set up yielding results away but not at home? Is that just a coincidence? It was a poor performance. With 11 men there was zero fluidity, and at home against a side who haven’t won yet it took us 34 minutes to have a shot on target. We were better when the sending off forced us to ditch his Plan A, again. Compare that performance to the one in July where we blew them away and tell me we look better now than we did then? The two games between us and Barnsley are incomparable. Our away form and results merely compounds my view that home advantage simply isn't an advantage any more. I would agree that we were slow out of the blocks again tonight but there was enough creativity to carve out several excellent opportunities. Fletcher spurned two gilt edged chances to go with the two that Brown and Souttar missed. The two goals we conceded were completely down to individual error and nothing to do with systems and tactics. PMSL I don't know what you've been drinking or smoking. Barnsleys first came from a run where their player nutmegged Souttar and Collins before putting a cross in that was finished by a good late run. The second Barnsley goal came from shite defending all round not just an individual error and did you not spot the chances Barnsley had and "could" have scored from? Their goals were down to their tactics and exposing our weaknesses. Our first goal was excellent our second was a mistake from the Barnsley keeper. Brown was denied by an excellent defensive block, Fletcher had 1 shot saved (surely that's what a keeper is there for) and he skied another. Souttar's header was no where near never mind gilt edged. Gouranga.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 22:36:05 GMT
Why are they incomparable sorry? You’re going to have to explain that one to me? The Brown and Souttar chances came after we’d switched to a back four, which suits us far better. We looked a better, more threatening side after that. Smith at right wing back is an issue at both ends of the pitch and if we can argue that individual mistakes aren’t the result of the system, we can also argue that it hasn’t sufficiently tightened us up at home to make sacrificing creativity and attacking intent worth it. They are incomparable because when we played them post lockdown we didn’t have to play for half an hour with ten men. That’s a huge handicap and therefore makes any comparison with the other game completely redundant. You can get the salts and peppers out on the dining table and nit pick through tactics for as long as you like, but individual errors cost us goals today and not tactics. I’m not sure what you’re arguing? The best football we played tonight was with 10 men? Compare the 4-0 with the hour tonight with 11? The goals were basic but again, there’s more to it than that isn’t there? We didn’t threaten enough, we had no tempo or rhythm to our play, we were sat far too deep. It’s been the same story at home in each game. That’s because teams come to do a job on us and we’re not set up to break them down while still being vulnerable at the back.
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