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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:37:36 GMT
The two games between us and Barnsley are incomparable. Our away form and results merely compounds my view that home advantage simply isn't an advantage any more. I would agree that we were slow out of the blocks again tonight but there was enough creativity to carve out several excellent opportunities. Fletcher spurned two gilt edged chances to go with the two that Brown and Souttar missed. The two goals we conceded were completely down to individual error and nothing to do with systems and tactics. PMSL I don't know what you've been drinking or smoking. Barnsleys first came from a run where their player nutmegged Souttar and Collins before putting a cross in that was finished by a good late run. The second Barnsley goal came from shite defending all round not just an individual error and did you not spot the chances Barnsley had and "could" have scored from? Their goals were down to their tactics and exposing our weaknesses. Our first goal was excellent our second was a mistake from the Barnsley keeper. Brown was denied by an excellent defensive block, Fletcher had 1 shot saved (surely that's what a keeper is there for) and he skied another. Souttar's header was no where near never mind gilt edged. Gouranga.  I never said Souttars chance was guilt edged? I said Fletchers chances were. Thanks for clearing up in great detail that the two goals were both down to errors from defendersđź‘Ť |
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:39:18 GMT
They are incomparable because when we played them post lockdown we didn’t have to play for half an hour with ten men. That’s a huge handicap and therefore makes any comparison with the other game completely redundant. You can get the salts and peppers out on the dining table and nit pick through tactics for as long as you like, but individual errors cost us goals today and not tactics. I’m not sure what you’re arguing? The best football we played tonight was with 10 men? Compare the 4-0 with the hour tonight with 11? The goals were basic but again, there’s more to it than that isn’t there? We didn’t threaten enough, we had no tempo or rhythm to our play, we were sat far too deep. It’s been the same story at home in each game. That’s because teams come to do a job on us and we’re not set up to break them down while still being vulnerable at the back. I’m telling you why the two games are incomparable and also suggesting that if we score those easy chances your post match critique simply doesn’t happen. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 21, 2020 22:46:32 GMT
I’m not sure what you’re arguing? The best football we played tonight was with 10 men? Compare the 4-0 with the hour tonight with 11? The goals were basic but again, there’s more to it than that isn’t there? We didn’t threaten enough, we had no tempo or rhythm to our play, we were sat far too deep. It’s been the same story at home in each game. That’s because teams come to do a job on us and we’re not set up to break them down while still being vulnerable at the back. I’m telling you why the two games are incomparable and also suggesting that if we score those easy chances your post match critique simply doesn’t happen. So you’re saying we can’t compare the 60 minutes where we had 11 men to the 4-0 game where we had 11 men because of the half hour where we had 10 men, played a different system, and actually played better than we did first half? That doesn’t make any sense. And no, I’d still have been disappointed with the performance. I’d have been pleased with the three points but concerned that we still don’t look like a team that’s clicking or looking as good as it did from January to July. |
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Oct 21, 2020 22:48:12 GMT
I’m not sure what you’re arguing? The best football we played tonight was with 10 men? Compare the 4-0 with the hour tonight with 11? The goals were basic but again, there’s more to it than that isn’t there? We didn’t threaten enough, we had no tempo or rhythm to our play, we were sat far too deep. It’s been the same story at home in each game. That’s because teams come to do a job on us and we’re not set up to break them down while still being vulnerable at the back. I’m telling you why the two games are incomparable and also suggesting that if we score those easy chances your post match critique simply doesn’t happen. I'm suggesting that IF my auntie had bollox she'd be my uncle. I seem to remember the last time we played Barnsley at home (4th July 2020 just a few months ago) and it was 11 v 11 we didn't concede 2 goals - I would say that is comparable. Gouranga. |
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:52:39 GMT
I’m telling you why the two games are incomparable and also suggesting that if we score those easy chances your post match critique simply doesn’t happen. So you’re saying we can’t compare the 60 minutes where we had 11 men to the 4-0 game where we had 11 men because of the half hour where we had 10 men, played a different system, and actually played better than we did first half? That doesn’t make any sense. And no, I’d still have been disappointed with the performance. I’d have been pleased with the three points but concerned that we still don’t look like a team that’s clicking or looking as good as it did from January to July. Yes, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m saying. Personally, for what it’s worth, had we kept 11 men on the pitch I’m sure we would have won tonight as well. “clicking between January and July” well that sounds very good until you actually take the March to June part out because we didn’t actually play any games, and then take out hideous performances at QPR, Derby, Wigan, and Leeds...and a shocker at home to Boro for good measure. With two games to go, this squad, playing 4-2-3-1, was still in grave danger of getting relegated. “Clicking” my arse. |
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 21, 2020 22:53:17 GMT
I’m telling you why the two games are incomparable and also suggesting that if we score those easy chances your post match critique simply doesn’t happen. I'm suggesting that IF my auntie had bollox she'd be my uncle. I seem to remember the last time we played Barnsley at home (4th July 2020 just a few months ago) and it was 11 v 11 we didn't concede 2 goals - I would say that is comparable. Gouranga. I would say you are talking shit (again) |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 21, 2020 23:32:20 GMT
3
Negative side, negative performance, negative result.
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Post by kustokie on Oct 22, 2020 0:50:14 GMT
3. No idea why he changed the defense. Sat way too deep. Should have changed things at ht, like he did against Luton. The equalizer was very fortunate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 5:40:24 GMT
7.
Stuck with the 343 that has worked well recently but let down by individual mistakes across the side and also a group of players that refused to match the workrate of the opposition, which is unforgivable. How much of that is linked to the system? Think the wing backs look a bit awkward at home if we are offering a critique on the system.
Loses marks for Chester in ahead of Batth.
Went surprisingly quite attack minded with his subs when we went down to ten men.
Think we have seen enough of the back 3/5 at home now to confidently say the manager needs to look at a few tweaks - maybe McClean and Brown out wide at home if he wants to keep the shape as-is?
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Post by wearestoke80 on Oct 22, 2020 5:44:10 GMT
5 - I don't know what to think anymore Start by lowering your expectations a little. Top ten and a quarter final of the league cup is progress. I’d be happy with staying up at this rate |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 22, 2020 5:44:54 GMT
So you’re saying we can’t compare the 60 minutes where we had 11 men to the 4-0 game where we had 11 men because of the half hour where we had 10 men, played a different system, and actually played better than we did first half? That doesn’t make any sense. And no, I’d still have been disappointed with the performance. I’d have been pleased with the three points but concerned that we still don’t look like a team that’s clicking or looking as good as it did from January to July. Yes, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m saying. Personally, for what it’s worth, had we kept 11 men on the pitch I’m sure we would have won tonight as well. “clicking between January and July” well that sounds very good until you actually take the March to June part out because we didn’t actually play any games, and then take out hideous performances at QPR, Derby, Wigan, and Leeds...and a shocker at home to Boro for good measure. With two games to go, this squad, playing 4-2-3-1, was still in grave danger of getting relegated. “Clicking” my arse. Again mate, why can’t we compare the time with 11 men on the pitch in both games. You still haven’t explained that? By that point last season we’d got the game won. We had some batterings last season but are you saying because we didn’t play brilliantly and win in every single game then it doesn’t count? In the last 10 home games we scored 19 goals and conceded 6. We’ve conceded five at home already this season and don’t look like we’d score 19 in two seasons. Name one performance in the league this season that’s even come close to Huddersfield, Barnsley, Hull, Charlton, even Birmingham under MON last season? |
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Post by greenhoff on Oct 22, 2020 5:59:10 GMT
So you’re saying we can’t compare the 60 minutes where we had 11 men to the 4-0 game where we had 11 men because of the half hour where we had 10 men, played a different system, and actually played better than we did first half? That doesn’t make any sense. And no, I’d still have been disappointed with the performance. I’d have been pleased with the three points but concerned that we still don’t look like a team that’s clicking or looking as good as it did from January to July. Yes, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m saying. Personally, for what it’s worth, had we kept 11 men on the pitch I’m sure we would have won tonight as well. “clicking between January and July” well that sounds very good until you actually take the March to June part out because we didn’t actually play any games, and then take out hideous performances at QPR, Derby, Wigan, and Leeds...and a shocker at home to Boro for good measure. With two games to go, this squad, playing 4-2-3-1, was still in grave danger of getting relegated. “Clicking” my arse. We were actually capable of scoring goals. In some of the matches you describe MON was having a post lockdown brain fart where after posting the team sheet many including myself were thinking WTF. If I could be arsed I'd revisit some of the posts. Hes actually upgraded the personnel since then so in effect the 4231 should work better. We basically played with a back 8 last night at home to Barnsley. Let that sink in. |
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Post by citynickscfc on Oct 22, 2020 6:04:09 GMT
5
Really poor performance again first half, against a better side we would have been 2 or 3 down with no gifted goals. Second half was hard to judge due to the sending off and O'Niell got the subs correct. Still only a 5 tho due to the negativity, what a shocking first half performance.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Oct 22, 2020 6:12:14 GMT
8 for me. I thought Barnsley were playing a cup game against higher league opposition, we stayed in it and didn’t let them get away. If we’d still has 11 on I think we would have scored at least 1 more when their legs went which they did towards then end. Good subs, all could have made their mark. Christ on a bike if that was an eight then it'll be 15 if we manage a draw against Brentford. How the hell you can give that 8 out of 10 bewilders me. Opinions eh.... 🙄 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 6:50:53 GMT
8 for me. I thought Barnsley were playing a cup game against higher league opposition, we stayed in it and didn’t let them get away. If we’d still has 11 on I think we would have scored at least 1 more when their legs went which they did towards then end. Good subs, all could have made their mark. Christ on a bike if that was an eight then it'll be 15 if we manage a draw against Brentford. How the hell you can give that 8 out of 10 bewilders me. Opinions eh.... 🙄 It's a hard one to mark though isn't it? For as much as we moan about the system you can't get away from the fact that the first half was all down to the hunger of both teams. Barnsley wanted it more all over the park and they matched us up with a back three. Their system didn't make them more hungry and ours didn't make us less hungry - albeit there are clearly issues with how we set up at home. Also the red card played a huge part in the game at a time when we had just equalised. You can't say we'd have gone on and won the game from there just like you can't say we wouldn't have either. Having gone down to ten men O'Neill brought on three attacking players in Brown, TOB and Ince, so you can't say he went all out defensive when faced with a man disadvantage either. You can see why people have rated it low and can also see why people have rated it higher. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 22, 2020 6:55:03 GMT
Christ on a bike if that was an eight then it'll be 15 if we manage a draw against Brentford. How the hell you can give that 8 out of 10 bewilders me. Opinions eh.... 🙄 It's a hard one to mark though isn't it? For as much as we moan about the system you can't get away from the fact that the first half was all down to the hunger of both teams. Barnsley wanted it more all over the park and they matched us up with a back three. Their system didn't make them more hungry and ours didn't make us less hungry - albeit there are clearly issues with how we set up at home. Also the red card played a huge part in the game at a time when we had just equalised. You can't say we'd have gone on and won the game from there just like you can't say we wouldn't have either. Having gone down to ten men O'Neill brought on three attacking players in Brown, TOB and Ince, so you can't say he went all out defensive when faced with a man disadvantage either. You can see why people have rated it low and can also see why people have rated it higher. I don't think it was 'all' down to that Looky. It was as much down to us setting up at home in a way that isn't conducive to us creating chances. |
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 22, 2020 7:02:14 GMT
And being shit for two-thirds of the game... Disagree. We are playing in a very even, competitive league. Take away the minor advantage of a home crowd and the playing field is equalled further. We are an average team with realistic ambitions of perhaps getting into the top ten. People react to results. If Brown or Souttar score with their late chances would you have still given the manager 5/10? You won’t admit it, but I very much doubt you would. Get in line mate. They don't want anyone to think that. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 7:02:49 GMT
It's a hard one to mark though isn't it? For as much as we moan about the system you can't get away from the fact that the first half was all down to the hunger of both teams. Barnsley wanted it more all over the park and they matched us up with a back three. Their system didn't make them more hungry and ours didn't make us less hungry - albeit there are clearly issues with how we set up at home. Also the red card played a huge part in the game at a time when we had just equalised. You can't say we'd have gone on and won the game from there just like you can't say we wouldn't have either. Having gone down to ten men O'Neill brought on three attacking players in Brown, TOB and Ince, so you can't say he went all out defensive when faced with a man disadvantage either. You can see why people have rated it low and can also see why people have rated it higher. I don't think it was 'all' down to that Looky. It was as much down to us setting up at home in a way that isn't conducive to us creating chances. Maybe but as a team we've generally struggled for a while against teams that are aggressive and press us - regardless of the system we line up with. We've seen it with 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and so on. We just can't hack it. I just don't think last night warrants super low scores given the manager has stumbled on the 3-4-3 system that has worked very well, albeit away, and needed trying at home before binning it off. You won't find me arguing that we need to look at how we setup overall - i've been moaning and have been slated for moaning about it ever since the Millwall game! |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Oct 22, 2020 7:08:08 GMT
So you’re saying we can’t compare the 60 minutes where we had 11 men to the 4-0 game where we had 11 men because of the half hour where we had 10 men, played a different system, and actually played better than we did first half? That doesn’t make any sense. And no, I’d still have been disappointed with the performance. I’d have been pleased with the three points but concerned that we still don’t look like a team that’s clicking or looking as good as it did from January to July. Yes, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m saying. Personally, for what it’s worth, had we kept 11 men on the pitch I’m sure we would have won tonight as well. “clicking between January and July” well that sounds very good until you actually take the March to June part out because we didn’t actually play any games, and then take out hideous performances at QPR, Derby, Wigan, and Leeds...and a shocker at home to Boro for good measure. With two games to go, this squad, playing 4-2-3-1, was still in grave danger of getting relegated. “Clicking” my arse. In 37 games under MON, we have earned 57 points which over a season is play off form. Most of which came while playing 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 without a recognised left back and was based on very good home form with very few goals conceded. Even Boro was a game we had more than enough chances to win. Why sign a left back, a CDM, a quick right sided forward and a target man, all of which strengthen our ability to play 4-3-3 and not play it? Instead last night we had Chester, Tymon, Smith and Powell our of position and ceded the advantage to an opposition that we ending up dominating with 10 men. It makes no sense. I have no problem playing 3-5-2 again ask stronger teams and away but why at home? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 22, 2020 7:13:31 GMT
I don't think it was 'all' down to that Looky. It was as much down to us setting up at home in a way that isn't conducive to us creating chances. Maybe but as a team we've generally struggled for a while against teams that are aggressive and press us - regardless of the system we line up with. We've seen it with 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 and so on. We just can't hack it. I just don't think last night warrants super low scores given the manager has stumbled on the 3-4-3 system that has worked very well, albeit away, and needed trying at home before binning it off. You won't find me arguing that we need to look at how we setup overall - i've been moaning and have been slated for moaning about it ever since the Millwall game! I think it's generous to say it's worked 'very well'. It's tightened us up away, it's useless at home, and performance wise we've been pretty bad for large swathes of every game. No team plays badly for long and gets away with it. |
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 22, 2020 7:49:00 GMT
Yes, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m saying. Personally, for what it’s worth, had we kept 11 men on the pitch I’m sure we would have won tonight as well. “clicking between January and July” well that sounds very good until you actually take the March to June part out because we didn’t actually play any games, and then take out hideous performances at QPR, Derby, Wigan, and Leeds...and a shocker at home to Boro for good measure. With two games to go, this squad, playing 4-2-3-1, was still in grave danger of getting relegated. “Clicking” my arse. In 37 games under MON, we have earned 57 points which over a season is play off form. Most of which came while playing 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 without a recognised left back and was based on very good home form with very few goals conceded. Even Boro was a game we had more than enough chances to win. Why sign a left back, a CDM, a quick right sided forward and a target man, all of which strengthen our ability to play 4-3-3 and not play it? Instead last night we had Chester, Tymon, Smith and Powell our of position and ceded the advantage to an opposition that we ending up dominating with 10 men. It makes no sense. I have no problem playing 3-5-2 again ask stronger teams and away but why at home? Our points per game average after six games is the same as it was last season under MON, around 1.5. That would suggest that the system he has played has made very little difference to our results. Please also bear in mind that we ended last season with 3-5-2. Also, when we went down to 10 men we certainly didn’t “dominate” with 10 men at all. We spent 90% of the time after the sending off camped in our own half and only broke out when Brown was able to use his pace to chase down a few high clearances. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 22, 2020 7:51:20 GMT
In 37 games under MON, we have earned 57 points which over a season is play off form. Most of which came while playing 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 without a recognised left back and was based on very good home form with very few goals conceded. Even Boro was a game we had more than enough chances to win. Why sign a left back, a CDM, a quick right sided forward and a target man, all of which strengthen our ability to play 4-3-3 and not play it? Instead last night we had Chester, Tymon, Smith and Powell our of position and ceded the advantage to an opposition that we ending up dominating with 10 men. It makes no sense. I have no problem playing 3-5-2 again ask stronger teams and away but why at home? Our points per game average after six games is the same as it was last season under MON, around 1.5. That would suggest that the system he has played has made very little difference to our results. Please also bear in mind that we ended last season with 3-5-2. Also, when we went down to 10 men we certainly didn’t “dominate” with 10 men at all. We spent 90% of the time after the sending off camped in our own half and only broke out when Brown was able to use his pace to chase down a few high clearances. We played about four games last season using the 3-5-2, and one of those was a royal spanking at Leeds. We created at least as many good chances if not more in half an hour last night with 10 men as we did in the previous hour with 11. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 9:39:51 GMT
3 for me.
we were tactically outthought by a really really poor side.
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Post by zerps on Oct 22, 2020 10:23:19 GMT
2.
No intention of causing them any problems from the off. Passing it across the back 3 pointlessly making it easy for them to press us. Slow, turgid, negative, gutless, unimaginative, spineless gash.
A point flattered us.
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Post by jeycov on Oct 22, 2020 10:43:22 GMT
5
We got a point
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Post by dastokie on Oct 22, 2020 10:50:05 GMT
TEN
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 22, 2020 11:08:02 GMT
5 for me
I will give Barnsley some credit for closing us down in their half.
If we had played 4-2-3-1 I am convinced we would have won.
Becoming a bit of a one-trick pony with this formation. It is far too predictable and easy to stop us - cut off the wing-backs from any space and we have nowhere to go with the ball unless someone like Souttar steps forward through the middle.
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 22, 2020 11:12:40 GMT
5
Extra point for the substitutions which I thought worked really well.
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 22, 2020 11:27:34 GMT
Average 5 from me. Strange game. Barnsley were well up for it and the least they deserved was a point. Only MON knows why he didn't keep the same three centre backs who did so well in the last game. Whatever, I think we can all agree that he shouldn't have changed those three. As stupid as it sounds, we could have won that game in the end given the chances we had late on. It would have been a travesty but after the rediculous sending off, then it would have been karma. The one thing that's becoming more obvious by the week is that, when playing behind closed doors, home advantage seems to have been neutralised. The results we've seen from most games throughout the league show that. We're doing okay even if things are topsy turvy and sometimes disappointing.
OS.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Oct 23, 2020 7:18:55 GMT
It's a hard one to mark though isn't it? For as much as we moan about the system you can't get away from the fact that the first half was all down to the hunger of both teams. Barnsley wanted it more all over the park and they matched us up with a back three. Their system didn't make them more hungry and ours didn't make us less hungry - albeit there are clearly issues with how we set up at home.  Also the red card played a huge part in the game at a time when we had just equalised. You can't say we'd have gone on and won the game from there just like you can't say we wouldn't have either. Having gone down to ten men O'Neill brought on three attacking players in Brown, TOB and Ince, so you can't say he went all out defensive when faced with a man disadvantage either. You can see why people have rated it low and can also see why people have rated it higher. I don't think it was 'all' down to that Looky. It was as much down to us setting up at home in a way that isn't conducive to us creating chances. This. The system is shite, especially at home. There was a break in the first 20mins when Powell was surrounded by 6 Barnsley players, we had no support for him, Mikel and Thompson do not offer anything creative, which wouldn't be a massive concern if we had 2 superb wingbacks. We havent and this is a massive massive reason the system is wrong for our players. The reliance on powell fletcher and campbell to create everything is costing us, especially at homeus that 4231 suits our players more than any other. If persisting with 352, break the bank for 2 bloody good wingbacks. You don't need to break the bank either, could and should have loaned barry Douglas. Perfect for this system |
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