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Post by walrus on Jan 28, 2020 19:56:51 GMT
No doubt a controversial thread here, so one that I will pre-face by saying that I think O’Neill is doing a fantastic job and I’m delighted to have him as manager. For the first time in a long time I am feeling positive as a Stoke fan.
But my question is this, are we getting a little bit carried away with the MON can do no wrong mindset? Have we been so starved of a manager we can rally behind that finally having one has caused us to lose all objectivity?
My reason for starting this thread is the comments I keep seeing about Gregory and Hogan on various other threads.
Neither player has found favour with O’Neill and almost overnight both are being cast aside as wastes of space.
Hogan is a loan player and it’s been clear that MON wants to use players who are in it for the long term, but for what it’s worth I thought he did okay earlier in the season. His movement was a breath of fresh air and he buried a couple of big chances. We’d be three points worse off without his goals. Since he scored a huge winner against Swansea away his game time has been limited. His goals per minute is almost identical to Campbell’s.
Then there’s Gregory, who has admittedly missed two big changes in his last two games, but in the Jones part of the season was widely commended on here. His goals haven’t flowed but arguably he’s just been unlucky. Every striker goes through bad patches when goals don’t flow, not least Vokes, who now he has found favour with MON is back in favour on here. He scored 13 in a poor Millwall side last year which would have made him our top league scorer in each of the last eleven seasons. He’s cropped up with some big assists too against Derby and Fulham.
To reiterate, I’m loving what MON is doing for us, but is our excitement coming at the expense of a bit of objectivity?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 28, 2020 20:00:43 GMT
You're right to a point but I can't agree about Hogan. He can finish but he offers absolutely nothing else and that isn't enough.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Jan 28, 2020 20:01:08 GMT
I don’t think we have lost any objectivity. He’s just not given us anything to criticise. Personally the way things are I agree with him keeping Gregory on the bench as vokes gives us more of an outlet and links up play better.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 28, 2020 20:05:04 GMT
The cult, as it is being considered, is based largely upon the fresh approach generated by the apparent links to all things Scottish. Hence the saying "Hoots MON".  |
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Post by Goonie on Jan 28, 2020 20:09:24 GMT
Gregory was commended in the Jones era because it was easier to stand out against such a shit show of a side by seemingly to be one of the few who actually made any effort - rightly so
However, the inescapable fact is he is not an efficient chance taker
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 28, 2020 20:13:24 GMT
No doubt a controversial thread here, so one that I will pre-face by saying that I think O’Neill is doing a fantastic job and I’m delighted to have him as manager. For the first time in a long time I am feeling positive as a Stoke fan. But my question is this, are we getting a little bit carried away with the MON can do no wrong mindset? Have we been so starved of a manager we can rally behind that finally having one has caused us to lose all objectivity? My reason for starting this thread is the comments I keep seeing about Gregory and Hogan on various other threads. Neither player has found favour with O’Neill and almost overnight both are being cast aside as wastes of space. Hogan is a loan player and it’s been clear that MON wants to use players who are in it for the long term, but for what it’s worth I thought he did okay earlier in the season. His movement was a breath of fresh air and he buried a couple of big chances. We’d be three points worse off without his goals. Since he scored a huge winner against Swansea away his game time has been limited. His goals per minute is almost identical to Campbell’s. Then there’s Gregory, who has admittedly missed two big changes in his last two games, but in the Jones part of the season was widely commended on here. His goals haven’t flowed but arguably he’s just been unlucky. Every striker goes through bad patches when goals don’t flow, not least Vokes, who now he has found favour with MON is back in favour on here. He scored 13 in a poor Millwall side last year which would have made him our top league scorer in each of the last eleven seasons. He’s cropped up with some big assists too against Derby and Fulham. To reiterate, I’m loving what MON is doing for us, but is our excitement coming at the expense of a bit of objectivity? I’m with you Peter and I trust your judgement 😎 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 20:19:25 GMT
I don’t think we have lost any objectivity. He’s just not given us anything to criticise. Personally the way things are I agree with him keeping Gregory on the bench as vokes gives us more of an outlet and links up play better. He was getting plenty of criticism a few weeks back over his selections, substitutions and refusal to play Ndiaye and Etebo. Turns out he knows what he's doing |
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 28, 2020 20:22:16 GMT
No doubt a controversial thread here, so one that I will pre-face by saying that I think O’Neill is doing a fantastic job and I’m delighted to have him as manager. For the first time in a long time I am feeling positive as a Stoke fan. But my question is this, are we getting a little bit carried away with the MON can do no wrong mindset? Have we been so starved of a manager we can rally behind that finally having one has caused us to lose all objectivity? My reason for starting this thread is the comments I keep seeing about Gregory and Hogan on various other threads. Neither player has found favour with O’Neill and almost overnight both are being cast aside as wastes of space. Hogan is a loan player and it’s been clear that MON wants to use players who are in it for the long term, but for what it’s worth I thought he did okay earlier in the season. His movement was a breath of fresh air and he buried a couple of big chances. We’d be three points worse off without his goals. Since he scored a huge winner against Swansea away his game time has been limited. His goals per minute is almost identical to Campbell’s. Then there’s Gregory, who has admittedly missed two big changes in his last two games, but in the Jones part of the season was widely commended on here. His goals haven’t flowed but arguably he’s just been unlucky. Every striker goes through bad patches when goals don’t flow, not least Vokes, who now he has found favour with MON is back in favour on here. He scored 13 in a poor Millwall side last year which would have made him our top league scorer in each of the last eleven seasons. He’s cropped up with some big assists too against Derby and Fulham. To reiterate, I’m loving what MON is doing for us, but is our excitement coming at the expense of a bit of objectivity? Why can't Stokies just enjoy the moment? There's no need for deep analysis. MON is paid to do a job. He is doing it! Let's get on with our job of supporting him and the team. And enjoy it, because history shows we have a 73.2 % chance of having a crappy season in any one given season. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 20:27:33 GMT
I’ve said all along the pair of them are shit. They both are.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 20:33:00 GMT
I’ve said all along the pair of them are shit. They both are. You also said Jamie Vardy was shit. Remember that? 😂😂😂😂 |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 20:35:31 GMT
I’ve said all along the pair of them are shit. They both are. You also said Jamie Vardy was shit. Remember that? 😂😂😂😂 He was tbf. |
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Post by redrob on Jan 28, 2020 20:58:44 GMT
It’s got nothing to do with being cultish and everything to do with being generally more positive. After loss after soul crushing loss we are long last winning a few game scoring goals and keeping clean sheets. So let’s not spend time and energy looking for things to argue about and just enjoy going to games without a sense of dread!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:06:02 GMT
You also said Jamie Vardy was shit. Remember that? 😂😂😂😂 He was tbf. When has Vardy ever been shit ? You're fucking mental you are |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 21:09:05 GMT
When has Vardy ever been shit ? You're fucking mental you are When he first joined Leicester he looked shite. |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jan 28, 2020 21:11:22 GMT
Is this like the Fu Manchu film series
Next up "The face of MON" followed by "The revenge of MON" and "The vengeance of MON"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:13:18 GMT
Considering where we were when he took over just a short time ago...
-Results have been great
-Performances have been pretty great
-Team unity seems the best it's been since Whelan, Walters and that lot
-Getting the best out of players
-Responsible for Campbell signing an extension and seems pretty vital in if we land Chester or not
-Refreshing and honest interviews
That's just off the top of my head, I'll stop singing his praises when he stops warranting them being sung!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:14:05 GMT
When has Vardy ever been shit ? You're fucking mental you are When he first joined Leicester he looked shite. So his 1st season coming from non league....not like you to not give a player time before making a judgement 🤔 |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 21:16:03 GMT
When he first joined Leicester he looked shite. So his 1st season coming from non league....not like you to not give a player time before making a judgement 🤔 He still looked shite. Then his first season in the PL too he looked shite and had a record to match. It really wasn’t outlandish. 😂 |
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 28, 2020 21:16:21 GMT
Considering where we were when he took over just a short time ago... -Results have been great -Performances have been pretty great -Team unity seems the best it's been since Whelan, Walters and that lot -Getting the best out of players -Responsible for Campbell signing an extension and seems pretty vital in if we land Chester or not -Refreshing and honest interviews That's just off the top of my head, I'll stop singing his praises when he stops warranting them being sung! So What did happen to that "St Michael" brand name? |
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 28, 2020 21:26:31 GMT
I think the most objective person associated with Stoke City at this time is one Michael O'Neil, not any of us who post on this mb.
If that is getting a bit carried away with the man, then I plead guilty.
Gregory has never been a regular scorer in the Championship and earned his reputation in L1, and imagine MON and Jones have had sound reasons for not promoting Hogan into the match day squad. (Well maybe not Jones!)
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 21:31:20 GMT
I think the most objective person associated with Stoke City at this time is one Michael O'Neil, not any of us who post on this mb. If that is getting a bit carried away with the man, then I plead guilty. Gregory has never been a regular scorer in the Championship and earned his reputation in L1, and imagine MON and Jones have had sound reasons for not promoting Hogan into the match day squad. (Well maybe not Jones!) Stoke fans were always going to love Gregory. He’s the exact sort of player most of our fans lap up. Hence why people liked him. But also a lot of Stoke fans accept the managers word without question. So once it looks like he’s out of favour, the average Stoke fan is in a tricky situation. The manager as long as he’s doing well will always win though. Suddenly Gregory’s ability to score becomes an issue where it never was before. Marvellously funny. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:33:03 GMT
I think the most objective person associated with Stoke City at this time is one Michael O'Neil, not any of us who post on this mb. If that is getting a bit carried away with the man, then I plead guilty. Gregory has never been a regular scorer in the Championship and earned his reputation in L1, and imagine MON and Jones have had sound reasons for not promoting Hogan into the match day squad. (Well maybe not Jones!) Stoke fans were always going to love Gregory. He’s the exact sort of player most of our fans lap up. Hence why people liked him. But also a lot of Stoke fans accept the managers word without question. So once it looks like he’s out of favour, the average Stoke fan is in a tricky situation. The manager as long as he’s doing well will always win though. Suddenly Gregory’s ability to score becomes an issue where it never was before. Marvellously funny. I said it from the start Gregory is a poor Andy Cooke |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 21:34:32 GMT
Stoke fans were always going to love Gregory. He’s the exact sort of player most of our fans lap up. Hence why people liked him. But also a lot of Stoke fans accept the managers word without question. So once it looks like he’s out of favour, the average Stoke fan is in a tricky situation. The manager as long as he’s doing well will always win though. Suddenly Gregory’s ability to score becomes an issue where it never was before. Marvellously funny. I said it from the start Gregory is a poor Andy Cooke He clearly was/is but he’s exactly the sort most of our fans love and that’s been shown in abundance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:42:07 GMT
No doubt a controversial thread here, so one that I will pre-face by saying that I think O’Neill is doing a fantastic job and I’m delighted to have him as manager. For the first time in a long time I am feeling positive as a Stoke fan. But my question is this, are we getting a little bit carried away with the MON can do no wrong mindset? Have we been so starved of a manager we can rally behind that finally having one has caused us to lose all objectivity? My reason for starting this thread is the comments I keep seeing about Gregory and Hogan on various other threads. Neither player has found favour with O’Neill and almost overnight both are being cast aside as wastes of space. Hogan is a loan player and it’s been clear that MON wants to use players who are in it for the long term, but for what it’s worth I thought he did okay earlier in the season. His movement was a breath of fresh air and he buried a couple of big chances. We’d be three points worse off without his goals. Since he scored a huge winner against Swansea away his game time has been limited. His goals per minute is almost identical to Campbell’s. Then there’s Gregory, who has admittedly missed two big changes in his last two games, but in the Jones part of the season was widely commended on here. His goals haven’t flowed but arguably he’s just been unlucky. Every striker goes through bad patches when goals don’t flow, not least Vokes, who now he has found favour with MON is back in favour on here. He scored 13 in a poor Millwall side last year which would have made him our top league scorer in each of the last eleven seasons. He’s cropped up with some big assists too against Derby and Fulham. To reiterate, I’m loving what MON is doing for us, but is our excitement coming at the expense of a bit of objectivity? I feel that Hogan seems to get more stick than his goals to minutes ratio deserves in truth. My problem isn’t with him, it’s that he doesn’t suit our team as a solo striker. Gregory has been given stick all season, but it is increasing now because he keeps missing sitters. His conversion rate thus far from good goalscoring opportunities has been poor all season, and frustration builds. Expectations are also beginning to change I believe, as is our game plan. We were desperate for Gregory to chase lost causes at the beginning of the season as we had no idea where goals would come from. His form has dropped, he also isn’t working as hard off the ball, and so whilst the rest of the team is improving, it’s easy to moan at those that aren’t delivering. |
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 28, 2020 21:45:08 GMT
I think the most objective person associated with Stoke City at this time is one Michael O'Neil, not any of us who post on this mb. If that is getting a bit carried away with the man, then I plead guilty. Gregory has never been a regular scorer in the Championship and earned his reputation in L1, and imagine MON and Jones have had sound reasons for not promoting Hogan into the match day squad. (Well maybe not Jones!) Stoke fans were always going to love Gregory. He’s the exact sort of player most of our fans lap up. Hence why people liked him. But also a lot of Stoke fans accept the managers word without question. So once it looks like he’s out of favour, the average Stoke fan is in a tricky situation. The manager as long as he’s doing well will always win though. Suddenly Gregory’s ability to score becomes an issue where it never was before. Marvellously funny. Maybe the fans are just supporting the players? Maybe the fans understand that we are in the second tier now and therefore our players are likely to be limited and unable to provide performances of robotic perfection like you seem to demand? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 21:48:29 GMT
Stoke fans were always going to love Gregory. He’s the exact sort of player most of our fans lap up. Hence why people liked him. But also a lot of Stoke fans accept the managers word without question. So once it looks like he’s out of favour, the average Stoke fan is in a tricky situation. The manager as long as he’s doing well will always win though. Suddenly Gregory’s ability to score becomes an issue where it never was before. Marvellously funny. Maybe the fans are just supporting the players? Maybe the fans understand that we are in the second tier now and therefore our players are likely to be limited and unable to provide performances of robotic perfection like you seem to demand? No. Stoke fans like hard workers. Footballing ability doesn’t matter if they work hard. It’s always (as long as I can remember) been the case. It’s odd. And it’s not support when you’re talking about them on here. This is the place to be objective. To talk about players honestly. Gregory was always going to be liked for the reasons outlined. Nothing to do with supporting our players. |
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 28, 2020 21:52:56 GMT
Maybe the fans are just supporting the players? Maybe the fans understand that we are in the second tier now and therefore our players are likely to be limited and unable to provide performances of robotic perfection like you seem to demand? No. Stoke fans like hard workers. Footballing ability doesn’t matter if they work hard. It’s always (as long as I can remember) been the case. It’s odd. And it’s not support when you’re talking about them on here. This is the place to be objective. To talk about players honestly. Gregory was always going to be liked for the reasons outlined. Nothing to do with supporting our players. I don’t. All of my favourite players over the years have been classy technical players. That’s a massive generalisation on your part. Patronising actually. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2020 21:57:18 GMT
No. Stoke fans like hard workers. Footballing ability doesn’t matter if they work hard. It’s always (as long as I can remember) been the case. It’s odd. And it’s not support when you’re talking about them on here. This is the place to be objective. To talk about players honestly. Gregory was always going to be liked for the reasons outlined. Nothing to do with supporting our players. I don’t. All of my favourite players over the years have been classy technical players. That’s a massive generalisation on your part. Patronising actually. I’m glad the tone came through 😂 It’s a massive generalisation. One that is true.....generally. |
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Post by sd22 on Jan 28, 2020 21:59:58 GMT
Join us - Suicide pact 2nd May IS NOW OFF!!!
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Post by mickstupp on Jan 28, 2020 22:00:51 GMT
I don’t. All of my favourite players over the years have been classy technical players. That’s a massive generalisation on your part. Patronising actually. I’m glad the tone came through 😂 It’s a massive generalisation. One that is true.....generally. If you think of all the crowd favourites over the last 20/30 years you will find our crowd actually loves the flair players. Effort is the minimum requirement. |
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