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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 18, 2019 20:11:46 GMT
Rock bottom after an easy start to the season. We Bo concede goals for fun. And some posters think we are on the cusp of turning things around. We are improving though, aren't we? We are poor defensively but we've struggled to create chances for a long time and now we are creating them. We look fitter and work harder than we have done for a while and the players look like they're buying into Jones' ethos. There's a lot of twists and turns left but I just don't buy the doom and gloom. We are poor defensively, both centre backs yesterday are his signings. We are disorganised in midfield, he didn't address that in the summer. We have had about as easy a start as we could have hoped for, and we are bottom. Everyone who has got there hopes up because we had some more shots than usual is in for yet more disappointment over the next week
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Post by Bowd1863 on Aug 18, 2019 20:20:30 GMT
The table means fuck all after three games. Get a grip.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 20:21:29 GMT
Said before a ball was kicked if we lose to qpr we could be on to a losing run of 6 or seven , we have to just to ride it out and so have the board , they made their choice in terms of direction or the new prime deciders did and we’ve no choice now but to see the season through .
as I said on day 1 50+ points and some progress. In shape and goals and a changed squad should be the maximum expectation and in that context turnaround is achievable .
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 18, 2019 20:24:03 GMT
We are improving though, aren't we? We are poor defensively but we've struggled to create chances for a long time and now we are creating them. We look fitter and work harder than we have done for a while and the players look like they're buying into Jones' ethos. There's a lot of twists and turns left but I just don't buy the doom and gloom. We are poor defensively, both centre backs yesterday are his signings. We are disorganised in midfield, he didn't address that in the summer. We have had about as easy a start as we could have hoped for, and we are bottom. Everyone who has got there hopes up because we had some more shots than usual is in for yet more disappointment over the next week Sorry, that's bollocks, it isn't 'more shots' than usual and you're deliberately misrepresenting it as such. We aren't simply 'having more shots' and you know it. We're getting into better positions, we're creating overloads and space, we're improving at set pieces. You can't dismiss that when we've been so singularly dreadful at creating chances for such a long time. There are no guarantees but I don't see why you're so bent at brushing any positives under the carpet while focusing only on the negatives?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 18, 2019 20:27:54 GMT
I think we have to accept we're going to concede a few, we're finally starting to look like we might score a few as well. I'll take yesterday, first game I've enjoyed in ages, really looked like we had summat about us.
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Post by mailman44 on Aug 18, 2019 20:31:33 GMT
I would never claim to know nogga like that expert Bayern but I just cannot see this diamond formation working for us with the players we have. 3 wins in 20plus matches would lead one to think hey maybe we need to tweak this formation .... bit of Einstein’s version of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I’m not saying sack NJ, but the FO might want to have a quiet word ....
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 18, 2019 20:37:40 GMT
I would never claim to know nogga like that expert Bayern but I just cannot see this diamond formation working for us with the players we have. 3 wins in 20plus matches would lead one to think hey maybe we need to tweak this formation .... bit of Einstein’s version of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I’m not saying sack NJ, but the FO might want to have a quiet word .... There are rightly question marks over the diamond, but to be fair he's only used it in a fraction of those 20-odd games.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:42:13 GMT
It's hard to understand why we're conceding so many when we're top of the league for fewest chances conceded, at 6.3 per game. Next is Leeds with 8.3 and QPR third with 9. Their worst game was 12 conceded - on the opening day against us!
It really does feel like everything is just going in past us at the moment.
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 18, 2019 20:42:25 GMT
Its all a bit horrific really. 4 wins in 25 under Jones Worst form of all clubs in the league over 25 games barring those that dropped from the PL (http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=formguide) Lowest scorers (scorring half the number of goals or less than scored by WBA, Brentford, Sheff Wednesday) - average of 1 goal a game since the start of last season - worse than Wigan, Rotherham and Millwall No win in 9 league games, going back to April 6th. 3 wins, or are you counting the League Cup tie with Wigan ? Yes, included the LC win
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:44:56 GMT
It's hard to understand why we're conceding so many when we're top of the league for fewest chances conceded, at 6.3 per game. Next is Leeds with 8.3 and QPR third with 9. Their worst game was 12 conceded - on the opening day against us! It really does feel like everything is just going in past us at the moment. I think people are struggling to play past us if that makes sense but they are hitting us on the counter when we were exposed so the chances have been quite clear cut although there haven’t been many?
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 18, 2019 21:01:19 GMT
24th... it's the new 8th ffs
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Post by sufolkstokie on Aug 18, 2019 21:10:30 GMT
I think we have to accept we're going to concede a few, we're finally starting to look like we might score a few as well. I'll take yesterday, first game I've enjoyed in ages, really looked like we had summat about us. 1 game He talks a good talk I grant you. But the results speak for themselves I hope he turns it around, because this turn around is much bigger than one bloke so if we get rid we just paper over the cracks again Why the focus is yet again on the manager is beyond me - the club is still in denial from the top and the match day experience exposes that as they simply cant get the basics right The stadium was at best 20,000 at the last game Where we park was half full
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Post by Gods on Aug 18, 2019 21:43:08 GMT
The table means fuck all after three games. Get a grip. Yes it does, it shows we are 8 points off the pace with 3 games played. Of course it's a small number of matches and there is a long way to go but it is absolutely representative of another awful start. It doesn't pretend to be anything it's not, it simply represents the state of play at a given time. It's no good hiding from it.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 18, 2019 21:48:29 GMT
The table means fuck all after three games. Get a grip. Yes it does, it shows we are 8 points off the pace with 3 games played. Of course it's a small number of matches and there is a long way to go but it is absolutely representative of another awful start. It doesn't pretend to be anything it's not, it simply represents the state of play at a given time. It's no good hiding from it. 6 points but other than that you are right.
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Post by FrankButcher on Aug 18, 2019 21:51:27 GMT
It's hard to understand why we're conceding so many when we're top of the league for fewest chances conceded, at 6.3 per game. Next is Leeds with 8.3 and QPR third with 9. Their worst game was 12 conceded - on the opening day against us! It really does feel like everything is just going in past us at the moment. It's not hard to understand when you watch our defence be static as statues look at derbys first goal yesterday no one closing down the derby players or attempting to tightly mark them just standing off letting them attack and get the ball into our box why wasnt Joe allen not attempting to block the cross?? waghorn wasnt being tightly marked and had the time to get a shot off and bury the chance. Exactly the same at charlton with all 3 goals we were just like statues no one attempting to close a player down or block a shot piss poor defending no wonder we have conceded 7 goals in 3 league games it needs improving or we'll continue to ship goals no matter how good we may be going forward.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 18, 2019 22:00:11 GMT
Its all a bit horrific really. 4 wins in 25 under Jones Worst form of all clubs in the league over 25 games barring those that dropped from the PL (http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=formguide) Lowest scorers (scorring half the number of goals or less than scored by WBA, Brentford, Sheff Wednesday) - average of 1 goal a game since the start of last season - worse than Wigan, Rotherham and Millwall No win in 9 league games, going back to April 6th. You're not allowed to state facts you'll be called negative or maybe even a twat. Don't worry its all going to be fine because we drew at home yesterday to Derby.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 18, 2019 22:01:49 GMT
Its all a bit horrific really. 4 wins in 25 under Jones Worst form of all clubs in the league over 25 games barring those that dropped from the PL (http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=formguide) Lowest scorers (scorring half the number of goals or less than scored by WBA, Brentford, Sheff Wednesday) - average of 1 goal a game since the start of last season - worse than Wigan, Rotherham and Millwall No win in 9 league games, going back to April 6th. You're not allowed to state facts you'll be called negative or maybe even a twat. Don't worry its all going to be fine because we drew at home yesterday to Derby. You can state facts, just provide a bit of balance and context. What did you think of the actual performance yesterday?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 22:06:01 GMT
Hackett as a matter of interest what would you do on the basis I’ve declared my view we have to stick it out no matter what
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Post by newsteadst3 on Aug 18, 2019 22:10:48 GMT
All this someone Is in for hiding talk will be out the window, come Wednesday when we get beat.
Typical stoke, get our hopes us nd then get beat
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 18, 2019 22:14:40 GMT
You're not allowed to state facts you'll be called negative or maybe even a twat. Don't worry its all going to be fine because we drew at home yesterday to Derby. You can state facts, just provide a bit of balance and context. What did you think of the actual performance yesterday? It was a better performance but let's be honest it's not difficult when you look at our form over the last 2 years. Our defending was very poor and we were all over the place. The only improvement was the top 2 but still we weren't clinical enough. Gregory for how good he is chasing and being a menace won't score enough goals.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 22:17:52 GMT
You can state facts, just provide a bit of balance and context. What did you think of the actual performance yesterday? It was a better performance but let's be honest it's not difficult when you look at our form over the last 2 years. Our defending was very poor and were all over the place. The only improvement was the top 2 but still we weren't clinical enough. Gregory for how good he is chasing and being a menace won't score enough goals. Question was what would you advocate we do , I’m very clear lake the next 5 and he stays regardless it’s a two year job .wondered what your view is ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 18, 2019 22:23:44 GMT
You can state facts, just provide a bit of balance and context. What did you think of the actual performance yesterday? It was a better performance but let's be honest it's not difficult when you look at our form over the last 2 years. Our defending was very poor and we were all over the place. The only improvement was the top 2 but still we weren't clinical enough. Gregory for how good he is chasing and being a menace won't score enough goals. It wasn’t just down to the front two that we created chances though was it? It doesn’t actually matter if Gregory himself doesn’t score 20 goals (I think he’ll get a respectable amount and hit double figures) if his all round play is helping the team score. Missing chances isn’t as worrying as not creating them at all and we seem to be addressing that.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 18, 2019 22:31:00 GMT
It was a better performance but let's be honest it's not difficult when you look at our form over the last 2 years. Our defending was very poor and we were all over the place. The only improvement was the top 2 but still we weren't clinical enough. Gregory for how good he is chasing and being a menace won't score enough goals. It wasn’t just down to the front two that we created chances though was it? It doesn’t actually matter if Gregory himself doesn’t score 20 goals (I think he’ll get a respectable amount and hit double figures) if his all round play is helping the team score. Missing chances isn’t as worrying as not creating them at all and we seem to be addressing that. The counter argument is that you can create all the chances in the world but if you can't put them away it's pointless.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 18, 2019 22:32:29 GMT
It was a better performance but let's be honest it's not difficult when you look at our form over the last 2 years. Our defending was very poor and were all over the place. The only improvement was the top 2 but still we weren't clinical enough. Gregory for how good he is chasing and being a menace won't score enough goals. Question was what would you advocate we do , I’m very clear lake the next 5 and he stays regardless it’s a two year job .wondered what your view is ? My view is that it would be very silly to change managers now but it will get to a point if things carry on as they are that there will be no other option unless you want to risk being relegated.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 18, 2019 22:34:56 GMT
Question was what would you advocate we do , I’m very clear lake the next 5 and he stays regardless it’s a two year job .wondered what your view is ? My view is that it would be very silly to change managers now but it will get to a point if things carry on as they are that there will be no other option unless you want to risk being relegated. We aren’t far off the same for now at Least but I’d literally stick with him come what may the manager is not the “ elephant “ in the room .
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 18, 2019 22:37:03 GMT
It wasn’t just down to the front two that we created chances though was it? It doesn’t actually matter if Gregory himself doesn’t score 20 goals (I think he’ll get a respectable amount and hit double figures) if his all round play is helping the team score. Missing chances isn’t as worrying as not creating them at all and we seem to be addressing that. The counter argument is that you can create all the chances in the world but if you can't put them away it's pointless. The more chances you create, the more likely you are to score.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 18, 2019 22:38:24 GMT
Got to get the defence sorted or everything else counts for nothing.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 18, 2019 22:40:12 GMT
My view is that it would be very silly to change managers now but it will get to a point if things carry on as they are that there will be no other option unless you want to risk being relegated. We aren’t far off the same for now at Least but I’d literally stick with him come what may the manager is not the “ elephant “ in the room . Well that's where we do disagree then because the last 2 managers have both had great support financially and have got in the players they wanted to. Rowett spent 50m and Jones has bought in 11 of his own signings. The results on the pitch are 100% the managers responsibility let's not start going down that avenue again because it's been done to death. The last 3 managers were totally the wrong choices (yes that's down to the board) Rowett was a complete charlatan of a manager,achieved absolutely nothing in his management career of any note yet we trusted him with a massive rebuilding task and gave him 50m. Jones is a likeable guy and a very decent lower league manager but again he was the wrong choice, he's never managed at this level and only knew how to use a system that we didn't have the players for and one nobody really uses in the top divisions any more. He is a massive gamble we simply should not have taken. We may as well have kept Lambert if the options werent available, at least he knew the squad and would have had a head start and has actually got a team promoted from this very division before.
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Post by blokesbird on Aug 18, 2019 23:02:31 GMT
FFS get a grip guys, since when did Stoke hit the ground running IN ANY SEASON
Let’s see where things are/how we’re looking mid September onwards, play is improving (sort of)
In some ways I regret the premier league, it’s given us a shit load of sanctimonious fans who think we are entitled.
Oh and by the way, someone care to remind me where Norwich were in the league this time last year!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 18, 2019 23:17:54 GMT
FFS get a grip guys, since when did Stoke hit the ground running IN ANY SEASON Let’s see where things are/how we’re looking mid September onwards, play is improving (sort of) In some ways I regret the premier league, it’s given us a shit load of sanctimonious fans who think we are entitled. Oh and by the way, someone care to remind me where Norwich were in the league this time last year! I've been a Stoke fan for 35 years, I don't think we're entitled to anything but I've seen Stoke managers with a fraction of the current resources down the years doing a much better job.
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