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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 15:05:14 GMT
Wow. That's a doozy. Shaqiri didn't get goals or assists? Bollocks Shaqiri was injured for most of the season? He missed 9 games in his entire Stoke career through injury. I have nothing against Ince, but Shaqiri certainly is in the top 3 of our most talented players for over a decade. He started just 22 games one season and I'm pretty sure he wasn't dropped? www.transfermarkt.co.uk/xherdan-shaqiri/verletzungen/spieler/86792
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 21, 2019 15:10:28 GMT
It's at least in part because of who his dad is. Bollocks. I couldn't give a fuck if his dad was Hitler. I'm judging him on what hes done in a stoke shirt. Period. What he’s done in a Stoke shirt is have half a good season and half a bad season when the system changed.
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Post by ParaPsych on Jul 21, 2019 15:14:22 GMT
So any ideas why he missed all those other games?
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Post by Absolution on Jul 21, 2019 15:15:11 GMT
Bollocks. I couldn't give a fuck if his dad was Hitler. I'm judging him on what hes done in a stoke shirt. Period. What he’s done in a Stoke shirt is have half a good season and half a bad season when the system changed. It was noticeable how quickly after his half a good season ended that people were on his back. By the end of the season many of the comments were justified, but he was given very little leeway before supporters turned against him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 15:29:31 GMT
So any ideas why he missed all those other games? I remember him being dropped when arnautovic got suspended one season, we played Allen, Walters and Crouch as a front 3 in a 343. Mark Hughes was an idiot and wasn't averse to dropping his best players.
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Post by royalewithcheese on Jul 21, 2019 15:32:31 GMT
Bollocks. I couldn't give a fuck if his dad was Hitler. I'm judging him on what hes done in a stoke shirt. Period. What he’s done in a Stoke shirt is have half a good season and half a bad season when the system changed. In your opinion.
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Post by mrteddysalad on Jul 21, 2019 15:43:41 GMT
on a raft in the middle of the Atlantic ocean
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Post by ParaPsych on Jul 21, 2019 15:43:48 GMT
So any ideas why he missed all those other games? I remember him being dropped when arnautovic got suspended one season, we played Allen, Walters and Crouch as a front 3 in a 343. Mark Hughes was an idiot and wasn't averse to dropping his best players. Well I'm fairly sure that website is missing a whole bunch of niggly injuries he had. Not to mention all the times he had to go off early with a muscle problem.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 21, 2019 15:44:31 GMT
What he’s done in a Stoke shirt is have half a good season and half a bad season when the system changed. In your opinion. Without his goals and assists we’d have been in even more trouble than we were. Please do put forward the view that he wasn’t one of our better players during that time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 15:48:21 GMT
I remember him being dropped when arnautovic got suspended one season, we played Allen, Walters and Crouch as a front 3 in a 343. Mark Hughes was an idiot and wasn't averse to dropping his best players. Well I'm fairly sure that website is missing a whole bunch of niggly injuries he had. Not to mention all the times he had to go off early with a muscle problem. I honestly don't remember him being injured often at all, think he missed a chunk of 5-6 games in 2017 but besides that he was ready to play most weeks. Again, he is certainly one of our best players of the past 30 years.
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Post by ParaPsych on Jul 21, 2019 15:55:30 GMT
Well I'm fairly sure that website is missing a whole bunch of niggly injuries he had. Not to mention all the times he had to go off early with a muscle problem. I honestly don't remember him being injured often at all, think he missed a chunk of 5-6 games in 2017 but besides that he was ready to play most weeks. Again, he is certainly one of our best players of the past 30 years. Well I remember him missing loads of games with muscle problems. There was a time he seemed to pull something whenever he tried to sprint. And we only really started to get a regular tune out of him in his final season when he seemed to put those problems behind him. By then it was too late. We'd already lost the far superior Arnautovic and were therefore doomed...
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Post by royalewithcheese on Jul 21, 2019 16:10:49 GMT
Without his goals and assists we’d have been in even more trouble than we were. Please do put forward the view that he wasn’t one of our better players during that time. He scored 6 goals. Hold my beer whilst I get the Guiness Book of Records on the phone
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 21, 2019 16:19:31 GMT
Without his goals and assists we’d have been in even more trouble than we were. Please do put forward the view that he wasn’t one of our better players during that time. He scored 6 goals. Hold my beer whilst I get the Guiness Book of Records on the phone He essentially carried the team's entire creative burden on his shoulders under Rowett. Scored some bloody good goals, provided a fair few assists too. As mentioned above, he was given very little leeway by some, almost as if they couldn't wait to stick the boot in.
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Post by royalewithcheese on Jul 21, 2019 17:13:38 GMT
He scored 6 goals. Hold my beer whilst I get the Guiness Book of Records on the phone He essentially carried the team's entire creative burden on his shoulders under Rowett. Scored some bloody good goals, provided a fair few assists too. As mentioned above, he was given very little leeway by some, almost as if they couldn't wait to stick the boot in. There's a reason why Jones has looked to replace him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 21, 2019 17:19:20 GMT
He essentially carried the team's entire creative burden on his shoulders under Rowett. Scored some bloody good goals, provided a fair few assists too. As mentioned above, he was given very little leeway by some, almost as if they couldn't wait to stick the boot in. There's a reason why Jones has looked to replace him. Yeah, he's a winger and Jones' system doesn't have wingers in it.
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Post by royalewithcheese on Jul 21, 2019 17:21:28 GMT
There's a reason why Jones has looked to replace him. Yeah, he's a winger and Jones' system doesn't have wingers in it. Same for McClean. He found a position for him though.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 21, 2019 17:29:22 GMT
Yeah, he's a winger and Jones' system doesn't have wingers in it. Same for McClean. He found a position for him though. And that may yet prove to be an absolutely terrible idea mightn't it? Just to be clear, we're criticising Ince for not being convertable into a full back? He may yet find a role for Ince, he isn't pushing him out the door is he?
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Post by numberounominion on Jul 21, 2019 17:40:30 GMT
Didn't he start out as a left winger ? I'm sure he played on the left for Blackpool,no ? He's left footed and originally played as a left winger When he was a blackpool, there was a fashion for inverted wingers played on the wrong side... Wingers who can cut in and shoot, but can't cross... And he was part of that and got a fair few goals In theory inverted wingers is okayish if they are Arnie shaquiri types whose weaker foot is still pretty good, allowing them to mix it occasionally and go wide and put a cross in Ince's weaker foot isn't shocking, but its not as good as Arnie and shaquiri
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Post by royalewithcheese on Jul 21, 2019 18:17:49 GMT
Same for McClean. He found a position for him though. And that may yet prove to be an absolutely terrible idea mightn't it? Just to be clear, we're criticising Ince for not being convertable into a full back? He may yet find a role for Ince, he isn't pushing him out the door is he? We're criticising him for having no bottle. For disappearing for large periods. For having talent with little application.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 21, 2019 18:26:12 GMT
And that may yet prove to be an absolutely terrible idea mightn't it? Just to be clear, we're criticising Ince for not being convertable into a full back? He may yet find a role for Ince, he isn't pushing him out the door is he? We're criticising him for having no bottle. For disappearing for large periods. For having talent with little application. All things that can’t really be levelled at him during the first half of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 18:33:12 GMT
While we have the diamond, do we not think we also need a Plan B? Otherwise its going to get very easy for opposing teams to read our game? And would that Plan B not likely involve having more width and game-changers about the squad? So long as we have Verlinden and Ince, we have that option of a Plan B. No one is talking about Plan B's - understandably so, as we are seeing whether Plan A works - but there may come a time we will lament being too predictable. It's pretty clear from the pre season games that Jones a distinct plan B. It's probably no more than a variation of the diamond, but it does include three at the back, which allows the wide men more chances to roam forward. But it's also clear that the wide men must be able to take up defensive positions, which rules out Ince and presumably Verlinden, although I haven't seen enough of him to know for sure whether he has any ability there. If Ince and Verlinden do not adapt to the Powell role, then there will only be bench places for them. They can come on as desperate late subs if needed, i.e. we do away with defensive considerations in order to go all out for an equaliser or a winning goal. But that's not going to be very often, as Jones will win us our first 17 games. By then I'm sure Ince has handed in a transfer request.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 21, 2019 18:51:01 GMT
IMHO. If people are serious about Ince being a prominent player (we can’t do with out) in progressing toward a point where EPL is on the horizon or even getting over the line I think they are wrong.
If I’m wrong I “gladly” take the biggest piece of humble pie that can be served.
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Post by tony1234 on Jul 21, 2019 19:35:42 GMT
While we have the diamond, do we not think we also need a Plan B? Otherwise its going to get very easy for opposing teams to read our game? And would that Plan B not likely involve having more width and game-changers about the squad? So long as we have Verlinden and Ince, we have that option of a Plan B. No one is talking about Plan B's - understandably so, as we are seeing whether Plan A works - but there may come a time we will lament being too predictable. It's pretty clear from the pre season games that Jones a distinct plan B. It's probably no more than a variation of the diamond, but it does include three at the back, which allows the wide men more chances to roam forward. But it's also clear that the wide men must be able to take up defensive positions, which rules out Ince and presumably Verlinden, although I haven't seen enough of him to know for sure whether he has any ability there. If Ince and Verlinden do not adapt to the Powell role, then there will only be bench places for them. They can come on as desperate late subs if needed, i.e. we do away with defensive considerations in order to go all out for an equaliser or a winning goal. But that's not going to be very often, as Jones will win us our first 17 games. By then I'm sure Ince has handed in a transfer request. All very plausible. But what happened in game 18!?
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Post by numberounominion on Jul 21, 2019 20:42:21 GMT
Yeah, he's a winger and Jones' system doesn't have wingers in it. Same for McClean. He found a position for him though. He wanted to find a position for Mcclean, because he puts a shift in and puts some tackles in. But why would he want to find a position for someone who can't be arsed to put a shift in and get some tackles in?
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Post by royalewithcheese on Jul 21, 2019 20:47:34 GMT
Same for McClean. He found a position for him though. He wanted to find a position for Mcclean, because he puts a shift in and puts some tackles in. But why would he want to find a position for someone who can't be arsed to put a shift in and get some tackles in? Exactly.
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Post by numberounominion on Jul 21, 2019 20:49:44 GMT
Without his goals and assists we’d have been in even more trouble than we were. Please do put forward the view that he wasn’t one of our better players during that time. He does have some quality on the ball and can have an impact on the ball But if pep and klopp are not going to tolerate, players with quality on the ball, not putting a shift in and not pulling their weight off the ball ( and they are most definitely not going to allow that! ) . Then why should Nj decide, he's going to let lesser players like Ince, not pull their weight off the ball, for Stoke
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 21:07:28 GMT
It's pretty clear from the pre season games that Jones a distinct plan B. It's probably no more than a variation of the diamond, but it does include three at the back, which allows the wide men more chances to roam forward. But it's also clear that the wide men must be able to take up defensive positions, which rules out Ince and presumably Verlinden, although I haven't seen enough of him to know for sure whether he has any ability there. If Ince and Verlinden do not adapt to the Powell role, then there will only be bench places for them. They can come on as desperate late subs if needed, i.e. we do away with defensive considerations in order to go all out for an equaliser or a winning goal. But that's not going to be very often, as Jones will win us our first 17 games. By then I'm sure Ince has handed in a transfer request. All very plausible. But what happened in game 18!? You tell me. Perhaps we win undeservedly for a change...
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Post by andystokey on Jul 25, 2019 7:32:28 GMT
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Post by nottinghamstokie on Jul 26, 2019 8:24:11 GMT
[quote timestamp="1563724101" author="@lilfraise" source="/post/6490820/thread" There was a time he seemed to pull something whenever he tried to sprint. .. Erm..... that was Muniesa
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Post by ParaPsych on Jul 26, 2019 8:30:14 GMT
[quote timestamp="1563724101" author="@lilfraise" source="/post/6490820/thread" There was a time he seemed to pull something whenever he tried to sprint. .. Erm..... that was Muniesa With Muniesa it was whenever he tried to break in to a light jog.
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