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Post by lordb on Oct 3, 2020 11:50:59 GMT
Well as a left back I stand by that. He was absolutely dreadful whenever he played there as he's just not a defender. Thankfully we have a manager who'll think outside the box and he's looking good in his more advanced roles where defending isn't a big part of his job. I feel you are being very unfair to a young player still just setting out on his career. I stand by my earlier posts above, that we have a young player who has played for England at two youth levels, played in the top tier of English football at a very young age (younger than Pejic or Smith did), then got transferred to a club in steep decline, with a dressing room of wasters and old fogeys. He struggled, surprise, surprise! He was sent out on loan where he has clearly matured, but on return was thrown in at short notice against Derby and had a 'mare. But he came back late in the season after the lockdown and played exceedingly well. This season he has been excellent. I looked at him closely on TV on Thursday and I was taken by how much he has matured in the past year. He no longer looks like a boy, but a mature young man; he has grown up fast. I think he can now push on and have an excellent career, hopefully with Stoke. I sure he will be perfectly capable of playing at LB now, but I just hope MO'N uses him to our best advantage. As I said in a previous post, how many on here could do their jobs as well when they were 20/21? (P.S. I'm not his grandad!) He got done really easily early on at Villa which was was exactly how he looked before at left back but after that when defending he was fine. Out and out left back, still think it's a no Three other positions yes
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 12:00:42 GMT
Reading the comments it just goes to show it's a fine line between a player falling by the wayside and being in the fold. The best comment on here is definitely "Tre Pemberton is better........."
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 3, 2020 12:02:54 GMT
Reading the comments it just goes to show it's a fine line between a player falling by the wayside and being in the fold. The best comment on here is definitely "Tre Pemberton is better........." He was for our U23s tbf.
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 3, 2020 13:54:29 GMT
"He's not even league 2 standard" and "he needs fucking off out of our club" are my 2 faves from my old mate Hackett Well as a left back I stand by that. He was absolutely dreadful whenever he played there as he's just not a defender. Thankfully we have a manager who'll think outside the box and he's looking good in his more advanced roles where defending isn't a big part of his job. You missed the usual 'happy to be proved wrong' caveat.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 8:12:27 GMT
Tymon was one of the disappointments vs Brum, though by no means the only one. Against all other teams this season whether preseason or the cup he's been free to play to his strengths, partly because the opposition have been unprepared for what he can do. Brum was very well prepared and that reduced his options. Secondly he didn't have a Powell to set him up. Instead there was slow passing from Clucas which didn't play him to his pace. But Josh needs to come out of his shell, seek the ball himself, and be adventurous. He will given time. I hope O'Neill, having taking time giving him his start, stays with him a little while longer.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 5, 2020 8:14:35 GMT
He was fine defensively though which has to be mentioned imo given what he's shown before.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 5, 2020 8:18:49 GMT
I thought Josh was crap yesterday, unfortunately. It may be that his best position is left of centre midfield in place of Clucas, who was also very poor.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 5, 2020 8:33:38 GMT
He was fine defensively though which has to be mentioned imo given what he's shown before. That is a very fair comment. He did do a good job defensively which shows his improvement under the current management team. He was disappointing going forward and wasted several good situations in a Mclean like way, including letting the ball run under his foot and out for a throw in twice in quick succession. It's tough for these young lads. If they are to break through, they need to show some consistent good form to keep their place. It's a shame his poor showing came in his first league start where, in reality, the result was way more important than the cup ones. Still, onward we go. I still maintain that yesterday was nowhere near as bad as many are keen to make out. It was a game we should have won with the few chances we had and I'm not sure we gave Birmingham one single chance in open play. I can only recall 1 passage of play where we looked even remotely in danger and that came right at the end. We needn't have worried though, the ball was with Scott Hogan and everyone knows first hand how wank he is. Gregory scores his open goal (it was actually harder to do what he did) and it becomes a different game.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 5, 2020 8:43:02 GMT
He was fine defensively though which has to be mentioned imo given what he's shown before. That is a very fair comment. He did do a good job defensively which shows his improvement under the current management team. He was disappointing going forward and wasted several good situations in a Mclean like way, including letting the ball run under his foot and out for a throw in twice in quick succession. It's tough for these young lads. If they are to break through, they need to show some consistent good form to keep their place. It's a shame his poor showing came in his first league start where, in reality, the result was way more important than the cup ones. Still, onward we go. I still maintain that yesterday was nowhere near as bad as many are keen to make out. It was a game we should have won with the few chances we had and I'm not sure we gave Birmingham one single chance in open play. I can only recall 1 passage of play where we looked even remotely in danger and that came right at the end. We needn't have worried though, the ball was with Scott Hogan and everyone knows first hand how wank he is. Gregory scores his open goal (it was actually harder to do what he did) and it becomes a different game. I thought it was bollocks tbh. Just so laboured and slow. And agreed re Gregory but that's what you get from and why he shouldn't be starting/on the bench/playing league football.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 11:06:08 GMT
He was fine defensively though which has to be mentioned imo given what he's shown before. That is a very fair comment. He did do a good job defensively which shows his improvement under the current management team. He was disappointing going forward and wasted several good situations in a Mclean like way, including letting the ball run under his foot and out for a throw in twice in quick succession. It's tough for these young lads. If they are to break through, they need to show some consistent good form to keep their place. He has to be set up the right way to be effective for the team. Powell plays him in a manner that gives him opportunity to exercise his pace. Clucas just passes it to him in a manner that expects the ball to be passed back to him. As for losing the ball to throws; well obviously he shouldn't do that, and he'll be the first to confirm it, but with Tymon you have to cut him some extra slack. He's struggled badly with nerves over the years; it almost stopped him in his tracks, but with the help of Michael O'Neill, Kevin Russell, and the other academy coaches he's come some way towards overcoming the problem, but for yesterday's game, nerves probably played some part in his performance going forward. It wasn't his debut, but it was his first in one of his new roles, and he possibly reverted a little to his old insecure self. Someone - I've forgotten who - said after the last game that he couldn't accept nerves in a professional. Obviously that was a comment from someone who's never played. I have enourmous faith that Tymon will be an essential player for us in years to come, but we need to accept that he's a little different in some respects.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 5, 2020 11:14:47 GMT
Tymon was one of the disappointments vs Brum, though by no means the only one. Against all other teams this season whether preseason or the cup he's been free to play to his strengths, partly because the opposition have been unprepared for what he can do. Brum was very well prepared and that reduced his options. Secondly he didn't have a Powell to set him up. Instead there was slow passing from Clucas which didn't play him to his pace. But Josh needs to come out of his shell, seek the ball himself, and be adventurous. He will given time. I hope O'Neill, having taking time giving him his start, stays with him a little while longer. Your point about not having Powell to set him up is a good one. I wondered several times if Tymon's problems yesterday didn't, in part, stem from the fact that he didn't seem to be receiving a pass either early enough or placed accurately for him to run on to. By half time I was hoping MON might replace Clucas with Thompson who seems to be a cut above Clucas in terms of incisive passing. I never thought I would be saying this but I think a lot of our problems yesterday were down to Clucas - for some reason he isn't the performer he was for much of last season.
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Post by robwahlmann on Oct 5, 2020 11:20:21 GMT
Tymon was one of the disappointments vs Brum, though by no means the only one. Against all other teams this season whether preseason or the cup he's been free to play to his strengths, partly because the opposition have been unprepared for what he can do. Brum was very well prepared and that reduced his options. Secondly he didn't have a Powell to set him up. Instead there was slow passing from Clucas which didn't play him to his pace. But Josh needs to come out of his shell, seek the ball himself, and be adventurous. He will given time. I hope O'Neill, having taking time giving him his start, stays with him a little while longer. Your point about not having Powell to set him up is a good one. I wondered several times if Tymon's problems yesterday didn't, in part, stem from the fact that he didn't seem to be receiving a pass either early enough or placed accurately for him to run on to. By half time I was hoping MON might replace Clucas with Thompson who seems to be a cut above Clucas in terms of incisive passing. I never thought I would be saying this but I think a lot of our problems yesterday were down to Clucas - for some reason he isn't the performer he was for much of last season. I agree, Clucas has been a let down so far, but he still gets into these good goalscoring positions. Both in our last game and yesterday he managed to get into such a position where he actually should have scored. Last season he might have done that, but not so far this season. If he had scored in both these games we probably would have had no complaints about him, but he didn't!
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 5, 2020 11:26:53 GMT
Tymon was one of the disappointments vs Brum, though by no means the only one. Against all other teams this season whether preseason or the cup he's been free to play to his strengths, partly because the opposition have been unprepared for what he can do. Brum was very well prepared and that reduced his options. Secondly he didn't have a Powell to set him up. Instead there was slow passing from Clucas which didn't play him to his pace. But Josh needs to come out of his shell, seek the ball himself, and be adventurous. He will given time. I hope O'Neill, having taking time giving him his start, stays with him a little while longer. Your point about not having Powell to set him up is a good one. I wondered several times if Tymon's problems yesterday didn't, in part, stem from the fact that he didn't seem to be receiving a pass either early enough or placed accurately for him to run on to. By half time I was hoping MON might replace Clucas with Thompson who seems to be a cut above Clucas in terms of incisive passing. I never thought I would be saying this but I think a lot of our problems yesterday were down to Clucas - for some reason he isn't the performer he was for much of last season. Service into a wide player is as important as good service into a striker and whilst those points above are valid, and whilst there are mitigating circumstances, Powell has not started this season particularly well. He didn't finish last season that well, individually either. The bit of luck with the deflected goal will hopefully get him going again. If we are going to be a genuine goal threat, you have to think much of that will be reliant on his quality.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 5, 2020 12:20:21 GMT
Your point about not having Powell to set him up is a good one. I wondered several times if Tymon's problems yesterday didn't, in part, stem from the fact that he didn't seem to be receiving a pass either early enough or placed accurately for him to run on to. By half time I was hoping MON might replace Clucas with Thompson who seems to be a cut above Clucas in terms of incisive passing. I never thought I would be saying this but I think a lot of our problems yesterday were down to Clucas - for some reason he isn't the performer he was for much of last season. Service into a wide player is as important as good service into a striker and whilst those points above are valid, and whilst there are mitigating circumstances, Powell has not started this season particularly well. He didn't finish last season that well, individually either. The bit of luck with the deflected goal will hopefully get him going again. If we are going to be a genuine goal threat, you have to think much of that will be reliant on his quality. I agree about Powell's indiferent form recently, which is the main reason I was hoping for Clucas to be replaced with Thompson at half time. I think (well hope, really) that Thompson's improved passing would have benefited Tymon and TOB/Powell - whichever of those two was on the pitch during the second half.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 12:49:00 GMT
Tymon was one of the disappointments vs Brum, though by no means the only one. Against all other teams this season whether preseason or the cup he's been free to play to his strengths, partly because the opposition have been unprepared for what he can do. Brum was very well prepared and that reduced his options. Secondly he didn't have a Powell to set him up. Instead there was slow passing from Clucas which didn't play him to his pace. But Josh needs to come out of his shell, seek the ball himself, and be adventurous. He will given time. I hope O'Neill, having taking time giving him his start, stays with him a little while longer. Your point about not having Powell to set him up is a good one. I wondered several times if Tymon's problems yesterday didn't, in part, stem from the fact that he didn't seem to be receiving a pass either early enough or placed accurately for him to run on to. By half time I was hoping MON might replace Clucas with Thompson who seems to be a cut above Clucas in terms of incisive passing. I never thought I would be saying this but I think a lot of our problems yesterday were down to Clucas - for some reason he isn't the performer he was for much of last season. I'm not a Clucas fan - his goals disguise his many inadequte performances. Still, on top of being our most recent topscorer, he's our current (stand-in) captain. Not many managers, certainly not one so conservative as O'Neill, would undermine the team leader by hauling him off at half time for a young player who's only played a couple of good mickey mouse cup games. Perhaps when Allen returns to reclaim the band, Clucas' position in the team will be up for discussion.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Oct 5, 2020 12:50:39 GMT
He was fine defensively though which has to be mentioned imo given what he's shown before. Sort from being caught out several times by balls being played inside him, one of which led to the corner they scored from
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Post by chiswickpotter on Oct 5, 2020 12:52:26 GMT
Tymon was one of the disappointments vs Brum, though by no means the only one. Against all other teams this season whether preseason or the cup he's been free to play to his strengths, partly because the opposition have been unprepared for what he can do. Brum was very well prepared and that reduced his options. Secondly he didn't have a Powell to set him up. Instead there was slow passing from Clucas which didn't play him to his pace. But Josh needs to come out of his shell, seek the ball himself, and be adventurous. He will given time. I hope O'Neill, having taking time giving him his start, stays with him a little while longer. Your point about not having Powell to set him up is a good one. I wondered several times if Tymon's problems yesterday didn't, in part, stem from the fact that he didn't seem to be receiving a pass either early enough or placed accurately for him to run on to. By half time I was hoping MON might replace Clucas with Thompson who seems to be a cut above Clucas in terms of incisive passing. I never thought I would be saying this but I think a lot of our problems yesterday were down to Clucas - for some reason he isn't the performer he was for much of last season. He isn’t a player who dribbled past people. Brim spotted this and closed him quickly. His position is left of a three in midfield when he can run on beyond the strikers. We don’t have a wing back in the club
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 5, 2020 13:54:36 GMT
I don't think we massively helped him yesterday - Clucas and Mikel both drifted over to his side quite often and crowded him out a bit. Plus we took that long playing a ball out from the back it was pretty easy for them to close him down. He was pushing further forward than Smith but didn't offer much of a threat unfortunately.
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