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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 4, 2019 15:13:43 GMT
He admitted he starting shooting because it's better than his crossing. That's not what you want from your fullback in a system where they are your wide outlets. Let's not re-write history, even at his peak Erik was absolute tosh going forward and we all know it. I'm not re-writing history but in the absence of this magical attacking full back appearing Erik is a perfectly competent championship standard left back so until such player is brought in and who knows who that will be now JJ has gone to Leicester, this seems odd to me. If in a month, we haven't signed anyone and we have a massive gaping whole on the left side then you'll have a point. As is, the manager has made it clear he doesn't want him and wants to try another option. I don't understand why he should be criticised for that?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 15:15:02 GMT
They can't let you down by lack of talent. Diouf, Bauer, Bojan, Tymons, Cameron, and Pieters were bought as is. You can blame the club for buying them but you can't blame the players for who they are. So you are very wrong in saying "most" when it applies to 1-3 players. Fwiw I don't think Imbula and Wimmer let us down. They were badly managed, and in Imbula's case there was a culture clash, in which he didn't help himself but he also wasn't helped by the club. Fair enough opinions, I think Wimmer and Imbula did let us down a lot but your argument is fair. However, the wider point of bringing back players who haven't performed for this club in recent years be it through attitude or not being good enough, justifying why the manager wants to try other options stands doesn't it? I don't Jones can be critcised for leaving them at home when the evidence is there for all to see that it's time to move on. He's criticised for bringing in players that people don't think will be good enough, but then also criticised for not taking those who have PROVEN not to be good enough with him on pre-season and wanting to sell. The bloke can't win. All these players have been proven to not be good enough and the likes of Afobe, Ince, Clucas, Woods, McClean have? Rowett's signings were the ones who let us down last season were they not and before that the likes of Jese and Choupo? I genuinely can't see how that list of players is worse than than what we have. In fact, I honestly think our bomb squad would beat our first team. I would like to see that as a pre season match!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 4, 2019 15:18:42 GMT
Fair enough opinions, I think Wimmer and Imbula did let us down a lot but your argument is fair. However, the wider point of bringing back players who haven't performed for this club in recent years be it through attitude or not being good enough, justifying why the manager wants to try other options stands doesn't it? I don't Jones can be critcised for leaving them at home when the evidence is there for all to see that it's time to move on. He's criticised for bringing in players that people don't think will be good enough, but then also criticised for not taking those who have PROVEN not to be good enough with him on pre-season and wanting to sell. The bloke can't win. All these players have been proven to not be good enough and the likes of Afobe, Ince, Clucas, Woods, McClean have? Rowett's signings were the ones who let us down last season were they not and before that the likes of Jese and Choupo? I genuinely can't see how that list of players is worse than than what we have. In fact, I genuinely think our bomb squad would beat our first team. I would like to see that as a pre season match! It's his prerogative and right to judge what he sees and make decisions on it. I don't want Clucas on a personal level, but if he thinks he can get something out of him I'm not going to hang him for thinking that way. Likewise, I'm not gonna hang him because he wants to get rid of 8 players from an already bloated squad, most of whom have made no significant contributions for the last 2.5 years.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 15:19:35 GMT
I'm not re-writing history but in the absence of this magical attacking full back appearing Erik is a perfectly competent championship standard left back so until such player is brought in and who knows who that will be now JJ has gone to Leicester, this seems odd to me. If in a month, we haven't signed anyone and we have a massive gaping whole on the left side then you'll have a point. As is, the manager has made it clear he doesn't want him and wants to try another option. I don't understand why he should be criticised for that? As is, in 4 weeks time we are starting the season with one left back and one right back. Clearly there was a fuck up in January where Pieters was allowed to leave and we failed to bring JJ in then and all suffered Bruno there for the rest of the season (although he tried bless him). All I'm saying is UNTIL he gets someone else in there's a bit of risk in this approach.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 15:20:46 GMT
Imbula Wimmer Bershino... not mentioned I know. etc etc etc. If you don't agree with my opinion please feel free to indulge me with you superior knowledge. Good bye, run along and enjoy the splendid weather. Everything in my World is looking better, brighter and absolutely fantastic. So no-one else in that list was a parasite but you're happy to slag off players who've given their all this club for years. Nice. Enjoy the weather.
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Post by lordb on Jul 4, 2019 15:22:03 GMT
If in a month, we haven't signed anyone and we have a massive gaping whole on the left side then you'll have a point. As is, the manager has made it clear he doesn't want him and wants to try another option. I don't understand why he should be criticised for that? As is, in 4 weeks time we are starting the season with one left back and one right back. Clearly there was a fuck up in January where Pieters was allowed to leave and we failed to bring JJ in then and all suffered Bruno there for the rest of the season (although he tried bless him). All I'm saying is UNTIL he gets someone else in there's a bit of risk in this approach. Bruno contributed very little going forward but was absolutely fine defensively at left back we didn't miss Eric at all. Obviously we have to sign a decent attacking leftback this window Six players in and a month to sign maybe three more Good work so far.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 15:24:07 GMT
All these players have been proven to not be good enough and the likes of Afobe, Ince, Clucas, Woods, McClean have? Rowett's signings were the ones who let us down last season were they not and before that the likes of Jese and Choupo? I genuinely can't see how that list of players is worse than than what we have. In fact, I genuinely think our bomb squad would beat our first team. I would like to see that as a pre season match! It's his prerogative and right to judge what he sees and make decisions on it. I don't want Clucas on a personal level, but if he thinks he can get something out of him I'm not going to hang him for thinking that way. Likewise, I'm not gonna hang him because he wants to get rid of 8 players from an already bloated squad, most of whom have made no significant contributions for the last 2.5 years. Not hanging anyone. My question was only as to whether anyone else was concerned that we're going into to preseason with only one left back and one right back. The most important positions in his set up.
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Post by Gifton on Jul 4, 2019 15:27:24 GMT
We've gone away to preseason with only one left back and one right back and left the other two behind...I am fully aware we are being linked with new players in those positions but given nothing is certain yet is anyone else not concerned that seems like a bad idea...? It's only pre-season. People can fill in where needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 15:39:57 GMT
Pieters would a fantastic championship left back... In a team where all the width doesn't have to come from the fullback.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 4, 2019 15:47:10 GMT
He has said that these players are not bad eggs or haven't done well for the club, just that they are not players he sees fitting in with his system so would not get much playing time. Having had amicable conversations it has been a joint decision with the players concerned that they would be better off moving on. What is the point of them going to Holland when presumably they will want to talk to other clubs?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 4, 2019 15:54:31 GMT
The Hughes legacy 🤔🙄
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 4, 2019 16:07:16 GMT
Imbula, Stoke’s £18.3m record signing still under contract for two more years, has been linked with Bologna but whispers of interest have been cool in Wimmer, who cost an initial £15m and is under contract for three more years.
Fucking hell.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 16:10:07 GMT
With scouting players 25 times, I'm struggling to see just how we've made so many mistakes.
It's almost one bad deal after another.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 16:13:33 GMT
With scouting players 25 times, I'm struggling to see just how we've made so many mistakes. It's almost one bad deal after another. The problem may be the competence of those that are doing the scouting. There is no point scouting someone 25 times if you haven't a fucking clue what you're doing...
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Post by neddy on Jul 4, 2019 16:14:47 GMT
With scouting players 25 times, I'm struggling to see just how we've made so many mistakes. It's almost one bad deal after another. The problem may be the competence of those that are doing the scouting. There is no point scouting someone 25 times if you haven't a fucking clue what you're doing... There is no way we scouted Imbula 25 times 😂
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Post by bhp on Jul 4, 2019 16:35:36 GMT
Disappointed with Ngoy. Thought he had good potential and would have liked to see him have another year on loan then see where his development is at.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 16:36:01 GMT
They can't let you down by lack of talent. Diouf, Bauer, Bojan, Tymons, Cameron, and Pieters were bought as is. You can blame the club for buying them but you can't blame the players for who they are. So you are very wrong in saying "most" when it applies to 1-3 players. Fwiw I don't think Imbula and Wimmer let us down. They were badly managed, and in Imbula's case there was a culture clash, in which he didn't help himself but he also wasn't helped by the club. Fair enough opinions, I think Wimmer and Imbula did let us down a lot but your argument is fair. However, the wider point of bringing back players who haven't performed for this club in recent years be it through attitude or not being good enough, justifying why the manager wants to try other options stands doesn't it? I don't Jones can be critcised for leaving them at home when the evidence is there for all to see that it's time to move on. He's criticised for bringing in players that people don't think will be good enough, but then also criticised for not taking those who have PROVEN not to be good enough with him on pre-season and wanting to sell. The bloke can't win. I don't accept that quite a few of the players have been proven not to be good enough. Some of them haven't even played a second for him like N'goy and Cameron. Also the current nine are being bracketed in with Berahino, and they simply don't deserve that. He's excluding 1/3 of the workforce at Stoke from working within the team. While he's entitled to select his team, blocking that many players, several of whom have close friendships with the 20+ that are going overseas this week, can only create a bad atmosphere. Also the approach has been used by a number of managers, like hardcore types such as Magath, Mourinho, and others, but it has never "PROVEN" successful and within a relatively short time the manager was out and the players, unless sold, were back in.
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Post by Goonie on Jul 4, 2019 16:57:05 GMT
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Post by Goonie on Jul 4, 2019 16:58:34 GMT
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Post by nott1 on Jul 4, 2019 17:01:30 GMT
I'd take Bojan and leave Windbag at home!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 4, 2019 18:11:51 GMT
Fair enough opinions, I think Wimmer and Imbula did let us down a lot but your argument is fair. However, the wider point of bringing back players who haven't performed for this club in recent years be it through attitude or not being good enough, justifying why the manager wants to try other options stands doesn't it? I don't Jones can be critcised for leaving them at home when the evidence is there for all to see that it's time to move on. He's criticised for bringing in players that people don't think will be good enough, but then also criticised for not taking those who have PROVEN not to be good enough with him on pre-season and wanting to sell. The bloke can't win. I don't accept that quite a few of the players have been proven not to be good enough. Some of them haven't even played a second for him like N'goy and Cameron. Also the current nine are being bracketed in with Berahino, and they simply don't deserve that. He's excluding 1/3 of the workforce at Stoke from working within the team. While he's entitled to select his team, blocking that many players, several of whom have close friendships with the 20+ that are going overseas this week, can only create a bad atmosphere. Also the approach has been used by a number of managers, like hardcore types such as Magath, Mourinho, and others, but it has never "PROVEN" successful and within a relatively short time the manager was out and the players, unless sold, were back in. If the conversations were amicable and they’ve been given permission to go and find new clubs I don’t get what the problem is. One has to assume he thinks he has better than Cameron and N’Goy to hand and is telling them to shift because they won’t get minutes. The squad is bloated and we have a surfet of players that simply cannot all play. I don’t think he’s being overtly harsh by telling some he wants them to go so he can have his own players in, or so he can operate with the players he considers a good fit.
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Post by GoBoks on Jul 4, 2019 18:17:33 GMT
That's why I say most, not all. For me, Wimmer, Imbula, Diouf, Bauer and Berahino have let us down multiple times. Diouf through lack of talent though not through effort or attitude. Which probably applies to Pieters too in 17/18. They can't let you down by lack of talent. Diouf, Bauer, Bojan, Tymons, Cameron, and Pieters were bought as is. You can blame the club for buying them but you can't blame the players for who they are. So you are very wrong in saying "most" when it applies to 1-3 players. Fwiw I don't think Imbula and Wimmer let us down. They were badly managed, and in Imbula's case there was a culture clash, in which he didn't help himself but he also wasn't helped by the club. Didn't help himself as in refusing to even try to learn a single word of English? Like the man said, he let us down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 20:21:25 GMT
They can't let you down by lack of talent. Diouf, Bauer, Bojan, Tymons, Cameron, and Pieters were bought as is. You can blame the club for buying them but you can't blame the players for who they are. So you are very wrong in saying "most" when it applies to 1-3 players. Fwiw I don't think Imbula and Wimmer let us down. They were badly managed, and in Imbula's case there was a culture clash, in which he didn't help himself but he also wasn't helped by the club. Didn't help himself as in refusing to even try to learn a single word of English? Like the man said, he let us down. No, what he said was about what he did on the pitch. As for G's English, it's just an endlessly perpetuated fake myth. He speaks some English.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 20:26:16 GMT
I don't accept that quite a few of the players have been proven not to be good enough. Some of them haven't even played a second for him like N'goy and Cameron. Also the current nine are being bracketed in with Berahino, and they simply don't deserve that. He's excluding 1/3 of the workforce at Stoke from working within the team. While he's entitled to select his team, blocking that many players, several of whom have close friendships with the 20+ that are going overseas this week, can only create a bad atmosphere. Also the approach has been used by a number of managers, like hardcore types such as Magath, Mourinho, and others, but it has never "PROVEN" successful and within a relatively short time the manager was out and the players, unless sold, were back in. If the conversations were amicable and they’ve been given permission to go and find new clubs I don’t get what the problem is. One has to assume he thinks he has better than Cameron and N’Goy to hand and is telling them to shift because they won’t get minutes. The squad is bloated and we have a surfet of players that simply cannot all play. I don’t think he’s being overtly harsh by telling some he wants them to go so he can have his own players in, or so he can operate with the players he considers a good fit. I asked earlier this week who was going to train the blocked players and there was no answer. We're just going to have 10 unfit players that no one will buy because their rep's been shattered and they're unfit to play. Which means we'll have ten unhappy men knocking about the place. As I said it's a recipe for a bad atmosphere, and it will impact on the whole club.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 4, 2019 20:30:52 GMT
What a fucking mess this club is.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 20:52:03 GMT
Because if Edwards or Ward gets injured we've got no back up? Half as well as he did at Luton would technically be around the lower half of League One. He has Indi at left back Isn't that just going to make BMI happy about staying at Stoke? Now the Dutch international is going to understudy a 34-year old has been at left back.
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Post by lordb on Jul 4, 2019 20:55:00 GMT
If the conversations were amicable and they’ve been given permission to go and find new clubs I don’t get what the problem is. One has to assume he thinks he has better than Cameron and N’Goy to hand and is telling them to shift because they won’t get minutes. The squad is bloated and we have a surfet of players that simply cannot all play. I don’t think he’s being overtly harsh by telling some he wants them to go so he can have his own players in, or so he can operate with the players he considers a good fit. I asked earlier this week who was going to train the blocked players and there was no answer. We're just going to have 10 unfit players that no one will buy because their rep's been shattered and they're unfit to play. Which means we'll have ten unhappy men knocking about the place. As I said it's a recipe for a bad atmosphere, and it will impact on the whole club. They are training with the U23's to avoid that issue Bad news for the younger players though even if it's only for two months.
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Post by tosh on Jul 4, 2019 20:57:41 GMT
Didn't help himself as in refusing to even try to learn a single word of English? Like the man said, he let us down. No, what he said was about what he did on the pitch. As for G's English, it's just an endlessly perpetuated fake myth. He speaks some English. Where do you get that “information” from? Apparently he speaks hardly any English and avoided communicating with his teammates. Imbula and his “agent “ (his father) according to French press reports appear to have scammed us. He apparently didn’t really want to play in the UK, and once they had secured the jackpot five year contract, he allegedly behaved and played in such a way as to to get a loan back to mainland Europe, within a very short time of his arrival.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 4, 2019 22:08:23 GMT
If the conversations were amicable and they’ve been given permission to go and find new clubs I don’t get what the problem is. One has to assume he thinks he has better than Cameron and N’Goy to hand and is telling them to shift because they won’t get minutes. The squad is bloated and we have a surfet of players that simply cannot all play. I don’t think he’s being overtly harsh by telling some he wants them to go so he can have his own players in, or so he can operate with the players he considers a good fit. I asked earlier this week who was going to train the blocked players and there was no answer. We're just going to have 10 unfit players that no one will buy because their rep's been shattered and they're unfit to play. Which means we'll have ten unhappy men knocking about the place. As I said it's a recipe for a bad atmosphere, and it will impact on the whole club. They’ll train with the youth squad surely? I refuse to believe they will be sat around twiddling their thumbs not training.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 4, 2019 22:09:46 GMT
Didn't help himself as in refusing to even try to learn a single word of English? Like the man said, he let us down. No, what he said was about what he did on the pitch. As for G's English, it's just an endlessly perpetuated fake myth. He speaks some English. I said that they let us down, I didn’t specify why with Imbula. But now that it’s being said ironically it’s nothing to do with his on pitch performance because he largely ok, it was due to his approach off it and to the team. Which have surfaced at multiple clubs now.
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