|
Post by tony1234 on Jun 21, 2019 23:31:22 GMT
Nightmare scenario if we sign Harry Arter we could end up with a midfield of Arter (3 goals in 90 games and hardly any assists), Etebo (2 goals and one assist last year) and Jordan Cousins ( 1 goal and no assists last year). The road to promotion of scoring 70 to 80 goals will be a long way off with three of those starting. Hopefully it's all bollox. Stoke have a bizarre recent history of forgetting to sign enough players that score goals Could have even said the same last season:- Afobe was a bet for 15-20 at the start, Ince 10ish, Allen 5, Maclean 1-2, Bojan 1-2, Beharinho 0, Diouf 3-4?, .... You were looking at 50-55 tops. Yet somehow Rowett and many thought they'd suddenly get 70-80 goals! It was just deluded. In the PL, we somehow thought we could cope without a striker capable of scoring goals for the final 1/2 season, especially after selling Arnie. Compare with 2013-14 ish time and the abilty to call on Arnie, Wingie, Crouch, Jones, Walters, Bojan - backed up Assaidi, Adam and a threat from the CBs! The squad just had so many more players who offered a goal scoring threat to different levels. Obviously we've dropped a level, but we still ought to be constructing a squad with the same balance - including 4 proven (fit, ready and able) goal scorers, 2-3 highly creative players and 2-3 others who can chip in. Country mile away. If you look at most Play off teams they have 3 players who score and/or create 10-12 goals and one going on to get 20+ or so and either a goal scoring CB or CM. It was our recipe when we got up - Lawrence, Fuller, Cresswell; Shawx and Cort scored a fair few too. Look at the forward players and goal scoring Midfielders amassed by Derby, Villa, WBA last season.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 28, 2019 9:39:44 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 28, 2019 9:45:33 GMT
Would be better than Allen? Allen was all over the place yesterday and not in a good way.
|
|
|
Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 28, 2019 9:56:16 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially.
I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history.
We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on
Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good.
Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield.
The grass isnt always greener.
|
|
|
Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 28, 2019 9:57:31 GMT
My point being anyone that prefers harry arter over joe allen in any position in midfield may as well take a bath with a hairdryer
|
|
|
Post by gaznandi on Jul 28, 2019 10:23:18 GMT
Just read Parker at Fulham is married to Arters sister. Unsure if that swings it Fulhams way or not.
|
|
|
Post by philb on Jul 29, 2019 9:32:07 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. I would say James McClean for Choupo was an upgrade to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2019 9:33:16 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. It couldn’t get much worse than Joe Allen.
|
|
|
Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 29, 2019 9:33:21 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. I would say James McClean for Choupo was an upgrade to be honest. In attitude and applicatiom but by no means quality
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 29, 2019 9:34:41 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. I'd fundamentally disagree with you on any replacement being inherently poorer. There's plenty of midfielders in the league who would be better suited to the roles Jones needs his CMs to play in. He's already put in a concerning display in terms of positional discipline which was always my main concern in a formation demanding such positional know-how. Not saying Arter is the answer, but there's 4-5 midfielders without even looking deeply I'd want in this midfield over Joe Allen. This isn't even a "Joe Allen is shit" argument either, I honestly think he's not suited to this formation at all.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 9:36:05 GMT
Not interested in Arter at all
|
|
|
Post by philb on Jul 29, 2019 9:38:52 GMT
I would say James McClean for Choupo was an upgrade to be honest. In attitude and applicatiom but by no means quality Yes but where we are now it’s turned into a good swap. I know which one Jones would prefer and that’s the important thing. Choupo was (like a few) only here for the money.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 29, 2019 9:41:35 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. If their positioning is better (how could it be worse) the team would be all the better for it, unfortunately with Allen thats what lets him down.
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Jul 29, 2019 10:02:03 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. Hopefully with a better organised and disciplined midfield selection, including Etebo, we can use Allen in a better way He plays some great attacking passes and working with our new forwards should be a excellent way to use his experience and develop their skills I don't understand the negative views of him, but we all see things differently
|
|
|
Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 29, 2019 10:06:28 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. If their positioning is better (how could it be worse) the team would be all the better for it, unfortunately with Allen thats what lets him down. Im a big fan of Whelan and thought compared to Fletcher he was makelele but cmon Arters not even half the footballer Joe is. Hes played dm for Wales very well heaps but they dont play him here in a more cautious role. Arter would be like a fletcher signing. I genuinely think hed barely be an upgrade over someone like adam let alone Allen
|
|
|
Post by philb on Jul 29, 2019 10:07:18 GMT
Everyone likes to hate Allen but what we fail to realise is anyone we replace him with will be poorer essentially. I accept some players needed to move on but look at our recuitment in recent history. We replaced choupo with james mclean Shaq with tom ince And so on and so on Look at it anyway you want but the squad has gone backwards in terms of quality. Yes those players had to move on but it wasnt for problems with quality really. Allen ticks all the boxes attitude, performance and financially so why on earth would you want to sell for something not as good. Ok maybe those arent the best examples but again I understand the need to move the players on but in terms of quality were not getting any better than allen in a championship midfield. The grass isnt always greener. Hopefully with a better organised and disciplined midfield selection, including Etebo, we can use Allen in a better way He plays some great attacking passes and working with our new forwards should be a excellent way to use his experience and develop their skills I don't understand the negative views of him, but we all see things differently Lol don’t start the anti-Allen fans off again. It’ll go for another 20 pages 😂👀
|
|
|
Post by DC1863 on Jul 29, 2019 10:08:36 GMT
In attitude and applicatiom but by no means quality Yes but where we are now it’s turned into a good swap. I know which one Jones would prefer and that’s the important thing. Choupo was (like a few) only here for the money. Agree entirely but I'll never forget that game vs United, he was almost unplayable.
|
|
|
Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 29, 2019 10:09:42 GMT
Hopefully with a better organised and disciplined midfield selection, including Etebo, we can use Allen in a better way He plays some great attacking passes and working with our new forwards should be a excellent way to use his experience and develop their skills I don't understand the negative views of him, but we all see things differently Lol don’t start the anti-Allen fans off again. It’ll go for another 20 pages 😂👀 Just to clarify im not an Allen fan, thinks hes over hyped. But im an Allen over Arter fan for sure, just surprised most on here arent
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2019 10:14:48 GMT
Lol don’t start the anti-Allen fans off again. It’ll go for another 20 pages 😂👀 Just to clarify im not an Allen fan, thinks hes over hyped. But im an Allen over Arter fan for sure, just surprised most on here arent Ideally we have neither. But would Arter be better suited to this system than Allen? Tbh I’m not sure but I think he’d be more disciplined which gives him the edge.
|
|
|
Post by pez75 on Jul 29, 2019 10:25:11 GMT
FFS!! If Allen is so indisciplined and has such poor positional sense why the fuck has he been the first name on the team sheet under successive managers for 3 years? No manager would put up with what you fuckwits are accusing him of!!
Harry ubercunt Arter is not fit to wipe Joe Allen's arse.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2019 10:26:40 GMT
FFS!! If Allen is so indisciplined and has such poor positional sense why the fuck has he been the first name on the team sheet under successive managers for 3 years? No manager would put up with what you fuckwits are accusing him of!! Harry ubercunt Arter is not fit to wipe Joe Allen's arse. Because they’ve been useless? 3 have been sacked. 1 has won 3 games in 21. We’ve rapidly declined in that time. We’ve been relegated. It’s not a great argument.
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 29, 2019 10:33:17 GMT
FFS!! If Allen is so indisciplined and has such poor positional sense why the fuck has he been the first name on the team sheet under successive managers for 3 years? No manager would put up with what you fuckwits are accusing him of!! Harry ubercunt Arter is not fit to wipe Joe Allen's arse. The midfield has been a disorganised mess for years, that's a pretty commonly held opinion I would say? We haven't been able to progressively pass from midfield since N'Zonzi left and that's reflected in the fact that our back 4 have to piss around with the ball all the time because we can't break teams down with our midfield passing range. That's not an unfair criticism, it's the truth. Would you say that the midfield has looked good in those 3 years? I'm not even saying, sell him I'm saying as I've said before I'd like other people to be given a go from time to time rather than Allen missing all of 8 minutes in a season for the grand total of 4 assists from midfield. I don't think Harry Arter is up to much either, for the record.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 10:36:18 GMT
Harry ubercunt Arter is not fit to wipe Joe Allen's arse. This. Regardless of how good Allen is at different positions. Regardless of the pros and cons of his ability to do different roles to differing degrees. He’s 100x the better footballer than Arter, and from what I’ve seen 100xless of a cunt. Proper characters in the dressing room yeah?
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Jul 29, 2019 11:29:17 GMT
Can he play striker because that's what we really need!
|
|
|
Post by thehoof on Jul 29, 2019 11:40:20 GMT
FFS!! If Allen is so indisciplined and has such poor positional sense why the fuck has he been the first name on the team sheet under successive managers for 3 years? No manager would put up with what you fuckwits are accusing him of!! Harry ubercunt Arter is not fit to wipe Joe Allen's arse. Because they’ve been useless? 3 have been sacked. 1 has won 3 games in 21. We’ve rapidly declined in that time. We’ve been relegated. It’s not a great argument. It’s an 11 a side game Bayern. How you have responded indicates that you believe our decline is principally the fault of Joe Allen as was the relegation- Joe Allen was a fraction of the reason for our demise, forwards who can’t score wingers and midfielder’s who struggle to pass accurately (of which Allen is ONE), managers with strange tactics and even stranger team selections and finally a defence that at times made a colander look watertight all contributed to our demise.
|
|
ash
Youth Player
Posts: 278
|
Post by ash on Jul 29, 2019 12:51:18 GMT
How I wish there was an ability to block posts from certain people on here!
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 29, 2019 13:13:58 GMT
How I wish there was an ability to block posts from certain people on here! There is a block function I believe?
|
|
|
Post by StokeTudoGuy on Jul 29, 2019 13:25:06 GMT
I love Allen, but even I can’t deny seeing the spaces he leaves. If only he could play the more disciplined CDM creator role he plays for Wales.
I don’t think Arter is the fix though.
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Jul 29, 2019 13:32:35 GMT
FFS!! If Allen is so indisciplined and has such poor positional sense why the fuck has he been the first name on the team sheet under successive managers for 3 years? No manager would put up with what you fuckwits are accusing him of!! Harry ubercunt Arter is not fit to wipe Joe Allen's arse. How have we progressed over those three years?
|
|
|
Post by kelw on Jul 29, 2019 13:56:06 GMT
How I wish there was an ability to block posts from certain people on here! Not sure if serious or not but got a few on mine
|
|