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Post by silverdollar on Apr 30, 2019 9:12:28 GMT
He was a poor appointment in the first place. We needed a manager that was use to managing at a higher level. It hasn't worked out, anyone can see that. A radical rethink is needed by the idiots who run the club before we cement ourselves in this dogshit league. What a totally misguided point of view! Can you tell me how you have come to the conclusion in such a very short space of time that "It hasn't worked out" and that "Anyone can see that". When I first experienced Stoke City being relegated twice from the top to the old third division I came to also experience that it takes time to turn things around. I remember crying on the final whistle when we eventually returned to the Premiership. Surely "Anyone can see" the whole fabric of our club has been in total decline with very little chance of anyone turning things around quickly. The one thing our club needs to turn things around is the acceptance from fans that to turn our decline around it is going to take time. No manager was ever going to come in and wave a wand and start us on a climb again. This site is toxic because so many of our supporters want success immediately. It is not going to happen. So many things about my club are great and all we require is a bit more patience because for me the greatest enemy for good things to come is the continual moaning and excessive criticism. Nathan Jones will prove himself an excellent appointment. He is a very good coach with excellent principles but he needs time, at least three years. We have players tied into contracts at Stoke on high salaries who manager and fans can clearly see are not the answer to our needs. Jones nevertheless has had no choice but to persevere and mollycoddle these characters to try and terminate the decline. Wasn't it not long ago that we were conceding three goals on a weekly basis? Weren't we witnessing players arguing amongst themselves on the pitch. We had many fans with passion but unfortunately they were unequiped to handle disappointment in their lives. Since Jones has arrived he has had to work with primarily the same players and their attitudes and appease fans with horrendous attitudes. This season has been one that was realistically always going to happen. Sunderland suffered even worse! Under Jones I think we have halted the slide! We have found out how to work and achieve clean sheets. The fact that we have not been able to score goals is symptomatic of old regimes rather than the new one. It is work in progress! Clean sheets should be seen as a positive. Especially when you consider that we have taken an offensive stance in games. We have not lost that many games! That is massive progress in terms of the very short time any manager has had to turn our mess around. I am excited about this summer. We are going to witness players leaving, we are going to see new players coming in and we are also going to see further progress with young players entering the fray. I believe that fans have not got to think that next season is going to be the year when we get promoted. It remains unlikely that this will happen but I do believe we will see Stoke overcoming their goal scoring drought. Clean sheets and more goals per game will see us beginning to reestablishing ourselves again. It is totally unreasonable and unfair to be on The club's and Jones's back so soon. I will always be a Stoke supporter and if you are like me you should know that there has always been more disappointment than excitement and success so cope with it. I do not think it will be too long before my pride in my team will be restored!
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 30, 2019 9:16:38 GMT
Well the last manager didn’t, did he? For a bloke who ‘isn’t anti-Jones’, you’re certainly at pains to write off all the good stuff and accentuate all the bad. Finding a spot for arguably the best midfielder at the club, the bloke must be a fucking genius! and if that's classed as one of the good things I would say the barrel is truly scraped. He's achieved 2 good things 1) Giving youth a chance but then unnecessarily benching 2 of the brightest prospects when ending the season with them in the team made far more sense. 2) Improved the defence although detriment to our attacking and goal scoring exploits which is generally what Lambert achieved. The list of poor decisions made is far more lengthy here are a few Bottling the diamond Team selections Substitutions Sending Campbell on loan Shifting out Pieters without replacement Handling of Bojan (should have let him go in Jan) If the players weren't so fucking shit I'd also add that he as failed miserably to get anything out of them but like you and many others I don't lay that solely at his desk but I do understand those who do and I'm certainly not going to treat them like imbeciles, like you and a fair few others do, for having that opinion.
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Post by deadwait on Apr 30, 2019 9:22:27 GMT
Latest from Jones this morning on Radio Stoke is that Stoke's poor performances this year have been necessary so that he can assess the team for next year. . . . . . .
Oh, that's alright then !!! I'm glad now that I have sat through all that dross week after week.
This guy is a con-man of the highest order. Get me Lambert back.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 30, 2019 9:24:47 GMT
Latest from Jones this morning on Radio Stoke is that Stoke's poor performances this year have been necessary so that he can assess the team for next year. . . . . . . Oh, that's alright then !!! I'm glad now that I have sat through all that dross week after week. This guy is a con-man of the highest order. Get me Lambert back. What, Paul 'Double Drop' Lambert?
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Post by deadwait on Apr 30, 2019 9:46:18 GMT
Lambert needs two years. Get it ???
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Post by SCFC92 on Apr 30, 2019 10:10:22 GMT
He was a poor appointment in the first place. We needed a manager that was use to managing at a higher level. It hasn't worked out, anyone can see that. A radical rethink is needed by the idiots who run the club before we cement ourselves in this dogshit league. The radical rethink was Jones Stop employing quick fix managerial roundabout Moyes types. Or you end up in the situation we are in. Jones is implementing a new philosophy, a new style and a whole new way that we attack games. It will take time. The club wont be recognisable next year. Patience, patience, patience. IE Daniel Farke at Norwich, you could even say Pep at City (Bigger budget, bigger aims, but the same basic implementation period happened when you boil it down to basic football)
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Post by thevoid on Apr 30, 2019 10:15:08 GMT
He was a poor appointment in the first place. We needed a manager that was use to managing at a higher level. It hasn't worked out, anyone can see that. A radical rethink is needed by the idiots who run the club before we cement ourselves in this dogshit league. The radical rethink was Jones Stop employing quick fix managerial roundabout Moyes types. Or you end up in the situation we are in. Jones is implementing a new philosophy, a new style and a whole new way that we attack games. It will take time. The club wont be recognisable next year. Patience, patience, patience. IE Daniel Farke at Norwich, you could even say Pep at City (Bigger budget, bigger aims, but the same basic implementation period happened when you boil it down to basic football) Well in Pep's first season they couldn't score against us at The Etihad 😂
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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 30, 2019 10:19:16 GMT
Well the last manager didn’t, did he? For a bloke who ‘isn’t anti-Jones’, you’re certainly at pains to write off all the good stuff and accentuate all the bad. Finding a spot for arguably the best midfielder at the club, the bloke must be a fucking genius! and if that's classed as one of the good things I would say the barrel is truly scraped. He's achieved 2 good things 1) Giving youth a chance but then unnecessarily benching 2 of the brightest prospects when ending the season with them in the team made far more sense. 2) Improved the defence although detriment to our attacking and goal scoring exploits which is generally what Lambert achieved. The list of poor decisions made is far more lengthy here are a few Bottling the diamond Team selections Substitutions Sending Campbell on loan Shifting out Pieters without replacement Handling of Bojan (should have let him go in Jan) If the players weren't so fucking shit I'd also add that he as failed miserably to get anything out of them but like you and many others I don't lay that solely at his desk but I do understand those who do and I'm certainly not going to treat them like imbeciles, like you and a fair few others do, for having that opinion. People who say all our players are shit, overpaid, worst team we’ve had etc and then slag Jones off for not getting a tune out of them are most definitely imbeciles.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 30, 2019 10:25:07 GMT
Latest from Jones this morning on Radio Stoke is that Stoke's poor performances this year have been necessary so that he can assess the team for next year. . . . . . . Oh, that's alright then !!! I'm glad now that I have sat through all that dross week after week. This guy is a con-man of the highest order. Get me Lambert back. I heard that and it certainly lowered my opinion of Nathan. What a bullshit cover up story. Start treating the fans like idiots and there’s only one way to go.
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Post by chigstoke on Apr 30, 2019 10:27:59 GMT
Latest from Jones this morning on Radio Stoke is that Stoke's poor performances this year have been necessary so that he can assess the team for next year. . . . . . . Oh, that's alright then !!! I'm glad now that I have sat through all that dross week after week. This guy is a con-man of the highest order. Get me Lambert back.Give me a fucking break
The last good thing he did was get Norwich promoted, and when did he do that, 2011 was it? I didn't understand the appointment in January and I don't get the clamour by some on here for him still.
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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 30, 2019 10:30:11 GMT
Latest from Jones this morning on Radio Stoke is that Stoke's poor performances this year have been necessary so that he can assess the team for next year. . . . . . . Oh, that's alright then !!! I'm glad now that I have sat through all that dross week after week. This guy is a con-man of the highest order. Get me Lambert back. I heard that and it certainly lowered my opinion of Nathan. What a bullshit cover up story. Start treating the fans like idiots and there’s only one way to go. If you interpret that as we’ve purposely been playing shit then you are an idiot.
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 30, 2019 10:48:12 GMT
Finding a spot for arguably the best midfielder at the club, the bloke must be a fucking genius! and if that's classed as one of the good things I would say the barrel is truly scraped. He's achieved 2 good things 1) Giving youth a chance but then unnecessarily benching 2 of the brightest prospects when ending the season with them in the team made far more sense. 2) Improved the defence although detriment to our attacking and goal scoring exploits which is generally what Lambert achieved. The list of poor decisions made is far more lengthy here are a few Bottling the diamond Team selections Substitutions Sending Campbell on loan Shifting out Pieters without replacement Handling of Bojan (should have let him go in Jan) If the players weren't so fucking shit I'd also add that he as failed miserably to get anything out of them but like you and many others I don't lay that solely at his desk but I do understand those who do and I'm certainly not going to treat them like imbeciles, like you and a fair few others do, for having that opinion. People who say all our players are shit, overpaid, worst team we’ve had etc and then slag Jones off for not getting a tune out of them are most definitely imbeciles. I don't want to keep you from your Flint Knapping but just maybe some supporters find it unacceptable to actually produce worse results and performances with the same players and generally similar formations as the previous manager. I would much more enjoyed watching the shit we have witnessed, knowing that the future plan was being tried and tested occasionally and that the free hit he was given was being wisely used.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 30, 2019 10:54:56 GMT
Well the last manager didn’t, did he? For a bloke who ‘isn’t anti-Jones’, you’re certainly at pains to write off all the good stuff and accentuate all the bad. Finding a spot for arguably the best midfielder at the club, the bloke must be a fucking genius! and if that's classed as one of the good things I would say the barrel is truly scraped. He's achieved 2 good things 1) Giving youth a chance but then unnecessarily benching 2 of the brightest prospects when ending the season with them in the team made far more sense. 2) Improved the defence although detriment to our attacking and goal scoring exploits which is generally what Lambert achieved. The list of poor decisions made is far more lengthy here are a few Bottling the diamond Team selections Substitutions Sending Campbell on loan Shifting out Pieters without replacement Handling of Bojan (should have let him go in Jan) If the players weren't so fucking shit I'd also add that he as failed miserably to get anything out of them but like you and many others I don't lay that solely at his desk but I do understand those who do and I'm certainly not going to treat them like imbeciles, like you and a fair few others do, for having that opinion. It’s an improvement considering the last genius in charge didn’t find a spot for him, isn’t it? You seem obsessed with the fact that he hasn’t used the diamond as much, I just don’t see it as that big a deal. He’s introducing many of the aspects that underpin it and even in recent games bringing in some more elements of it. Campbell hasn’t even played every week for Shrewsbury, I totally get why he thought he needed a bit of experience that should help him and us in the long run. The only person I treat like an imbecile is crapslinger, because he is one.
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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 30, 2019 11:08:48 GMT
People who say all our players are shit, overpaid, worst team we’ve had etc and then slag Jones off for not getting a tune out of them are most definitely imbeciles. I don't want to keep you from your Flint Knapping but just maybe some supporters find it unacceptable to actually produce worse results and performances with the same players and generally similar formations as the previous manager. I would much more enjoyed watching the shit we have witnessed, knowing that the future plan was being tried and tested occasionally and that the free hit he was given was being wisely used. So it’s unacceptable for Jones to produce worse results with Rowett’s squad than it was for Rowett to produce poor results with his own squad? We know what the future plan is, Jones tried the diamond in his first couple of games in charge and quickly realised we didn’t have the players for it. Jones likes his teams to get the ball down and play fast attacking football. He’s inherited a squad with probably not a single player you could class as ‘fast’ and very few players who are actually capable of passing it regularly to a team mate. Could he have gotten more out of this squad of players? Most definitely, but he was hired to implement his philosophy and make us a more sustainable club. That won’t happen over night, no matter how much knicker wetting the Moyes/Big Sam brigade do.
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 30, 2019 11:24:01 GMT
Finding a spot for arguably the best midfielder at the club, the bloke must be a fucking genius! and if that's classed as one of the good things I would say the barrel is truly scraped. He's achieved 2 good things 1) Giving youth a chance but then unnecessarily benching 2 of the brightest prospects when ending the season with them in the team made far more sense. 2) Improved the defence although detriment to our attacking and goal scoring exploits which is generally what Lambert achieved. The list of poor decisions made is far more lengthy here are a few Bottling the diamond Team selections Substitutions Sending Campbell on loan Shifting out Pieters without replacement Handling of Bojan (should have let him go in Jan) If the players weren't so fucking shit I'd also add that he as failed miserably to get anything out of them but like you and many others I don't lay that solely at his desk but I do understand those who do and I'm certainly not going to treat them like imbeciles, like you and a fair few others do, for having that opinion. It’s an improvement considering the last genius in charge didn’t find a spot for him, isn’t it? You seem obsessed with the fact that he hasn’t used the diamond as much, I just don’t see it as that big a deal. He’s introducing many of the aspects that underpin it and even in recent games bringing in some more elements of it. Campbell hasn’t even played every week for Shrewsbury, I totally get why he thought he needed a bit of experience that should help him and us in the long run. The only person I treat like an imbecile is crapslinger, because he is one. Considering how well these players handled it in his first few games I'm sure you can forgive me for being obsessed with the fact that it's his biggest hurdle to overcome. That and the club reversing their wonderful record of the past 4 or 5 transfer windows in supplying the potential list for him to select from. We won't be seeing players on loan returning except Souttar and Campbell, we will lose players we haven't seen much of Bauer, Bojan, Diouf, Woods and Saido, along with those who are out of contract (another 3) and we will possibly lose 2 or 3 who will attract interest (Butland, Allan(please), Etebo, BMI). That leaves us with the core of Rowetts signings with the majority of the defence intact, How many of those will suit his diamond at this point in time? Apart from the defence the rest just don't fit, that's why I bang on about getting back to the diamond at the earliest possible time to at least get these players having a chance to contribute positively along with any new recruits.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 30, 2019 11:29:57 GMT
Do some people seriously think he'll be sacked? I mean, seriously believe the Coates family is considering removing him? His immediate predecessor was hauled in to a room and summarily fired with a far better record over a similar duration. Having said that I don't think it's likely but that's only because we can't keep sacking managers and he seems like a good bloke. Look, Rowett bit off more than he could chew. He was appointed when the SCFC powers that be fell for the herring rouge.... experience. He had experience at this level and that was deemed to be decisive. He thought with a budget to spend and a stable club he would be able to steer us back with the minimum of fuss. That he lacks the method required to win lots of games (and that's what promotion requires) escaped his notice. He forgot we'd been relegated and didn't do enough to sort out the downcast mood of the club. He spent a load of money on some of his own players and, quite frankly, they were patchy at best. When it was clear the season was going to shit he had to go. He wasn't going to revive the season. He could cling to the deceptive unbeaten run but over Chrimbo we were dreadful. Utterly crap. He had to go. His position was untenable. His successor inherited a calamity. As for Jonesy's record, well, I do feel only three wins, even bearing in mind what he walked into on arrival, is really poor. We should have won more games under his managership, there's no doubt about that. At the same time, to ignore the state of the team and club when he joined us is sheer obstinacy. He can't be judged independently of that catastrophe he walked into. As for the future, he needs a close season to be able to say it's well and truly his team. In August he will have been our manager for seven months and gone through a pre season. Then we'll start to make valid judgments on his suitability to manage us.
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Post by tosh on Apr 30, 2019 11:49:12 GMT
I don't want to keep you from your Flint Knapping but just maybe some supporters find it unacceptable to actually produce worse results and performances with the same players and generally similar formations as the previous manager. I would much more enjoyed watching the shit we have witnessed, knowing that the future plan was being tried and tested occasionally and that the free hit he was given was being wisely used. So it’s unacceptable for Jones to produce worse results with Rowett’s squad than it was for Rowett to produce poor results with his own squad? We know what the future plan is, Jones tried the diamond in his first couple of games in charge and quickly realised we didn’t have the players for it. Jones likes his teams to get the ball down and play fast attacking football. He’s inherited a squad with probably not a single player you could class as ‘fast’ and very few players who are actually capable of passing it regularly to a team mate. Could he have gotten more out of this squad of players? Most definitely, but he was hired to implement his philosophy and make us a more sustainable club. That won’t happen over night, no matter how much knicker wetting the Moyes/Big Sam brigade do. All incoming managers have to do the best they can with what they take over. It has still to be a results business whilst you are rebuilding. Rowett left us in 14th position after his 24/25? games Under Jones with the same squad and about an extra £15M spent, we are the 19th best team (taking everyone ‘s last 19 games only into account). Surely everyone should be just a little concerned by that, not to mention his extravagant praise of Ince and Clucas etc., in contradiction of what we are seeing with our own eyes. Hopefully that might just be a sales pitch? Personally based on what I’ve seen and heard so far I’m less confident than I was.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 11:50:48 GMT
Latest from Jones this morning on Radio Stoke is that Stoke's poor performances this year have been necessary so that he can assess the team for next year. . . . . . . Oh, that's alright then !!! I'm glad now that I have sat through all that dross week after week. This guy is a con-man of the highest order. Get me Lambert back. 😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by peekay67 on Apr 30, 2019 11:52:58 GMT
Of course we will keep him. He knows who he wants to retain. Transfer to man up and get rid of our deadwood. Bring in younger, hungrier players to fit our chosen formation. Then we will see the value of Nargan. I hope.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 30, 2019 12:12:39 GMT
It’s an improvement considering the last genius in charge didn’t find a spot for him, isn’t it? You seem obsessed with the fact that he hasn’t used the diamond as much, I just don’t see it as that big a deal. He’s introducing many of the aspects that underpin it and even in recent games bringing in some more elements of it. Campbell hasn’t even played every week for Shrewsbury, I totally get why he thought he needed a bit of experience that should help him and us in the long run. The only person I treat like an imbecile is crapslinger, because he is one. Considering how well these players handled it in his first few games I'm sure you can forgive me for being obsessed with the fact that it's his biggest hurdle to overcome. That and the club reversing their wonderful record of the past 4 or 5 transfer windows in supplying the potential list for him to select from. We won't be seeing players on loan returning except Souttar and Campbell, we will lose players we haven't seen much of Bauer, Bojan, Diouf, Woods and Saido, along with those who are out of contract (another 3) and we will possibly lose 2 or 3 who will attract interest (Butland, Allan(please), Etebo, BMI). That leaves us with the core of Rowetts signings with the majority of the defence intact, How many of those will suit his diamond at this point in time? Apart from the defence the rest just don't fit, that's why I bang on about getting back to the diamond at the earliest possible time to at least get these players having a chance to contribute positively along with any new recruits. It isn't just a case of Jones picking from a list though is it? He'll have his own targets and ideas for signings as well. Again, he's underpinning much of the ethos that the diamond will involve now, and there is a core of players who will fit it that we now need to recruit to. It's going to take time, again, which people don't seem able to accept.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 30, 2019 12:13:52 GMT
I heard that and it certainly lowered my opinion of Nathan. What a bullshit cover up story. Start treating the fans like idiots and there’s only one way to go. If you interpret that as we’ve purposely been playing shit then you are an idiot. I wasn’t inferring they’d played shit on purpose. I was referring to his comments and casual manner as though it was in his strategic plan. As though he’d managed the situation. I prefer a bit more honesty, yes they have been shit, be humble, but don’t act like it couldn’t of been better. Did you actual hear the interview.
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Post by samwidge on Apr 30, 2019 12:18:23 GMT
He was a poor appointment in the first place. We needed a manager that was use to managing at a higher level. It hasn't worked out, anyone can see that. A radical rethink is needed by the idiots who run the club before we cement ourselves in this dogshit league. What a totally misguided point of view! Can you tell me how you have come to the conclusion in such a very short space of time that "It hasn't worked out" and that "Anyone can see that". When I first experienced Stoke City being relegated twice from the top to the old third division I came to also experience that it takes time to turn things around. I remember crying on the final whistle when we eventually returned to the Premiership. Surely "Anyone can see" the whole fabric of our club has been in total decline with very little chance of anyone turning things around quickly. The one thing our club needs to turn things around is the acceptance from fans that to turn our decline around it is going to take time. No manager was ever going to come in and wave a wand and start us on a climb again. This site is toxic because so many of our supporters want success immediately. It is not going to happen. So many things about my club are great and all we require is a bit more patience because for me the greatest enemy for good things to come is the continual moaning and excessive criticism. Nathan Jones will prove himself an excellent appointment. He is a very good coach with excellent principles but he needs time, at least three years. We have players tied into contracts at Stoke on high salaries who manager and fans can clearly see are not the answer to our needs. Jones nevertheless has had no choice but to persevere and mollycoddle these characters to try and terminate the decline. Wasn't it not long ago that we were conceding three goals on a weekly basis? Weren't we witnessing players arguing amongst themselves on the pitch. We had many fans with passion but unfortunately they were unequiped to handle disappointment in their lives. Since Jones has arrived he has had to work with primarily the same players and their attitudes and appease fans with horrendous attitudes. This season has been one that was realistically always going to happen. Sunderland suffered even worse! Under Jones I think we have halted the slide! We have found out how to work and achieve clean sheets. The fact that we have not been able to score goals is symptomatic of old regimes rather than the new one. It is work in progress! Clean sheets should be seen as a positive. Especially when you consider that we have taken an offensive stance in games. We have not lost that many games! That is massive progress in terms of the very short time any manager has had to turn our mess around. I am excited about this summer. We are going to witness players leaving, we are going to see new players coming in and we are also going to see further progress with young players entering the fray. I believe that fans have not got to think that next season is going to be the year when we get promoted. It remains unlikely that this will happen but I do believe we will see Stoke overcoming their goal scoring drought. Clean sheets and more goals per game will see us beginning to reestablishing ourselves again. It is totally unreasonable and unfair to be on The club's and Jones's back so soon. I will always be a Stoke supporter and if you are like me you should know that there has always been more disappointment than excitement and success so cope with it. I do not think it will be too long before my pride in my team will be restored! Well said marrer .
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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 30, 2019 12:19:48 GMT
If you interpret that as we’ve purposely been playing shit then you are an idiot. I wasn’t inferring they’d played shit on purpose. I was referring to his comments and casual manner as though it was in his strategic plan. As though he’d managed the situation. I prefer a bit more honesty, yes they have been shit, be humble, but don’t act like it couldn’t of been better. Did you actual hear the interview. He knows performances haven’t been good enough, you only have to watch him on the touch line and listen to his post match interviews. He’s trying to build something here and implement his philosophy. A large number of this squad will still be here next season and will be starting come August. One transfer window simply isn’t enough to carry out the major surgery Jones wants. If he’s going to the press slagging the players off then he’s already making his job next season harder. I imagine what he says to the press and what he says to the players faces are quite different.
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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 30, 2019 12:25:52 GMT
So it’s unacceptable for Jones to produce worse results with Rowett’s squad than it was for Rowett to produce poor results with his own squad? We know what the future plan is, Jones tried the diamond in his first couple of games in charge and quickly realised we didn’t have the players for it. Jones likes his teams to get the ball down and play fast attacking football. He’s inherited a squad with probably not a single player you could class as ‘fast’ and very few players who are actually capable of passing it regularly to a team mate. Could he have gotten more out of this squad of players? Most definitely, but he was hired to implement his philosophy and make us a more sustainable club. That won’t happen over night, no matter how much knicker wetting the Moyes/Big Sam brigade do. All incoming managers have to do the best they can with what they take over. It has still to be a results business whilst you are rebuilding. Rowett left us in 14th position after his 24/25? games Under Jones with the same squad and about an extra £15M spent, we are the 19th best team (taking everyone ‘s last 19 games only into account). Surely everyone should be just a little concerned by that, not to mention his extravagant praise of Ince and Clucas etc., in contradiction of what we are seeing with our own eyes. Hopefully that might just be a sales pitch? Personally based on what I’ve seen and heard so far I’m less confident than I was. How can you say that Jones should be doing better with Rowett’s squad? Do you think if Guardiola had taken over Burnley in January they’d be any better off than they would under Dyche? Ince and Clucas are going to be here next season, even if Jones doesn’t fancy them. He’ll get a lot more out of them by praising them in the media. I imagine what he says to them on the training ground is very different.
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 30, 2019 12:30:09 GMT
Considering how well these players handled it in his first few games I'm sure you can forgive me for being obsessed with the fact that it's his biggest hurdle to overcome. That and the club reversing their wonderful record of the past 4 or 5 transfer windows in supplying the potential list for him to select from. We won't be seeing players on loan returning except Souttar and Campbell, we will lose players we haven't seen much of Bauer, Bojan, Diouf, Woods and Saido, along with those who are out of contract (another 3) and we will possibly lose 2 or 3 who will attract interest (Butland, Allan(please), Etebo, BMI). That leaves us with the core of Rowetts signings with the majority of the defence intact, How many of those will suit his diamond at this point in time? Apart from the defence the rest just don't fit, that's why I bang on about getting back to the diamond at the earliest possible time to at least get these players having a chance to contribute positively along with any new recruits. It isn't just a case of Jones picking from a list though is it? He'll have his own targets and ideas for signings as well. Again, he's underpinning much of the ethos that the diamond will involve now, and there is a core of players who will fit it that we now need to recruit to. It's going to take time, again, which people don't seem able to accept. He said himself a few weeks ago that is how the process generally works. He provides the specifics on type which gets churned out to Scouts etc and a list of 5/6 potential targets are then discussed. Obviously he may have specific names himself but generally that's the process. It seems you have this generic answer when anyone mentions their trust in the recruitment process. The time it takes to get this whole new era and ethos together is for me now 4 months behind schedule due to the wasted opportunities.
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Post by lordb on Apr 30, 2019 12:34:01 GMT
Well the last manager didn’t, did he? For a bloke who ‘isn’t anti-Jones’, you’re certainly at pains to write off all the good stuff and accentuate all the bad. Finding a spot for arguably the best midfielder at the club, the bloke must be a fucking genius! and if that's classed as one of the good things I would say the barrel is truly scraped. He's achieved 2 good things 1) Giving youth a chance but then unnecessarily benching 2 of the brightest prospects when ending the season with them in the team made far more sense. 2) Improved the defence although detriment to our attacking and goal scoring exploits which is generally what Lambert achieved. The list of poor decisions made is far more lengthy here are a few Bottling the diamond Team selections Substitutions Sending Campbell on loan Shifting out Pieters without replacement Handling of Bojan (should have let him go in Jan) If the players weren't so fucking shit I'd also add that he as failed miserably to get anything out of them but like you and many others I don't lay that solely at his desk but I do understand those who do and I'm certainly not going to treat them like imbeciles, like you and a fair few others do, for having that opinion. 'Sending Campbell on loan' It's been a successful loan, will do him (& therefore Stoke) nothing but good same with Souttar can't say as we've missed Eric 'Team selections Substitutions' - this is a bit vague 'Bottling the diamond' - he's experimented with personnel & systems: in my view correctly: i.e. this season written off by Feb, so lets see what we have got & what they can (or can't) do Bojan point has some traction you mention imbeciles, funny that...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 30, 2019 12:34:19 GMT
It isn't just a case of Jones picking from a list though is it? He'll have his own targets and ideas for signings as well. Again, he's underpinning much of the ethos that the diamond will involve now, and there is a core of players who will fit it that we now need to recruit to. It's going to take time, again, which people don't seem able to accept. He said himself a few weeks ago that is how the process generally works. He provides the specifics on type which gets churned out to Scouts etc and a list of 5/6 potential targets are then discussed. Obviously he may have specific names himself but generally that's the process. It seems you have this generic answer when anyone mentions their trust in the recruitment process. The time it takes to get this whole new era and ethos together is for me now 4 months behind schedule due to the wasted opportunities. 'Obviously he may have specific names' himself is quite a key bit though, isn't it? You can't just sweep that under the carpet. The bulk of the failures have been manager picks. We'll see after the summer but I really don't things have been wasted just because he's had the good sense to not instil his preferred system fully until he actually has the players for it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 14:01:31 GMT
He said himself a few weeks ago that is how the process generally works. He provides the specifics on type which gets churned out to Scouts etc and a list of 5/6 potential targets are then discussed. Obviously he may have specific names himself but generally that's the process. It seems you have this generic answer when anyone mentions their trust in the recruitment process. The time it takes to get this whole new era and ethos together is for me now 4 months behind schedule due to the wasted opportunities. 'Obviously he may have specific names' himself is quite a key bit though, isn't it? You can't just sweep that under the carpet. The bulk of the failures have been manager picks. We'll see after the summer but I really don't things have been wasted just because he's had the good sense to not instil his preferred system fully until he actually has the players for it. He's been very clever with it. Tried the diamond, didn't work. Went back to something approaching familiarity to try and get a hold on the group. Improved the defence and has brought back the key element of the diamond and plonked it in front of the newly produced back 3/5. Therefore testing it and it's components out with some stability behind it, to try and avoid a good hiding with it so that the players don't lose heart in it before he's had chance to get it settled. The fact he keeps volunteering the "I think we showed the competition respect today with our line up" routine after games should tell people that he is experimenting with things.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 30, 2019 17:26:15 GMT
His work this season is totally irrelevant to the long term project. The first review point comes in 12 months. So why sack Rowett mid term. They brought him in to start the change, yes he had a half season free hit as far as results go as long as the massive rebuild and the future plan was seen to take shape. It hasn't, we are no nearer to seeing Jones grand scheme now than when he arrived. The last 4 months have been totally wasted by NJ a massive wasted opportunity to get 20% of this massive job underway, instead the whole process won't get started now until half way through preseason, when he starts trying to get a good portion of this seasons shit to work with a handful of his type of players in his system. Rowett was the quick fix option whose job was to buy the league and get us back into the top flight as soon as possible. Jones is an acknowledgement that this approach failed, and that the very expensive squad that we've been saddled with isn't really up to the job for 101 reasons. His appointment is a recognition of the need for a long term view of things to completely overhaul the way that things are done on the pitch.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 30, 2019 18:20:12 GMT
I don't think it is unfair to suggest Jones could have done a bit better, even given the shit hand he was dealt. New manager bounce and all that.
He does need time and the chance to form his own squad and I'm sure he'll get it. He masterminded a rebuild at Luton and deserves the chance to do it here.
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