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Post by stokeox11 on Apr 28, 2019 10:22:27 GMT
To me his appointment has shown the clubs lack of ambition and you could also say they wanted to get someone in on the cheap. Unless it was decided to get someone in who would prevent us getting relegated and not make waves. This would give the board time to identify a manager who was available (not the usual suspects) with experience who could attract the type of player to get us promotion and keep us in the Prem. Jones's obsession with wanting to play a diamond and his lack of experience in the Championship or Premiere League will weigh heavily on the players he can attract. I am all in favour of giving young managers a chance but not at my club as I want to see us back in the top flight sooner rather than later. If we lose any more momentum it will be another generation of supporters lost before we get there. And before anyone says 'Eddie Howe and Bournemouth', they are not Stoke and that club grew with him as he improved in the lower reaches. Ours is an established club that has lost its way. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem with holding my hands up, but football is rarely a fairytale. When fairytales do happen you will not find them happening to our club.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Apr 28, 2019 10:23:42 GMT
Judging by Peter Coates comments about 2 to 3 weeks ago wanting to see more excitement & more goals before the season ends i would say that things will get very uncomfortable for Nathan if things do not start well next season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 28, 2019 10:24:36 GMT
It was 100% clear with Hughes that he should've gone ages ago though. And he himself was the major architect of the decline. Jones isn't in anything like that situation. The point being Rob that it was the 'who else' mentality that kept Hughes here way too long. We're not there yet but without significant improvement we may only be 6 months away. It wasn't too late for the 'who else' option at that point though mate. With a bit of vision and creavitity when it was clear Hughes had to go we could've still got away with tweaking things rather than the need for wholesale changes. That ship has sailed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 10:25:11 GMT
"The noise" he kept making was promotion is still possible. The fact that it hasn't been anywhere near raises questions about how realistic he is about setting, and fulfilling, targets. No doubt the board was taken in by his talking the talk, but if Stoke have won 3 games out of the first 23 next season, time will be very limited for the man. Well yeh, if that was the record of course it would as it shows no improvement, but if its 8 to 10 wins it wouldn't. We have the pattern set out by his time here which is fact.
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 28, 2019 10:43:49 GMT
To me his appointment has shown the clubs lack of ambition and you could also say they wanted to get someone in on the cheap. Unless it was decided to get someone in who would prevent us getting relegated and not make waves. This would give the board time to identify a manager who was available (not the usual suspects) with experience who could attract the type of player to get us promotion and keep us in the Prem. Jones's obsession with wanting to play a diamond and his lack of experience in the Championship or Premiere League will weigh heavily on the players he can attract. I am all in favour of giving young managers a chance but not at my club as I want to see us back in the top flight sooner rather than later. If we lose any more momentum it will be another generation of supporters lost before we get there. And before anyone says 'Eddie Howe and Bournemouth', they are not Stoke and that club grew with him as he improved in the lower reaches. Ours is an established club that has lost its way. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem with holding my hands up, but football is rarely a fairytale. When fairytales do happen you will not find them happening to our club. What appointment would have shown ambition? Please don't trot out dinosaurs. Appointing Jones is very ambitious.
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Post by chuckrocky on Apr 28, 2019 10:48:00 GMT
To me his appointment has shown the clubs lack of ambition and you could also say they wanted to get someone in on the cheap. Unless it was decided to get someone in who would prevent us getting relegated and not make waves. This would give the board time to identify a manager who was available (not the usual suspects) with experience who could attract the type of player to get us promotion and keep us in the Prem. Jones's obsession with wanting to play a diamond and his lack of experience in the Championship or Premiere League will weigh heavily on the players he can attract. I am all in favour of giving young managers a chance but not at my club as I want to see us back in the top flight sooner rather than later. If we lose any more momentum it will be another generation of supporters lost before we get there. And before anyone says 'Eddie Howe and Bournemouth', they are not Stoke and that club grew with him as he improved in the lower reaches. Ours is an established club that has lost its way. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem with holding my hands up, but football is rarely a fairytale. When fairytales do happen you will not find them happening to our club. Can’t really agree with any of that. Just look at the two clubs who were promoted yesterday. Both of them are the polar opposite of what you’re asking for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 10:54:55 GMT
To me his appointment has shown the clubs lack of ambition and you could also say they wanted to get someone in on the cheap. Unless it was decided to get someone in who would prevent us getting relegated and not make waves. This would give the board time to identify a manager who was available (not the usual suspects) with experience who could attract the type of player to get us promotion and keep us in the Prem. Jones's obsession with wanting to play a diamond and his lack of experience in the Championship or Premiere League will weigh heavily on the players he can attract. I am all in favour of giving young managers a chance but not at my club as I want to see us back in the top flight sooner rather than later. If we lose any more momentum it will be another generation of supporters lost before we get there. And before anyone says 'Eddie Howe and Bournemouth', they are not Stoke and that club grew with him as he improved in the lower reaches. Ours is an established club that has lost its way. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem with holding my hands up, but football is rarely a fairytale. When fairytales do happen you will not find them happening to our club. Sheff Utd and Norwich have proven that young up and coming Manager’s can do just fine in this league. There’s “up and coming Manager’s” in charge of three of the four teams sat in the play off spots as well I might add.....
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 28, 2019 11:16:34 GMT
To me his appointment has shown the clubs lack of ambition and you could also say they wanted to get someone in on the cheap. Unless it was decided to get someone in who would prevent us getting relegated and not make waves. This would give the board time to identify a manager who was available (not the usual suspects) with experience who could attract the type of player to get us promotion and keep us in the Prem. Jones's obsession with wanting to play a diamond and his lack of experience in the Championship or Premiere League will weigh heavily on the players he can attract. I am all in favour of giving young managers a chance but not at my club as I want to see us back in the top flight sooner rather than later. If we lose any more momentum it will be another generation of supporters lost before we get there. And before anyone says 'Eddie Howe and Bournemouth', they are not Stoke and that club grew with him as he improved in the lower reaches. Ours is an established club that has lost its way. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem with holding my hands up, but football is rarely a fairytale. When fairytales do happen you will not find them happening to our club. No team outside the top 6 are "established" in the Premier League - any other team could go down if they have a bad season. Our record of 10 seasons wàs remarkable - but in no way way made us an established club. The fact is once you're in the Championship your history means nothing. Flouncing around making out we're a big club with a divine right to promotion just makes us look stupid. Before we become a Premier League side again we have to become a very good Championship first. We're miles off at the moment. Jones may or may not be the one to turn us around but if the club has any sense they'll give him a couple of seasons and ignore the bleating of our "We Are Premier League" fans.
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Post by mattador78 on Apr 28, 2019 11:25:05 GMT
Like any manager he will be judged on results! He will have to hit the ground running next season or the tide will start to turn very quickly! Norwich didn’t get a win in the first five and they all wanted this guy who’s took them up binned, patience is a virtue
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Post by Absolution on Apr 28, 2019 11:33:23 GMT
If our players were as good on the pitch as they appear to be on paper, then at this level they'd have clicked at some point and given a couple of teams a good dicking irrespective of who the manager was.
The fact that they haven't, despite two managers contorting them into every know formation tells me that in Jonesspeak, we need a bulldozer not a spanner, and things won't be put right until the close season when we can hopefully have the fabled riddout and bring in some new blood.
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Post by Fred Merger on Apr 28, 2019 11:51:24 GMT
Like any manager he will be judged on results! He will have to hit the ground running next season or the tide will start to turn very quickly! Norwich didn’t get a win in the first five and they all wanted this guy who’s took them up binned, patience is a virtue That's fair comment but if he delivers another 3 wins in his first 20 games of next season he will be out of the door. He will be given time and money but he will have to start winning football matches!
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Post by silverdollar on Apr 28, 2019 12:38:19 GMT
I’m up for giving Nath more time but I don’t see 3 wins in 19 or so games the most credible record. I reckon he’ll get a few games next season to sort it out, I don’t think he’ll be sacked at the end of this season but he could be first down next season. "Three wins in nineteen" it is very misleading when you use misleading statistics to express your negative stance. Personally.I have been impressed with what Nathan Jones has achieved since he arrived. You just cannot underestimate what a mess our squad of players and the club was in and the work that lay before Jones.The dressing room was toxic and the team was shipping goals for fun. Surely it is far better to say that since 9th January we have only lost just six games and we have had a good increase in clean sheets despite Jones only having the players he inherited. Only a fool would say that the season hasn't been disappointing but it is about time some of our moaning spineless and whining fans either disappeared or they realised that in no way are they helping the club to turn around!
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Post by biglad180 on Apr 28, 2019 12:48:55 GMT
give the guy at least a full season with is own players then judge him he can certainly talk a good game. and i think he will come good for us.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 28, 2019 16:29:23 GMT
Well yeh, if that was the record of course it would as it shows no improvement, but if its 8 to 10 wins it wouldn't. We have the pattern set out by his time here which is fact. So you're going off him keeping the exact same squad, or shall we look at what he did else where with his own players too........
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Post by neddy on Apr 28, 2019 16:32:39 GMT
The question appears do you believe in his words? Surely we will have an idea by the start of the season as to what sort of window we have?
Here’s hoping 🤞
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Post by camstoke10 on Apr 28, 2019 16:36:13 GMT
Brings his own players in next season which he will, I’m sure we will get uo to the Oren either next season or the season after, he is 100% the manager that will get us up, everyone needs to get behind him only 2 of these signings have been his and one of them has been fantastic
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Post by stokefan1972 on Apr 28, 2019 16:41:38 GMT
Brings his own players in next season which he will, I’m sure we will get uo to the Oren either next season or the season after, he is 100% the manager that will get us up, everyone needs to get behind him only 2 of these signings have been his and one of them has been fantastoic are you on the shandy?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 16:45:10 GMT
Brings his own players in next season which he will, I’m sure we will get uo to the Oren either next season or the season after, he is 100% the manager that will get us up, everyone needs to get behind him only 2 of these signings have been his and one of them has been fantastic Another Jones thread!!
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Post by camstoke10 on Apr 28, 2019 16:46:00 GMT
Brings his own players in next season which he will, I’m sure we will get uo to the Oren either next season or the season after, he is 100% the manager that will get us up, everyone needs to get behind him only 2 of these signings have been his and one of them has been fantastoic are you on the shandy? its not his squad this season, both rowett and jones are good managers, there’s too many players that don’t care about the club, bring in more young and hungry players and anyone over the age of 30 needs to go bar shawcross
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 16:54:48 GMT
We have the pattern set out by his time here which is fact. So you're going off him keeping the exact same squad, or shall we look at what he did else where with his own players too........ I simply don't care what he did elsewhere. The only thing that counts is what he does at Stoke. So far it hasn't been impressive. He deserves his chance to prove himself next season. He doesn't have to win promotion as far as I'm concerned. I think it may be as long as 3 or more years before we can dream of that, but he has to make the team perform in a way that makes us dream. And enjoy going to the stadium. Or even just sit at the wireless. I think there's another method than simply selling 8 players in the summer and then buying 8 new ones - which is what everyone is expecting Jones to do. Just buy the bare necessities per window (currently one striker and one creative mf) and instead build a fine, promising team with a healthy dose of our academy players in it. Give them equally 3 or more years too to become men, which few of them are now, for obvious reasons. I'm not convinced that Jones is the right man to do it, but he's our manager so he's got the go ahead and do it!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 28, 2019 17:00:32 GMT
So you're going off him keeping the exact same squad, or shall we look at what he did else where with his own players too........ I simply don't care what he did elsewhere. The only thing that counts is what he does at Stoke. So far it hasn't been impressive. He deserves his chance to prove himself next season. He doesn't have to win promotion as far as I'm concerned. I think it may be as long as 3 or more years before we can dream of that, but he has to make the team perform in a way that makes us dream. And enjoy going to the stadium. I think there's another method than simply selling 8 players in the summer and then buying 8 new ones - which is what everyone is expecting Jones to do. Just buy the bare necessities per window (currently one striker and one creative mf) and instead build a fine, promising team with a healthy dose of our academy players in it. Give them equally 3 or more years too to become men, which few of them are now, for obvious reasons. I'm not convinced that Jones is the right man to do it, but he's our manager so he's got the go ahead and do it! Well as you're using facts, its a fact once he got his own players in he got Luton promoted its also a fact that because of his set up and signings they're heading for another promotion to the championship. The bare necessities are much more than that if he's playing the diamond, lb, dm, am, stiker at least, the squad needed an overhaul before the season and it still does, ffp needs to be taken into account now not later so we need to start losing the players on big wages that aren't contributing enough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 17:33:07 GMT
I simply don't care what he did elsewhere. The only thing that counts is what he does at Stoke. So far it hasn't been impressive. He deserves his chance to prove himself next season. He doesn't have to win promotion as far as I'm concerned. I think it may be as long as 3 or more years before we can dream of that, but he has to make the team perform in a way that makes us dream. And enjoy going to the stadium. I think there's another method than simply selling 8 players in the summer and then buying 8 new ones - which is what everyone is expecting Jones to do. Just buy the bare necessities per window (currently one striker and one creative mf) and instead build a fine, promising team with a healthy dose of our academy players in it. Give them equally 3 or more years too to become men, which few of them are now, for obvious reasons. I'm not convinced that Jones is the right man to do it, but he's our manager so he's got the go ahead and do it! Well as you're using facts, its a fact once he got his own players in he got Luton promoted its also a fact that because of his set up and signings they're heading for another promotion to the championship. The bare necessities are much more than that if he's playing the diamond, lb, dm, am, stiker at least, the squad needed an overhaul before the season and it still does, ffp needs to be taken into account now not later so we need to start losing the players on big wages that aren't contributing enough. As I already stated, I just don't give a shit about bloody Luton. Yes the bare necessities are 1-11, but apart from those two, bring them in from the academy, and keep the few good pros that we do have. If the kids are not all first team ready, play them anyway, bit by bit, to mould them in the Stoke way. Don't give us more wasters, who have no Stoke DNA tattoed into them. As for "losing the players on big wages", I'm with you all the way.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 28, 2019 18:21:10 GMT
His work this season is totally irrelevant to the long term project. The first review point comes in 12 months.
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Post by lordb on Apr 28, 2019 18:58:24 GMT
His work this season is totally irrelevant to the long term project. The first review point comes in 12 months. I agree However a section of the support will give him the first three games.
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Post by adi on Apr 28, 2019 21:15:50 GMT
Do some people seriously think he'll be sacked? I mean, seriously believe the Coates family is considering removing him? Not at all, but it doesn't stop us debating at what point he SHOULD be sacked. Wasn’t worded as such. In fact it leant more towards a swift dismissal which would be unfair and frankly hysterical, which isn’t unsurprising 😃
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Post by adi on Apr 28, 2019 21:19:40 GMT
What’s the alternative at this point, whether you ‘buy in’ or not? Daniel Farke, but not his bad season. Steve Bruce because of what he's (not) achieved at Sheffield Wednesday. We're ignoring his ability to collapse like a flan in a cupboard at every club he's been at. Tony Pulis. We know there are a lot of fans that would have him back Slavisa Jokanovic. He's turned everyone down but we can magic him here. David Moyes. Turned us down but John Coates will just wave his magic wand and get him here. Sam Allardyce. Doesn't want a job in the Championship but one flash of an Oatcake strapped to Denise's garter and he just melts. The other option is one of them project appointments that takes time to come to fruition. Nah, done that....
Yet all these little voices fail to give anything other than a dismissal, not an answer they are willing to commit to. Sums them up and yet they grumble. Very sad.
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 29, 2019 5:22:47 GMT
Before anyone says anything I am a jones fan I am also a pragmatist He’s got until the free week of the second international fortnight around the end of October / November
No material improvement and looking unlikely to challenge he’s gone giving the next incumbent a few weeks to assess before the jan window
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Post by kelw on Apr 29, 2019 5:56:52 GMT
To me his appointment has shown the clubs lack of ambition and you could also say they wanted to get someone in on the cheap. Unless it was decided to get someone in who would prevent us getting relegated and not make waves. This would give the board time to identify a manager who was available (not the usual suspects) with experience who could attract the type of player to get us promotion and keep us in the Prem. Jones's obsession with wanting to play a diamond and his lack of experience in the Championship or Premiere League will weigh heavily on the players he can attract. I am all in favour of giving young managers a chance but not at my club as I want to see us back in the top flight sooner rather than later. If we lose any more momentum it will be another generation of supporters lost before we get there. And before anyone says 'Eddie Howe and Bournemouth', they are not Stoke and that club grew with him as he improved in the lower reaches. Ours is an established club that has lost its way. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem with holding my hands up, but football is rarely a fairytale. When fairytales do happen you will not find them happening to our club. Out of curiosity...who was your more expensive choice that shows more ambition? Not much around for me
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Post by stokie1947 on Apr 29, 2019 8:58:26 GMT
i am all for giving him time BUT his results so far are poor and his team selections and use of subs i just can't fathom out, so at this moment in time i am not too confident in him at all hopefully it will all change next season and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel
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Post by thevoid on Apr 29, 2019 9:02:12 GMT
Well as you're using facts, its a fact once he got his own players in he got Luton promoted its also a fact that because of his set up and signings they're heading for another promotion to the championship. The bare necessities are much more than that if he's playing the diamond, lb, dm, am, stiker at least, the squad needed an overhaul before the season and it still does, ffp needs to be taken into account now not later so we need to start losing the players on big wages that aren't contributing enough. As I already stated, I just don't give a shit about bloody Luton. Yes the bare necessities are 1-11, but apart from those two, bring them in from the academy, and keep the few good pros that we do have. If the kids are not all first team ready, play them anyway, bit by bit, to mould them in the Stoke way. Don't give us more wasters, who have no Stoke DNA tattoed into them. As for "losing the players on big wages", I'm with you all the way. Stoke DNA 😬 Cringe.com
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