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Post by skelman on Aug 16, 2019 18:05:14 GMT
It seems Jack’s mind has been made up for a while that he doesn’t want to stay, yet he’s consistently pulled up short of putting in an official transfer request. His stock is lower now than it was 3 years ago but it’s the known level that he can and will again perform at that’s reflected in Stoke’s valuation placed on him £30m. This situation has affected his performance levels particularly at the start of last season and is doing so yet again now. With no reasonable offers forthcoming from the UK he has now stated he would be prepared to go abroad, with just 2 weeks left of that window. Besides being unsettling for him it must also be having a big effect on the dressing room particularly when he is seen to be error prone again and playing below par. There has to be a case for arguing that he shouldn’t be our automatic no 1 right now. So why hasn’t Jack put in a transfer request? The argument about unsettling or causing a rift in the dressing room doesn’t hold water as everyone knows he wants to leave. So it’s almost certainly down to lucrative contractual bonuses being withheld if he did. Despite claims of loyalty to the club and fans this is usually the reason most players no longer submit official transfer requests as these payments tend to be spread incrementally over the duration of the player’s contract. It’s not that I think Jack wants it both ways, he’s actually behaving better than many others in this sort of situation but it is affecting his performance level and almost certainly having an impact on the squad and their performances too. Perhaps Jones should be managing this situation in the way Man U did with De Gea a couple of seasons ago and play a fully committed keeper until Jack’s mind is right and he can either properly compete for the shirt or has left? Putting in a transfer request cancels his contract and he’s not entitled to compensation. Sorry that's not correct mate. Transfer requests have no legal basis.
When a player wants to leave the club, they may pen a letter to the coach and board stating that. But that document has no legal bearing - due to the contract signed when they moved to the club. A transfer request is effectively just that - a request which the club can ignore and then leave the coach trying to convince the player that the club is the right fit for them. The risk involved for players submitting a transfer request is that the club might refuse certain payments promised to the player in the form of bonuses. It depends on the terms of the original contract, but clubs will be allowed to withhold payments such as loyalty bonuses. Many contracts work in such a way that loyalty bonuses are paid in one lump or as incremental payments. That's what the players risk losing when they ask to leave. When the request is made, that amount goes straight back into the club.
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Post by march4 on Aug 16, 2019 18:05:28 GMT
Good man!
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Post by nik80 on Aug 16, 2019 18:30:12 GMT
Jack’s our best keeper, therefore it’s in our best interest to keep hold of him. Howler aside, I think some are forgetting he’s streets apart from Federici and Davies. It would be yet another calamity if we lost our first choice keeper at this juncture. Talk of loaning him out is surely crazy. We need Butland firmly on board, he’s a bit of a mard arse but he needs to be shown a bit more love.
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 16, 2019 18:32:12 GMT
And people have been slating his commitment and attitude.
Fair play Jack, hopefully his head is right and we can get back to the level we know he is capable of.
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Post by neddy on Aug 16, 2019 19:25:59 GMT
SL and P have a tweet assuring us he’s staying from the man himself! Get behind him tomorrow?!!!!
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Post by neddy on Aug 16, 2019 19:27:18 GMT
SL and P have a tweet assuring us he’s staying from the man himself! Get behind him tomorrow?!!!! Sorry already posted...
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Post by rawli on Aug 16, 2019 19:31:31 GMT
Roughly translated as 'FFS,I couldn't even get a move to fucking Bournemouth. Guess I'm stuck here until at least January' #prayingforaplkeepertogetinjured
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 16, 2019 19:32:26 GMT
And people have been slating his commitment and attitude. Fair play Jack, hopefully his head is right and we can get back to the level we know he is capable of. A bit of support would do his confidence the world of good. Form is temporary class is permanent. Surely he will save is loads more points than he costs us.
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Post by blackpoolred on Aug 16, 2019 19:47:27 GMT
At his best he is world-class at his worst he becomes a liability and should not be beyond being dropped. He needs to switch-on for a full 90, keep learning by his mistakes and he will get back to the prem - hopefully with Stoke The guy has character, balls, humility and was therefore born to wear a Stoke shirt
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 16, 2019 19:56:23 GMT
Backs up my 2 posts further up. No player is beyond having their performances questioned but to question the commitment of a player who has represented us impeccably is simply wrong. Delighted hes staying and I back him fully to recover his best form in no time.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 16, 2019 20:45:30 GMT
Backs up my 2 posts further up. No player is beyond having their performances questioned but to question the commitment of a player who has represented us impeccably is simply wrong. Delighted hes staying and I back him fully to recover his best form in no time. It saddens me that a pro like JB has to make a public statement to seemingly appease a small minority of vocal numpties on social media. Some of the comments and criticisms are beyond logical and grounded belief.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 16, 2019 20:50:03 GMT
Roughly translated as 'FFS,I couldn't even get a move to fucking Bournemouth. Guess I'm stuck here until at least January' #prayingforaplkeepertogetinjured That’s an extremely objective view point. To coin a phrase.....FFS
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 16, 2019 20:50:33 GMT
It takes a special kind of fuckwit to wish Jack Butland wasn't in our starting line up.
A point which is nailed on given the back up we have.
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Post by strettonstokie on Aug 16, 2019 20:56:43 GMT
Class on the pitch and class off it, if only more pros were like jack I dought we would be in this mess
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 0:11:50 GMT
Roughly translated as 'FFS,I couldn't even get a move to fucking Bournemouth. Guess I'm stuck here until at least January' #prayingforaplkeepertogetinjured Really? Is there something wrong with you? Of course he wants to keep his England place and a move would help with that but it’s clear he loves this club. Ask any fan who has ever spoken to him. He could have acted up and forced a move if he’d wanted to but he hasn’t. He’s a professional through and through and you should have a bit more respect.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 17, 2019 6:27:33 GMT
Big day for him and the cries today could be a watershed the lads made mistakes but at the end of the day
1 NJ thinks he’s the best keeper in the league 2 He’s done a lot more Right than wrong 3 He’s ours
Time for both parties to step up a bit , show some love and get him back to where he’s was good luck Jack we need one of those Game changing saves today
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Post by Linx on Aug 17, 2019 6:36:22 GMT
Interesting stat in the Beeb’s match preview: Stoke have conceded from five of the last six shots on target against them. I though shot stopping was Jack’s strong point.
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Post by jeycov on Aug 17, 2019 6:45:33 GMT
Interesting stat in the Beeb’s match preview: Stoke have conceded from five of the last six shots on target against them. I though shot stopping was Jack’s strong point. There are ( or should be ) 10 players in front of him, half of which are specialists defenders He will be especially disappointed with a couple of the goals conceded, let’s hope he has an established back 3/4/5 to work with
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 17, 2019 7:45:01 GMT
Interesting stat in the Beeb’s match preview: Stoke have conceded from five of the last six shots on target against them. I though shot stopping was Jack’s strong point. That just shows how shit our luck. It won't keep happening but it doesn't help the situation. Like in the Wigan game where the players blocked a shot, and it landed in the path of another Wigan player who would have scored if it weren't for a fantastic reaction and tackle by Collins. Luck evens itself out but we could do with some just to get us going. Jack has made a couple of mistakes but he is still a top keeper. The one against Charlton he is probably getting a slightly harsh rap for, there was a player in his line of view for that one and he may have saw it late.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 17, 2019 7:47:14 GMT
Interesting stat in the Beeb’s match preview: Stoke have conceded from five of the last six shots on target against them. I though shot stopping was Jack’s strong point. That just shows how shit our luck. It won't keep happening but it doesn't help the situation. Like in the Wigan game where the players blocked a shot, and it landed in the path of another Wigan player who would have scored if it weren't for a fantastic reaction and tackle by Collins. Luck evens itself out but we could do with some just to get us going. Jack has made a couple of mistakes but he is still a top keeper. The one against Charlton he is probably getting a slightly harsh rap for, there was a player in his line of view for that one and he may have saw it late. It went right through him mate, come on. We aren’t where we are because of ‘luck’. I like Jones and I still think he might do well for us but making excuses doesn’t help anyone.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 17, 2019 7:56:31 GMT
That just shows how shit our luck. It won't keep happening but it doesn't help the situation. Like in the Wigan game where the players blocked a shot, and it landed in the path of another Wigan player who would have scored if it weren't for a fantastic reaction and tackle by Collins. Luck evens itself out but we could do with some just to get us going. Jack has made a couple of mistakes but he is still a top keeper. The one against Charlton he is probably getting a slightly harsh rap for, there was a player in his line of view for that one and he may have saw it late. It went right through him mate, come on. We aren’t where we are because of ‘luck’. I like Jones and I still think he might do well for us but making excuses doesn’t help anyone. Strange one Jack is just having a blip and he's England's number 1 but when Bego had/is going through a similar phase of his career he's shit and we wouldn't want him here.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 17, 2019 7:56:39 GMT
That just shows how shit our luck. It won't keep happening but it doesn't help the situation. Like in the Wigan game where the players blocked a shot, and it landed in the path of another Wigan player who would have scored if it weren't for a fantastic reaction and tackle by Collins. Luck evens itself out but we could do with some just to get us going. Jack has made a couple of mistakes but he is still a top keeper. The one against Charlton he is probably getting a slightly harsh rap for, there was a player in his line of view for that one and he may have saw it late. It went right through him mate, come on. We aren’t where we are because of ‘luck’. I like Jones and I still think he might do well for us but making excuses doesn’t help anyone. There are plenty of keepers that wouldn't have saved that Charlton goal. We expect Jack to because hes proved how good he is. He hasn't been at his best but dropping him? When the alternatives are Federici and Davies? Maybe it's time to give some support to a player who has earned it and play our part in helping him get back to his best?
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 17, 2019 7:58:38 GMT
It went right through him mate, come on. We aren’t where we are because of ‘luck’. I like Jones and I still think he might do well for us but making excuses doesn’t help anyone. There are plenty of keepers that wouldn't have saved that Charlton goal. We expect Jack to because hes proved how good he is. He hasn't been at his best but dropping him? When the alternatives are Federici and Davies? Maybe it's time to give some support to a player who has earned it and play our part in helping him get back to his best? Dave please that shot at Charlton was straight at him I've seen Sunday league pissed up keepers make better efforts.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Aug 17, 2019 7:58:51 GMT
Interesting stat in the Beeb’s match preview: Stoke have conceded from five of the last six shots on target against them. I though shot stopping was Jack’s strong point. Some people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post. More for leaning on than illumination. Or Statistics are like mini skirts. They give you good ideas but hide the most important things.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Aug 17, 2019 8:01:07 GMT
There are plenty of keepers that wouldn't have saved that Charlton goal. We expect Jack to because hes proved how good he is. He hasn't been at his best but dropping him? When the alternatives are Federici and Davies? Maybe it's time to give some support to a player who has earned it and play our part in helping him get back to his best? Dave please that shot at Charlton was straight at him I've seen Sunday league pissed up keepers make better efforts. I assume you’ve seen it from smack behind the ball and know exactly how much it swerved and what view Jack had of it?
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Post by Linx on Aug 17, 2019 8:05:51 GMT
Interesting stat in the Beeb’s match preview: Stoke have conceded from five of the last six shots on target against them. I though shot stopping was Jack’s strong point. Some people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post. More for leaning on than illumination. Or Statistics are like mini skirts. They give you good ideas but hide the most important things. I don’t have an axe to grind with Butland. Obviously, I would like us to hold on to the one remaining England international we have. But it is a rather interesting fact (and that’s what it is, not just a statistic). It is probably a mixture of bad luck, the odd defensive error from a new defence, and Jack himself. But I’m not shouting ‘Butland out!’ From the rooftops.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 17, 2019 8:09:48 GMT
There are plenty of keepers that wouldn't have saved that Charlton goal. We expect Jack to because hes proved how good he is. He hasn't been at his best but dropping him? When the alternatives are Federici and Davies? Maybe it's time to give some support to a player who has earned it and play our part in helping him get back to his best? Dave please that shot at Charlton was straight at him I've seen Sunday league pissed up keepers make better efforts. It came from behind a defender who turned his back and it deflected slightly as well. Absolutely he should have saved it. He'd have expected to save it and was probably gutted with himself that he didn't. No arguments from me. There would have been plenty of keepers who wouldn't have saved that though.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Aug 17, 2019 8:10:31 GMT
Some people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post. More for leaning on than illumination. Or Statistics are like mini skirts. They give you good ideas but hide the most important things. I don’t have an axe to grind with Butland. Obviously, I would like us to hold on to the one remaining England international we have. But it is a rather interesting fact (and that’s what it is, not just a statistic). It is probably a mixture of bad luck, the odd defensive error from a new defence, and Jack himself. But I’m not shouting ‘Butland out!’ From the rooftops. I was just being a smart arse and showing off the fact I could quote Mark Twain🤣 Fuck knows who the mini skirt one is by it just stuck with me for some reason😉
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 17, 2019 8:12:25 GMT
It went right through him mate, come on. We aren’t where we are because of ‘luck’. I like Jones and I still think he might do well for us but making excuses doesn’t help anyone. There are plenty of keepers that wouldn't have saved that Charlton goal. We expect Jack to because hes proved how good he is. He hasn't been at his best but dropping him? When the alternatives are Federici and Davies? Maybe it's time to give some support to a player who has earned it and play our part in helping him get back to his best? I don’t think we’re quite at dropping him yet because of the dearth of alternatives, but he’s made two shockers in two games and that really can’t continue.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 17, 2019 8:18:31 GMT
That just shows how shit our luck. It won't keep happening but it doesn't help the situation. Like in the Wigan game where the players blocked a shot, and it landed in the path of another Wigan player who would have scored if it weren't for a fantastic reaction and tackle by Collins. Luck evens itself out but we could do with some just to get us going. Jack has made a couple of mistakes but he is still a top keeper. The one against Charlton he is probably getting a slightly harsh rap for, there was a player in his line of view for that one and he may have saw it late. It went right through him mate, come on. We aren’t where we are because of ‘luck’. I like Jones and I still think he might do well for us but making excuses doesn’t help anyone. Well it's not all down to bad luck, we have had our own opportunities to score and we haven't taken them. I do wear rose tinted glasses you know.
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