|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 17:33:15 GMT
Why on God's earth would you even dream of taking that kind of flight when money is no object? Even taking away the fact that he's a footballer who gets paid ridiculous amounts of money, I just cannot get my head around why you would get on an aeroplane that "looks like it's going to fall apart".
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 23, 2019 18:25:52 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 18:36:13 GMT
It just shows that you have to live life to the full, because you never know what is round the corner
You would think if you just signed a contract to join a premier league club for 15 million quid, that good times were round the corner
But you never can tell
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 23, 2019 18:38:25 GMT
It just shows that you have to live life to the full, because you never know what is round the corner You would think if you just signed a contract to join a premier league club for 15 million quid, that good times were round the corner But you never can tell So very true mate,I’m a big believer that fate plays a massive part in everyone’s life
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 19:04:14 GMT
It just shows that you have to live life to the full, because you never know what is round the corner You would think if you just signed a contract to join a premier league club for 15 million quid, that good times were round the corner But you never can tell So very true mate,I’m a big believer that fate plays a massive part in everyone’s life So am I but if I walked into an airport for a flight that had been booked for me and they said "here's your plane mate" and one of those shitty little things was sitting on the runway I'd tell them to fuck right off and walk away. I really can't believe that anybody would think getting in one of those things is a good idea, for the distance they were travelling, at night and across the English channel it's just asking for trouble.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 19:46:44 GMT
Why on God's earth would you even dream of taking that kind of flight when money is no object? Even taking away the fact that he's a footballer who gets paid ridiculous amounts of money, I just cannot get my head around why you would get on an aeroplane that "looks like it's going to fall apart". It was up in the air when he said it looks like it’s going to fall apart? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. RIP.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 20:05:28 GMT
Why on God's earth would you even dream of taking that kind of flight when money is no object? Even taking away the fact that he's a footballer who gets paid ridiculous amounts of money, I just cannot get my head around why you would get on an aeroplane that "looks like it's going to fall apart". It was up in the air when he said it looks like it’s going to fall apart? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. RIP. That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way.
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 23, 2019 20:26:36 GMT
When was this LP.........my daughter was a police officer at St Marys for 3 years 2012-2015. We visited many times to take advantage of free accommodation. Mind you the travel was extortionate around £200 for return flight from Newquay slightly less if you went from Lands End. I preferred the Scillonian ferry but even that was around £100 return and didn’t operate in winter. I was there LONG before your daughter worked there, LL. I retired in 2004 and it was probably 15 years before that when I last worked on Scilly. In my day I was able to fly direct from my base in Plymouth but they stopped that service a few years after I worked there and Plymouth Airport is now closed to commercial traffic. You are right about costs - luckily my flights and accommodation were paid for by HM Customs and Excise - as it was then called. I often stayed in Star Castle above St Mary's town, if they had a room available - very nice - much more like a holiday than work! Living in the Plymouth area I know what a short sighted decision it was to close the airport 7 years ago. It’s closed completely now, the military operate from Devonport Dockyard and HMS Raleigh in Torpoint. Problem is that the airport is mothballed but sits in Prime development area for both employment and housing. Personally think it would be foolish to get rid of it completely because the nearest airports are Exeter and Newquay.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 21:05:19 GMT
It was up in the air when he said it looks like it’s going to fall apart? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. RIP. That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. It’s only an hour or so to Nantes, I’ve flown it many times from the UK. It’s a small plane yes but 999,999 times out of a million (or even far greater odds) you’d expect no trouble. I’ve flown in much smaller single engine 2 seater plane a few times in the air cadets, not at night but up in the air for an hour at a time. I think it’s just incredibly unlucky, would I make that journey today knowing what I know now - probably not, but in his position I’d have made that journey. The many air accidents that come to mind have either been down to a suicidal pilot, terrorism, or just freak weather. Like the helicopter crash at Leicester, it just seems like a routine journey gone horribly wrong. It’s incredibly sad, but that’s life. Every time you get in a car, on a train, or even walk down the street you may not come home, I don’t think you can live life in fear because of these things.
|
|
|
Post by riproaringagain on Jan 23, 2019 21:41:22 GMT
I’ve got quite a few hours towards the private pilots licence in one very similar, they are really reliable but travelling over the channel at night in one is a different kettle of fish,there is no navigation unless the pilot has his own similar to Garmin units plus only one engine. They travel around 95 knots per hour which isn’t really quick 110mph. The pilot must of been very experienced to do the trip. Very sad all round
|
|
|
Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 23, 2019 21:50:01 GMT
It was up in the air when he said it looks like it’s going to fall apart? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. RIP. That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. Why wouldn't you trust the pilot though? He flies/flew these planes across the Atlantic. Also, the arrangements were what Sala himself wanted to do. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. From what I've seen, Sala seemed like a really genuine guy. He wanted to say goodbye to his old teammates and train with his new teammates as soon as possible.
|
|
|
Post by oatcakesteve on Jan 23, 2019 22:23:23 GMT
That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. Why wouldn't you trust the pilot though? He flies/flew these planes across the Atlantic. Also, the arrangements were what Sala himself wanted to do. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. From what I've seen, Sala seemed like a really genuine guy. He wanted to say goodbye to his old teammates and train with his new teammates as soon as possible. I bet he didn't do the Atlantic crossing at night in winter. It is most probably weather related, could be a microburst or icing on the wings. Very sad however it happened.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 22:48:14 GMT
That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. It’s only an hour or so to Nantes, I’ve flown it many times from the UK. It’s a small plane yes but 999,999 times out of a million (or even far greater odds) you’d expect no trouble. I’ve flown in much smaller single engine 2 seater plane a few times in the air cadets, not at night but up in the air for an hour at a time. I think it’s just incredibly unlucky, would I make that journey today knowing what I know now - probably not, but in his position I’d have made that journey. The many air accidents that come to mind have either been down to a suicidal pilot, terrorism, or just freak weather. Like the helicopter crash at Leicester, it just seems like a routine journey gone horribly wrong. It’s incredibly sad, but that’s life. Every time you get in a car, on a train, or even walk down the street you may not come home, I don’t think you can live life in fear because of these things. An hour or so in one of those planes? Are you sure?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 22:52:23 GMT
That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. Why wouldn't you trust the pilot though? He flies/flew these planes across the Atlantic. Also, the arrangements were what Sala himself wanted to do. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. From what I've seen, Sala seemed like a really genuine guy. He wanted to say goodbye to his old teammates and train with his new teammates as soon as possible. Perhaps it's me and my fear of flying but there isn't any way that I would be doing that journey at night in the middle of January in one of those aircraft. I just wouldn't do it. Looking at a post above from someone who flies these planes that journey would have been around 4 hours or more. Absolutely no chance would I be doing that.
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 24, 2019 7:07:31 GMT
I’ve got quite a few hours towards the private pilots licence in one very similar, they are really reliable but travelling over the channel at night in one is a different kettle of fish,there is no navigation unless the pilot has his own similar to Garmin units plus only one engine. They travel around 95 knots per hour which isn’t really quick 110mph. The pilot must of been very experienced to do the trip. Very sad all round Just a small point off subject Ripper. Knots = nautical miles per hour. So it’s "Knots" not "knots per hour". Sorry to be pedantic but as a trainee pilot you need to get terminology accurate.
|
|
|
Post by raythesailor on Jan 24, 2019 9:52:00 GMT
From a navigation point of view, assuming reasonable viz, crossing the channel in that area at 90/100 knots is not to difficult. There are major lights on the Casquets, Cap de la Haug, midway the channel light vessel, and on the UK side Portland Bill and Bery Head (which is also an aero beacon).
I have done it many times, but at about 5 knots, which can make it a long day or night whilst at that speed Alderney to Torbay about 45 mins!
If the plane has been chartered I would assume and hope that the pilot would be commercially qualified and experienced, and not just a private pilots license.
|
|
|
Post by chigstoke on Jan 24, 2019 15:32:20 GMT
A very sad update from Geurnsey Police
|
|
|
Post by Pedropotter on Jan 24, 2019 15:41:38 GMT
A very sad update from Geurnsey Police Terrible tragedy.
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Jan 24, 2019 16:27:26 GMT
I see the Sun have been their usual supportive selves.
Fucking pariah of an organisation.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Jan 24, 2019 16:32:01 GMT
That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. Why wouldn't you trust the pilot though? He flies/flew these planes across the Atlantic. Also, the arrangements were what Sala himself wanted to do. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. From what I've seen, Sala seemed like a really genuine guy. He wanted to say goodbye to his old teammates and train with his new teammates as soon as possible. Flew one of those planes across the Atlantic, did he have to carry out mid air refuelling?
|
|
|
Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 24, 2019 16:57:30 GMT
It was up in the air when he said it looks like it’s going to fall apart? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. RIP. That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way.
To be fair mate, you keep banging on about "why would anyone get into one of those planes" as if the whole general population know what are safe/dangerous planes dependent upon time, duration and condition.
Newsflash......99% of the general public wouldn't have a frigging clue! To most people, a plane is a plane unless it's a massive jumbo going on a long haul flight, because the vast majority of the public aren't interested in having any kind of specific plane knowledge....same as trains, boats etc. YOU may know it's not a safe plane to get on but i think you'll find that having that kind of knowledge puts you (and some others on this board) in a very small minority.
They'd be relying on those who sorted the flight to think of those things and act accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 17:49:20 GMT
That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way.
To be fair mate, you keep banging on about "why would anyone get into one of those planes" as if the whole general population know what are safe/dangerous planes dependent upon time, duration and condition.
Newsflash......99% of the general public wouldn't have a frigging clue! To most people, a plane is a plane unless it's a massive jumbo going on a long haul flight, because the vast majority of the public aren't interested in having any kind of specific plane knowledge....same as trains, boats etc. YOU may know it's not a safe plane to get on but i think you'll find that having that kind of knowledge puts you (and some others on this board) in a very small minority.
They'd be relying on those who sorted the flight to think of those things and act accordingly.
"Banging on"? I haven't been banging on about anything mate, just putting my personal opinion across in a couple of posts about how I wouldn't ever get on one of those planes under the circumstances that Sala was met with, and that due to my opinion I also cannot understand why anybody would want to board the type of aircraft he did the other night. My opinion is based on nothing other than my fear of flying and how unnatural an experience I find it at the best of times, never mind in one of those small single engine, two seater jobs, so I'm not really sure where you've got the assumption from that I have some sort of knowledge of plane safety that the general public won't have to be honest. Also, do you have to come across so argumentative and condescending in pretty much every post you reply too?
|
|
|
Post by alsagerstokie on Jan 24, 2019 18:18:01 GMT
I think we all agree. Especially with the money in football. That this flight should never of taken place. Christ id rather go with Ryanair than fly across the channel in Jan at night in a single engine plane. May i add i have never or will fly Ryanair.al
A relative of mine is a captain with Easyjet. Hes flown all over europe even the famous madeira landing . Basically saying hes very experianced. And he said to me the flight that night shouldnt have taken place.
|
|
|
Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 24, 2019 22:41:57 GMT
Why wouldn't you trust the pilot though? He flies/flew these planes across the Atlantic. Also, the arrangements were what Sala himself wanted to do. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. From what I've seen, Sala seemed like a really genuine guy. He wanted to say goodbye to his old teammates and train with his new teammates as soon as possible. Flew one of those planes across the Atlantic, did he have to carry out mid air refuelling? They do actually. They carry ferry tanks that work like an extension of the main fuel tank.
|
|
|
Post by oatcakesteve on Jan 24, 2019 23:52:19 GMT
That's a fair point mate, but I refer you to my second post on this matter and would you have gotten into one of those aircrafts at night for a journey of that length and over sea? In my opinion it wasn't a smart move considering all the other options available, hindsight or no hindsight you wouldn't get me into that plane in those circumstances at all. Anyway, like you say RIP to both men because regardless of what I think, it is a tragic accident and nobody deserves to go that way. To be fair mate, you keep banging on about "why would anyone get into one of those planes" as if the whole general population know what are safe/dangerous planes dependent upon time, duration and condition. Newsflash......99% of the general public wouldn't have a frigging clue! To most people, a plane is a plane unless it's a massive jumbo going on a long haul flight, because the vast majority of the public aren't interested in having any kind of specific plane knowledge....same as trains, boats etc. YOU may know it's not a safe plane to get on but i think you'll find that having that kind of knowledge puts you (and some others on this board) in a very small minority.
They'd be relying on those who sorted the flight to think of those things and act accordingly.
I'm certainly no expert but I do know more about aviation than the majority of the population, simply because planes have always interested/intrigued me from a young age. I'm guilty of being a regular viewer of Air crash Investigation too for my sins. What I do know is that there is usually no single factor to a plane crash. As I have said earlier, my personal opinion is weather first and foremost. Flight preparation and flight plan could also be factors.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Jan 25, 2019 2:08:29 GMT
RIP Mr Sala. Came back from Germany on a stormy night once in a propeller plane. That was scary enough - when i'd finished, my body ached from the tension of clenching everything. Let alone one of those things. This story, and the Leicester story, plus a friend who survived a helicopter crash in the army.... that does it. If it hasn't got 100+ seats, jet engines and air hostesses, it can piss off. I don't give a shit about stats.
|
|
|
Post by canadianmoose on Jan 25, 2019 3:12:30 GMT
I’ve got quite a few hours towards the private pilots licence in one very similar, they are really reliable but travelling over the channel at night in one is a different kettle of fish,there is no navigation unless the pilot has his own similar to Garmin units plus only one engine. They travel around 95 knots per hour which isn’t really quick 110mph. The pilot must of been very experienced to do the trip. Very sad all round Not true. Piper Malibu non turbine cruises at ~213 knots which is around 395 km/hr. It has a maximum range of 1,300 miles! Chances are this would absolutely be equipped with at least a 400 or 500 series garmin gps unit which would make navigation super reliable. Also Malibu is a 6 seater not 2 as mentioned here. Clearly from the pictures provided of the actual aircraft it was not “falling apart”. If anything it looks in great shape. For general aviation, this is an aircraft completely suitable for the trip it was making. 1000’s of similar length flights are completed by similar aircraft every week.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 25, 2019 10:00:44 GMT
From a navigation point of view, assuming reasonable viz, crossing the channel in that area at 90/100 knots is not to difficult. There are major lights on the Casquets, Cap de la Haug, midway the channel light vessel, and on the UK side Portland Bill and Bery Head (which is also an aero beacon). I have done it many times, but at about 5 knots, which can make it a long day or night whilst at that speed Alderney to Torbay about 45 mins! If the plane has been chartered I would assume and hope that the pilot would be commercially qualified and experienced, and not just a private pilots license.According to some reports this morning, the pilot was not allowed to carry paying passengers - this would suggest he did NOT have a commercial license. If true the this is very worrying. I'm not saying Cardiff didn't offer to organise his transport - they claim that they did but the offer was turned down by the player. If a pilot with ONLY a private pilot's licence was contracted to fly the player then, surely, whoever made that decision (was it player's agent?) has serious questions to answer - especially as given the player's and his employer's wealth - money should have been no object. I'm not saying a Lear Jet should have been used but something like an executive twin such as a Beechcraft and a commercial pilot should have been used. This tragic incident might well end up in a court case of some sort. I wonder if this will have a knock on effect on the future conditions in player insurance policies. You can imagine that most insurers of a multi £million player would feel that a night time flight over sea in winter as a passenger in a plane piloted by a pilot with only a private license would be a no no to comply with the terms of the insurance.
|
|
|
Post by canadianmoose on Jan 25, 2019 12:19:20 GMT
If he didn’t hold a commercial licence then he was breaking the law. Even if he did have a commercial licence the aircraft used was completely appropriate for the trip. Piper Malibu’s make this kind of journey all the time. It’s what they were built for.
What I don’t get is why they were at 5000 feet in cruise and then dropped to 2500 feet. That suggests either a mechanical issue or that the pilot was no instrument rated and was trying to stay under the weather to maintain VFR. The Malibu has a service ceiling of 25,000 feet so no reason to be down so low.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 25, 2019 12:27:35 GMT
If he didn’t hold a commercial licence then he was breaking the law. Even if he did have a commercial licence the aircraft used was completely appropriate for the trip. Piper Malibu’s make this kind of journey all the time. It’s what they were built for. What I don’t get is why they were at 5000 feet in cruise and then dropped to 2500 feet. That suggests either a mechanical issue or that the pilot was no instrument rated and was trying to stay under the weather to maintain VFR. The Malibu has a service ceiling of 25,000 feet so no reason to be down so low. Surely he would only be breaking the law if he carried a paying passenger? I have to admit that I find it difficult to believe that either the player, or someone acting on the player's behalf, DID NOT pay the pilot for the trip but it is possible, I suppose.
|
|