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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 20, 2023 17:18:51 GMT
Over the years Abbott has said things that in some cases may be considered racist to some About as many times as David lammy Ones lost the whip the others in the shadow cabinet Both are as racist as each other or not racist at all The difference lammy is a starmer lickspittle whereas Abbott holds political views that differ from the leadership It’s ultimately a purge against descent dressed up as racism I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. There is a view that all people (regardless of their race) are innately predisposed to favour their own and view people outside their own racial/ethnic group as something to be feared. The sociological/genetic explanation is that this builds social cohesion and in a pre civilised age would ensure survival in a hostile, brutal world. From this perspective racism is "natural" and needs to be recognised by each individual for what it is. The ethical challenge is to go beyond these natural inclinations. Some people don't want to, others do. The other view is that people are naturally not racist and are socialised into being racist. I'm inclined to believe the former and it's down to making an ethical choice. If Abbott was making the point that all white people are racist in the former sense then you could argue she is not making a racist statement providing she also believes non-white people are also all innately racist. If she intended to mean only white people are innately racist then yes she did make a racist statement and if she believes there is that profound racial difference I'd say she is a racist. Without the full context of what she said I can't say one way or the other. I'd also suggest people saying Abbott is racist on the basis of that out of context statement are political point scoring.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 17:33:00 GMT
I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. There is a view that all people (regardless of their race) are innately predisposed to favour their own and view people outside their own racial/ethnic group as something to be feared. The sociological/genetic explanation is that this builds social cohesion and in a pre civilised age would ensure survival in a hostile, brutal world. From this perspective racism is "natural" and needs to be recognised by each individual for what it is. The ethical challenge is to go beyond these natural inclinations. Some people don't want to, others do. The other view is that people are naturally not racist and are socialised into being racist. I'm inclined to believe the former and it's down to making an ethical choice. If Abbott was making the point that all white people are racist in the former sense then you could argue she is not making a racist statement providing she also believes non-white people are also all innately racist. If she intended to mean only white people are innately racist then yes she did make a racist statement and if she believes there is that profound racial difference I'd say she is a racist. Without the full context of what she said I can't say one way or the other. I'd also suggest people saying Abbott is racist on the basis of that out of context statement are political point scoring. Would it be ok if Nigel Farage said it in reverse?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 20, 2023 17:35:02 GMT
I'm not sure Abbotts quote of "You have to start from an understanding that all white people are racist." from 1985 can be dressed up as anything really. There is a view that all people (regardless of their race) are innately predisposed to favour their own and view people outside their own racial/ethnic group as something to be feared. The sociological/genetic explanation is that this builds social cohesion and in a pre civilised age would ensure survival in a hostile, brutal world. From this perspective racism is "natural" and needs to be recognised by each individual for what it is. The ethical challenge is to go beyond these natural inclinations. Some people don't want to, others do. The other view is that people are naturally not racist and are socialised into being racist. I'm inclined to believe the former and it's down to making an ethical choice. If Abbott was making the point that all white people are racist in the former sense then you could argue she is not making a racist statement providing she also believes non-white people are also all innately racist. If she intended to mean only white people are innately racist then yes she did make a racist statement and if she believes there is that profound racial difference I'd say she is a racist. Without the full context of what she said I can't say one way or the other. I'd also suggest people saying Abbott is racist on the basis of that out of context statement are political point scoring. Very informative, thanks. White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8994068/Diane-Abbott-White-people-love-playing-divide-and-rule.html
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 18:27:23 GMT
There is a view that all people (regardless of their race) are innately predisposed to favour their own and view people outside their own racial/ethnic group as something to be feared. The sociological/genetic explanation is that this builds social cohesion and in a pre civilised age would ensure survival in a hostile, brutal world. From this perspective racism is "natural" and needs to be recognised by each individual for what it is. The ethical challenge is to go beyond these natural inclinations. Some people don't want to, others do. The other view is that people are naturally not racist and are socialised into being racist. I'm inclined to believe the former and it's down to making an ethical choice. If Abbott was making the point that all white people are racist in the former sense then you could argue she is not making a racist statement providing she also believes non-white people are also all innately racist. If she intended to mean only white people are innately racist then yes she did make a racist statement and if she believes there is that profound racial difference I'd say she is a racist. Without the full context of what she said I can't say one way or the other. I'd also suggest people saying Abbott is racist on the basis of that out of context statement are political point scoring. Would it be ok if Nigel Farage said it in reverse? Difficult to answer without seeing the paragraph in which it was used. I don't think anyone is saying it's ok though? Do you think people hold the same views from birth till death? Do you think if a party or employer is disciplining members for racism that they should follow the same process and disciplinary procedure for every member? Do you think if Diane Abbott sang songs about gassing Jews that it would be ok?
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 18:28:08 GMT
There is a view that all people (regardless of their race) are innately predisposed to favour their own and view people outside their own racial/ethnic group as something to be feared. The sociological/genetic explanation is that this builds social cohesion and in a pre civilised age would ensure survival in a hostile, brutal world. From this perspective racism is "natural" and needs to be recognised by each individual for what it is. The ethical challenge is to go beyond these natural inclinations. Some people don't want to, others do. The other view is that people are naturally not racist and are socialised into being racist. I'm inclined to believe the former and it's down to making an ethical choice. If Abbott was making the point that all white people are racist in the former sense then you could argue she is not making a racist statement providing she also believes non-white people are also all innately racist. If she intended to mean only white people are innately racist then yes she did make a racist statement and if she believes there is that profound racial difference I'd say she is a racist. Without the full context of what she said I can't say one way or the other. I'd also suggest people saying Abbott is racist on the basis of that out of context statement are political point scoring. Very informative, thanks. White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8994068/Diane-Abbott-White-people-love-playing-divide-and-rule.htmlAside from Abbott, which other MPs of the last 20 years do you believe are racist?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 20, 2023 18:29:39 GMT
Aside from Abbott, which other MPs of the last 20 years do you believe are racist? Why?
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 18:41:08 GMT
Would it be ok if Nigel Farage said it in reverse? Difficult to answer without seeing the paragraph in which it was used. I don't think anyone is saying it's ok though? Do you think people hold the same views from birth till death? Do you think if a party or employer is disciplining members for racism that they should follow the same process and disciplinary procedure for every member? Do you think if Diane Abbott sang songs about gassing Jews that it would be ok? I think if something is OK for Abbott then it's OK for Farage. Ideally it's not OK for either. Do you think Abbott and Farage should be judged by the same standards?
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 18:57:12 GMT
Aside from Abbott, which other MPs of the last 20 years do you believe are racist? Why? Because for every quote from Diane Abbott I could throw mud back and give quotes from Boris, Nigel, Suella etc.. but throwing quotes at eachother doesn't find common ground. Just like calling Nigel a racist over a particular phrase and refusing to listen or discuss his view is also counter productive. Labelling people doesn't help us see past our differences. So I'm curious if you feel some of the other MPs accused of racism are racist or not. I can provide quotes if you'd prefer that.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 19:04:09 GMT
Difficult to answer without seeing the paragraph in which it was used. I don't think anyone is saying it's ok though? Do you think people hold the same views from birth till death? Do you think if a party or employer is disciplining members for racism that they should follow the same process and disciplinary procedure for every member? Do you think if Diane Abbott sang songs about gassing Jews that it would be ok? I think if something is OK for Abbott then it's OK for Farage. Ideally it's not OK for either. Do you think Abbott and Farage should be judged by the same standards? I most certainly do think Abbott and Farage should have the same standards applied and be treated the same. This is why I wrote "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else" in my opening sentence in the thread.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 20, 2023 19:16:17 GMT
There is a view that all people (regardless of their race) are innately predisposed to favour their own and view people outside their own racial/ethnic group as something to be feared. The sociological/genetic explanation is that this builds social cohesion and in a pre civilised age would ensure survival in a hostile, brutal world. From this perspective racism is "natural" and needs to be recognised by each individual for what it is. The ethical challenge is to go beyond these natural inclinations. Some people don't want to, others do. The other view is that people are naturally not racist and are socialised into being racist. I'm inclined to believe the former and it's down to making an ethical choice. If Abbott was making the point that all white people are racist in the former sense then you could argue she is not making a racist statement providing she also believes non-white people are also all innately racist. If she intended to mean only white people are innately racist then yes she did make a racist statement and if she believes there is that profound racial difference I'd say she is a racist. Without the full context of what she said I can't say one way or the other. I'd also suggest people saying Abbott is racist on the basis of that out of context statement are political point scoring. Would it be ok if Nigel Farage said it in reverse? Of course the same applies. Thing is I've never taken anything out of context to claim Farage of being a racist.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 19:27:25 GMT
I think if something is OK for Abbott then it's OK for Farage. Ideally it's not OK for either. Do you think Abbott and Farage should be judged by the same standards? I most certainly do think Abbott and Farage should have the same standards applied and be treated the same. This is why I wrote "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else" in my opening sentence in the thread. I'll take your word for it.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 19:29:26 GMT
I most certainly do think Abbott and Farage should have the same standards applied and be treated the same. This is why I wrote "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else" in my opening sentence in the thread. I'll take your word for it. Do you think Diane Abbott should be treated the same as other Labour MPs?
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 19:35:08 GMT
I'll take your word for it. Do you think Diane Abbott should be treated the same as other Labour MPs? I do yes, I believe everyone should be treated the same, no special privileges because someone is a minority or a majority no exceptions.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 19:48:26 GMT
Do you think Diane Abbott should be treated the same as other Labour MPs? I do yes, I believe everyone should be treated the same, no special privileges because someone is a minority or a majority no exceptions. I'll take your word for it.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 19:50:16 GMT
I do yes, I believe everyone should be treated the same, no special privileges because someone is a minority or a majority no exceptions. I'll take your word for it. I'll take your word for it that you'll take my word for it 😉
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 19:55:01 GMT
I'll take your word for it. I'll take your word for it that you'll take my word for it 😉 You don't need to take it, I'll give you it.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 20, 2023 20:00:15 GMT
Because for every quote from Diane Abbott I could throw mud back and give quotes from Boris, Nigel, Suella etc.. but throwing quotes at eachother doesn't find common ground. Just like calling Nigel a racist over a particular phrase and refusing to listen or discuss his view is also counter productive. Labelling people doesn't help us see past our differences. So I'm curious if you feel some of the other MPs accused of racism are racist or not. I can provide quotes if you'd prefer that. I'm not throwing mud, I'm providing relevant quotes about the subject matter. It is clear as I've stated above that she is a political inconvenience to Starmer. I consider my input to of more merit than 'I fucking hate Tories'
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 20, 2023 20:11:40 GMT
I'll take your word for it that you'll take my word for it 😉 You don't need to take it, I'll give you it. You have my permission to give it to me.
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Post by gawa on Sept 20, 2023 20:14:07 GMT
Because for every quote from Diane Abbott I could throw mud back and give quotes from Boris, Nigel, Suella etc.. but throwing quotes at eachother doesn't find common ground. Just like calling Nigel a racist over a particular phrase and refusing to listen or discuss his view is also counter productive. Labelling people doesn't help us see past our differences. So I'm curious if you feel some of the other MPs accused of racism are racist or not. I can provide quotes if you'd prefer that. I'm not throwing mud, I'm providing relevant quotes about the subject matter. It is clear as I've stated above that she is a political inconvenience to Starmer. I consider my input to of more merit than 'I fucking hate Tories' “No doubt the AK47s will fall silent, and the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down in his big white British taxpayer-funded bird. It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies.” Pickaninny is a pidgin word for a small child, possibly derived from the Portuguese pequenino. It has been used as a racial slur for African American children and a pejorative term for Aboriginal children of the Americas, Australia, and New Zealand
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 21, 2023 7:26:07 GMT
I most certainly do think Abbott and Farage should have the same standards applied and be treated the same. This is why I wrote "Should be treated in the same way as anyone else" in my opening sentence in the thread. I'll take your word for it. So it is reasonable to assume your sarcastic remark implies that you believe the poster is lying when they say they believe in treating all people equally. And presumably that's because you don't and are quite happy to make selective comments to support your political prejudices and believe everyone does the same? Or are you the only one who is unbiased?
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 7:51:34 GMT
I'll take your word for it. So it is reasonable to assume your sarcastic remark implies that you believe the poster is lying when they say they believe in treating all people equally. And presumably that's because you don't and are quite happy to make selective comments to support your political prejudices and believe everyone does the same? Or are you the only one who is unbiased? What makes you assume I was being sarcastic. What is it that makes you make things up in your head?
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Post by foster on Sept 21, 2023 11:42:08 GMT
I'll take your word for it that you'll take my word for it 😉 You don't need to take it, I'll give you it. Good thing I know what you two are talking about or this could come across quite dodgy.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 12:16:57 GMT
You don't need to take it, I'll give you it. Good thing I know what you two are talking about or this could come across quite dodgy. 🤣
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2023 15:17:07 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 23, 2023 15:31:10 GMT
Isn’t that really old? Don’t tell me she’s done it again?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2023 15:31:53 GMT
Isn’t that really old? Don’t tell me she’s done it again? Not sure mate
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Post by flea79 on Sept 23, 2023 16:17:55 GMT
Isn’t that really old? Don’t tell me she’s done it again? Not sure mate Think it is an old clip and just used for comedic effect on a nothing news outlet
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 23, 2023 16:56:01 GMT
That was just before she had to take a period of time off for ill health for balance.
Truth is she probably should have stood down permanently at that point at least from any prominent roles, the fact of the matter is though that she's been a fantastic constituent MP and those who live in Hackney will be sorry to see her go.......
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Post by gawa on Sept 23, 2023 17:08:42 GMT
How long does a week last in gb news? If its 6 years long then there's quite a few planks I'd put above her, even a few lettuces too 🤣
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 23, 2023 17:15:03 GMT
How long does a week last in gb news? If its 6 years long then there's quite a few planks I'd put above her, even a few lettuces too 🤣 I dunno mate she'd take some beating even over a 20 year period. Her racism and thicko gaffs are legendary 😂
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